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View Full Version : Nate needs your help (spiritual warfare/nightmares)



moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 05:45 PM
This is going to be long so read when you have time and please don't rush through it so we can avoid misunderstandings on replies, those that scan a post then jump to conclusions only hurt me and derail the whole thread, people tend to then read their posts, and assume they know what they are talking about and keep replying along the same line of thought, when they haven't even read my post, or just scanned it, and this is important to me and Nate, I need help, not to be bashed. Thanks.

I hope the ones with the knowledge on this see it because right now I don't know what to do to help him.

Nate has been suffering from nightmares since before he was three years old. Terrible, horrible nightmares usually about demons. Now where he orginally learned about demons he said was from his dad...who told him demons were out to 'hurt people'...now why in the world his dad (a drunk and mentally not right in the head) would ever tell him this (especially a little bitty child) I have no idea! And usually kids forget, but the nightmares have never stopped in all of these years. Nate is now 11 and just had another really bad one last night. Woke me up in the night so scared! He had one just last week too and he is so tried of them...he just wants them to stop. He feels like he is being targeted. The bad thing is when its a school morning and it takes him a long time to get back to sleep, then so hard to get up in the mornings and go to school.

Its really hard to know what to do in this situation. I will say the nightmares have gradually gotten better over time. He used to have them three nights in a row...by the third night that is usually when I would let him just sleep because he would be getting just too tired to even focus or learn anything in school, plus being extremely cranky. Now they seem to happen one night then he is ok for awhile.

Because we have struggled with the nightmares for so many years, one of our bed time prayers includes him having no bad dreams. We pray the Lord's prayer then I pray that Jesus be with us through the night and that we sleep well with no bad dreams and He be with us through our busy day tomorrow. Its just part of our routine now and has been for years. The prayers don't always stop the nightmares though. :(

People would try to blame me for them, asking me what kind of shows I let him watch, or what was I telling him or doing to cause this fear of demons. Which just made me feel bad and hurt, but honestly I could never find any connection to anything he watched or heard about with his dreams. Our church isn't one that talks about demons or tries to cast demons out of people or anything like that. When Nate was little he would go to children's church downstairs and if the pastor happened to read a verse that included anything about satan or demons, Nate never heard it. And I wasn't going around talking about such things.

Now I have said on here how I used spiritual warfare because of the voilent rages Nate used to have, but I always went to another room and spoke in a whisper so he never heard me rebuking anything. I didn't want to freak him out more, you know?

When he was five he wanted to kill himself (this was all due to the abuse he went through by his dad...mostly emotional), and I got him into a mental health hospital for help...but to that point his therapist wasn't taking what Nate was doing seriously at all. There he told a nurse he heard hundreds and hundreds of demon's telling him to hurt himself or others. :( And would sometimes see things. Well they thought he was either bipolar or sciophrenic and put him on heavy duty medication. None of that helped...just drugged him to the point he could barely function. :( The only thing that finally helped was spiritual warfare. The rages stopped, the extreme anxiety got better (it was much, much worse believe me).

But we are stuck still with the nightmares. The only connection I have made is me! Like one time I got invited to a board from a man on the internet ..his ideas were different regarding the bible, the end times, etc. I was curious and trying to be open minded about his views thinking, well this is something I never explored and maybe their is some truth to it. He sent me a PM giving me his phone number, encouraging me to call him. Being maybe a little more friendly then he should have been. Now Nate knew nothing about this...I mean why would I tell him I was looking around this board? He is a kid and wouldn't care nor understand. So he had no idea what was going on, but then he had this terrible nightmare about someone trying to get into our house...banging and banging on the front door. And we ran and hid downstairs...then the man was banging on that door and finally got in. And Nate said he told you to kiss him, but what he really wanted to do was breath into you...and breath a demon into you!

I posted this dream on a dream board and from the feedback I got I finally made the connection that it was related to what I was doing on the net and I needed to get away from that board and that man. It was a warning dream. So I left it. These are the type of connections I find (sometimes) with his nightmares. If I watch or read something that is bad, though I might not realize it at the time...and he isn't even home...later he will have a nightmare.

Anyway the other night...and this is kind of personal and I am going to be general here on the information (PM for the details if you think you really need to know in order to help) the other night one of my teeth was really hurting ( I have this stupid disgusting gum disease and have already sunk a ton of money in for treatment which did no good and just don't have the money to do more) ...anyway I was only half awake and this terrible awful thought came into my head that I am still trying to figure out if it was really me thinking this, or what...its kind of thrown me into a spiritual tailspin right now. The thought had nothing to do with Nate...lets just be clear on that. :( So for the last few days I have been struggling within myself with this...and of course I don't talk to Nate about such things...so he has no clue what I am thinking or feeling. He is a child and children don't need to know adult business...it just confuses and stresses them.

So on to last night and his nightmare which I can't help but think again has to do with what I am struggling with right now. He woke me up around four in the morning, just scared to death! I haven't seen him this scared from a bad dream in a long time. At that time he didn't want to talk about it but told me about it this morning after I got him up. He said first the dream started out nice...he had gone to his friends house and said they were all home sick (which in reality several of them are sick) and he saw one of the girls in the window so he tapped on the window and she let him in.

Then she said he could come eat lunch with them at the office (they are homeschooled and both mom and dad work at the office..he is an eye dr. and so they talk about the office alot, plus Nate has been there too). He said in this dream she could drive...so they got in their van and she started to drive him to the office...then he said everything went blank. Next thing he knew he was home...I had gone into his bedroom and then I started screaming. He ran in to see was wrong and said I was doing weird things with my hands...shaking them up and down. He said a demon had poured water on my head...and it was some how really hurting me. Then the demon started to come after him and he ran. I asked him if he could see the demon and he said no, just saw an area in the room shimmering so knew it was there. (be mindful almost all his nightmares are about demons which he sometimes sees and sometimes doesn't see...rarely does he ever have a nightmare that doesn't include a demon).

And that was all there was too it. Now how it might be connected to me and my struggle right now I don't know and maybe I am wrong on that...I don't know. Yesertday Nate spent most of the day outside with a friend sleding and watched very little TV and what he did watch was just kid shows...nothing spooky or scarey at all.

It seems like if I don't stay on this certain 'path' everyday...do my bible studies, stay in prayer, and just stay on this path, then he is fine, no bad dreams. But if I read, watch, or talk about anything that is off this 'path', he has any nightmares! The thing is I don't always realize when something is 'off the path' like with that board and that man. I thought some of the stuff he had on his board was pretty extreme, sure, but I didn't realize there was actually some occult connections to it until later...right now I can't remember if I discovered that before Nate had that nightmare or afterwards when I posted his dream and was waiting on feedback to it.

All I know is Nate has had it with these nightmares...he is worn down by them...he thinks a real demon is after him or in him...:( he was about in tears this morning....he wants the nightmares to stop. I can't say I blame him...but I don't know how to stop them! I try rebuking them before I go to sleep so he won't have any, but that doesn't seem to always work. We pray for him to not have any...nothing really seems to stop them totally. I told him I would post on here for help...cause I don't know what to do. I told him no demons could get inside of him as a believer and we are protected from these sorts of spiritual attacks ...if I knew how to do that on these nightmares...that is what I don't know.

I have told him to rebuke this in the Name of Jesus, but he says he forgets, gets too scared or the few times he was able to do it in a dream, nothing happened. Now I have had people JUMP me ...just blast me for Nate not being able to rebuke in his dreams! They say things like, 'well my daughter can do that and has been since she was four!' or something all high and mighty like that! Do NOT do that to me...ok...don't even go there...ok? I need kind and gentle replies, not cutting ones, and certainly not the 'if my child can do it so can yours' either...not all children are the same. Sorry for sounding defensive on here...as you can see I have tried to get help for Nate on this before and the response was just cristism and put downs..certainly nothing that helped and I can be a little defensive when I see my child suffering...ok...

So I am hoping someone here has some ideas on this. My sister said her children (one the same age as Nate) have never had a bad dream in their life. Other parents say they notice when their kids do they can usually connect it to playing too much video games or watching some show on TV. With Nate, I just don't find that kind of connection. I really think its more spiritually related. He was too scared to go in his room this morning to get dressed...I had to go in there with him so he could get his clothes then he got dressed in the living room Because of a terrible nightmare about the basement a couple of years ago, he will no longer go down their alone either. He is embarassed by his fears too...if he has been playing downstairs with his friends and they come up and he discovers he forgot a toy or his shoes, he will talk one of his friends into going downstairs with him, without telling them why he wants them to go with him. He cannot get past the fear...:(

Also just so you know... (the only other thing we haven't gotten past due to his dad besides the nightmares) Nate won't sleep in his own bedroom and hasn't since he was little. His stupid dad...for whatever reason, told Nate when he was very young, to never sleep in his own room or a bad man would break in the windown and get him and kill him. :( For years Nate slept with me...partly due to the numberous nightmares he would have a night, being sick alot with allergy related illnesses, but also for that security. Then he got too big and now sleeps on a mat on the floor in my room. I don't make him sleep there...he wants too. I would be thrilled if he would sleep in his own room! He has tried, but the anxiety and fear gets to him.

Now its like this house is getting smaller and smaller for him all the time...fear keeping him from certain rooms. He used to at least spent time alone in his room watching TV, playing, whatever, which I thought would help him overcome his fear of it...but now this stupid nightmare is probably going to keep him from wanting to be in there at all. :cry:

Thanks for any help.

God bless
Julie

daughter
Jan 16th 2007, 06:24 PM
Oh Julie, I am so sorry to read about Nate's suffering. To me it sounds like he is a very spiritual child, not yet mature enough to deal with some of the things he can perceive. He is being tested, sure, and with God's grace will grow into a very strong man of faith. But now, he's just a child and it sounds like his father's sins are haunting him. I don't know much about you, other than the fact that you are a Christian, and you obviously adore Nate - and it is obvious from your description of Nate's dreams that he is spiritually connected with you, and in at least one way his dreams have saved you from some serious trouble. So I think partly these dreams are there for a reason - Nate has a talent.

However it is very difficult for him now, and very difficult for you.

Has anyone offered deliverance for Nathan, as it seems his father left him with all sorts of problems. I don't know what to suggest, other than prayer (which you are obviously doing) and asking God to reveal the purpose for your son's suffering.

I believe that he will grow beyond this into a strong man - but it must be hard for you.

Do you live in an old house, by any chance? Has occult activity taken place in it anywhere?

PM me if you want to share anymore details. I don't feel competent to say much on this without more knowledge - other than I am a mother myself, and I know how awful you must feel for your son.

My son and I will be praying for Nate.

Ninna
Jan 16th 2007, 06:38 PM
Moonglow, I am praying for Nate and for you.:hug:

For everyone, this is a sensitive topic so please do not derail or turn this into a debate thread....if you can offer help, please do so....

SammeyDW
Jan 16th 2007, 06:43 PM
I'm not an expert in this field by anyone's standard.
However I can't help but wonder what is Nate's walk with the Lord?
Does he have a everyday 'path' like you do?
Because if he doesn't and he is like daughter suggested a very spiritual child.
Then he maybe unknowingly leaving himself open to attack from the enemy.
I'm not attacking / criticizing you or Nate and I'm sorry if it sounds like that,
That is not my intention.
I am only mentioning this because I used to have regular nightmares myself until I
started to study the Bible, and pray regularly.
And I wonder if that is what Nate needs to start to do,
If he isn't already.

Regardless ,
I will stand with:pray: you and Nate:pray: in prayer.

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 06:55 PM
Oh Julie, I am so sorry to read about Nate's suffering. To me it sounds like he is a very spiritual child, not yet mature enough to deal with some of the things he can perceive. He is being tested, sure, and with God's grace will grow into a very strong man of faith. But now, he's just a child and it sounds like his father's sins are haunting him. I don't know much about you, other than the fact that you are a Christian, and you obviously adore Nate - and it is obvious from your description of Nate's dreams that he is spiritually connected with you, and in at least one way his dreams have saved you from some serious trouble. So I think partly these dreams are there for a reason - Nate has a talent.

However it is very difficult for him now, and very difficult for you.

