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Big T
Jan 3rd 2007, 02:21 AM
Sorry, but this guy is a charlatan <sp> and a total false prophet. No, on second thoought, I'm not sorry. I shouldn't be sorry for it's not my fault that he's a fraud.

He has recently made more "predictions" for 2007, including a terrorist attack on America that will kill millions. He claims that God told him these things will happen. Yest when he "prophesizes" he never says "Thus says the Lord" or anything to that effect. Funny that the biblical predictions have been right 100% of the time, yet Pat Robertson... Well, I'll let him speak for himself.



"I have a relatively good track record," he said. "Sometimes I miss."



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240841,00.html

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:53 AM
Then we are secure - there will not be a terrorist attack. He said 2006 would be the worst year ever for the US and hurricanes...maybe he was referring to the Miami Hurricanes, because the US coast did not get hit by a major hurricane all year. :)

Slug1
Jan 3rd 2007, 04:12 AM
To me he's just shooting in the dark with a sawed off scatter gun. He'll have a few hit's because if he throws out enough "guesstimations" as statistics go something will come true :rolleyes:

Big T
Jan 3rd 2007, 04:27 AM
And vague too. I predict that a bad thing will happen to someone somewhere sometime, maybe.

godsgirl
Jan 3rd 2007, 02:27 PM
Are you doing for the Lord what Pat Robertson has done? Thinking you're hearing from God-and being mistaken is not sinful. Now if he did say, "thus says the Lord" then you'ld have a point.

BCF
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:15 PM
And vague too. I predict that a bad thing will happen to someone somewhere sometime, maybe.


BigT, you forgot to say that God told you about your prediction, so your prediction can't be true.:D

EarlyCall
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:18 PM
What would be the difference I wonder in knowing what Pat has said will happen and not knowing it? Got me.

BCF
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:29 PM
Are you doing for the Lord what Pat Robertson has done? Thinking you're hearing from God-and being mistaken is not sinful. Now if he did say, "thus says the Lord" then you'ld have a point.

No, I can't say that I have done for the Lord what Pat Robertson has done for the Lord, but then again I don't know if I would ever won't to. All I ever hear Pat Robertson doing is complaining about people, and what they are doing. Last time I looked in the scripture of what Jesus told us to do as disciples of His, was to go out and teach His Word to the World. I do not see anywhere in scripture where Jesus told us to go out and complain to the World of the things that they are doing.

I don't think that God's plan for us to go out and give the good news of the Gospel to the lost, included complaining about why the lost were doing what they were doing. Until Mr. Robertson starts showing some Love in the fruit which he bares, according to what Our Lord tells us in His Word Mr. Robertson is nothing but a clanging cymbal. And if Mr. Robertson is a clanging cymbal to Our Lord, then whatever it is that he thinks he is doing for Our Lord is done in vain.

threebigrocks
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:35 PM
It's self serving on Pat Robinson's part. Had their been a major hurricaine, he'd take the credit for saying so. It would turn into he's right, and many others were wrong because he does leave out 'thus saith the Lord' stuff. Turns into 'thus saith Pat'. It keeps people hanging on his words, and not The Word.

BCF
Jan 3rd 2007, 03:46 PM
It's self serving on Pat Robinson's part. Had their been a major hurricaine, he'd take the credit for saying so. It would turn into he's right, and many others were wrong because he does leave out 'thus saith the Lord' stuff. Turns into 'thus saith Pat'. It keeps people hanging on his words, and not The Word.


Your right. The more things that he can say he predicted happened, the more viewers he gets. And the more viewers he gets, the higher his ratings go. And the higher his ratings go the more money he can tell people to send him, and the richer he becomes. If you ask me it's all about business with him. He gets no pleasure out of doing anything for Our Lord.

I know that sounds kind of harsh, but I call them the way I see them. When we read the scripture Jesus did the same thing.

godsgirl
Jan 3rd 2007, 05:26 PM
I think you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. What do you think Gods opinion is of the things you've said about one of His children? You've made yourself judge and jury.

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 05:49 PM
I think you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. What do you think Gods opinion is of the things you've said about one of His children? You've made yourself judge and jury.


Read Deuteronomy 18 (I believe this is the passage) that deals with false prophets. Even Pat admits to getting it wrong a few times. The problem with Pat is he intentionally leaves it vague as if it came from God or not that way if it's wrong, he can say, "Well, I guess I misunderstood what God was saying."

Centurionoflight
Jan 3rd 2007, 06:11 PM
From the story:


Robertson said God told him during a recent prayer retreat that major cities and possibly millions of people will be affected by the attack, which should take place sometime after September.

"I put these things out with humility," he said.

Robertson said God also told him that the U.S. only feigns friendship with Israel and that U.S. policies are pushing Israel toward "national suicide."

Pat is human, even worse he sees him self as a evengelist type.
So put him before a group of people or a camera; he will try to impress them.

I think he should stop with the "God told him" stuff and focus more on;

His view of current events as seen thru what he has learned thru scripture leads him to the conclusions he is saying.
Terrorist attacks; Will occur again {Especally in light of how we are doing politically correct based security}

Israel; Jews are under attack by forces of satan; the further Christians stray from God and into "funday" legalism. The closer we move to pushing away Isreal as a friend and ally.
He also should not put in exact dates, that frankly is grand standing.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:01 PM
Should Pat Robertson be spouting off so much about this stuff when it's not coming true? Probably not.

However, I think a good portion on this site really go overboard with the false prophet nonsense. He has never claimed to be a prophet of God that I know of, and he's never guaranteed anything that I know of either. Some people on this site really have no clue what the true biblical character of a false prophet is. The man is trying to step out in faith. He's obviously not doing it correctly in some areas, but at least he's attempting to step out in faith. That is more than you can say for a good portion of today's church.

Today's church has replaced discernment of spirits with fear and unbelief. We are calling every misguided christian on the planet false prophets simply because of fear of the supernatural and the misguided christians misuse of it, and the ones who are really putting forth the bad fruit are glorified as God's great preachers by the masses. If there ever was a great apostasy from the true faith . . . it is happening now, and it isn't from people like Robertson. Is he incorrect and misguided in some areas . . . sure!

But you know what? It's time to step down off the self-righteous high-horse because I guarantee that everyone on this site has some areas in their Christian walk that is misguided as well.

Big T
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:06 PM
BigT, you forgot to say that God told you about your prediction, so your prediction can't be true.:DI left that out on purpose. That way I don't have to answer for that! I have enough things on my plate, from the past. LOL!!!!!

threebigrocks
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:08 PM
I think you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. What do you think Gods opinion is of the things you've said about one of His children? You've made yourself judge and jury.

We will be known by our fruits, and we are told to beware of false prophets. Rotten fruit and unscriptural teaching and motivation will draw us away from Christ and into satan's grasp. We are to protect our minds and not let it be drawn away.

We are indeed allowed to call a spade a spade, if it is indeed a spade. That is scriptural. Should we still be concerned for Pat Robinson's soul as well as those around uss? Yes. But, we don't have to embrace nor accept wrong teaching, weather it comes from Pat Robinson or Joe Smith. We ought to point out the hypocracy so that neither us or anyone else fall into the same trap.

Only God knows for certan if Pat Robertson is truly saved. I will not comdemn but I will steer clear and not cause another to stumble by saying "Pat Robinson is okay, he's a child of God" because we don't know that he is. We doubt, because as I said, our fruits show what is in our hearts.

There may be meat about Robinson's teachings, but he sure doesn't make it obvious nor make certain that his spiritual strengths show through. He shows a lot of bones, which we are to spit out.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:15 PM
We will be known by our fruits, and we are told to beware of false prophets. Rotten fruit and unscriptural teaching and motivation will draw us away from Christ and into satan's grasp. We are to protect our minds and not let it be drawn away.

We are indeed allowed to call a spade a spade, if it is indeed a spade. That is scriptural. Should we still be concerned for Pat Robinson's soul as well as those around uss? Yes. But, we don't have to embrace nor accept wrong teaching, weather it comes from Pat Robinson or Joe Smith. We ought to point out the hypocracy so that neither us or anyone else fall into the same trap.

Only God knows for certan if Pat Robertson is truly saved. I will not comdemn but I will steer clear and not cause another to stumble by saying "Pat Robinson is okay, he's a child of God" because we don't know that he is. We doubt, because as I said, our fruits show what is in our hearts.

There may be meat about Robinson's teachings, but he sure doesn't make it obvious nor make certain that his spiritual strengths show through. He shows a lot of bones, which we are to spit out.

And what does his fruit show? Well, let's see . . .

He's made repeated efforts that I've seen to lead others to Christ, which is not a quality a false prophet will possess.

He's preached from the word of God on numerous occasions that I've seen without adding to scripture. This is not a quality of a false prophet.

I've never seen him teach things that appeal to the flesh, which is a quality of a false prophet.

I've never seen him deny the Lord, which is definitely a quality of a false prophet.

Again, Robertson doesn't meet any of these qualities, so how again is he a false prophet like some on here are trying to claim? His fruit in most areas I've seen are not indicative of someone who is a false teacher/prophet. Is he misguided perhaps? I would say so.

threebigrocks
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:20 PM
I said that he may have meat, but the little I've seen of Pat Robertson on several occations is enough to make me not have any interest in him. I've seen mostly bones.

Why would he let the predictions he has made, led everyone to believe that God gave him a revelation and then have them not be true tarnish the good he does do? That I most definately don't understand.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:33 PM
I said that he may have meat, but the little I've seen of Pat Robertson on several occations is enough to make me not have any interest in him. I've seen mostly bones.

Now this I really can't argue with. If you don't agree or like his teachings that is one thing. However, some of these people coming out and calling him a false prophet are going way overboard. You might as well come right out and say he's going to hell. I haven't seen enough from the man to say such a thing about him. However, what I have seen from him isn't biblically defined as a false prophet.

threebigrocks
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:35 PM
I didn't like him because of his predictions and ego. It wasn't personal preference of his preaching style or anything.

If God is infalliable, and God gave him these words of prophecy, then why didn't they come to be?

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 07:45 PM
If God is infalliable, and God gave him these words of prophecy, then why didn't they come to be?

Obviously God didn't give him those words. However, there could be other reasons for this besides "he's a false prophet".

I will simply have to assume he got his "words" from the flesh. It is possible to think you've gotten something from God in prayer when in reality you weren't ever in the spirit to begin with. We are to test the spirits. I don't believe his words lined up with God's Word or God's character. His words seem more like the prophecies of the Old Testament where the prophet would receive revelation about a coming disaster because of the disobedience to God's law and would warn God's people to repent. However, God isn't pouring out His wrath right now, and the work of a prophet isn't entirely the same today as it was then.