Has anyone offered deliverance for Nathan, as it seems his father left him with all sorts of problems. I don't know what to suggest, other than prayer (which you are obviously doing) and asking God to reveal the purpose for your son's suffering.

I believe that he will grow beyond this into a strong man - but it must be hard for you.

Do you live in an old house, by any chance? Has occult activity taken place in it anywhere?

PM me if you want to share anymore details. I don't feel competent to say much on this without more knowledge - other than I am a mother myself, and I know how awful you must feel for your son.

My son and I will be praying for Nate.

Thanks daughter...

Actually we moved from the house that was nearly a 100 yrs old where the nightmares first started...though they started after Nate had been on visitation with his dad..:( Nate wasn't even three when his dad decided to take him to the mall for trick or treating on Halloween and the nightmares Nate had then he kept saying 'witch, witch'...so I asked his dad about it and he claims (though keep in mind he lied alot) that they saw some teenagers there with very realistic halloween costums on and one was dressed like a witch and it scared Nate. I thought it was stupid taking him up there to start with because ex knew how realistic some of those people get with their costums. Ex exposed Nate to alot of things when he was very young he had no business doing...but he never listened to me and CPS wouldn't do anything about it unless Nate was half dead or something...:mad:

Now Nate was too little to confirm this was indeed what happened at the mall...sometimes I really wonder (fear) that ex was into something really bad...because when Nate was four or five one time...he was taking a bath and we were just talking about God and Jesus...I do that alot just as part of a conversation, plus Nate always has questions. Then suddenly (and I still cry retelling this. I don't think I will ever get where I don't cry over this) Nate started just sobbing and said Jesus could never come into his heart because he had satan inside of him, that he belonged to satan. :cry: And his crying turned into the most heart breaking sobbing I ever heard from any child. The pain was very deep...it was so awful to hear a little child not just say this but believe it!

Now where in the world he got this idea I can only guess came from ex. I wasn't sitting around watching satan movies ...ex didn't care what he watched in front of Nate, but ex never (that I saw) watched any movies like that...even if he did, why would Nate get the idea he personally belonged to satan? I think someone put this idea into his head, but who or why, I don't know.

It just makes me think of the things I have read about satanism...(and heard about them on the Christian radio station) but alot of people say those satan groups aren't true and no children are involved like that...so I don't know what to think or what is true or what isn't true on that stuff. All I know is this little child was convinced he belonged to satan! I want to know why...I don't know if that is why he is so haunted by these dreams or what...

At the time, with him crying so hard like that I got him out of the tub and wrapped him up in a big warm towel and put him in my lap and held him...he was crying so hard! I cried with him. Then I carried him and put him on my bed and got him something to drink, trying to get him to calm down, and I kept telling him that no one belonged to satan. And that Jesus was much much stronger then satan. I told him this over and over and over again.

Over the years he has not ever brought it up again and I don't think even remembers. But I know he struggles spiritually and he struggles to make that connection with God. About all I know, is I am confused and I don't know what is going on or what to do. When we moved to this house, actually just before we moved here I started the spiritual warfare after 'cleaning house' there of my junk...anything that offended God I got rid of. I was really hoping once we moved to a new house the old fears would be gone...but they aren't...they are better though...this house isn't nearly as old as the other and I don't think its the house itself anyway. I just try to make sure nothing is brought in here that shouldn't be here though...

Since moving here and doing spiritual warfare Nate has made huge progress in his behavior and his anxieties. At one point he was so bad off emotionally that I had to homeschool him. And I couldn't be out of his sight...he had to know where I was every second or he would go into a panic. His rages have stopped and while he still likes to keep tabs on me, at least now he actually looks for me rather then just panicity and screaming for me...and he was able to go back to school and is successful in many areas now he wasn't before. He is just stuck with these terrible nightmares and fear of his of any rooms related to those nightmares. :(

God bless

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 07:01 PM
I'm not an expert in this field by anyone's standard.
However I can't help but wonder what is Nate's walk with the Lord?
Does he have a everyday 'path' like you do?
Because if he doesn't and he is like daughter suggested a very spiritual child.
Then he maybe unknowingly leaving himself open to attack from the enemy.
I'm not attacking / criticizing you or Nate and I'm sorry if it sounds like that,
That is not my intention.
I am only mentioning this because I used to have regular nightmares myself until I
started to study the Bible, and pray regularly.
And I wonder if that is what Nate needs to start to do,
If he isn't already.

Regardless ,
I will stand with:pray: you and Nate:pray: in prayer.

No you are fine on asking that. I just posted that...as I said, Nate struggles with his faith with God in finding that connection. Because of his learning disablity...its hard enough to get him to sit down and read a book from school let alone the bible. We do have our bible discussions and vebually he knows alot and asks alot! He learns more by asking and me answering....as soon as I start trying to read a verse to him, I see his focus go off...the lanuage of the bible isn't excatly the same as it is in regular books...he is 'lost' when I read a verse to him...not understanding. But if I just tell him about it or paraphrase, then he understands. He also goes to AWANA with his grandma once a week and to our church of course. Other then that, I don't know what else to tell you. He is a typical boy that he wants to be out physically doing things, not sitting inside reading anything...with his LD delays early on when starting school he has alot of negative feelings and anxieties about reading still...:(

Thanks for your prayers!

God bless

daughter
Jan 16th 2007, 07:11 PM
Oh lord - I hate to say this, but it seems to me that his father was into something very bad.

You are right, Jesus Christ is much stronger than satan - and I am convinced that your little boy is safe in His real father's arms.

But as for your ex... I don't know what he did, but somehow he terrified that little boy.

Let Nathan know that there are people praying for his protection in England, and all over the world. When he is asleep, someone on this board is awake, and praying for him. I'm going to get everyone at my church to pray for him and you as well, and I am going to look in scripture to find something that can help him feel secure.

You need to pray that all his forgotten sufferings and anguishes will be healed, and that any negative power his father still has over him will be erased.

And I am going to be praying for him as though he was my own son, and my own son's brother. Because he is a child of God, and a little brother in Christ, and I feel so moved for him.

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 07:25 PM
Oh lord - I hate to say this, but it seems to me that his father was into something very bad.

You are right, Jesus Christ is much stronger than satan - and I am convinced that your little boy is safe in His real father's arms.

But as for your ex... I don't know what he did, but somehow he terrified that little boy.

Let Nathan know that there are people praying for his protection in England, and all over the world. When he is asleep, someone on this board is awake, and praying for him. I'm going to get everyone at my church to pray for him and you as well, and I am going to look in scripture to find something that can help him feel secure.

You need to pray that all his forgotten sufferings and anguishes will be healed, and that any negative power his father still has over him will be erased.

And I am going to be praying for him as though he was my own son, and my own son's brother. Because he is a child of God, and a little brother in Christ, and I feel so moved for him.

Thank you so much! I know the power of pray in spiritual warfare is one of the most powerful things we can do!

Yes Nate went through some terrible things because of his dad...it would take a book to list what I do know for sure that he told me himself...though much of it he has forgotten now.

When Nate was still little, he used to make traps outside all the time to 'catch bad guys' with...and do experiments in the kitchen mixing different things together to 'posion the bad people' or the 'bad man'...at that time I didn't know what his dad had told him about a bad man getting him if he slept in his own room. I didn't know Nate was trying to fight off this fear his dad had put in him. I still don't know why his dad told him that. His dad would get drunk and say such awful things and then not remember what he said...so who knows why he said that...he might not even know why.

He also would leave Nate at home alone (when Nate was at his house visiting), for how long I don't know. I don't know if it was just a few minutes or hours or what...but this is why Nate would panic if he couldn't find me...he thought I had left him. :cry: I had to tell him over and over again, I would never leave him...never just take off and leave him like that. I also explained there were laws against parents just leaving their kids home alone too. Nate was four and under when all of this went on, before his dad was sent to jail. So yes, image the fear it put in him. :( Children at this age believe what their parents tell them and are more deeply affected by their behavior too.

Maybe this is why Nate is so strongly connected to me...I don't know...as much fear as his dad put in him, Nate 'lost' his dad to prison and hasn't seen him since (his therapist say it would be too emotionally damaging for him to see his dad). The fear of my disappearing or 'going away' maybe has caused him to get overly connected to me somehow.

When he had this one dream a few weeks ago...neither Nate or I had been sleeping well...alot of problems getting to sleep and staying asleep while he was on Christmas break. One night I woke up and was having alot of anxiety attacks...had no idea why either but I was pretty mad about it and mad at the loss of sleep because I had so much to do the next day. Nate had a nightmare that night...he said it was like dreaming with his eyes open. He saw a demon jumping around the bedroom on the funiture, going from one to another to another. He said it clearly and described it very well in detail too. He said he just watched it for awhile. Then he woke up enough to get up and tell me he had a bad dream...he usually gets in bed with me when he is scared like that. I thought it was odd he was seeing this demon while I was having anxiety attacks and not sleeping! Its all so frustrating though...we both just want to have a peaceful nights sleep every night...not a few nights then problems for a night or two, then a few nights of good sleep then problems again...I hate it. I know he hates it more. :(

God bless

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 16th 2007, 09:24 PM
moonglow,

i can't think of anything much, but wonder if Nate ever had any sort of counseling for all the stuff he went through.
Christian counseling maybe ?

Then the other thing that strikes me is this: you say you rebuke demons and bad things.... do you pray however and ask for a shield of protection that no demon or evil spirit can enter your property/house ?

Sounds to me you have partial control through God, but there's still a stronghold in your life somewhere.

I'm not sure i'd connect any of it 100% to what you do or not, but if you believe it has to do with your path, then like it was suggested before, have Nate on the same path.

Another thing that comes to mind is the neighbor issue, one the woman with the leaves, and the vulgar creep across the street. Is it possible your resentment and anger has a hold on you ? This could be a stronghold for evil spirits.....

Sorry i can't think of anything else.

Shalom to you and Nate.

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 09:40 PM
Yes Nate's been in therapy since he was three due to the voilent rages he was having...trying to figure out why you know. He has been all these years...but most of the therapist have been quakes as far as I am concerned and even the one we have now...while he is the best we can get here, only focuses on how Nate is doing at any given time in the present and refuses to discuss the past or what Nate went through...when I bring up thing I am waved off...now supposely if Nate were to bring it up, it would have to be discussed but Nate won't talk to any of them. He has only told me (and maybe a little to his grandma) about his dad and what happened. It took Nate a long, long time after his dad was put in jail to even feel safe enough to start telling me things...then it was just a little here and there. And see this was years ago...he has forgotten much of it now or even why he has some of the fears he has. The whole thing really upset me back then too because I felt it needed to be brought out as to why Nate did what he did because of something his dad did...but I couldn't get any therapist to address this...they all wanted to focus on just trying to change his current behavior (which then were the rages)

This is why I say the medication didn't help, therapy didn't help..no behavior mod helped..only the spiritual warfare helped.

As far as the guy across the street, Nate was having nightmares years before we even moved to this house and they were worse at the old house (meaning worse as in more often). I do pray for the Lord to put a hedge of protection around our property and home and us and to bind away any evil spirits...but frankly I get tired of praying this day after day after day and I start forgetting...when I forget for a few days, he has a nightmare. :( I don't understand why I have to keep saying the same prayers over and over and over for years either...I get frustrated with that. The Lord clearly knows what is going on and what we need, so I don't know why I would have to keep asking everyday for protection...seems like once would be enough. But then maybe that hasn't a thing to do with it.....I don't know. There have been times I have prayed that and Nate has still had a nightmares...this is why I feel so stuck...and don't know what else to do. Thanks for your prayers.

God bless

Vickilynn
Jan 16th 2007, 10:29 PM
Shalom Julie,

First off, I truly sympathize with all you and Nate are going through, I would be frustrated too.

Secondly, you ask some excellent questions, but I don't know if anyone but G-d has the answers. I'm not trying to be flippant, but I'm saying that seeking the L-rd for Nate'a particular problem would be the only way I know to deal with it other than what you're doing.

Have you gone to your church elders or pastor and asked them about this?

I am not an expert in these things, but I have seen some things.

Some thoughts come to mind about some of the issues you've raised.

~Demons are real. Demonic activity is real.

~Nate's dad put fear into him, but there also could have been demonic activity (you said he was mentally ill).

~I also agree that Nate could have spiritual gifts (such as discernment) that he might misinterpret as scary dreams.

As to why you have to pray repeatedly for protection, yes, I do believe it has a LOT to do with the situation. G-d answers prayer. Yes, I know that Nate sometimes still gets nightmares even after you pray, but still G-d is in charge. I don't know why they persist, but I do know that:
nightly praying for protection, rebuking the demons and casting them away *out loud* and praying for Nate, offering him on the altar before the L-rd is very important. And yes, you should do it several times a day if you remember.

In addition I would suggest:
Continue to do spiritual warfare - often.
Continue to stay immersed in the Word and prayer, especially WITH Nate and outloud.
Continue to pray for protection.
Continue to calm his fears, whatever that takes - sleeping in your room, holding him, reading the Word to him.
Call in an elder to pray over your house and Nate.
Have the church and all your spiritual family hold Nate up before the L-rd (as well as you).
Continue to lay yourself before G-d, depending on Him to get you through each day, giving Him praise.

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 16th 2007, 11:02 PM
Moonglow,

i know what you mean about daily prayers, but it;s not that God doesn't know, but being in touch with Him is what matters. Praying to Him daily is being in touch on a different level. It acknowledges our need of Him everytime, and i think this is part of the deal.
You yourself said you noticed that if you forget a few days things get worse.
Prayers clearly create a barrier, and thus it's something i suppose we need to endure to the end.

Remember Daniel, he prayed three times every day. I think it's a great example of something we all should do. Try tying your prayers in with daily activity: In the AM upon rising, fopr a safe day and to be guided from any and all eveil, and to be led into righteousness at all hours of the day, and thanking God for another day alive, and for protection.

Lunch: prayers for the blessings bestowed, and needs to be met. Again asking God to lead you both on the righteous path for the remainder of the day, and for protection.

At bedtime: Thanking God for the day, asking for peace and protection during the night, and for His will to be done in all ways.

You may use this example and add to as needed, but it's just supposed to be a frame to build your prayer time on.

Time taken: about 25 minutes max a day. Considering there's 24 hours you gave God a tenth of that time.

Shalom

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 11:31 PM
Shalom Julie,

First off, I truly sympathize with all you and Nate are going through, I would be frustrated too.

Secondly, you ask some excellent questions, but I don't know if anyone but G-d has the answers. I'm not trying to be flippant, but I'm saying that seeking the L-rd for Nate'a particular problem would be the only way I know to deal with it other than what you're doing.

Have you gone to your church elders or pastor and asked them about this?

I am not an expert in these things, but I have seen some things.

Some thoughts come to mind about some of the issues you've raised.

~Demons are real. Demonic activity is real.

~Nate's dad put fear into him, but there also could have been demonic activity (you said he was mentally ill).

~I also agree that Nate could have spiritual gifts (such as discernment) that he might misinterpret as scary dreams.

As to why you have to pray repeatedly for protection, yes, I do believe it has a LOT to do with the situation. G-d answers prayer. Yes, I know that Nate sometimes still gets nightmares even after you pray, but still G-d is in charge. I don't know why they persist, but I do know that:
nightly praying for protection, rebuking the demons and casting them away *out loud* and praying for Nate, offering him on the altar before the L-rd is very important. And yes, you should do it several times a day if you remember.

In addition I would suggest:
Continue to do spiritual warfare - often.
Continue to stay immersed in the Word and prayer, especially WITH Nate and outloud.
Continue to pray for protection.
Continue to calm his fears, whatever that takes - sleeping in your room, holding him, reading the Word to him.
Call in an elder to pray over your house and Nate.
Have the church and all your spiritual family hold Nate up before the L-rd (as well as you).
Continue to lay yourself before G-d, depending on Him to get you through each day, giving Him praise.

Thanks for the words of encouragment. (I am kind of tired and cranky today...Nate wiggles alot when he sleep with me and keeps us both awake). I am very aware that demon activity is real...I doubted it until I saw how he would calm down within a minute after I would rebuke whatever was bothering him when he was still raging. It was amazing! The most amazing thing I ever saw! I had 'no faith' in what I was doing, I felt pretty silly doing it, but I was desperate. It wasn't me that this worked though, but through my faith in Jesus and He did it! I always rebuke in His Name of course. Its His Name that works...not me.

The elders praying over Nate...that won't happen. Most of the people in our church have no clue about this sort of thing..I have talked to the pastor about it before...he prayed with me about it but that was all. They don't know what to do...second Nate would freak out...it would all become 'too real' to him and I don't think he could handle it emotionally. Right now, for him, they are just bad dreams. For him, as young as he is, they need to stay just dreams. Nate is emotionally fragile still in many ways...while he has overcome so much, he still has the deep rooted fears to deal with. The times I have gently talked to him about what the bible says about this sort of thing...its backfired and made his fears worse...:( So even if the church would do this (or had a clue on it) it would really freak Nate out...he would start looking for 'demons' in the daytime if you know what I mean.

He already mentioned hearing voices twice now after I tried to explain some of this to him (bibically)...now I don't know how much of that is fear/anxiety based due to his imagation ...or how much is real. But if he starts black sliding to the hearing voices and seeing things again...I don't even want to think about that. There is mental illness that goes back generations in his dad's family. His dad is mentally messed up by extreme abuse he went through as a child and doing crack and heavy drinking for many, many years. Coke will change the chemcial makeup of the brain and it won't change back...he would get very paranoide...:(

Everyone is his family is messed up...all either flat out mentally ill or got heavy into drugs and drinking...ALL either abandoned their children or they were taken by the state due to severe neglect and abuse...as I said, this goes back generation...which I didn't know until after ex was put in prison.

On my side of the family I have two cousins and one aunt that have scinophrenia...sorry I can't spell it. The aunt is like a half aunt...her dad was our blood related grandpa, but a different grandma...though to us she was the only grandma we knew on that side of the family. The other two cousins were from one of my dad's brothers...both extremely severe sciophrenic. So the possiblity of a real mental illness is there (though I know the Lord can heal anything including this).

I can't afford to do anything that draws alot of attention to Nate on this...do you understand? He can't handle it. It seems like as it is so many times I am kicking myself for doing the wrong thing...or saying the wrong thing, that I think somehow made it worse for him. Makes me feel like the world's worse mom too...:cry: Like one time years ago I was out garage saling and someone was selling these old Children's bible's with alot of pictures in them. I had a baby bible for Nate which was extremely simple...well he had gotten older so I thought this would be good bibles for him.

So here I was so happy to bring him these two children's bibles. We sat down and were looking at the pictures and I was telling him the stories behind the pictures (they really were not written for children, and hard to read actually, which I didn't realize when I got them). Well lo and behold, there is this picture of Jesus being tempted by satan...satan painting all red with a long pointed tail and a pitch fork in his hand...:mad: I tried to flip the page before Nate saw it...but it was too late. He fixated right on that picture of satan...:cry: Just adding fuel to the fire...of course he is convinced this is how satan looks now though I have read scriptures that say otherwise. But its just always stuff like this you know...I walk right into things it seems...good intentions...bad results. :cry:

Even with the rebuking...I went to another room (but where I could still keep an eye on him) and would whisper it...Nate was already obessed with 'killing everyone and going to hell to help the devil kill people' that is the sort of stuff he would say when he was raging. Horrible things. If I tried to pray outloud he would physically attack me...yes it was extreme and just crazy stuff!

Nate is on medication...a low dose of Buspar for anxiety...and clondine for his ADHD and allergy medication. All of the medication for stopping hearing voices and rages are dangerous and have dangerous side effects...we don't want to go back to that. I don't think we will...not on this stuff. As long as I keep thing calm around here. This is why I have to deal with this alone. Not too mention how would Nate's therapist reacte if Nate goes...some men from church came in and prayed for demons to leave me alone! CPS wouldn't like that...not one bit. They would see me as causing these problems in him and remove him from the home and put him in foster care where he would be totally tramized. So I have to handle this on my own and quietly...like I always have. But sometime I feel like this cross is crushing me to death. :cry:

moonglow
Jan 16th 2007, 11:35 PM
Moonglow,

i know what you mean about daily prayers, but it;s not that God doesn't know, but being in touch with Him is what matters. Praying to Him daily is being in touch on a different level. It acknowledges our need of Him everytime, and i think this is part of the deal.
You yourself said you noticed that if you forget a few days things get worse.
Prayers clearly create a barrier, and thus it's something i suppose we need to endure to the end.

Remember Daniel, he prayed three times every day. I think it's a great example of something we all should do. Try tying your prayers in with daily activity: In the AM upon rising, fopr a safe day and to be guided from any and all eveil, and to be led into righteousness at all hours of the day, and thanking God for another day alive, and for protection.

Lunch: prayers for the blessings bestowed, and needs to be met. Again asking God to lead you both on the righteous path for the remainder of the day, and for protection.

At bedtime: Thanking God for the day, asking for peace and protection during the night, and for His will to be done in all ways.

You may use this example and add to as needed, but it's just supposed to be a frame to build your prayer time on.

Time taken: about 25 minutes max a day. Considering there's 24 hours you gave God a tenth of that time.

Shalom

Good idea.

Oh I talked to God all day long! He is never forgotten...its just I forget about praying for the pray of protection...:B I have a rotten memory...I do well for awhile then forget that one prayer for a few days...:( Just makes me mad. But as far as connecting with God...that's a constant thing....even in my sleep I dream verses and dream of Him and talking to Him...I wish Nate would have dreams like that...I think it would help him so much!

Gotta get supper...thanks all...:)

God bless

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 17th 2007, 03:05 AM
Well moonglow,
how about putting some post it notes where you'd be reminded ?

One on the alarm clock for the morning, one on the fridge or stove for lunch, and one on the bathroom mirrir for bedtime ?

have Nate remind you too, put him in charge of the prayer routine if he has a better memory. If not at least make it a joint effort.

Pastor Dennis
Jan 17th 2007, 05:27 AM
Hi Julie,
I'm very truly so concerned for Nate and for you in this matter.
Be assured that I know how real the forces of demonic beings is - but I also know that God is not 'powerful' - No! He is ALL-POWERFUL!
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You have been given some great advice already in this thread and you yourself have told about good and valuable actions you've taken. At the moment I've only a couple of things I would add.
You have mentioned your diligence in prayer. May I suggest something specific in this regard. Include a very specific prayer of submission. Along the following lines -
Jesus, I make you Lord over my spirit. There will be no other gods in my life.
Jesus I make you Lord over my mind, and my belief systems.
Jesus I make you Lord over my emotions, and my feelings.
Jesus I make you Lord over my body - it will only be used for Godly purposes.
Jesus I make you Lord over my will, my choices.
You get the idea? Pray a prayer along those lines at the start and at the end of every day.

Then there are generational issues. This has to do with familiar spirits which follow the family. They may have followed Nate from his father. Have you considered that real possibilty of a demonic oppression (not possession) having come down upon Nate from his father? The way to deal with this is a bit different. It involves confessing all known sins of the family - in Nate's case (and perhaps even for you) confessing to God the sins of Nate's father. To have those sins cut off authoritatively in the Name of Jesus... setting the Cross of Christ between Nate and yourself and the past sins/familiar spirits. If you wish I could fill you in on a heap more on the subject but this brings me to my last point for now.
I hear what you say about your own church not ministering in the area of deliverance. But why don't you seek out a church that DOES minister in this area and make an appintment to go and see the pastor/minister? Trying to help you in the difficult area of deliverance from demonic manifestations and attacks is not easy. It's much better hands-on! If you could speak to some-one in ministry competent through the gifting of God in this area of healing, that would be great. That person should easily recognise the sensitivity needed as regards Nate....

moonglow
Jan 17th 2007, 02:57 PM
Well moonglow,
how about putting some post it notes where you'd be reminded ?

One on the alarm clock for the morning, one on the fridge or stove for lunch, and one on the bathroom mirrir for bedtime ?

have Nate remind you too, put him in charge of the prayer routine if he has a better memory. If not at least make it a joint effort.