Many Christians fail to realize that the flesh influences us sometimes. Regardless of your calling or relationship with the Lord, you are going to being influenced by your flesh at some point in time.

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 08:01 PM
He has made predictions and said they came from the Lord. These predictions have subsequently been false and provably untrue. According to Deuteronomy, he is a false prophet.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 08:29 PM
He has made predictions and said they came from the Lord. These predictions have subsequently been false and provably untrue. According to Deuteronomy, he is a false prophet.

From what I've seen he's stated something like "I feel like the Lord has told me that such and such will happen sometime soon".

What he has not done is say something like, "You all have sinned against the Lord and now you are about to be judged! Thus sayeth the Lord, you have offered up sacrifices to false idols and now the Lord will rain fire down from heaven to consume thee!"

The fact of the matter is that he has confessed that Jesus Christ is his Lord and the bible teaches us that a false prophet will not do that.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 08:37 PM
He has made predictions and said they came from the Lord. These predictions have subsequently been false and provably untrue. According to Deuteronomy, he is a false prophet.

I also would like to point something out to you about Deuteronomy 18 . . .



Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.


I want you to notice that this passage does not call the person a "false prophet". However, it clearly states that this prophet can speak things not from the Lord. Why? Because even prophets can be subject to the flesh at times. A prophet is not somehow perfect or infallible.

threebigrocks
Jan 3rd 2007, 08:49 PM
But it does say that he may be speaking for others gods.

That's enough to say one is not of the one, true God.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 08:56 PM
But it does say that he may be speaking for others gods.

That's enough to say one is not of the one, true God.

It also indicates that this prophet has heard from the true God, but he has acted presumptuously on what he has heard. In other words, he heard from God, but he didn't wait for direction from the Lord on how to apply this word. People do this all the time and it doesn't make them a false prophet. It makes them human and fallible.

Jael
Jan 3rd 2007, 09:19 PM
So, I'm just trying to get some clarity here, not argue with anyone's opinion of a true or false prophet. Just because someone has a genuine gift of prophecy and can hear from the Lord, they are not a false prophet when they say He told them something and He really didn't? What do they qualify as, in that case? It seems that if they consistently do this (and I'm talking about someone who is supposedly mature in the gift, not learning how to distinguish the Lord's voice), it would be better if they didn't prophesy at all. According to Jeremiah 23, God doesn't look on this lightly...He says it makes the people worthless and they shouldn't listen to such prophets.

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 10:09 PM
I also would like to point something out to you about Deuteronomy 18 . . .



I want you to notice that this passage does not call the person a "false prophet". However, it clearly states that this prophet can speak things not from the Lord. Why? Because even prophets can be subject to the flesh at times. A prophet is not somehow perfect or infallible.


Please tell me you are not serious. It states that the "prophet" is to be put to death. If this does not indicate a false prophet then I do not know what does. I think you pushing scripture aside in order to support a false prophet.

Pat Robertson is by far a false prophet, having had almost all of his prophecies proven false. If we let him by, then we must let Joseph Smith by on his false prophecies as well.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 10:24 PM
Please tell me you are not serious. It states that the "prophet" is to be put to death. If this does not indicate a false prophet then I do not know what does. I think you pushing scripture aside in order to support a false prophet.

Pat Robertson is by far a false prophet, having had almost all of his prophecies proven false. If we let him by, then we must let Joseph Smith by on his false prophecies as well.

If it were referring to a false prophet, it would say false prophet just like it does elsewhere in scripture. In addition, a false prophet does not hear anything from the Lord, but this passage of scripture clearly says that this prophet is hearing something from the Lord, he's just not letting the Lord lead him on how to use that word. You are the one twisting scripture . . . not I. It doesn't call the person a false prophet, and it is saying that he hears from the Lord. There are no false prophets that really hear from the living God.

In addition, if you're now living by the standards presented in Deuteronomy, I guess it's time for you to grab your finest stones and start hurling them at Mr. Robertson.

VerticalReality
Jan 3rd 2007, 10:30 PM
So, I'm just trying to get some clarity here, not argue with anyone's opinion of a true or false prophet. Just because someone has a genuine gift of prophecy and can hear from the Lord, they are not a false prophet when they say He told them something and He really didn't? What do they qualify as, in that case? It seems that if they consistently do this (and I'm talking about someone who is supposedly mature in the gift, not learning how to distinguish the Lord's voice), it would be better if they didn't prophesy at all. According to Jeremiah 23, God doesn't look on this lightly...He says it makes the people worthless and they shouldn't listen to such prophets.

The easiest way to spot a false prophet is simply by their fruit. The problem is, many people can't even tell what the fruit is. Throughout the bible it clearly defines what a false prophet will do. A false prophet will try to lead people away from God. A false prophet will deny the Lord Jesus Christ. A false prophet will promote and preach things that appeal to the flesh. A false prophet will introduce false doctrine and heresies to try and replace the true word of God. Now tell me, has Robertson said or done anything that would fit any of those descriptions?

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 11:14 PM
If it were referring to a false prophet, it would say false prophet just like it does elsewhere in scripture. In addition, a false prophet does not hear anything from the Lord, but this passage of scripture clearly says that this prophet is hearing something from the Lord, he's just not letting the Lord lead him on how to use that word. You are the one twisting scripture . . . not I. It doesn't call the person a false prophet, and it is saying that he hears from the Lord. There are no false prophets that really hear from the living God.

In addition, if you're now living by the standards presented in Deuteronomy, I guess it's time for you to grab your finest stones and start hurling them at Mr. Robertson.

Where in scripture does it say a false prophet doesn't hear anything from the Lord?

Again, how is Joseph Smith not a false prophet under your view of scripture?

Seeker of truth
Jan 3rd 2007, 11:19 PM
I just love it when someone comes into these threads and shames everyone. A false prophet is being spoken out against and those speaking out aganst him are being shamed for it.

Anyone else see the irony?

Jael
Jan 3rd 2007, 11:26 PM
The easiest way to spot a false prophet is simply by their fruit. The problem is, many people can't even tell what the fruit is. Throughout the bible it clearly defines what a false prophet will do. A false prophet will try to lead people away from God. A false prophet will deny the Lord Jesus Christ. A false prophet will promote and preach things that appeal to the flesh. A false prophet will introduce false doctrine and heresies to try and replace the true word of God. Now tell me, has Robertson said or done anything that would fit any of those descriptions?

I never said he had. I was just wondering what to call someone who is not by your definition a "false prophet", yet who claims to have heard from God when in fact he hasn't. Surely not a true prophet.:dunno:

graceful bliss
Jan 3rd 2007, 11:29 PM
The Bible is so serious on the matter of someone who says, "The Lord has says this will occur" and then this event never occurring it calls for his death. If this isn't a "false prophet," then why is the Bible so serious on this commandment?

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 12:16 AM
Where in scripture does it say a false prophet doesn't hear anything from the Lord?

Again, how is Joseph Smith not a false prophet under your view of scripture?

Joseph Smith is a false prophet. He's adding things to scripture. He's leading people away from the gospel. That fits the descriptions I listed. You see? Pretty simple really.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 12:17 AM
I just love it when someone comes into these threads and shames everyone. A false prophet is being spoken out against and those speaking out aganst him are being shamed for it.

Anyone else see the irony?

Absolutely! If you aren't scripturally correct . . . I'm going to call you on it, and for you folks that are on a headhunting trip to try and slander and accuse anybody you can without biblical support . . . you need correction.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 12:18 AM
I never said he had. I was just wondering what to call someone who is not by your definition a "false prophet", yet who claims to have heard from God when in fact he hasn't. Surely not a true prophet.:dunno:

Robertson, as far as I know, has never claimed to be a prophet.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 12:18 AM
Joseph Smith is a false prophet. He's adding things to scripture. He's leading people away from the gospel. That fits the descriptions I listed. You see? Pretty simple really.

The problem is you have yet to provide a biblical backing for this list that you provide. Others, however, have given ample evidence that Pat Robertson, Biblically, is a false prophet.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 12:20 AM
The Bible is so serious on the matter of someone who says, "The Lord has says this will occur" and then this event never occurring it calls for his death. If this isn't a "false prophet," then why is the Bible so serious on this commandment?

Show us some scripture. You've been shown to be off base on your Deuteronomy interpretation. What else do you have. False prophets throughout scripture were trying to lead people away from the Lord. Show me where Robertson has done such a thing. Again, I don't agree with the things he's saying, but he still doesn't fit the scriptural definition of a false prophet. He confessed the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior, and does all he can to get the gospel out to people. A false prophet, according to scripture, is not going to do that. You can call him confused. You can call him out of line. You can rebuke him for his actions. However, you can't biblically define him as a false prophet.

Big T
Jan 4th 2007, 12:21 AM
Are you doing for the Lord what Pat Robertson has done? Thinking you're hearing from God-and being mistaken is not sinful. Now if he did say, "thus says the Lord" then you'ld have a point.Yes, in fact I'm probably doing more.


I think you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. What do you think Gods opinion is of the things you've said about one of His children? You've made yourself judge and jury.Nope, I'm not ashamed whatsoever. I'm pointing out false prophets and those that Jesus turned the tables over on. I have neither judged nor convicted him. I have merely pointed out his lies and wrongdoings. Are we not to beware of those that are merely tickling our ears and of false prophets?

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 12:22 AM
The problem is you have yet to provide a biblical backing for this list that you provide. Others, however, have given ample evidence that Pat Robertson, Biblically, is a false prophet.

Seriously, do I need to go throughout the entire new testament for you and list all the qualifications of a false prophet? Ok, fine. I'll be back in about a hour or so and I'll spell out for scripturally everything that is listed about a false prophet.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 12:25 AM
Show us some scripture. You've been shown to be off base on your Deuteronomy interpretation. What else do you have. False prophets throughout scripture were trying to lead people away from the Lord. Show me where Robertson has done such a thing. Again, I don't agree with the things he's saying, but he still doesn't fit the scriptural definition of a false prophet. He confessed the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior, and does all he can to get the gospel out to people. A false prophet, according to scripture, is not going to do that. You can call him confused. You can call him out of line. You can rebuke him for his actions. However, you can't biblically define him as a false prophet.

Are you Paul Tillich? He gave a prophecy, it was false...he is therefore a false prophet. Furthermore, his actions lead people away from the Lord because of the prophecies being continually false. He is, Biblically, a false prophet.

Big T
Jan 4th 2007, 12:26 AM
He's made repeated efforts that I've seen to lead others to Christ, which is not a quality a false prophet will possess.He has also caused many more to turn away from the Lord by his actions, lies and greed.



He's preached from the word of God on numerous occasions that I've seen without adding to scripture. This is not a quality of a false prophet.
So did Satan.

I've never seen him teach things that appeal to the flesh, which is a quality of a false prophet.It is? Can you provide scripture for that.



I've never seen him deny the Lord, which is definitely a quality of a false prophet.
His lying about the Lord telling him these things is denying the Lord. In fact, it is calling God a liar.

Again, Robertson doesn't meet any of these qualities, I think I've shown otherwise.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 12:26 AM
Seriously, do I need to go throughout the entire new testament for you and list all the qualifications of a false prophet? Ok, fine. I'll be back in about a hour or so and I'll spell out for scripturally everything that is listed about a false prophet.

Please do, because your definition of a false prophet contradicts what most scholars and commenators have come to accept.

Big T
Jan 4th 2007, 12:27 AM
Robertson, as far as I know, has never claimed to be a prophet.But he claims to prophesize, therefore he claims to be one.

Big T
Jan 4th 2007, 12:30 AM
A false prophet is merely someone that claims to prophesize in the Lords name, when in fact they don't.

He leads people away from God, by his lies. Has he lead people to God, I don't know. But I do know that it was him and his ilk, that kept me from wanting to be a Christian.

Triquetra
Jan 4th 2007, 01:00 AM
Are you doing for the Lord what Pat Robertson has done? Thinking you're hearing from God-and being mistaken is not sinful. Now if he did say, "thus says the Lord" then you'ld have a point.

That's not a fair question. We all have our daily jobs. We may or may not be in constant contact with people. Like it or not, Pat Robertson gets paid to bring people to the Lord. If he quits bringing people to the Lord and filling the seats in his studio, he won't continue to get his paycheck. Most of us have to find the time in our busy daily lives, between work, school, family, etc. to bring a person to the Lord. Most of the time it consists of an invitation to our particular church.

Does God favor Pat anymore than anyone else?

godsgirl
Jan 4th 2007, 02:59 AM
The bottom line is that many of you have placed yourselves high above God. Pat Roberston is human-he can make mistakes-but that does NOT make him a false prophet. No wonder most of you have never heard the voice of God. I do not know if Pat has truely heard from
God in this instance, but I do know that bad things are coming to our world-it's in the book. Those of you out gathering fine stones to throw? Have YOU ever heard from God? Does He speak to you? Pat Robertson does hear from God-and so would the rest of us if we were to listen. Too many of you-are so concerned with calling someone else worthy of stoning that you can't see the log in your own eyes.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 03:02 AM
The bottom line is that many of you have placed yourselves high above God. Pat Roberston is human-he can make mistakes-but that does NOT make him a false prophet. No wonder most of you have never heard the voice of God. I do not know if Pat has truely heard from
God in this instance, but I do know that bad things are coming to our nation-it's in the book. Those of you out gathering fine stones to throw? Have YOU ever heard from God? Does He speak to you? Pat Robertson does hear from God-and so would the rest of us if we were to listen. Too many of you-are so concerned with calling someone else worthy of stoning that you can't see the log in your own eyes.

If Pat hears from God, then one of them needs to change communication services because he (Pat) seems to be quite wrong in he predicts.

I have heard from God on matters, and amazingly, everytime I am sure I have heard from God were also the times where I was 100% accurate in whatever I saw or predicted would occur. Pat Robertson, as we have all seen, is most often wrong in his predictions.

threebigrocks
Jan 4th 2007, 03:53 AM
The bottom line is that many of you have placed yourselves high above God. Pat Roberston is human-he can make mistakes-but that does NOT make him a false prophet. No wonder most of you have never heard the voice of God. I do not know if Pat has truely heard from
God in this instance, but I do know that bad things are coming to our world-it's in the book. Those of you out gathering fine stones to throw? Have YOU ever heard from God? Does He speak to you? Pat Robertson does hear from God-and so would the rest of us if we were to listen. Too many of you-are so concerned with calling someone else worthy of stoning that you can't see the log in your own eyes.


Wow.


We are not passing judgement on Pat, that is God's work. But we can point out what scripture has warned us about. If it weren't for us to discern, or within our ability to discern, the weight to figure out who is false or what doctrine is wrong is on us. We are very capable of doing so.

And, if I can help my brothers and sisters by sharing what I've seen and heard and what my discernment has spoken to my concience through the Spirit. That's how that works. I will use what God has given me from the day I became a believer to mark my narrow path. Pat Robertson isn't even on the map.

CML
Jan 4th 2007, 04:05 AM
I just love it when someone comes into these threads and shames everyone. A false prophet is being spoken out against and those speaking out aganst him are being shamed for it.

Anyone else see the irony?


HA!

I have some leftover bandages from the "Holy Laughter" thread if anyone needs any.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 04:14 AM
But he claims to prophesize, therefore he claims to be one.

Wrong. Prophesying is not the same as holding the office of prophet. Any Christian can have the gift of prophecy and not hold the office of prophet.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 04:15 AM
Wrong. Prophesying is not the same as holding the office of prophet. Any Christian can have the gift of prophecy and not hold the office of prophet.


Again, where in the Bible are you getting these distinctions?

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 04:16 AM
Again, where in the Bible are you getting these distinctions?

Give me a second, trigger. I just got back, and I'm looking all the passages up for you now.

the J Man
Jan 4th 2007, 04:31 AM
Sorry, but this guy is a charlatan <sp> and a total false prophet. No, on second thoought, I'm not sorry. I shouldn't be sorry for it's not my fault that he's a fraud.

He has recently made more "predictions" for 2007, including a terrorist attack on America that will kill millions. He claims that God told him these things will happen. Yest when he "prophesizes" he never says "Thus says the Lord" or anything to that effect. Funny that the biblical predictions have been right 100% of the time, yet Pat Robertson... Well, I'll let him speak for himself.




Why do you assume that is false Todd? Don't know about millions, but the events of 9/11 came unexpected. There has been other terrorist bombimgs or attempted bombings happening and we all know that there are people who would love to do such a thing. I would never write that off. Instead of calling someone a fraud for saying that, let's just wait the year our and see what happens. Facts will speak for itself. We just entered 2007, and people already asume that this is false?

the J Man
Jan 4th 2007, 04:44 AM
Prophesying is not the same as holding the office of prophet. Any Christian can have the gift of prophecy and not hold the office of prophet.

Your absolutely right. Beinf a prophet is one of the five fold ministry gifts in Ephesians4:11, as prophecy is a gift of the Spirit mentioned in 1st Corinthians12:4-11. The Lord can give someone a prophetic word for someone or concerning the church, but that does not mean that are someone whi is walking in the office. Just like "a teacher" is a five fold ministry gift, but that doesn't mean you have to walk in that office in orer to teach anything of the Word to someone.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 04:44 AM
Matthew 7:15:20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


This passage clearly says that a false prophet is incapable of producing good fruit. Robertson, many would say, has produced a lot of good fruit. Many souls have been brought to Christ through his ministries. That's some of the best fruit you can have. Nobody knows of any bad fruit whatsoever that has come from him other than being incorrect on some things he states he got in prayer.



Matthew 24:23-25
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.


As this states, false prophets and false christs will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive the elect. I see no great signs and wonders coming from Robertson that he is using trying to deceive the elect.



Mark 13:21-22
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.


This is the same account in Mark 13 as in Matthew 24. It does not fit what Robertson is doing or has ever done that I've heard of.



Acts 13:6-8
Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.


As you can see, this false prophet attempted to prevent the proconsul from hearing the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and actually attempted to turn him away from the faith. Robertson has never attempted to turn people away from the gospel or keep them from knowing Jesus Christ that I've ever seen. As a matter of fact, he's preached the gospel for a good portion of his life and has made many efforts to get people to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. False prophets in scripture never made these sorts of efforts. In fact, as the sorcerer shows, they attempted to keep people from knowing the Lord.



2 Peter 2:1-2
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.


This states that false prophets will teach doctrines that are in disagreement with scripture, and they will even deny Jesus Christ as well. They will blasheme the Lord and will lead others to do the same. I've never seen Robertson do this. Perhaps someone can provide evidence that he has.



1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.


This clearly states that false prophets will not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. They will speak as those who are of this world and their words will appeal to that of the world. Robertson, on the other hand, has confessed MANY MANY times that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. So, how does the false prophet label apply to Robertson? Scripture refutes this clearly.



2 Peter 2:18
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.


Peter is writing about false teachers here and states that they will preach to allure people through the flesh. I don't know of any occasion Robertson has done this. As a matter of fact, I'm of the opinion that on some occasions he's gone a little overboard in griping to people about their sin. Doesn't sound like a false prophet or false teacher to me.

I mean, the verses are quite numerous, and the fact of the matter is that Pat Robertson fits not a single one of them. He may be confused. He may be wrong in speaking the things he is. However, nothing he has done fits the description that scripture gives for a false prophet.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 05:06 AM
This passage clearly says that a false prophet is incapable of producing good fruit. Robertson, many would say, has produced a lot of good fruit. Many souls have been brought to Christ through his ministries. That's some of the best fruit you can have. Nobody knows of any bad fruit whatsoever that has come from him other than being incorrect on some things he states he got in prayer.



As this states, false prophets and false christs will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive the elect. I see no great signs and wonders coming from Robertson that he is using trying to deceive the elect.



This is the same account in Mark 13 as in Matthew 24. It does not fit what Robertson is doing or has ever done that I've heard of.



As you can see, this false prophet attempted to prevent the proconsul from hearing the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and actually attempted to turn him away from the faith. Robertson has never attempted to turn people away from the gospel or keep them from knowing Jesus Christ that I've ever seen. As a matter of fact, he's preached the gospel for a good portion of his life and has made many efforts to get people to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. False prophets in scripture never made these sorts of efforts. In fact, as the sorcerer shows, they attempted to keep people from knowing the Lord.



This states that false prophets will teach doctrines that are in disagreement with scripture, and they will even deny Jesus Christ as well. They will blasheme the Lord and will lead others to do the same. I've never seen Robertson do this. Perhaps someone can provide evidence that he has.



This clearly states that false prophets will not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. They will speak as those who are of this world and their words will appeal to that of the world. Robertson, on the other hand, has confessed MANY MANY times that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. So, how does the false prophet label apply to Robertson? Scripture refutes this clearly.