I should probably do that.....or just start making it part of our regular bedtime prayers. Then I wouldn't forget. I have just kept that prayer to myself because I was concerned about it just causing more fear in Nate...but maybe it will help comfort him now instead of feeling so fearful. He was very fearful last night and couldn't sleep...wanted to wait until I went to bed and then he ended up sleeping with me...so didn't get to sleep until an hour after his normal bed time. But he slept ok...he said he woke up alot (so did I) but went right back to sleep and no bad dreams...so that is good.

Thanks for the help. :)

God bless

moonglow
Jan 17th 2007, 04:02 PM
Hi Julie,
I'm very truly so concerned for Nate and for you in this matter.
Be assured that I know how real the forces of demonic beings is - but I also know that God is not 'powerful' - No! He is ALL-POWERFUL!
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You have been given some great advice already in this thread and you yourself have told about good and valuable actions you've taken. At the moment I've only a couple of things I would add.
You have mentioned your diligence in prayer. May I suggest something specific in this regard. Include a very specific prayer of submission. Along the following lines -
Jesus, I make you Lord over my spirit. There will be no other gods in my life.
Jesus I make you Lord over my mind, and my belief systems.
Jesus I make you Lord over my emotions, and my feelings.
Jesus I make you Lord over my body - it will only be used for Godly purposes.
Jesus I make you Lord over my will, my choices.
You get the idea? Pray a prayer along those lines at the start and at the end of every day.

Then there are generational issues. This has to do with familiar spirits which follow the family. They may have followed Nate from his father. Have you considered that real possibilty of a demonic oppression (not possession) having come down upon Nate from his father?

Oh yes I have...I know its oppression not possession...and I have studied the generational curses in the bible, but its confusing to me because later in the bible it says each individual will be held accountable for their sins and no longer carried on down. But I have prayed about it anyway...followed certain set prayers on that, done my own, but things haven't improved as far as the nightmares and his other fears I mentioned on here. So I don't know what I am doing wrong here. His dad was a very fearful person actually...he feared death terribly and was convinced every other week he was dying from some terrible disease. He had an uncle suddenly die from a brain tumor he didn't even know he had, so then he was convinced he had a brain tumor.

The next week it would be cancer, the next he was having a heart attack. He had panic attacks and would be convinced he was having a heart attack and would call 911 go to the ER and run up a huge medical bills that we didn't have the money for...about all they found was an irregural heartbeat and put him on a med for that thinking that was causing his anxiety attacks. It did scare him enough to stop the drugs he had been doing (as far as I know anyway) but didn't stop his drinking...:( I really think his dad had these panic attacks, and mood swings, drinking...all because of the horrible abuse he went through as a child growing up and never dealt with emotionally. Refused to go to therapy, saying the past was over and didn't affect him...but it clearly did. Because of the abuse by his own dad, he didn't know how to be a good dad to Nate for one thing.

He was always having physical complaints and would go on and on about them and I know Nate picked this kind of stuff up. One time Nate who was probably only four or five at the time came running home, just running like kids do you know. ...ran a half a block then came to sit with me on the porch swing, then noticed his heart was beating really fast. He was all scared something was wrong with his heart...:( I said, no Nate, your heart is suppose to beat fast when you run. I explained all of that too him but still for several years he was worried about his heart...gradually its gotten better but he still overly focuses on any aches or pains he is having...more then I think most kids would. So I am always reassuring him about these things but if it just keeps bothering him I will take him to the doc just to be sure and usually find he pulled or strained a muslce and just needs to take it easy for a few days to give it a chance to heal up.


The way to deal with this is a bit different. It involves confessing all known sins of the family - in Nate's case (and perhaps even for you) confessing to God the sins of Nate's father. To have those sins cut off authoritatively in the Name of Jesus... setting the Cross of Christ between Nate and yourself and the past sins/familiar spirits. If you wish I could fill you in on a heap more on the subject but this brings me to my last point for now.

Yes do explain more please. I have PM's a couple of board members for help on this and prayed how they instructed me on this but the problems doesn't go away. The nightmares and fears..:( I don't know what esle to do.


I hear what you say about your own church not ministering in the area of deliverance. But why don't you seek out a church that DOES minister in this area and make an appintment to go and see the pastor/minister? Trying to help you in the difficult area of deliverance from demonic manifestations and attacks is not easy. It's much better hands-on! If you could speak to some-one in ministry competent through the gifting of God in this area of healing, that would be great. That person should easily recognise the sensitivity needed as regards Nate....

The only church I know of, that we visited for awhile, they tried to help some...they are a charmastic church and I have strong revesations about some of their practices not being biblical. The last thing I want to do is put my trust in a church that isn't really following the bible but making up some of their own stuff and possibly making things worse for Nate. And that is the only church I know of around here that does this sort of thing. Frankly I don't think I can risk putting Nate's well being in the hands of strangers either. Their are too many flakes out there and can actually make things worse in an area like that.

Let me explain it this way...Nate was born with problems...one of those was allergies and unknown food allergies...he was a very hard baby to deal with and to get to sleep because alot of times his stomach hurt because of the forumal he was drinking...before that when I breast fed, I was eating foods he was allergic too. His doc claimed babies didn't have allergies and he was just a 'fussy baby'. I could never get him to sleep until one in the morning then he only slept two hours at a time. I thought I was going to die from exhaustion or go crazy. :( But the dr wouldn't take me seriously about him.

At less then one he started having chronic ear infections...would wake up with a 103 temp in the middle of the night and be crying and crying and his ears hurt so bad. The dr would put him on an antiboic...within a week of finishing them the ear infection would be back. This went on for three months! When I suggested he get ear tubs his dr refused saying it wasn't that bad...:mad: That he needed to have this problem for six months or longer before they would consider ear tubes...she wasn't the one in pain and suffering from this...I seriously doubt she would have torlanted this pain and fever for six months herself! I finally took him to a ear, nose and throat doc who agreed he needed ear tubs and put them in and he didn't get anymore ear infections...

His whole life has been like this...no one listens...he suffers for years before anyone finally helps! His food allergies and airborne allergies weren't finally discovered until he was four because either the drs refused to do the testing or their method of testing was bad...then he had to take allergy shots once a week for years, be in a strict diet to avoid eating the foods he was allergic too...I would spend hours in the grocery store just reading ingrences...spending extra money I didn't have on special foods that didn't have the things in them he couldn't eat. Making trips out of town to buy that food too.

Then in preschool...I was already concerned about him having a learning disablity...and some other problems...so I got him into a early ed screening where yes they found gross and find motor delays and other sensory intregration problems and they worked with him on those things...did an IQ test which was very up and down...some very high scores and some low...a clear sign of a learning disablity. At the time he was in preschool he got an IEP to get the help he needed (for that one year) but then when he got up to a good level on these things they wanted him off the IEP before he started school. When I said to the head shrink that did the IQ testing about it being a warning sign to a learning disablity at first she agreed, then I think realized he would have to keep his IEP meaning it would cost the school money, so quickly did an about face and disagreed and said, he can't have a LD when he hasn't even started school yet! Needless to say I was upset...and ended up spending the next three years trying to get him an IEP so he would get help in school with his LD problems...all thanks to one person. :mad:

I could give many, many more examples like this...and how Nate's self estem suffered because he couldn't keep up in class and how his anxiety levels rose so badly because he couldn't read like the other kids or spell...but how the school had to wait for him to 'fall far enough behind' to really need help....how he learned to hate school. I tried to homeschool him but being a single parent with a LD too and back problems I just wasn't able to teach him anything...:(

And when Nate started having these rages...we were at our old church and I was going to weekly bible study and we did a study on the elders praying over and annointing anyone with sickness or problems..I went to the pastor in private about Nate asking the elders pray over him and annoint him. He said, 'well we just don't do that here...I don't know why, but we don't'. And he prayed with me about Nate but that was it. I got dirty looks from some members, especially from the youth pastor over Nate's behavior...but no offers of help. Later when the new pastor started (the one we have now, but we are split off from that old church) he also didn't know what to do other then to pray for Nate...though he talked about spending time with Nate and doing things with him since he didn't have a dad in his life anymore...he took Nate out one time..and that was it. (I have a feeling his wife didn't like the idea cause he would have to be around me some too).

Nate's whole life has been me fighting tooth and nail to get him the services or help he needs. Help has always been slow in coming and many times not enough. I have been let down time and time and time again in all areas concerning him and have to say the only one I have been able to count on is the Lord. But even there I get so frustrated! Its like I have to know the right words, the right prayers to have anything happen! And I don't get that. The Lord and I are wrestling badly right now...and yes I know that isn't going to help the situation...but its not the first time we have wrestled over things and I am sure it won't be the last. I am just so tired of trying to figure out what He wants.

Now there are some good things here...don't want it to all sounds so negative. I prayed on my face sobbing to the Lord for years to help with Nate and his behavior and all his problems...He finally lead me to this board, in which I did learn about spiritual warfare and how to 'clean house' and rebuke in the Name of Jesus. It was the most amazing thing I ever saw! I probably wouldn't believe it if it only worked a few times, but it worked over and over and over again! And right in front of my eyes I would see the rage in Nate's eyes just leave...and a calmness come to him...then he would be himself again. Besides the rages stopping, he stopped having problems with food allergies and dyes. Though he still has the airborne allergies as I do. And with the help, the IEP in school and getting an LD teacher to work one on one with him in his reading and spelling he is on grade level now..:) He was falling so far behind! Last year he jumped two grade levels on his reading. :) Though he still hates reading at home...suppose to read 20 minutes a day and rarely does that...but will read in school.

And I will say the Lord has given us many blessings in many other areas of our life too. Nate isn't sick all the time from allergy related illnesses. We were able to move out of a home in a high crime, drug area and into a better area (with the exception on the neighbor across the street problem...so no its not perfect but generally I don't worry about a meth house blowing up next to us like in the old neighborhood). And we have food, shelter and transportation..none of its perfect...got a leak in the basement right now and the car is just werid...but its better then watching Nate strave to death in a third world country mud hut while I die of AIDS or something like so many are in Africa. So I DO count my blessings!

Sorry for the rambling...I guess I have alot to get out.

In talking to Nate last night about his nightmares he said he just gets too scared in them to call out to Jesus..and that whatever it is gags him so he can't talk...he never mentioned that before. He said his faith in God was stronger then I realized though, that he talks to God all throughout the day and if he has a bad thought he tells God he is sorry. And that he does believe in God and does love Him. That made me feel alot better. I had been telling him his faith in God is what will fight against these things...but he feels so helpless in the nightmares...too frightened. He also said that sometimes he sees things when he is awake...he sees what he thinks are angels..he sees little rainbow colored shaped dancing around a room, then they will fade away. And sometimes he sees bad things...he said he saw footprints at a playground once...one was a red foot print the other green and he followed them but then the disappeared. Nate has told me as far back as I can remember of seeing odd things like this...I don't know what to make of them. These aren't dreams. I don't tell his dr that does his meds though...she would want him back on one of those heavy duty meds to stop them...they are too dangerous and can have permanent side effects (damage organs and even the brain in some cases) and he function just fine...so why drug him up?

I just want someone to tell us what is going on...that's all I want and for the nightmare for him to stop. For the fear to stop.

God bless

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 17th 2007, 07:46 PM
Moonglow, with Nate's Faith being stronger than you thought, maybe it would be good to have him start reading much more scripture, verses he could use as a weapon against the things that scare him ?

Then after that you can slowly intorduce him to rebuking things on his own quietly and calmly like you did ?

Just some thoughts... and if this happens to intensify the trouble, i'd take that as a sign of being on the right track. But it might be better now, at this age than later when he's older, and more in danger as he gets more independent and into his teen defiance stuff.

Anyway, it's just up for consideration and for you to decide.

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 12:42 AM
Moonglow, with Nate's Faith being stronger than you thought, maybe it would be good to have him start reading much more scripture, verses he could use as a weapon against the things that scare him ?

Then after that you can slowly intorduce him to rebuking things on his own quietly and calmly like you did ?

Just some thoughts... and if this happens to intensify the trouble, i'd take that as a sign of being on the right track. But it might be better now, at this age than later when he's older, and more in danger as he gets more independent and into his teen defiance stuff.