Peter is writing about false teachers here and states that they will preach to allure people through the flesh. I don't know of any occasion Robertson has done this. As a matter of fact, I'm of the opinion that on some occasions he's gone a little overboard in griping to people about thier sin. Doesn't sound like a false prophet or false teacher to me.

I mean, the verses are quite numerous, and the fact of the matter is that Pat Robertson fits not a single one of them. He may be confused. He may be wrong in speaking the things he is. However, nothing he has done fits the description that scripture gives for a false prophet.


These passages speak of a specific type of false prophet, or certain characteristics of a false prophet. For instance, we can all agree that David Koresh was a false prophet - yet even he lacks certain characteristics offerred in these passages. You state that a false prophet will not proclaim Jesus Christ...if this is the case then so long as someone says, "I believe in Jesus," he can still avoid being called a false prophet. Unfortunatley for you, this interpretation goes against what pseudoprophetes means. :) When this term is used it is refering to someone that makes a claim as a divinely inspired prophet, but the prophecy ends up being false.

You need to look up the original definition of the word, as well as the context. The context will always give us the addition to the word and what stipulations apply, but the word itself will always give us the base meaning of what was meant in the passage. This is a good exegetical practice.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 05:31 AM
I provided about 10 different scriptures describing false prophets and how Robertson meets not one single passage and that is the best you can come up with? It's time to swallow the pride and admit that you are in error here.

Fact #1: Robertson meets not one single characteristic of anything the bible describes as being a false prophet.

Fact #2: Robertson has never claimed to be a prophet.

Fact #3: Operating in the gift of prophecy is not the same as holding the office of prophet.

Fact #4: Everyone in this thread making claims that Robertson is a false prophet are going against what scripture says about a false prophet, thus making themselves very hypocritical for judging someone when they themselves are going against the word of God.

Big T
Jan 4th 2007, 05:33 AM
The bottom line is that many of you have placed yourselves high above God. Pat Roberston is human-he can make mistakes-but that does NOT make him a false prophet. No wonder most of you have never heard the voice of God. I do not know if Pat has truely heard from
God in this instance, but I do know that bad things are coming to our world-it's in the book. Those of you out gathering fine stones to throw? Have YOU ever heard from God? Does He speak to you? Pat Robertson does hear from God-and so would the rest of us if we were to listen. Too many of you-are so concerned with calling someone else worthy of stoning that you can't see the log in your own eyes.Talk about judging. You need to stop with the "no wonder you haven't heard from God" stuff. That is not acceptable on this site.


Why do you assume that is false Todd? Don't know about millions, but the events of 9/11 came unexpected. There has been other terrorist bombimgs or attempted bombings happening and we all know that there are people who would love to do such a thing. I would never write that off. Instead of calling someone a fraud for saying that, let's just wait the year our and see what happens. Facts will speak for itself. We just entered 2007, and people already asume that this is false?The fact that "God told him" is what I question. Especially since he's "missed" a few. It's easy to claim something will happen.

When God spoke to a prophet in the bible, He was never vague. This prophecy from Pat, is too vague.


As this states, false prophets and false christs will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive the elect. I see no great signs and wonders coming from Robertson that he is using trying to deceive the elect.
You don't count lying as deceiving? The verses you quote, do not state that EVERY false prophet will act this way. Please note in Matt 24: 23-25 the words "if possible". 2 Peter 2:1-2 please note "secretly"

No prophet in the bible was ever wrong. Pat Robertson has been wrong. He believes himself a prophet. If you propheccize, you are a prophet. That is the definition of a prohet. "One who prophesizes"

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 05:43 AM
When God spoke to a prophet in the bible, He was never vague. This prophecy from Pat, is too vague.

Again, Robertson has never claimed to be a prophet. Operating in the gift of prophecy does not make one a prophet, nor does operating in the gift of prophecy incorrectly make one a false prophet.


You don't count lying as deceiving?

When someone truly believes what they are saying can you still consider it a lie? A lie is when you deliberately tell someone something that you know for a fact is false simply to try and deceive them. There is no evidence that this is what Robertson is trying to do here.


The verses you quote, do not state that EVERY false prophet will act this way. Please note in Matt 24: 23-25 the words "if possible". 2 Peter 2:1-2 please note "secretly"

Yes, they will all present these qualities because anything that is not of God is going to present these qualities. They will present the works of the flesh and they will reject the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those are the fitting descriptions of false prophets, and Robertson does not fit one single iota.


No prophet in the bible was ever wrong.

Robertson has never claimed to be a prophet.


He believes himself a prophet.

I've never seen him state such.


If you propheccize, you are a prophet. That is the definition of a prohet.

You are scripturally incorrect here. Read 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 to learn about the gift of prophecy. Paul wishes that EVERYONE would prophecy. However, the office of prophet is a calling given by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Making blanket statements that are not biblically sound puts you in the same boat you are accusing Pat Robertson. You are going against the Word of God right now.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 05:47 AM
I provided about 10 different scriptures describing false prophets and how Robertson meets not one single passage and that is the best you can come up with? It's time to swallow the pride and admit that you are in error here.

Fact #1: Robertson meets not one single characteristic of anything the bible describes as being a false prophet.

Fact #2: Robertson has never claimed to be a prophet.

Fact #3: Operating in the gift of prophecy is not the same as holding the office of prophet.

Fact #4: Everyone in this thread making claims that Robertson is a false prophet are going against what scripture says about a false prophet, thus making themselves very hypocritical for judging someone when they themselves are going against the word of God.


As I pointed out, your interpretation of the passages contradicts what the word means and its traditional use - therefore means your interpretation is off. That is the best because it really is that simple. Like I said, these characteristics add to what is already meant.

Furthermore, using the New Testament to prove your point is quite troublesome. The reason is that prophetes does not necessitate someone who fortells the future but instead teaches or brings forth the "hidden things" of the world.

The man has said he has diverted hurricanes (look to his teachings in the 1980's), has made himself a figurehead instead of pointing others to Christ. Likewise, I encourage you to look up Robertson saying in 1978 that because the Bible was written by human hand, it was contaminated. This contains two errors and heresies:

1) That all physical components are impure, which is inherently Gnostic in its origin

and

2) That God cannot speak through man and deliver a perfect message, which whether he meant this or not, gives us the implication that God is limited in what He can and cannot do.

However you cut it, if you want to play the word game, he ends up being a false prophet.

Please, stop being so antagonistic, it will not get you anywhere with me.

the J Man
Jan 4th 2007, 05:55 AM
The fact that "God told him" is what I question.

Okay, you mention that you "question" that God told him. To question someone doesn't mean thaey are wrong. If they were automatically wrong, you wouldn't have to question them.



It's easy to claim something will happen.

We'll find out what happens. Ike I already said, the year is still young yet. Time will tell. But there is no point in calling him a fraud over this. You cammot assume he is lying to say he heard God speak this to him.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 05:59 AM
There is no contradiction in the interpretation of the passages I listed. Robertson has met not one single passage that was listed that describes any characteristic of a false prophet.

Not to mention, you are making him something he has never claimed to be. Just because he claims to prophecy or control weather does not make him a prophet. You are grasping for many straws to try and keep a firm ground for your beliefs that is rapidly crumbling beneath your feet. I've presented numerous scriptures that clearly argue every accusation you make.

the J Man
Jan 4th 2007, 06:07 AM
The bottom line is that many of you have placed yourselves high above God. Pat Roberston is human-he can make mistakes-but that does NOT make him a false prophet. No wonder most of you have never heard the voice of God. I do not know if Pat has truely heard from
God in this instance, but I do know that bad things are coming to our world-it's in the book. Those of you out gathering fine stones to throw? Have YOU ever heard from God? Does He speak to you? Pat Robertson does hear from God-and so would the rest of us if we were to listen. Too many of you-are so concerned with calling someone else worthy of stoning that you can't see the log in your own eyes.

Your absolutely right! Many in the body of Christ are so busy slandering others. They only tear down rather than build up. These scriptures speak about that:



James4:11 says to not speak evil of one another. He that speaks evil of his brother, judges his brother, speaks evil of the law, and judges the law: but if you judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

1st Peter2:1 says to lay aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrasies, and envies, and all evil speakings.

Titus3:2 says to speak evil of no man and to show meekness to all.

I see people speaking evil towards Pat Robertson. You accuse him of being a fraud when he does minister Christ to people. A fraud woulodn't do that because if he were a fraud, he wouldn't have the Spirit of God in Him. You cannot lead people to the Lord without the Holy Spiirt. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth(John14:17 and John16:13). A false prophet wouldn't be preaching the gospel and calling people to repentance. Calling people to repentance is lacking in the church today.

And you right god'sgirl, God does speak to us if we allow Him to. Doesn't mean we are all prophets though.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 06:15 AM
I agree with you J Man. This constant backbiting and headhunting among those in the church really hinders the purpose the Lord has for us here. The scriptures I listed clearly demonstrate what false prophets will do. They will not lead others to the Lord. They will blaspheme the Lord. They will teach against the gospel. They will appeal to the flesh. They will deceive the elect. They will perform signs and wonders to deceive. The list goes on and on, and some simply fail to acknowledge what the Scriptures teach on this subject. We have people throwing accusations left and right, and basically condemning people to hell. This kind of conduct is simply unbiblical. Too much tearing down and not enough exhortation and edification.

the J Man
Jan 4th 2007, 06:54 AM
I agree with you J Man. This constant backbiting and headhunting among those in the church really hinders the purpose the Lord has for us here. The scriptures I listed clearly demonstrate what false prophets will do. They will not lead others to the Lord. They will blaspheme the Lord. They will teach against the gospel. They will appeal to the flesh. They will deceive the elect. They will perform signs and wonders to deceive. The list goes on and on, and some simply fail to acknowledge what the Scriptures teach on this subject. We have people throwing accusations left and right, and basically condemning people to hell. This kind of conduct is simply unbiblical. Too much tearing down and not enough exhortation and edification.

About false prophets, in 1st Kings chapter22, other than Micaiah, they all lied and compromised. They told the king of Isreal what he wanted to hear rather than thus sayeth the Lord. Pat Robertson is no compromiser. He has the guts to tell people they need to turn to Jesus.

About the signs and wonders that false prophets and false Christs will perform, that is by Satan's power. Satan counterfeits the things of God. He counterfeits the gifts of the Spirit. Demons can deceive people because they are not grounded in the Word. Those who are getting their power from the enemy, are not going to give the Lord Jesus Christ the credit. Satan would never annoint someone to give glory to the Lord since satan is bent on leading humanity to hell and dissuading them from accepting the saviour. Psychics, fortune tellers, sooth sayers, get their divination from Satan. That is what divination is. A counterfeit to prophecy. It is done through familiar spirits. Just as there is discernment, Satan has a counterfeit to that too. It is called "the third eye." Just as discernment is being able to see what is going on in the spirit realm, Satan allows his occultists to see into the spirit realm through the third eye.

Although Satan's occult workers can disguise themselves as christians and even use the name "Jesus," they are not going to give glory to the Lord. Since they are doing the will of Satan, they ar enot going to honor Jesus Christ a being Lord. 2nd Corinthians11"13-15 mentions them as being false apostles, deceitful workers, who transform themselves into apostles of Christ, ministers of righteousness just as Satan himself transforms into an angel of light.

If Pat Robertson gives the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ and ministers the gospel of the Lord and brings people to salvation, then there is NO WAY that he is a false prophet. There is NO WAY that he is operating out of divination. There is NO WAY that he is a deceitful worker who is apart of the occult.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 01:24 PM
About false prophets, in 1st Kings chapter22, other than Micaiah, they all lied and compromised. They told the king of Isreal what he wanted to hear rather than thus sayeth the Lord. Pat Robertson is no compromiser. He has the guts to tell people they need to turn to Jesus.

About the signs and wonders that false prophets and false Christs will perform, that is by Satan's power. Satan counterfeits the things of God. He counterfeits the gifts of the Spirit. Demons can deceive people because they are not grounded in the Word. Those who are getting their power from the enemy, are not going to give the Lord Jesus Christ the credit. Satan would never annoint someone to give glory to the Lord since satan is bent on leading humanity to hell and dissuading them from accepting the saviour. Psychics, fortune tellers, sooth sayers, get their divination from Satan. That is what divination is. A counterfeit to prophecy. It is done through familiar spirits. Just as there is discernment, Satan has a counterfeit to that too. It is called "the third eye." Just as discernment is being able to see what is going on in the spirit realm, Satan allows his occultists to see into the spirit realm through the third eye.

Although Satan's occult workers can disguise themselves as christians and even use the name "Jesus," they are not going to give glory to the Lord. Since they are doing the will of Satan, they ar enot going to honor Jesus Christ a being Lord. 2nd Corinthians11"13-15 mentions them as being false apostles, deceitful workers, who transform themselves into apostles of Christ, ministers of righteousness just as Satan himself transforms into an angel of light.

If Pat Robertson gives the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ and ministers the gospel of the Lord and brings people to salvation, then there is NO WAY that he is a false prophet. There is NO WAY that he is operating out of divination. There is NO WAY that he is a deceitful worker who is apart of the occult.

I agree, and everything you've stated is straight from the Word of God. Nothing that Robertson is doing could label him a false prophet unless you simply have no idea what a false prophet is and what the Word says they will do.

A false prophet CANNOT do anything that would aid in bringing someone to a relationship with Jesus Christ. As you said, that would bring glory to God and a false prophet simply will not do that. Jesus Christ stated the same when he was accused of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. A house divided will not stand, so a false prophet that is being empowered by Satan is not going to do anything to divide Satan's house by bringing glory to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those are simply the biblical facts.

Owen
Jan 4th 2007, 03:10 PM
Guys. Cool it, now. Its getting personal and not discussing the topic and that will stop. Understand?

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 06:14 PM
There is no contradiction in the interpretation of the passages I listed. Robertson has met not one single passage that was listed that describes any characteristic of a false prophet.

Not to mention, you are making him something he has never claimed to be. Just because he claims to prophecy or control weather does not make him a prophet. You are grasping for many straws to try and keep a firm ground for your beliefs that is rapidly crumbling beneath your feet. I've presented numerous scriptures that clearly argue every accusation you make.


As I pointed out (and I hope this doesn't end up going in circles), we need to start with the original term, what it means, and move from there. When we do this, psuedoprophetes has always been used to refer to someone that makes a claim about the future that eventually doesn't come true. This is its most basic definition. The scriptures you give also add to declerations.

As I pointed out, Pat Robertson has made claims in the past, aside from his false prophecies, that are heretical by definition. We can say he has led millions to Christ, but I would turn around and say this not the only thing that matters in life. If it were, then the Bible would not concern itself with other aspects of theology other than soteriology.

VerticalReality
Jan 4th 2007, 06:19 PM
If he's a false prophet . . . he's not going to lead anyone to Jesus Christ. So, all this arguing is completely null and void. Scripture gives the characteristics of a false prophet and Robertson doesn't meet them. Plain and simple. End of story.

graceful bliss
Jan 4th 2007, 06:36 PM
If he's a false prophet . . . he's not going to lead anyone to Jesus Christ. So, all this arguing is completely null and void. Scripture gives the characteristics of a false prophet and Robertson doesn't meet them. Plain and simple. End of story.

It seems we are taking this in a circle. As I stated, it is not as clear cut as you want to make it. There have been many false prophets, such as Binny Hinn and others, that have "led people to Christ." The problem is I think you are approaching scripture in a way it was not meant to be approached - through pragmatic lenses. Scripture is not pragmatic, thus when someone makes a pragmatic application or statement about scripture, it should always be evaluated.

You are saying that if a person leads people to Christ, he is not false. In other words, if the final result is salvation, how he got people there does not matter. This is not a stance the Bible takes. As I stated previously, soteriology is not the only aspect to Christian doctrine. Marcion led people to Christ, but this did not stop the early Church fathers from labeling him a false prophet and a heretic as well.

If I eat a McDonald's Big Mac, I will still be full, but it won't be healthy for me. Likewise, someone can come to Christ through any means, but it does not necessarily mean it is healthy. When we have people like Pat Robertson running around saying, "God told me this" and then the event never occurs, it makes people look at Christianity and believe it to be false. When Pat Robertson claims he can bench press 2,000 pounds (which is literally impossible) and then says it is because of the protein shake he uses, that we can buy, it makes him look like a false advertiser and thus a liar. It makes him a false prophet.

The mistake being made is you are looking solely to what he says and not his following actions. Even if we look to what he says we see many problems, but the actions that accompany him merely show him to be a false prophet. I do not know why you are so intent on dying upon this hill that he is not a false prophet, but I would again ask you to do a word study on psuedoprophetes and see how it does not fit into your current interpretation. You are essentially interpreting this word by a faulty context - the definition and interpretation you give is contradictory to its meaning.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 4th 2007, 07:25 PM
Ok; but what about his other failed statements? I mean educated guesses are good and all; but when God tells you something is going to happen isnt it suppose to happen? The track record aint pretty; things in 1996 didnt happen. If God tells you something and you repeat it then what does it make you? A soothsayer?

Clouds & Spikes
Jan 4th 2007, 07:34 PM
I don't watch Pat's show. I've only heard him talk maybe 10 minutes in my life.

But, If someone says "God told me..." and then it doesn't come true repeatedly, the person is either a false prophet or a fool. Neither of which should be listened to.



Brandon

Steve M
Jan 5th 2007, 02:54 PM
And what does his fruit show? Well, let's see . . .

He's made repeated efforts that I've seen to lead others to Christ, which is not a quality a false prophet will possess.

He's preached from the word of God on numerous occasions that I've seen without adding to scripture. This is not a quality of a false prophet.

I've never seen him teach things that appeal to the flesh, which is a quality of a false prophet.

I've never seen him deny the Lord, which is definitely a quality of a false prophet.

Again, Robertson doesn't meet any of these qualities, so how again is he a false prophet like some on here are trying to claim? His fruit in most areas I've seen are not indicative of someone who is a false teacher/prophet. Is he misguided perhaps? I would say so.
Actually, the only biblical description of a false prophet I can find is that the things they predict don't come to pass. I've never seen those attributes you've applied put on false prophets. False teachers and wolves, yes. But a false prophet is not necessarily a false teacher. In fact, the Bible applies the word 'presumptuous' to them--implying that some of them might even be trying to do a good thing.

But they speak presumptuously.

Deut 18

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

This is a message to test the words of those who proclaim prophecy. Any man who makes a prediction must expect it to be tested, because that's what the Bible says to do.

Steve M
Jan 5th 2007, 02:59 PM
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

I want you to notice that this passage does not call the person a "false prophet". However, it clearly states that this prophet can speak things not from the Lord. Why? Because even prophets can be subject to the flesh at times. A prophet is not somehow perfect or infallible.

I want you to notice something about this passage. What does verse 20 say?

20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."



To be a true prophet of the Lord and speak presumptuously was considered worthy of the death penalty under the Old Law. It made you just as bad as the one who spoke for other gods.

We're not under that same punishment today, thank God, but the principle stands. To speak presumptuously for God is a serious matter.

We all should examine that. We speak presumptuously any time we step outside the scriptures. When Pat leans on the scriptures and uses them, he is leaning on Him and cannot fail. When he steps outside them and makes predictions for the year of 2007 and speaks presumptiously, saying that God has told him that there will be a terrorist attack, he must be held accountable to the scriptures, and if it does not come to pass, (and it'll be really obvious if it doesn't) then we will know he has spoken presumptiously.

In the NT we are told to test the spirits. In the OT we are told to see whether what the prophet says comes to pass.

So, I'll be on the lookout for the fulfillment of this prophecy. Enough said.

VerticalReality
Jan 5th 2007, 03:27 PM
I want you to notice something about this passage. What does verse 20 say?

20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."



To be a true prophet of the Lord and speak presumptuously was considered worthy of the death penalty under the Old Law. It made you just as bad as the one who spoke for other gods.

We're not under that same punishment today, thank God, but the principle stands. To speak presumptuously for God is a serious matter.

We all should examine that. We speak presumptuously any time we step outside the scriptures. When Pat leans on the scriptures and uses them, he is leaning on Him and cannot fail. When he steps outside them and makes predictions for the year of 2007 and speaks presumptiously, saying that God has told him that there will be a terrorist attack, he must be held accountable to the scriptures, and if it does not come to pass, (and it'll be really obvious if it doesn't) then we will know he has spoken presumptiously.

In the NT we are told to test the spirits. In the OT we are told to see whether what the prophet says comes to pass.

So, I'll be on the lookout for the fulfillment of this prophecy. Enough said.

I have no problem whatsoever with anything you posted here. In fact, I think you are dead on. I also agree that this is a very serious matter. Fortunately for Mr. Robertson, we are no longer under the Old Covenant because his past proclamations may have landed him in some serious trouble. I'm not saying in this thread that I believe Robertson is right in what he's doing. I don't believe he has been. What I'm saying is that Mr. Robertson doesn't really fit the bill for what the New Testament describes as a false prophet. False prophets are evil. False prophets are against the gospel. False prophets deny the Lord Jesus Christ. He has definitely been wrong about what he's done with these "predictions". However, some of the charges being leveled against him are very serious in this thread. Many here have basically condemned this man to hell. You get right down to it and that's what has been done. False prophets will have no part in the kingdom of God, so calling anyone a false prophet is the same as condemning them to hell. If you're wrong with this judgement, you will have to account for it later.