Anyway, it's just up for consideration and for you to decide.

Nate knows some...he has a hard time with memorizing verses because of his LD...I can parpharse them off the top of my head but when I was his age I couldn't even remember my own address, or phone number...but I did learn the Lord's pray by heart and he knows that one, and I learned Psalms 23 too...though as a child I thought that one was a little scarey. But your post did remind me that I talked to him last night about what the bible says about putting on the whole armor of God...and I was surprised, he knew excatly what I was talking about! He does learn alot in AWANA and he went through a bapistim class at church too, plus I do read scriptures to him though I try to keep it short so he doesn't fog out on it. I told him in these dreams he needed to fight back...he just said he was too scared. I said eventually you will get tired of being scared and just get angry...I said, you need to get angry. I told him about some terrible nightmares I went through when he was little...but while I was being terrorized in them by this huge black thing, I guess I didn't think directly of it being a demon...though I knew it was evil.

I told him I did things to help me not be scared when I went to sleep...I would leave my bedside light on and the TV on really low...so if I had that nightmare I didn't wake up to it being totally dark. In my dreams I would think I was awake and try to turn on lights and none of the lights would work causing me more fear, then I would hear something coming down the stairs to get me...sheer terror those dreams were! Night after night after night. And the thing was just blacker then the blackness around me...but as I told Nate finally one night I was just furious with this thing...and in my dream I just screamed the Lord's prayer at it...and it never came back again. So maybe that gave him some ideas...I know how powerless one can feel in a nightmare...that is why I would try to wake myself up from them only to think I was awake but actually still dreaming.

Right now he is at AWANA to by the way...I had intended on getting back on here last night after I got him to bed, but he was too scared to sleep and I was so tired...so just went ahead and went to bed too. He hasn't wanted me to go to bed at the same time as him and him sleep in my bed starting off, in years. This last nightmare just really sent some bad fears off in him. :(

Anyway I DO appericate your help and everyone's on this. At least I don't feel so alone in trying to deal with it myself with Nate.

Blessing on you! :)

God bless

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 12:48 AM
Pastor Dennis...I was thinking more about your post today and am confused on this part:


It involves confessing all known sins of the family - in Nate's case (and perhaps even for you) confessing to God the sins of Nate's father. To have those sins cut off authoritatively in the Name of Jesus... setting the Cross of Christ between Nate and yourself and the past sins/familiar spirits. If you wish I could fill you in on a heap more on the subject but this brings me to my last point for now.

Regarding Nate's dad...what do you mean about confessing his sins to God? Do you mean me asking God to forgive his dad his sins? I didn't think we could do that sort of thing...but only confess and ask forgivness for our own sins (or our childrens like Job did for his). Now I realize confessing and forgiving are two different things of course. I am not sure how my telling God what Nate's dad's sins are is going to help anything. I mean first God already knows alot more about his sins then I ever could...I just don't understand this part at all. Very confused on that. And how do I ask for Nate's dad's sins to be cut off from Nate...:confused Please explain...thank you.

I did pray that God break any bondages of fear passed from Nate's dad to him today. And I did pray that if any sin's of his dad were affected Nate's to break that hold on him. Probably didn't do that right, but I did the best I understood.

God bless

FaithfulSheep
Jan 18th 2007, 02:26 AM
:hug: Hugs to you Julie. I am so sad that Nate is having these horrible dreams. I read this before church tonight, and while at church something came to my mind. I recall that once before you prayed for Nate and mentioned the blood of Jesus in your prayer.

When you pray for Nate (or when you pray together) do you ever pray that Nate will be protected from these evil dreams by the blood of Jesus?

I don't know, that may be silly... it was just laid on my heart during choir tonight. :kiss: I'll be saying a special prayer for Nate. :hug:

Diggindeeper
Jan 18th 2007, 02:39 AM
Julie, I have been following this thread, and reading and praying....

Now, I have reached a conclusion. Nate is eleven years old. He is in church all the time. By your own admission, he IS learning! And growing in knowledge of the Lord.

I think its time to begin to try to lead Nate to the Lord, to get saved! I was only 10 years old. Barely 10, when I was saved. All of my four children were 8, 9 and 10. So I know children know what they are doing when they make that decision.

Think how different Nate would be, if he had the Holy Spirit within! Start talking to him about giving his heart and life to the Lord, Julie. You can't do everything for him, Julie. I wish one of us could tell you a "formula" that would deliver him of these nightmares, but so far we haven't. And we won't, because we don't have a formula any more than you do.

He needs to trust Jesus as his own Lord and Savior and Deliverer and Rock and Fortress and instead of focusing on fears, he could then focus on the answer! He is old enough, Julie. And let me add, that all four of my children were saved at home! We led them to the Lord, one by one as they were old enough, and the time came. Then, they walked the aisle at church and made it public, which to me is very necessary!

Julie, Nate is old enough. It is time.

FaithfulSheep
Jan 18th 2007, 03:37 AM
Julie, Nate is old enough. It is time.

:hug: I agree. :kiss:

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 03:51 AM
:hug: Hugs to you Julie. I am so sad that Nate is having these horrible dreams. I read this before church tonight, and while at church something came to my mind. I recall that once before you prayed for Nate and mentioned the blood of Jesus in your prayer.

When you pray for Nate (or when you pray together) do you ever pray that Nate will be protected from these evil dreams by the blood of Jesus?

I don't know, that may be silly... it was just laid on my heart during choir tonight. :kiss: I'll be saying a special prayer for Nate. :hug:


That is a good idea..I pray we are both bathed in the blood of Jesus but I will change it to put it that way. thanks. :)



Diggindeeper Julie, I have been following this thread, and reading and praying....

Now, I have reached a conclusion. Nate is eleven years old. He is in church all the time. By your own admission, he IS learning! And growing in knowledge of the Lord.

I think its time to begin to try to lead Nate to the Lord, to get saved! I was only 10 years old. Barely 10, when I was saved. All of my four children were 8, 9 and 10. So I know children know what they are doing when they make that decision.

Think how different Nate would be, if he had the Holy Spirit within! Start talking to him about giving his heart and life to the Lord, Julie. You can't do everything for him, Julie. I wish one of us could tell you a "formula" that would deliver him of these nightmares, but so far we haven't. And we won't, because we don't have a formula any more than you do.

He needs to trust Jesus as his own Lord and Savior and Deliverer and Rock and Fortress and instead of focusing on fears, he could then focus on the answer! He is old enough, Julie. And let me add, that all four of my children were saved at home! We led them to the Lord, one by one as they were old enough, and the time came. Then, they walked the aisle at church and made it public, which to me is very necessary!

Julie, Nate is old enough. It is time.

Nate has prayed the sinners prayer...which I sort of struggle with that (you know the debates on that on the board)...so I know he has made this attempt. We were actually at another church watching the Passion Play and the pastor lead people in that prayer if need be and on his own he bowed his head and repeated the words. That was a couple of years ago and I have to say I was dismayed that it seemed like he was still ruled by his sin nature (you know how kids are...anyone would have to be blind to not see the sin nature in children)..but I know its up to God when Nate recieves the Holy Spirit...I don't think we 'command' the Holy Spirit to come into us when we are saved...actually more and more I see salvation as a working relationship between the person and God.

(Philippians 2:11-13
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure)

...but at any rate, Nate can techinally get bapistized at any time....but he wants to wait until summer so he can get bapisted in this pond the pastor bapisted a lady in last summer. Its some farmers pond that he put blue dye in and Nate was just SO impressed with that...:rolleyes:

Now the pastor is going to have a second half to the basptism class too though...which I would like to see him take that also. I did go to the Lord in prayer yesertday, my private meditation time with Him and He did show me Nate under a little waterfall and pouring water on his head and said to me Nate needs to be bapsited. And He showed me the 'fruit' I am growing in him...which was amazing...and no words to describe that other then I saw Nate as adult..or maybe his spirit as matured...not sure which. Of course I didn't get an explaination to the events happening now...but then what I can expect...what kind of answers did Job get? So I need to quit my throwing mental fits over things and humble myself and get on with the show, so to speak. (I don't do well when I don't get enough sleep and act like a big baby) So I will talk to Nate about getting bapisted sooner....in church and then this summer maybe they can arrange for him to go for a swim in that pond or something...

Though I have to say, that right now I don't know that him doing this will stop the oppession he is under. My being bapisted and confessing Jesus as my Savior hasn't stopped attacks on me either...its actually harder to rebuke those on me then it is on him, for some reason which I can't figure out.

Anyway...he is in my bed again, but at least this time I didn't have to go to bed with him. I gave him a choice of where he wanted to sleep...and I know he was delighted to sleep in 'mom's bed'...though I am not so thrilled...he wiggles too much. But at least we made progress that I didn't have to be right there when he fell asleep. I had a hard enough time years ago getting him to not sleep in my bed and just don't want that battle again. Maybe if things go ok tonight, no bad dreams, I can try to get him in his bed tomorrow night (though still in my room). I know he is super tired having not got enough sleep the last two nights. poor kid. It seems like we spend most of our time sleep deprived around here...:( Its a wonder either of us can think straight half the time.

I SO appericate the prayers even if people haven't posted...I feel them working. :)

God bless

Pastor Dennis
Jan 18th 2007, 12:07 PM
I did pray that God break any bondages of fear passed from Nate's dad to him today. And I did pray that if any sin's of his dad were affected Nate's to break that hold on him. Probably didn't do that right, but I did the best I understood.
It most certainly is NOT asking God to forgive Nate's dad. What I believe you need to do (like it should be in all our praying) is to be specific and not just general. You know, sometimes we hear someone pray "God bless Jane". They should be praying for Jane's real and particular need or whatever. Same thing here. You probably know most of his dad's stuff that you wouldn't want Nate to be laden with. Make a special time of prayer when you name those to God. The thing to do is to ask God very specifically to break any link there might be between those things and your son Nate. The power is in the Cross of Christ so the Cross is to be the defence and the means of breaking any continuation of the "sins of the father" over into the life of Nate.
This has nothing to do with Nate's salvation. This has to do with the quality of his life.
It's like the time you received Jesus into your life as Lord and Saviour. You acknowledged your sin in a general way and asked Him to be your Saviour and Lord. But then something else began to happen. The Holy Spirit began to quicken your spirit and convict you of sins in your past. You were led to repent of them and confess them specifically to the Lord. Why did the Spirit do that? He wanted you to be free of any legal claims of the enemy upon your life. He wanted you to live in the new freedom in Christ Jesus.
It's the quality of life - that is the thing being sought for Nate and upon which prayers should be (and I'm sure are) being offered. And what I am suggesting is to be specific in asking our All-Powerful God to break any link between the sins of Nate's father and Nate himself.

daughter
Jan 18th 2007, 12:39 PM
Hey, maybe we should consider writing to Nate as well, and if Moonglow thinks it appropriate she can pass on what we say?

I'm sending you a pm Moonglow, for Nate. :kiss:

daughter
Jan 18th 2007, 12:57 PM
Ah, sorry. I can't seem to reset my user profile so I could send private messages. I'll have to post this publically.

Dear Nate.

I'm a friend of your Mum's, writing to you all the way from England. She talks a lot about you, and you sound like a great kid from what she says. I have a son who is ten, so I really feel like I know you. In fact, one day we'll really get to know each other, because you know when Jesus comes back that He'll set everything in the world right, and all the Saints (that's you, and your Mum, and even me!) will get to spend eternity in heaven.

I was talking to my son about what he thinks we'll all be getting up to in heaven for all that time, and he thinks that God will give us all great fun things to do - like flying around in outer space and seeing all the stars and far away planets. I don't know if that's in the Bible, but it's a pretty cool idea. I do know that the Bible says we can't imagine what good things He has in store for us.

Your Mum tells me that you have been having some horrible nightmares. I used to get the most horrible nightmares too. I don't want to go on about them, because I don't want to give you nightmares! But you know, they have stopped now. Every night before I go to bed I read my Bible, and I pray to God. My prayers are like this. I pray to God and say THANKYOU!!! Because no matter how bad things are, there is always something great to thank Him for. Like every night for a week I've been saying "thank you God!" because my husband has come home from hospital. And I often say thank you because I saw something beautiful in the day, like a bird. One time I saw a squirrel sitting up a tree eating a kitkat. When I had stopped laughing I thanked God for getting to see that too. There are loads of beautiful lovely things in the world, and it is great to thank God for them.