VerticalReality
Jan 5th 2007, 03:28 PM
Actually, the only biblical description of a false prophet I can find is that the things they predict don't come to pass. I've never seen those attributes you've applied put on false prophets. False teachers and wolves, yes. But a false prophet is not necessarily a false teacher. In fact, the Bible applies the word 'presumptuous' to them--implying that some of them might even be trying to do a good thing.

But they speak presumptuously.

Deut 18

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

This is a message to test the words of those who proclaim prophecy. Any man who makes a prediction must expect it to be tested, because that's what the Bible says to do.

Did you not see all the passages I listed on page 4? They all speak of false prophets except for the very last one.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 5th 2007, 04:12 PM
so what your saying is that in order to be a prophet you have to call yourself one? is that like me saying that I'am a pastor without a church; I mean I talk to alot of people about God and all.. and have a small following of people. I think that when you cross the lines of saying "God said.." then your saying something dangerous period point blank. Say what you will; but I think he will be held accountable for the things hes said.

threebigrocks
Jan 5th 2007, 04:29 PM
I have no problem whatsoever with anything you posted here. In fact, I think you are dead on. I also agree that this is a very serious matter. Fortunately for Mr. Robertson, we are no longer under the Old Covenant because his past proclamations may have landed him in some serious trouble. I'm not saying in this thread that I believe Robertson is right in what he's doing. I don't believe he has been. What I'm saying is that Mr. Robertson doesn't really fit the bill for what the New Testament describes as a false prophet. False prophets are evil. False prophets are against the gospel. False prophets deny the Lord Jesus Christ. He has definitely been wrong about what he's done with these "predictions". However, some of the charges being leveled against him are very serious in this thread. Many here have basically condemned this man to hell. You get right down to it and that's what has been done. False prophets will have no part in the kingdom of God, so calling anyone a false prophet is the same as condemning them to hell. If you're wrong with this judgement, you will have to account for it later.

If this were OT times, he would have already been put to death. That's a bit more than serious trouble if you ask me.

The definition of false prophet hasn't really changed, but the way they are tested has. If they don't come true, God will judge Pat Robertson righteously and justly. But, I will use my discernment and common sense and stay away from his teachings.

So for now, we wait and see if he is right or if he is wrong. With his past track record, I'm not holding my breath.

VerticalReality
Jan 5th 2007, 05:02 PM
so what your saying is that in order to be a prophet you have to call yourself one? is that like me saying that I'am a pastor without a church; I mean I talk to alot of people about God and all.. and have a small following of people. I think that when you cross the lines of saying "God said.." then your saying something dangerous period point blank. Say what you will; but I think he will be held accountable for the things hes said.

I don't question that any of us will be held accountable for what we do or say. However, a false prophet is a child of Satan . . . not a child of God, and anytime you level such an accusation towards a person, you better be dead on in what you say. Otherwise, it is you who will be doing the answering.

Big T
Jan 5th 2007, 05:13 PM
He claims God tells him to tell us these things, you think that's not a false prophet? He doesn't have to say he's a prophet and I don't think Ezekiel ever called himself a prophet, did he? So does that mean he wasn't one?

He, Pat Robertson, is a liar, a deceiver, creates division in the body, his actions keep some people from knowing the Lord as saviour and I believe that Christ would be turning over his tables if He was here......

Show me a prophet in the bible that was ever wrong.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 5th 2007, 06:36 PM
http://home.knology.net/news/read.php?ps=1011&id=14660069&_LT=MNEW_APN1DCCI1_UN

Now.. if this is God; then how could he miss?

ProjectPeter
Jan 5th 2007, 08:03 PM
He claims God tells him to tell us these things, you think that's not a false prophet? He doesn't have to say he's a prophet and I don't think Ezekiel ever called himself a prophet, did he? So does that mean he wasn't one?

He, Pat Robertson, is a liar, a deceiver, creates division in the body, his actions keep some people from knowing the Lord as saviour and I believe that Christ would be turning over his tables if He was here......

Show me a prophet in the bible that was ever wrong.
Interesting challenge and one folks should ponder. ;)

Jonah 3:1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying,
2 "Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and proclaim to it the proclamation which I am going to tell you."
3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three days' walk.
4 Then Jonah began to go through the city one day's walk; and he cried out and said, "Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown."

Jonah 3:10 ¶When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.

And reading that last chapter you will see that this is exactly what frosted Jonah's shorts. Back in that day prophecying something and it not happen... not always a safe thing to have happen! :lol:

Big T
Jan 5th 2007, 08:56 PM
Good one. Yes, what Jonah said would happen, didn't happen. or did it?

ProjectPeter
Jan 5th 2007, 09:00 PM
Good one. Yes, what Jonah said would happen, didn't happen. or did it?
Not in 40 days. Years later they were overthrown as they didn't continue in their repentance. But no... it didn't happen as prophecied in 40 days.

Centurionoflight
Jan 5th 2007, 09:07 PM
And reading that last chapter you will see that this is exactly what frosted Jonah's shorts. Back in that day prophecying something and it not happen... not always a safe thing to have happen!

Jonah wanted them to be punished by God; thus why he avoided going there to warn them to repent.

Triquetra
Jan 5th 2007, 10:45 PM
Again, Robertson has never claimed to be a prophet. Operating in the gift of prophecy does not make one a prophet, nor does operating in the gift of prophecy incorrectly make one a false prophet.

Prophesying does appear to be in Pat's blood. For someone who doesn't claim the title of prophesier, he sure takes it upon himself to ramble on and on about such things; and he's prophesied some whoppers that didn't come true. How many mulligans does he get before he is finally considered a false prophet, or at least someone who should simply be ignored?

Big T
Jan 6th 2007, 04:49 AM
Not in 40 days. Years later they were overthrown as they didn't continue in their repentance. But no... it didn't happen as prophecied in 40 days.I was going for a stretch. It was a "wicked" city. They repented. It is no longer wicked. Therefore the wickedness was "overthrown".

VerticalReality
Jan 6th 2007, 05:10 AM
Prophesying does appear to be in Pat's blood. For someone who doesn't claim the title of prophesier, he sure takes it upon himself to ramble on and on about such things; and he's prophesied some whoppers that didn't come true. How many mulligans does he get before he is finally considered a false prophet, or at least someone who should simply be ignored?

I do not disagree that he is prophesying things that aren't correct. Either that or he has acted on what he's gotten presumptuously. However, as I have contended and will continue to contend, operating in the gift of prophecy does not make you a prophet just like operating in that gift incorrectly doesn't make you a false prophet. These are gifts that are working through earthen vessels. The flesh influences Robertson just like it does you or I at times. Why do you think scripture tells us to judge prophecy? You judge prophecy because it is understood that the flesh will sometimes have influence. We are not perfect, and we will never be perfect until we cross over into glory. If we are going to operate prophetically in ministry, it needs to be understood that sometimes the flesh is a hinderance, and all things of a prophetic nature needs to be judged. The real problem here it seems to me is that Robertson isn't judging the words he's getting, and he's not allowing others in leadership to judge them either before he goes out talking to the media. I don't doubt there is a problem there. However, the false prophet claim is still a dangerous accusation to be making.

the J Man
Jan 6th 2007, 06:16 AM
He claims God tells him to tell us these things, you think that's not a false prophet?

How do you figure that makes him a false prophet? In the old testament, God had a message for these prophets to tell the people as well. If God gave you a prophetic word for someone, your obviously going to tell that to them. That is what a prophetic word is about.

ProjectPeter
Jan 6th 2007, 02:28 PM
I was going for a stretch. It was a "wicked" city. They repented. It is no longer wicked. Therefore the wickedness was "overthrown".
But then how would doing that being any different than Robertson trying to tie the fact that he said a tsunami was coming and then trying to make that partially fulfilled because of all the rain on the coast this year? I guess to me... stretching is stretching.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 6th 2007, 04:03 PM
I do not disagree that he is prophesying things that aren't correct. Either that or he has acted on what he's gotten presumptuously. However, as I have contended and will continue to contend, operating in the gift of prophecy does not make you a prophet just like operating in that gift incorrectly doesn't make you a false prophet. These are gifts that are working through earthen vessels. The flesh influences Robertson just like it does you or I at times. Why do you think scripture tells us to judge prophecy? You judge prophecy because it is understood that the flesh will sometimes have influence. We are not perfect, and we will never be perfect until we cross over into glory. If we are going to operate prophetically in ministry, it needs to be understood that sometimes the flesh is a hinderance, and all things of a prophetic nature needs to be judged. The real problem here it seems to me is that Robertson isn't judging the words he's getting, and he's not allowing others in leadership to judge them either before he goes out talking to the media. I don't doubt there is a problem there. However, the false prophet claim is still a dangerous accusation to be making.

that is some confusing reasoning to me. I think theres a problem with one hes said "I miss sometimes" so is it really God or is it really him saying it's God?

godsgirl
Jan 6th 2007, 05:46 PM
I think with all the stone throwing going on on this thread-at least we ought to "hear" what Pat really said....


Below is what Pat Robertson spoke on the January 2nd, 700 Club program, along with his co-host Terry Meeuwsen



PAT ROBERTSON: Well, we'll be talking about that. And I think people, Terry, are interested in finding out, since we're talking about 2007--I've been away for a prayer retreat. And I've put these things out with humility, but nevertheless, I have a relatively good track record. Sometimes I've missed.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: And without doubt, every year, as you seek God, I guess this is His promise to all of us. But as you go away and seek Him for the coming year, God shows you some amazing things.

PAT ROBERTSON: The first thing, Terry, that I think is God's Word to His people, to the believers worldwide, not just here in America, and the promise is that this year is going to be a year of extraordinary miracles.

And if I'm hearing the Lord right, there are such extraordinary things that are going to take place: victory over demonic powers, victory of healing; some dramatic miracles taking place in people's lives.

And the Lord said it's going to seem to the people like Heaven has come down to earth. It's going to be that good. It's going to be really an extraordinary demonstration of God's power.

The other thing He said was that this is the final year of the great demonstration of His grace to the world. For the last 12 years, we have had evangelism unprecedented in countries like India and Indonesia and Nigeria, and so forth. And CBN right now, we have recorded somewhere in the neighborhood of 461 million decisions since the fall of communism. Well, that is going to come, I think, to an end, at least that great anointing.