After I've finished saying "Thankyou!" I tell God my problems. I tell Him how I worry about my husband, who is still sick, and that I need Him to help me be strong, so that I can look after my husband properly. Then I pray for my husband and other people I love who aren't Christian yet. My husband will be Christian - God sent both my son and myself dreams and we know that it will happen. Just not quite when!

After I've finished telling God my problems, I get ready to sleep, and I ask God to look after me while I sleep, and not to let me have any nightmares. If I do dream I ask God to tell me if the dream is important.

Since I've been doing this I've stopped having horrible dreams. I used to wake up screaming and crying quite a lot. My husband has noticed since I became Christian this doesn't happen anymore.

Sometimes when I am awake I see scary things too. But now when I see them I say a quick prayer to God, and He tells me what these things mean. For example, an old man at the hospital was dying, and I saw scary things round him. My son and I prayed for the old man, and he got better for a few weeks, and became Christian before he died. (Because the scary things left him alone.) When he did die he wasn't scared in the end, and there was nothing scary out to get him. He couldn't wait to see Jesus. His whole family were amazed that he died so happy and with a smile on his face.

So - this letter is just to say, hello Nate! You have friends in England (my son, myself and folks from my church) who pray for you when you are asleep. And Jesus says that all who believe in Him are His brothers and sisters... So Jesus is your Big Brother, and He's looking out for you!

God bless, and lots of love,

Mary in England.

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 03:23 PM
It most certainly is NOT asking God to forgive Nate's dad. What I believe you need to do (like it should be in all our praying) is to be specific and not just general. You know, sometimes we hear someone pray "God bless Jane". They should be praying for Jane's real and particular need or whatever. Same thing here. You probably know most of his dad's stuff that you wouldn't want Nate to be laden with. Make a special time of prayer when you name those to God. The thing to do is to ask God very specifically to break any link there might be between those things and your son Nate. The power is in the Cross of Christ so the Cross is to be the defence and the means of breaking any continuation of the "sins of the father" over into the life of Nate.
This has nothing to do with Nate's salvation. This has to do with the quality of his life.
It's like the time you received Jesus into your life as Lord and Saviour. You acknowledged your sin in a general way and asked Him to be your Saviour and Lord. But then something else began to happen. The Holy Spirit began to quicken your spirit and convict you of sins in your past. You were led to repent of them and confess them specifically to the Lord. Why did the Spirit do that? He wanted you to be free of any legal claims of the enemy upon your life. He wanted you to live in the new freedom in Christ Jesus.
It's the quality of life - that is the thing being sought for Nate and upon which prayers should be (and I'm sure are) being offered. And what I am suggesting is to be specific in asking our All-Powerful God to break any link between the sins of Nate's father and Nate himself.

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up...:)

And thank you daughter, I will read that to Nate when I get a chance.

Just an update here:

Nate went to sleep in my bed last night but when I went to bed, I couldn't sleep because he was so restless! Very restless...finally after 11, I couldn't take it anymore and woke him up to have him get in his bed which is the couch cushiones on the floor in my room. Then I was able to sleep but apparently he continued having a restless night and was very cranky this morning saying he didn't sleep well last night, that he kept waking up alot during the night...just too tired to go to school and wanted to sleep in...which I wouldn't mind if he would still go to school...just go in late. We have done this before when he has had a rough night, but this year he is really fighting me on this, says he gets too embarassed going in late (I think the problem is made worse by teachers asking him why he is late and drawing attention to him and being late...:() So then he feels 'all eyes are on him'...

But I also hate for him to miss a whole day of school too...but considering he hasn't slept well for the last three nights, I realize he is just come to his limits on things. I just get frustrated (more frustrated) because I am tired too! And I have things I have to get done today...errands to run...have to go to the chiroprator later this morning and that kind of thing, and now he is going to have to go with me tired or not...plus other things I will have to put off again (been putting some things off since Christmas) because of things like this...on the days he does go to school I am either too tired to do them or my back is hurting too much to do them or I have house cleaning I have done to get done. Sometimes I just feel like screaming...just to get simple things done around here is like wadding through the mud! Drives me crazy...

Now he will have make up work to do...is also missing a test today...it all just adds more stress to an already stressful situation. I am going to call his dr today about increasing his buspar...his anxiety level for a month or so now, is just steadly getting worse and when it goes up, he has more nightmares, more problems sleeping, less able to handle the day to day stresses too. But at least he didn't have any nightmares last night and I am thankful for that.

God bless

OliveBranchDove
Jan 18th 2007, 03:56 PM
Hey,
this is my first post here but I had to respond to your situation with Nate. One thing that's helped me with spiritual attacks is asking the Lord for angels to protect me. The Lord sends them to us to protect us from fallen angels. A visulization I like to use based on Matthew 12:43-45, where the unclean spirit returns to an empty house bringing several more worse spirits with him, I imagine myself as a house with angels inside at the windows, guarding the front door, with Jesus in the center. With angels as our guardians, we're not constantly fending off attacks on our own power, we are free to pursue a relationship with Jesus.

This helped me when I experienced violent urges to commit suicide. I prayed for my cordon of angels and the feelings went away. As a few people in my family have committed suicide, it was a generational thing that I asked to the Lord to block.

Perhaps you could help him focus on Jesus, and not his fear and demons. Jesus has ultimate power over the entire universe. There are several stories in the bible of him and his disciple casting out demons. This is what encourages me. Jesus is still alive and he still has unlimited power.

I don't want to sound too preachy snooty, being my first post and all. Just thought I could help with some of my own experiences.

OliveBranchDove

Ninna
Jan 18th 2007, 04:30 PM
Welcome to the board, OliveBranchDove.:hug:


One thing that's helped me with spiritual attacks is asking the Lord for angels to protect me. The Lord sends them to us to protect us from fallen angels

That is not what the Bible says. Read Ephesians 6:10-18 about the armor of God. That is how we are protected .

For any other discussion on angels, please start another thread as to not get this one off track.

Ta-An
Jan 18th 2007, 05:00 PM
Julie, how would you feel about serving Holy Communion to Nate?? Confessing that he believes Jesus Christ as L-rd of his life.... by eating the elements that represents Life and Light and Christ... that will push the Darkness away..
Another suggestion is :Baptism by full immersion.
Allow him to say the prayer Dennis posted after you, twice a day, or 3x.... tel him you are trying to learn that off by heart and ask him to help you do it :)

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 05:09 PM
Hey,
this is my first post here but I had to respond to your situation with Nate. One thing that's helped me with spiritual attacks is asking the Lord for angels to protect me. The Lord sends them to us to protect us from fallen angels. A visulization I like to use based on Matthew 12:43-45, where the unclean spirit returns to an empty house bringing several more worse spirits with him, I imagine myself as a house with angels inside at the windows, guarding the front door, with Jesus in the center. With angels as our guardians, we're not constantly fending off attacks on our own power, we are free to pursue a relationship with Jesus.

This helped me when I experienced violent urges to commit suicide. I prayed for my cordon of angels and the feelings went away. As a few people in my family have committed suicide, it was a generational thing that I asked to the Lord to block.

Perhaps you could help him focus on Jesus, and not his fear and demons. Jesus has ultimate power over the entire universe. There are several stories in the bible of him and his disciple casting out demons. This is what encourages me. Jesus is still alive and he still has unlimited power.

I don't want to sound too preachy snooty, being my first post and all. Just thought I could help with some of my own experiences.

OliveBranchDove

I appericate your post...there is a verse about the angels watching over us..I will see if I can find that..but I don't know if they can actually protect us from spiritual attacks. I'll see what I can find on that. Jesus gave us the authority to rebuke such things in His Name...so I don't know that angels are needed for that.. but thanks.



ACCM: Julie, how would you feel about serving Holy Communion to Nate?? Confessing that he believes Jesus Christ as L-rd of his life.... by eating the elements that represents Life and Light and Christ... that will push the Darkness away..
Another suggestion is aptism by full immersion.
Allow him to say the prayer Dennis posted after you, twice a day, or 3x.... tel him you are trying to learn that off by heart and ask him to help you do it

Since Nate does believe in Jesus as His Savior and has for several years, he does take communion already...we are working on getting him baptisted part, that I posted about. I am not sure if Pastor Dennis intended for those prayers he posted to be said by Nate...I took it as my praying them. But I will go back and re-read that. Have to go run some errands now then probably take a nap! I am very tired and grumpy today...:(

God bless

daughter
Jan 18th 2007, 05:12 PM
:hug: Hey Moonglow, tired and grumpy, but surely blessed, since you have such a lovely child.

Still praying for you both.

Ta-An
Jan 18th 2007, 05:55 PM
This one. Julie
Jesus, I make you Lord over my spirit. There will be no other gods in my life.
Jesus I make you Lord over my mind, and my belief systems.
Jesus I make you Lord over my emotions, and my feelings.
Jesus I make you Lord over my body - it will only be used for Godly purposes.
Jesus I make you Lord over my will, my choices.

About fear..... Nate is quite right.... when you are asleep and scared, you can get no physical word out... tell him , it is okay to say "Jesus, Jesus" in your head :hug:

OliveBranchDove
Jan 18th 2007, 06:56 PM
There are many verses referring to angels, Hebrews 1:14 for starters, but I won't go into that here.

Perhaps the prayer of the father of the demon-possessed child would be more helpful "Lord I believe, help my unbelief!" Mark 9:24

Lack of sleep is so rough. Demons like to attack in the middle of the night or just before waking when we're most vulnerable (my own and another author's opinion here) Protection through the night hours is what seems most critical right now, since you all have achieved some control over the day.

Since your church wasn't so helpful with directly dealing with the problem, could you at least have them continually pray for you and Nate? There are some great books out there about intercessory prayer and breaking spiritual oppression.

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 09:33 PM
OliveBranchDove, my son is not demon possessed...if he were possessed no demons from the outside would have to attack him, the examples in the bible of such things are pretty clear. Second, his dad is the cause of alot of this, certainly not a Christian and in prison for a voilent crime against a young woman. Nate does not see him...its not recommended due to the abuse his dad inflicted upon him. The root of this fear comes from his father...saddly.

OliveBranchDove
Jan 18th 2007, 09:57 PM
I didn't say he was demon-possessed. This is about oppression, not possession. Just trying to give helpful examples of prayer. :hug:

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 10:01 PM
Oh ok...that post was confusing the way it was worded...sorry...me tired.

Pastor Dennis
Jan 18th 2007, 10:34 PM
Hi Daughter.....

Ah, sorry. I can't seem to reset my user profile so I could send private messages.
Have you tried this -
At the top of the page there is a blue line menu options.
Go to "UserCP" -> Control Panel -> Settings & Options -> Edit Options
There'll be a window: Login & Privacy and another window below that Messaging and Privacy.
That's the one you need. You select your messaging and email preferences there.

SIG
Jan 18th 2007, 10:58 PM
MG-- I have a lot to say about this (what a surprise!), but as you know, I'm a lazy typist. I hope we can IM about this soon, so I can explain at greater length..

In brief: This battle is the Lord's; you and Nate are not to be fighting it. That is too great a burden.

We know that spirits, both good and evil, exist, but I am convinced we are not meant to see tham. It's already hard enough to live in the physical world, without the invisible becoming visible to us.

I advise both you and Nate to let these things become invisible, and let Jesus, Who sees all things, handle it.

I believe that if you both come to fully understand that this battle belongs to the Lord, these dream-demons will eventually fade away--as they are meant to....

I hope we can discuss this further soon....S.

moonglow
Jan 18th 2007, 11:54 PM
I guess I should try to do another update here...though some might think this is all wacky but I can't help what others think. when I laid down this afternoon I couldn't sleep...so I went to the Lord in prayer again over all of this going on with Nate.

When I go my deep meditation/prayers in spirit, I am with Jesus in Heaven...I posted about this all on the controversial fourm before about the things I see. I cannot see God Himself though because I am still alive. Anyway whenever I go there I never feel tired anymore....I feel engerized and alive and joyful..its so different and so far removed from my struggles here, that its hard for me to bring them there and seek the answers I need. Its easy to just forget 'here' and enjoy being there...but I can't stay there and eventually have to function again here in the real world. Paul spoke about being caught up to the third Heaven in the bible though he never said what he saw there. We know John had visions of Heaven and others too...and since I can function as a regular person in day to day life, I don't think I am insane.

At any rate, I went and talked to Jesus about Nate and what I should do and of course complained about how hard it all is and how very tired I am so much of the time...and of course He just reminds me of what the bible says...this life is fleeting! Our woes now will be forgotten...He said I am getting so upset and so frustrated because I am trying to control a situation that I cannot control. That this 'control thing' has always been an issue for me...and He is right...afterall look at how long it took me to become a born again Christian...not until I was in my thirties because I was too stubborn to give total control over to God...I thought He could have 'some' of my life but I would control this or that...dumby me on that..

And He reminded here not that long ago how things were going so well in our lives...so calm and peaceful for quiet some time...that we are all given a 'rest' in the 'race' Paul speaks off...He said its like climbing a mountain..its hard work, you are going to slip, stuggle, stumble, but you keep going ...eventually you will reach an area where the walking is smooth and easy and you go along fine....but if you are really in the 'race', just expect things to get rough again. And that I needed to quit fighting against the storm going on and just hang on to Him, as He is the rock! That I needed to stop getting SO upset over this stuff...but I said, I just want a normal life for us...He points out none of us believers have a 'normal life'...He said, You two are set aside for me, you won't have a normal life...your expectations are too high for this world...lower them and be ready for the struggle. I pointed out all these other families that have normal lives...thinking of some around here...mental pictures you know...words aren't always needed in talking to God. He said, but is that what is important? That the kids seemlying act great at school and go everyday and dad goes off to work and everything is just fine and dandy like that day after day after day? What about their spirits? Their souls? Are they growing...what are they growing into? (not His excate words there just so you know).

For those that don't know...I am a divorced mother out of an abusive relationship where he was also having affairs. Married only that one time...lasted a whole three years. Had Nate during this marriage when I was almost 34 or 35, I forget now..too tired. But I am an older mom and also disabled with a number of health problems the biggest one my back. I am 46 and Nate is 11 so we have a huge age difference between us. I have been raising him alone now for most of his life...his dad when we were married or what he was around, certainly wasn't helping in raising him by any means...but then he never had a good dad to know how to raise a child either. So basically there has never been anything normal about us...not typical for sure.

Anyway He went on to remind me that this life is very, very short and we have so much to learn before going on to eternity. Then I saw what I saw the other day regarding Nate who appeared to be fulling grown with blonde hair...I asked about that and the hair color isn't what his hair color is going to be, its was a reflection of the light inside of him...:) He shone so brightly with the love of God in him. But he was surrounded by dark people, alot of them...I mistook them the other day for black people in Africa I pray about alot that are suffering so much...but realized today, these colors aren't colors like we see them, they reflect what's inside...these were spirits that had Nate totally surrounded all reaching for him...Jesus said they are drawn to him because of the love inside of him, the light, the spirit of God and want it for themselves...but they don't want to recieve it like we do...like in salavation. They want to steal it from him...take it away from him..

So of course I was concerned but Jesus said, look at his face. Nate was happy and rejoicing and wasn't bothered the tinest bit by this huge group of people or spirits reaching towards him. They were all lower then Nate...all on their knees reaching towards him, while he was standing tall...robed in white and glowing...they were all in darkness and shadows.

The other day I thought he was trying to help them, that he was aware of them...but I realized he never acknowledged them at all...didn't even seem to be aware of them. Now what all that means for sure, I don't know...I just know he won't be bothered by them. I don't know when this will happen or how either. I am suppose to just hang on to Christ in this storm and quit being a worry wart over everything...:cool:

Relating scriptures to all of this:

2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

Romans 8
23 And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.

Psalm 39

4 “Lord, remind me how brief my time on earth will be.
Remind me that my days are numbered—
how fleeting my life is.
5 You have made my life no longer than the width of my hand.
My entire lifetime is just a moment to you;
at best, each of us is but a breath.”

James 1

Faith and Endurance
2 Dear brothers and sisters, when troubles come your way, consider it an opportunity for great joy. 3 For you know that when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. 4 So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be perfect and complete, needing nothing.

2 Corinthians 6:10
Our hearts ache, but we always have joy. We are poor, but we give spiritual riches to others. We own nothing, and yet we have everything.

1 Peter 1

6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. 7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

Philippians 3:

13 No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.

Psalm 18:2
The Lord is my rock, my fortress, and my savior;my God is my rock, in whom I find protection.He is my shield, the power that saves me,and my place of safety

So I will hang onto my rock and quit being so 'emotional' through this storm.

God bless

SIG
Jan 19th 2007, 04:27 AM
Good Scriptures!

Flutecrafter
Jan 20th 2007, 07:28 AM
MoonGlow..

I ask your forgiveness sister, for not reading this thread earlier
in the week...

as well as for being too tired to be terribly coherent at the moment.

here is a part of an article i wrote some time back on the subject.


One of the keys here is to get yourself filled with Jesus' love...
A good solid method of arriving at that point is thus..
Prayer.... often..
Studying Gods' Word... the more the better..
Praising God.. either yourself or with some good music.. =)
It has been pointed out to me that those with an inclination can
also praise God with various arts and crafts... =)

You will find that with Jesus' love is a measure of power that is quite
effective at making your prescence distasteful to fallen entities.

the rest of it is here:
http://ancientcrossroads.org/spiritualwarfare.html

I will pray for you and yours tonight..

Mark

zsl
Jan 22nd 2007, 10:07 PM
Moonglow, I have just finished reading yours posts here, today. I want to start out by telling you how deeply I feel about your situation. I will be praying for Nate and also for you.

I have a 10 year old son and can only imagine how difficult this must be for you. I am very encouraged by your posts, though. You are obviously very grounded in your faith and will hold on to the promises of God and remember that He will NEVER leave you or Nate.

Frances
Jan 23rd 2007, 04:41 PM
About fear..... Nate is quite right.... when you are asleep and scared, you can get no physical word out... tell him , it is okay to say "Jesus, Jesus" in your head :hug:

But well worth the effort to call 'Jesus' out loud, for then the tangible darkness will vanish, and with it everything that causes fear..

I would try playing a CD of the music of well known Christians songs/hymns very quietly non-stop - the singers went ahead of the troups round Jericho.

god_guided_guy
Jan 25th 2007, 01:27 AM
I tried making a post MG, but its gone away so all I am going to say now is my prayers are with you and it should sort its self out as it has been with time. Continue in prayer.

Mercy4Me
Jan 26th 2007, 04:05 PM
Julie, how are things going with Nate? I hope you're both getting some rest, and reprieve from the spiritual attacks!

I don't know much about spiritual warfare, but I just had a couple of practical suggestions...

Would it be possible to set up Nate's bed in your room, so you won't be disturbed by him during the night? If there's not room, could you get two smaller beds...maybe place them next to each other with a small table or something in between that you could put a lamp on, but close enough that maybe you could reach over and take his hand or pat his back for comfort when needed? That way he won't be disturbing your sleep when he's restless, and he might feel more "settled" than on a bed on the couch cushions.

I also wondered if you'd tried putting on a Bible CD or tape at night while he's going to sleep...maybe some readings from Psalms or the NT epistles...nothing "scary"...

In reading over this thread this morning, I just want you to be encouraged, and when things seem overwhelming, look back at how far you've come. I'm amazed at what you (and he) have been through...and at what great strides you've made through your faithfulness to your son and to God, and His faithfulness to you! Remember, the battle belongs to Him, and even when it appears He is silent, He may be doing His greatest work in yours and Nates' lives. He was silent as Jesus hung on the cross...His all time greatest work.

Blessings to you both; I'll pray for you!

Diggindeeper
Jan 26th 2007, 07:38 PM
Julie, how are things going with Nate? I hope you're both getting some rest, and reprieve from the spiritual attacks!

I don't know much about spiritual warfare, but I just had a couple of practical suggestions...

Would it be possible to set up Nate's bed in your room, so you won't be disturbed by him during the night? If there's not room, could you get two smaller beds...maybe place them next to each other with a small table or something in between that you could put a lamp on, but close enough that maybe you could reach over and take his hand or pat his back for comfort when needed? That way he won't be disturbing your sleep when he's restless, and he might feel more "settled" than on a bed on the couch cushions.

I also wondered if you'd tried putting on a Bible CD or tape at night while he's going to sleep...maybe some readings from Psalms or the NT epistles...nothing "scary"...

In reading over this thread this morning, I just want you to be encouraged, and when things seem overwhelming, look back at how far you've come. I'm amazed at what you (and he) have been through...and at what great strides you've made through your faithfulness to your son and to God, and His faithfulness to you! Remember, the battle belongs to Him, and even when it appears He is silent, He may be doing His greatest work in yours and Nates' lives. He was silent as Jesus hung on the cross...His all time greatest work.

Blessings to you both; I'll pray for you!

I disagree that she should continue to share a room with Nate, even in two smaller beds. He does not like much being a teenager...he is how old now, 10 or 11? And he needs to go to sleep in a separate bedroom.

Really, he is too old to still be sleeping with Mom. But, with the problems he had early on, and what his Dad had put in his head...she did right then.
But, now he is older and doing better...

...but he likes Mom being right there with him. I know with my own children, I had to break them away from my bedroom.

What I would consider is swapping bedrooms! Let him have that one, IF he is still afraid to go into his. (I bet he does go in there during the day, though!)

I would say, "Nate, I'm giving you this bedroom, and I'm going to get someone to help me move MY bedroom into yours, and yours into this one. Because you are too old to still be sleeping with me."

Sometimes we Moms protect so much (because we must!), but we can easily get comfortable in continuing that protection, instead of finding another route when the time comes, that really would help our children to grow into capable adults that they ARE becoming.

I would just swap bedrooms! I would not let him continue in my bedroom into the teen years...

Besides that, did you read Julie's update? That the Lord has let her know that she is to stop trying to control and fix every situation. But, Nate has probably learned, like my kids did, that they CAN control some things, also!

The bottom line is, this is Julie's situation, and she alone decides what is the best thing to do. Not Nate or anyone else. And from what I've seen of her on this board...she will get through this, and go beyond, and all the while with Nate's best interest as priority.

But Julie, pray about his continued sleeping in your bedroom...

Mercy4Me
Jan 26th 2007, 07:55 PM
I disagree that she should continue to share a room with Nate, even in two smaller beds. He does not like much being a teenager...he is how old now, 10 or 11? And he needs to go to sleep in a separate bedroom.

Really, he is too old to still be sleeping with Mom. But, with the problems he had early on, and what his Dad had put in his head...she did right then.
But, now he is older and doing better...

...but he likes Mom being right there with him. I know with my own children, I had to break them away from my bedroom.

What I would consider is swapping bedrooms! Let him have that one, IF he is still afraid to go into his. (I bet he does go in there during the day, though!)

I would say, "Nate, I'm giving you this bedroom, and I'm going to get someone to help me move MY bedroom into yours, and yours into this one. Because you are too old to still be sleeping with me."

Sometimes we Moms protect so much (because we must!), but we can easily get comfortable in continuing that protection, instead of finding another route when the time comes, that really would help our children to grow into capable adults that they ARE becoming.

I would just swap bedrooms! I would not let him continue in my bedroom into the teen years...

Besides that, did you read Julie's update? That the Lord has let her know that she is to stop trying to control and fix every situation. But, Nate has probably learned, like my kids did, that they CAN control some things, also!

The bottom line is, this is Julie's situation, and she alone decides what is the best thing to do. Not Nate or anyone else. And from what I've seen of her on this board...she will get through this, and go beyond, and all the while with Nate's best interest as priority.

But Julie, pray about his continued sleeping in your bedroom...

Yes, I can certainly agree with you...just thinking that with the emotional fragility he seems to be displaying, according to Julie, that it would be at least a step in the right direction of moving out of her room entirely. The swapping rooms idea is a great one, though!