Well, the other thing I felt was that evil men; evil people, are going to try to do evil things to us and to others during the last part of this year. I don't know whether it'll be in the fall or September or later on, but it'll be the second half, somehow, of 2007. There will be some very serious terrorist attacks. The evil people will come after this country.

And there's a possibility that--not a possibly--a definite certainty that chaos is going to rule, and the Lord said that the politicians will not have any solutions for it. There's just going to be chaos. And, of course, we saw chaos in the Gulf after Katrina. The politicians had no answers.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: I think that that rang resonant in everyone's heart, as they looked at it and realized that when something big happens....

PAT ROBERTSON: We're not ready.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: ...there's no solution.

PAT ROBERTSON: It's going to happen. And I'm not saying necessarily nuclear. The Lord didn't say "nuclear," but I do believe it'll be something like that that'll be a mass killing, possibly millions of people, and major cities injured. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope people will pray and that won't happen. But nevertheless, that seems to be what's coming up.

And then the Lord said He will restrain the evil people, but He will not restrain them necessarily initially. And He doesn't have to restrain people. They're evil people, and they do evil things, and they desire evil.

The other thing on my heart and on His heart is the nation of Israel. And what He says was the United States pretends to be the supporter of Israel, but that we are pushing Israel toward national suicide, our policies are pushing Israel toward national suicide. And He also said that the policies of the current Israeli administration are, quote, "toxic" for the nation of Israel.

So the last couple of years, He has said that we're entering into the most dangerous time in the history of Israel. That has been born out by this last war they had. It's clear that another war, sooner or later, is coming.

But the word was that the Olmert policies were "toxic," "toxic" for the nation of Israel, and that the United States was feigning friendship but pushing them toward national suicide.

So these are some of the things. The other thing is that there's going to be a great anointing of His Spirit upon His people. The believers are going to have just an extraordinary time.

And the last word that I got was on New Year's Day. And that took from the tenth chapter of Ezra, when, you remember, the Jewish people had come back from captivity. The Lord had given them a little respite, and, lo and behold, they immediately began to break His Word and to intermarry with the heathen people.

And Ezra was overwhelmed, the scribe, and he called for a national repentance. And he said, "You've got to put away from you this evil." Well, I thought, "How does this apply to us?" And the truth is that the Christians particularly have intermarried with the evil.

We have television that is just full of evil. We have motion pictures full of evil. Not only violence, but sexuality and permissiveness. Then, on the Internet, we have all kinds of evil that people are allowing themselves to get into. And then, more than that, there's this air of materialism where we're caught up in it.

And it was as if God is saying, "You've got to put away from yourself those heathen influences that are taking over. Because I'm going to do something wonderful for you, but it's not going to happen unless you put away the heathen influences."

So I believe that it's going to be--these first few months, I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be an extraordinary time, and we should expect miracles beyond our wildest fantasies in the first six months.

And after then--chaotic. And we'll be talking in subsequent programs about some of the things that you might do specifically. But the idea is what the Bible says, "Seek humility, seek righteousness, that you may be hid in the day of that wrath." And I think we need to be....

TERRY MEEUWSEN: And to not be afraid.

PAT ROBERTSON: Oh, why should we be afraid?

TERRY MEEUWSEN: God is in control.

PAT ROBERTSON: God, He's in charge of the whole thing.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: Exactly.

PAT ROBERTSON: And so, if you get blown up or something, you go to Heaven, and that's the worst thing that'll happen to you. But we have evil people in the world.

And there's a cleric in Saudi Arabia who has issued a fatwa (A legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar) that gave Osama bin Laden the permission to kill ten-million people in the West. A cleric. He said, "Under Islamic law, I find that you have permission to kill ten-million people." And one of the leaders of Iran was saying, "Well, if we go to war with Israel, and Israel annihilates us and we annihilate them, if it costs 18-million dead, it'll be worth it if we can destroy Israel."

Now, we're dealing with people who think that way. The fact that they might do a job on Chicago or Los Angeles or Washington or New York, we shouldn't be surprised, because they're evil people.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: Well, they've said that's their intention.

PAT ROBERTSON: They've said that's what they're going to do. But God said He's going to restrain the evil, but He isn't necessarily going to restrain it from the beginning.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: Right.

PAT ROBERTSON: And so, a lot of these things can be reversed. We just need to do a lot of praying. But I think seek righteousness, seek humility, and we'll be passing out some tips about what to do in case of disaster. I didn't get a whole lot of word about natural disasters.

Last year, the Lord said the coasts would be lashed by storms. Not necessarily hurricanes, but lashed. Up in New England, lashed. Denver--well not coast, but the Pacific Northwest. And then, of course, over in the Philippines, two typhoons, one right after the other. Coasts around have been lashed by storms. I don't know that we're going to have a great many natural disasters, at least I don't have any message in terms of that.

TERRY MEEUWSEN: It'd be nice to have a respite in that area after all this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I can't guarantee it; I just didn't hear anything. Okay.

graceful bliss
Jan 6th 2007, 06:03 PM
PAT ROBERTSON: The first thing, Terry, that I think is God's Word to His people, to the believers worldwide, not just here in America, and the promise is that this year is going to be a year of extraordinary miracles.

And if I'm hearing the Lord right, there are such extraordinary things that are going to take place: victory over demonic powers, victory of healing; some dramatic miracles taking place in people's lives.

And the Lord said it's going to seem to the people like Heaven has come down to earth. It's going to be that good. It's going to be really an extraordinary demonstration of God's power.

The other thing He said was that this is the final year of the great demonstration of His grace to the world. For the last 12 years, we have had evangelism unprecedented in countries like India and Indonesia and Nigeria, and so forth. And CBN right now, we have recorded somewhere in the neighborhood of 461 million decisions since the fall of communism. Well, that is going to come, I think, to an end, at least that great anointing.

Well, the other thing I felt was that evil men; evil people, are going to try to do evil things to us and to others during the last part of this year. I don't know whether it'll be in the fall or September or later on, but it'll be the second half, somehow, of 2007. There will be some very serious terrorist attacks. The evil people will come after this country.

And there's a possibility that--not a possibly--a definite certainty that chaos is going to rule, and the Lord said that the politicians will not have any solutions for it. There's just going to be chaos. And, of course, we saw chaos in the Gulf after Katrina. The politicians had no answers.

This guy is completely wrong. A terrorist attack is likely (mainly because it's always likely in America), but everything else he promises is way off. How in the world is it going to seem like Heaven has come down to earth in just a short period of time?


The guy is a false prophet offering false hope.

Big T
Jan 6th 2007, 06:27 PM
How do you figure that makes him a false prophet? Typo, I did not mean to have the word "false" in there.


But then how would doing that being any different than Robertson trying to tie the fact that he said a tsunami was coming and then trying to make that partially fulfilled because of all the rain on the coast this year? I guess to me... stretching is stretching.True, but then that only let's him off the hook for one prophesy. Aside from the fact that we have not heard of any city "repenting" in fact N.O. proudly stated the fact that they have not repented, by holding Mardis Gras and other festivals of similar nature.

Big T
Jan 6th 2007, 06:58 PM
PAT ROBERTSON: It's going to happen. And I'm not saying necessarily nuclear. The Lord didn't say "nuclear," but I do believe it'll be something like that that'll be a mass killing, possibly millions of people, and major cities injured. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope people will pray and that won't happen. But nevertheless, that seems to be what's coming up.
This is what gets me. First he says "the Lord didn't say nuclear" meaning that this vision comes from the Lord, but He didn't say nuclear.

Then he says "I hope I'm wrong". HUH?!

So is it his or the Lord's?


Now, we're dealing with people who think that way. The fact that they might do a job on Chicago or Los Angeles or Washington or New York, we shouldn't be surprised, because they're evil people.
Again, the Lord is not vague. However, this is.

threebigrocks
Jan 6th 2007, 07:01 PM
PAT ROBERTSON: And so, a lot of these things can be reversed. We just need to do a lot of praying. But I think seek righteousness, seek humility, and we'll be passing out some tips about what to do in case of disaster. I didn't get a whole lot of word about natural disasters.

God said certain things will happen. Robertson says that repeatedly. Then we can reverse them? Sounds like God changing His mind to me. A lot of people do a lot of praying a lot of the time in this world. Some dedicate their lives to prayer. But, if Robertson is saying that certain things will indeed happen, but we can change God's plan, that is setting himself up for a cover up. If things don't happen, well, we musta prayed enough. To me, God's plan is God's plan and He will carry it out no matter what. The end times will be ugly business, without a doubt. We won't be spared that. But, we will still have our faith and know that God is indeed in control of all. God's will be done, not ours and that means what we perceve to be good or bad will happen and there is nothing we can do.

I believe that prayer is our greatest weapon, but we cannot wipe out evil through prayer, keep bad things from happening. We can pray for protection from evil, but fact is that we are in a world of evil ever since the fall. That final battle to defeat evil is not ours to sign, seal and deliver. That finality is reserved for Christ and the angels. In the meantime we have faith through Christ that we will one day be delivered to a place He has preparied for us where evil cannot exist.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 6th 2007, 09:14 PM
PAT ROBERTSON: Well, we'll be talking about that. And I think people, Terry, are interested in finding out, since we're talking about 2007--I've been away for a prayer retreat. And I've put these things out with humility, but nevertheless, I have a relatively good track record. Sometimes I've missed.

Sounds like meism nad not God talking really none the less... I mean that is pretty much to the point. Who is really talking here? Is it God or someone saything they are hearing from God?

SIG
Jan 6th 2007, 09:26 PM
Robertson's ilk makes me ashamed to admit I'm a Christian.

the J Man
Jan 6th 2007, 10:00 PM
Robertson's ilk makes me ashamed to admit I'm a Christian.

Why should Robertson or anyone else effect your walk with God? :confused

Jukebox Girl
Jan 6th 2007, 10:57 PM
Why should Robertson or anyone else effect your walk with God? :confused

I don't think the OP was referring to his walk with God being effected (although I can't speak for them. Maybe they were!) The way I took it was that the rest of the world looks at Christianity and sees Pat Robertson type figures. They might be trying their darndest to make Christianity stronger in this nation, but all they're really doing is making it look like a joke to the common man. Watch Saturday Night Live one night and you'll see what I'm talking about. Christianity gone wrong is all the world ever sees nowadays. They don't even bat an eyelash at Christianity in the right sense of the term because there's always some instance of it in the wrong sense that they can back up their preconcieved notions with. When I watch the 700 Club all I can think of is how many non-Christians look at it and think that's what all Christians are like.

Seeker of truth
Jan 6th 2007, 11:04 PM
I don't think the OP was referring to his walk with God being effected (although I can't speak for them. Maybe they were!) The way I took it was that the rest of the world looks at Christianity and sees Pat Robertson type figures. They might be trying their darndest to make Christianity stronger in this nation, but all they're really doing is making it look like a joke to the common man. Watch Saturday Night Live one night and you'll see what I'm talking about. Christianity gone wrong is all the world ever sees nowadays. They don't even bat an eyelash at Christianity in the right sense of the term because there's always some instance of it in the wrong sense that they can back up their preconcieved notions with. When I watch the 700 Club all I can think of is how many non-Christians look at it and think that's what all Christians are like.

I agree with this.

Big T
Jan 6th 2007, 11:06 PM
Robertson's ilk makes me ashamed to admit I'm a Christian.I'm never ashamed to admit I'm a Christian. But I am ashamed that people like Pat claim to speak for us.

I understand what you mean, though. It is sad that people associate him with good Christians. He is one of several people that did keep me from wanting to become a Christian.

the J Man
Jan 7th 2007, 12:37 AM
I don't think the OP was referring to his walk with God being effected (although I can't speak for them. Maybe they were!)

I was speaking to SIG, no the OP, but anyhow.....


The way I took it was that the rest of the world looks at Christianity and sees Pat Robertson type figures.

No the rest of the world looks at christianity the way you and I and other chrsitians live our lvies. We are to be living epistles. We are to be lights in the world. We are ambassodors of Christ. How we(that is you and I and others) represent Christ is how they will see christianity.


They might be trying their darndest to make Christianity stronger in this nation, but all they're really doing is making it look like a joke to the common man. Watch Saturday Night Live one night and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Why because many in the world mock our faith, it's now Pat Robertson's fault? Poeple mocked Jesus, they mocked the apostles, and yes the will mock us too.


Christianity gone wrong is all the world ever sees nowadays. They don't even bat an eyelash at Christianity in the right sense of the term because there's always some instance of it in the wrong sense that they can back up their preconcieved notions with. When I watch the 700 Club all I can think of is how many non-Christians look at it and think that's what all Christians are like.

About christianity gone wrong, and why the world looks this way towards christianity, is because many chrsitians have not lived the life. Although there are some who are living it, many are not.

I see so many christians gossipping and slandering one another. They are mean to one another, there are christians who hate each other. They tear each other down with malice and hostility. One memebr of this board mentioned how many times in Bible Chat, in discussions where someone doesn't agree with her, they accuse her of all sorts things and hurl insults at her. People who treat other slike that, don't have the love of Christ in them. Jesus told us to, love on another. and do unto others as you would have done unto you. See 1st Corinthians13:1-8 to see what the Word is saying about what love is, and how many in these forums by their nasty insults and arguing and bickering, are really misisng it. Colossians1:12 tells us to be kind and merciful to one another, not tear each other down

About christians not loving one another, there are cliques in many churches, if you don't fit in with them, they treat you like a stranger. I have seen people judge others, I have been wrongfully judged myself. I have had people both online and offline hate my guts because they did not like my stance on an issue or because I told them the truth and they did not want to hear it. The Word of God says that if you hate your brother, you are a murderer and also you are a liar to say that you love God. yet many christians hate you if you don't go along with the program, But Jesus never went along with the program.

I have encoutered racial and ethnic hatred in the church. My wife and I are interracial. Some christians opose our marriage and twist the scriptures around to back up their slanderous point. I have seen some christians who don't want to associate with people of other races and exalt their race as being the supreme race. There are racial hate groups that refer to themselves as "christian groups." No wonder why the world sees christianity as being filled with hypocrites. The bible says to love one another, but yet some don't love you if your a different race or nationality?:rolleyes:

There is a lot of denomiantionalism in the church. Poeple are divided because of denomination. God hates division, yet many churches practice it. Just like on the day of Pentacost in Acts chapter2, the believers were in one acord, this is how God wants His church to be also. Philippians2:2 tells us to be likeminded. Ephesians4:3-6 tells us to be in unity and that there is one God.

Many come into the church need help and deliverance emotionally. But many don't get the help they need. Many are wounded. But what is the body of Christ doing as a whole to help those people? Why is it that many go to church time after time, and don't end up any beter than they were before? God gave us ministry, we are supposed to be frutiful in ministry(Colossians1:10). We are supposed to bear fruit for the Kingdom of God(John15:4-6). That included helping people when they are in need.

When christians gossip and slander each other, when they are mean to each other, when they deal treacherously with one another, and cheat others to get ahead, when they are divided because of race, nationality, or divided because of denomination, when they do nothing to help those in need, when they argue and bicker with each other, when they are judgemental to others, they do nothing but give christianity a bad rep. I don't see Pat Robertson living like that. The only way that christianity's reputation will be restored, is when christians truly started living the life that God ahs called them to live and start beign the true ambassodors of Christ that they are suppsoed to be. Til then, no point and blaming Pat Robertson.

ProjectPeter
Jan 7th 2007, 01:17 AM
Typo, I did not mean to have the word "false" in there.

True, but then that only let's him off the hook for one prophesy. Aside from the fact that we have not heard of any city "repenting" in fact N.O. proudly stated the fact that they have not repented, by holding Mardis Gras and other festivals of similar nature.

Oh I wouldn't intend on letting him off the hook. He has said some boneheaded things no doubt. Would God allow that to happen? Sure. Could it happen? Sure. Could it be judgment? Sure. Did God give that to Pat as a "thus sayeth"? I'd be certainly suspect of that simply because Pat's track record ain't so good.

Triquetra
Jan 7th 2007, 01:51 AM
I do not disagree that he is prophesying things that aren't correct. Either that or he has acted on what he's gotten presumptuously. However, as I have contended and will continue to contend, operating in the gift of prophecy does not make you a prophet just like operating in that gift incorrectly doesn't make you a false prophet. These are gifts that are working through earthen vessels. The flesh influences Robertson just like it does you or I at times. Why do you think scripture tells us to judge prophecy? You judge prophecy because it is understood that the flesh will sometimes have influence. We are not perfect, and we will never be perfect until we cross over into glory. If we are going to operate prophetically in ministry, it needs to be understood that sometimes the flesh is a hinderance, and all things of a prophetic nature needs to be judged. The real problem here it seems to me is that Robertson isn't judging the words he's getting, and he's not allowing others in leadership to judge them either before he goes out talking to the media. I don't doubt there is a problem there. However, the false prophet claim is still a dangerous accusation to be making.

Although I agree with T on this issue overall, I also believe what you say to be correct. One may be a security guard and do some of the things a police officer does, but one still isn't a police officer.....if you get my drift.

I do not believe PR to be a prophet. However, I do believe that he enjoys the "thrill" of prophecy, maybe a little too much. I wouldn't necessarily say he's a false prophet, but I do question his motives. Most of his prophecies are generic in nature and contain little to no substance.

Talk of a major terrorist attack has practically been around since 9/11. Remember, it had been roughly 8 years prior to 9/11 since the previous attack on the WTC. Therefore, the longer the terrorists wait on their next attack, the more likely his chances of being right will be.

the J Man
Jan 7th 2007, 06:25 AM
Talk of a major terrorist attack has practically been around since 9/11. Remember, it had been roughly 8 years prior to 9/11 since the previous attack on the WTC. Therefore, the longer the terrorists wait on their next attack, the more likely his chances of being right will be.

Ahhh, but the thing is, you don't know when they will strike. You can never predict a time unless the Lord showed it to you. For all you know, it could happen tommorrow, the next day or the day after. It could happen next week, a month from now a year from now, or many years down the road. But if the Lord revealed to you what is going to happen, then you can know.

xSTEADFASTx
Jan 7th 2007, 02:41 PM
then when a terrorist attack happens anytime from that day forward that he "predicted it" :rolleyes:

SIG
Jan 7th 2007, 05:16 PM
OT and NT prophets spoke for God in a necessary way--in a way that would become Scripture itself. This provided compelling evidence--and all the evidence that the world needs--that God is sovereign and true.

What is the purpose of supposedly predicting Headline News? And worse--what is the effect when these delusional "words from God" prove to be false?

This brand of religion is so far from the mark that it no way represents Christ's character or purpose.

I laugh at this type of "Christianity"--but it's not funny.

Matthew
Jan 5th 2008, 02:10 AM
I think this is an appropriate time to bump this thread. Here is the link originally posted by Big T: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240841,00.html

and here is a link to the transcript:

http://www.cbn.com/about/PatRobertson_2007_Transcript.aspx

Doesn't look like he did so well with his predictions (thankfully).

diffangle
Jan 5th 2008, 04:26 AM
I think this is an appropriate time to bump this thread. Here is the link originally posted by Big T: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240841,00.html

and here is a link to the transcript:

http://www.cbn.com/about/PatRobertson_2007_Transcript.aspx

Doesn't look like he did so well with his predictions (thankfully).
I'm not a huge fan but he got this one right(the whole "Road Map to Peace"/Annapolis meeting):hmm:...



And what He says was the United States pretends to be the supporter of Israel, but that we are pushing Israel toward national suicide, our policies are pushing Israel toward national suicide. And He also said that the policies of the current Israeli administration are, quote, “toxic” for the nation of Israel. So the last couple of years He has said that we’re entering into the most dangerous time in the history of Israel. That has been born out by this last war they had. It’s clear that another war, sooner or later, is coming. But the word was that the Olmert policies were “toxic,” “toxic” for the nation of Israel, and that the United States was feigning friendship but pushing them toward national suicide.

MLC
Jan 7th 2008, 01:31 AM
PR definitely says some stupid things sometimes, and is also too quick to predict certain things, but as some have said he doesn't claim to be a prophet and also has never said "thus saith the lord". But even though i disagree with many of his actions, i know for a fact that his words of knowledge about healing are true and that his organization has been responsible for literally bringing hundreds of millions of people to Christ. He may make mistakes, but God uses him in powerful ways.

Also, in reply to his predictions which did not occur, specifically the nuclear one... "All I can think is that somehow the people of God prayed and God in his mercy spared us." Now, I am not saying that he is correct in saying that with his specific prediction, but what he said is still biblical, there are examples in the bible of prophecies being delayed due to God's grace and the prayer of his people. As a matter of fact, regardless of whether you believe what he says, we should all be praying for mercy upon this nation, and I believe God does indeed listen. I'll leave it at that.