And yes, I was very blessed to read her update...that's why I tried to encourage her to remember the battle belongs to the Lord, and He's got it under control!

Sorry, Julie, if my advice was inappropriate...feel free to ignore or delete :rolleyes:

Blessings!

moonglow
Jan 26th 2007, 09:10 PM
I guess I got you all confused on the sleeping situation...MOST of the time, Nate does not sleep with me...ONLY when he has a nightmare or terribly sick like when he had that allergic reaction to that antiboic....but then I can't say we were sleeping...:( He was too busy crying in pain! :cry: Though actually once he got settled down he laid on his mat on the floor again. He is at the foot of my bed, we cannot even see each other actually, but I can sit up if he is hollering in his sleep and see if I need to say something to stop the nightmare he is having...:( Usually I just wait and see if he waits up or not though.

we can't trade rooms either...not with my bad back and my mom having a bad back and Rich (her husband who isn't excatly young) would have to do it all...it would be a MAJOR job and we just redid his room...new carpart, painted the walls...Nate picked out his huge shark mural on the wall! lol I cannot sleep at all with light coming in the room and have my windows in my room totally covered with tinfole...I would have to do the same in his room. Remember the fear isn't about a certain room..its about his bedroom...where ever that is. Because that is what his dad said to him...'Don't sleep in your bedroom or a bad man will break in the window and get you and kill you." I could have ten bedrooms in his house and change his bedroom all the time...it wouldn't matter because whatever bedroom he was in, it would be his bedroom. That is the center of the fear here.

Nate just turned 11 last Dec. and is VERY EMBARRASSED about not being able to sleep in his own room...so its certainly not like he wants to be doing this...he is very ashamed of not being able to overcome this fear and 'be like other kids'. Personally I don't see how him sleeping on the floor in my room could hurt him when in many countires around the world whole families sleep in one room. But I realize in our culture its frowned on...this is why he feels so embarassed...:cry: If we lived almost anywhere else, it would be a common practice and no one would think anything of it and Nate wouldn't have to suffer this embarrassment or shame.

At any rate, I truly, truly doubt he will still be sleeping in my room by the time he is a teenager...I really believe this fear will be broken by then in him..:)

I have been working on some things with him that I think will help..I will have to explain later though as I am expecting company any minute and Nate is due home shortly too. :) I appericate all your concern and help though! :)

God bless

god_guided_guy
Jan 27th 2007, 05:22 AM
It seems that things might be improving? Well Im praying for you guys:) Keep us updated:P:)

BHS
Jan 28th 2007, 02:08 AM
Julie,

I truly sympathize with your situation. I have read through your comments and all of the suggestions made. Fear is one of our strongest emotions because it has its purpose at times to come to our aid -- and probably one of the hardest to control ourselves, something I don't think we can control or overcome on our own. It has to come from God's help. It is unfortunate that Nate began to experience such fear at such a young age, which helps to explain why it is so deep-seated.

As far as suggestions -- I only have a few. I would suggest that instead of concentrating on the negative, turn it to the positive. I think someone mentioned this already. What I mean is, when you pray, at least out loud with Nate, pray thanking God that He is going to provide a good night's sleep, thanking Him that He will provide protection during the night (rather than asking for it), thanking Him that He will receive rest that will carry him through the next day, etc. Do you see what I mean, instead of asking, put it in the form of thanks. Nate needs to concentrate on the positive, rather than the negative.

Dreams are a way for the brain to defragment -- just as a computer has to be defragmented (sorting fragments and rearranging them in its memory). So the day's experiences can have an effect on what one dreams the next night or so. That Nate is so focused upon demons is bothersome. Rather than maintain that focus, I think it would be wiser to focus upon God's strength, protection, love, etc. If Nathan will not let you read the Bible to him then I think you need to find stories in the Bible to recite to him yourself, in order to build a positive faith with examples from the Scriptures of how God protects and defends -- how He takes care of His people.

I hope this in some way has helped. As Sig has said the battle is the Lord's -- let Him do His part and do yours by helping to build His faith in a God who is greater than anything that might come against him.

God bless you!

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 28th 2007, 06:02 PM
BHS,
i never thought about it that our brains defrag at night :lol:

moonglow
Jan 29th 2007, 09:12 PM
Julie,

I truly sympathize with your situation. I have read through your comments and all of the suggestions made. Fear is one of our strongest emotions because it has its purpose at times to come to our aid -- and probably one of the hardest to control ourselves, something I don't think we can control or overcome on our own. It has to come from God's help. It is unfortunate that Nate began to experience such fear at such a young age, which helps to explain why it is so deep-seated.

As far as suggestions -- I only have a few. I would suggest that instead of concentrating on the negative, turn it to the positive. I think someone mentioned this already. What I mean is, when you pray, at least out loud with Nate, pray thanking God that He is going to provide a good night's sleep, thanking Him that He will provide protection during the night (rather than asking for it), thanking Him that He will receive rest that will carry him through the next day, etc. Do you see what I mean, instead of asking, put it in the form of thanks. Nate needs to concentrate on the positive, rather than the negative.

Good suggestions, thanks. :)

Dreams are a way for the brain to defragment -- just as a computer has to be defragmented (sorting fragments and rearranging them in its memory). So the day's experiences can have an effect on what one dreams the next night or so. That Nate is so focused upon demons is bothersome.

Well actually no he isn't....the only time he becomes focused on them is after one of these nightmares...then its like forced upon him. He isn't reading anything about demons, nor watching shows about demons...I won't even let him watch that Yu-Gi-o cartoons that has demons in them...:( makes me mad they ever have such a cartoon for children! He rarely talks about such things...its mostly after one of these bad dreams. I do try to keep the topics of discussion positive and away from such things.

Rather than maintain that focus, I think it would be wiser to focus upon God's strength, protection, love, etc. If Nathan will not let you read the Bible to him then I think you need to find stories in the Bible to recite to him yourself, in order to build a positive faith with examples from the Scriptures of how God protects and defends -- how He takes care of His people.

Yes, we do that. :)

I hope this in some way has helped. As Sig has said the battle is the Lord's -- let Him do His part and do yours by helping to build His faith in a God who is greater than anything that might come against him.

God bless you!

I haven't had time to sit down and post an update without Nate around or other distractions...still have distractions actually because plumbers are over fixing a broken pipe in the basement and had to dig up the front yard! :rolleyes: Seems like something always comes up.

Anyway this is what I did....after posting and praying and taking everything in I just kept thinking something just isn't right here...something doesn't jive. Remember how I posted how back when Nate was having the voilent rages and I would quietly rebuke those in the Name of Jesus (without him even knowing either) and he would calm right down? That was a true miracle happening in front of my eyes too! And not just once or twice, but over and over again until even the start of those rages disappeared. It was very simply, very easy and very straightforward. But yet we are stuck on the nightmares...and the fear they bring and my rebuking them in the Name of Jesus wasn't working...well I finally remembered (with some prompting by you know who...;)) that there were times when I would rebuke Nate's bad behavior and nothing happened....well it was because it was JUST Nate and nothing more causing his bad behavior....!! Took me awhile back then to figure that out too...

Well I truly think the reason the rebuking isn't working now, or anything I have tried that has been suggested to me in private in the past (such as on generational curses and all) and on here, its not working because there are NO demons involved.

That its totally only caused by the events that started it all years ago when he was little. To figure this out we have to go back in time to when Nate was very little, two or three and no one on here could have helped me figure it out but me, because none of you were there. Several things happened...his dad was not a good parent, abusive emotionally and mentally and neglectful as I started before...that is enough to cause a child to be scared in the first place, right? Well I think it started when Nate was three...his dad took him to the Mall on Halloween and the nightmares started then...Nate would say 'witch, witch' after waking up from one of his bad dreams...before that he didn't have bad dreams. So I asked his dad about it and he said some teenager there were wearning makeup and stuff to look like witches and it scared Nate...meanwhile the nightmares continued, I think because of the bad treatment by his dad....

Then in 1999, that summer when Nate was still three, that movie came out with Darth Maul in it and his picture was everywhere!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Maul

Darth Maul is a fictional character in the Star Wars universe. He was introduced in the 1999 film Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. Darth Maul was portrayed in the film by martial arts specialist Ray Park and voiced by British actor Peter Serafinowicz.


http://www.mavarts.com/templates/DarthMaul.jpg

So here is a child being told all sorts of crazy scary things by his dad...abused, neglected....too afraid to tell me or anyone...if you have ever done any reading on abused children, they love the parent still, that is abusing them...they ever become very protective of them thinking, if they show that parent how much they love them, that parent will stop the abuse and love them back! So i think what Nate did it focus all his bad thoughts, his fear, his angry on this 'demon'...that is how he was able to 'deal' with his dad. An abuse child cannot handle directing that fear onto that parent..its emotionally too much! Nate was only three and a half when this movie came out...he saw it on kids backpacks, toys, on T-shirts and I remember clearly how much he hated that picture and he never ever wanted to have a thing to do with Star Wars. To him, this wasn't an alien in some fictional movie or story...he couldn't even understand such things then..children think in concrete terms..they do not understand abstract things well at all...this is why they believe everything they are told! At this age they believe everything on TV, believe their dreams are real...they don't understand such things...so to Nate, this was a 'real' demon. :(

So I think he projected all his bad feelings about his dad onto this image in order to beable to cope...then the demon dreams started. He couldn't handle having bad dreams about his dad! He was SO protective of his dad it was rather frightening actually..:(

When his dad was arrested and put in jail I didn't tell Nate until I took him to his therapist and we told him there in his office. Nate just blew! Saying he wanted to kill the judge and kill the police for doing that to his dad! Remember at this time he was just four...and had alot of major problems then like I have told you about. He was extremely upset...just livid that this happened to his dad. See what I mean about how protective he was over his dad? To the extreme...even to the point of putting me down or hurting me if I did anything he thought was threatening towards his dad. :( Even though I was the one that didn't hurt him and did my best to care for him. It wasn't until more then six months later that he started to feel safe enough to start telling me bits and pieces of what his dad did and said.

Anyway...finally putting this all together, I had a talk with Nate and told him these things...that I really didn't think the demons were real...that no demons were trying to 'get him' in his dreams...about darth maul and how I think he just projected all his bad feelings about his dad onto this image. I said, if they were real demons the rebuking in the Name of Jesus would stop them and they would fade away because He is more powerful then anything. They wouldn't just keep coming back over and over like this. While of course he didn't like hearing these feelings were really for his dad...the fears...I think it was a relief for him to know these demons are not real and nothing more then his imagnation. They are from the past and feelings he needs to come to terms with. I didn't want to just say bad things about his dad and make it sound like his dad was trying to hurt Nate on purpose...so again I reminded Nate about his dad's terrible upbringing and how horribly abusive his dad was...and his dad had no real father figure to learn from to be a good parent himself. Ex's dad did much, much worse things to him, then he ever did to Nate...

And I think Nate's dad did/does love Nate in the best way he knows how too. Anyway, I think this would all be much less scarey then a child thinking some real demon was after him and something he can now cope with himself. Its still going to take time but I think I took alot of the 'fear' out of those dreams...knowing now what they really are.

So far he hasn't had anymore bad dreams...he has hollered in his sleep a number of times...his buspar for anxiety was increased a little bit too and he sees his pdoc Wednesday to see if anymore med adjustments are needed. If anything else comes up I will let you all know. I thank you all SO much for all the prayers.

God bless

BHS
Jan 30th 2007, 12:48 PM
Hi Julie,

Your present strategy sounds good! One other thought I had, which may have been something you have already incorporated is to emphasize to Nate that God never slumbers nor sleeps because He is constantly watching over us. Therefore, we can rest and sleep in peace. The psalms are good scripture to pray over Nate including Psalm 91.

God bless you!

god_guided_guy
Feb 5th 2007, 06:30 AM
Moonglow I want you to know I have and will continue to pray daily for him.:) I am glad to hear of this improvement.:D

moonglow
Feb 5th 2007, 03:50 PM
Thanks all...Nate has continued to go without any more nightmares. He was pretty sick last week and missed school for three days due to a really bad head cold. Surprisingly there was only one night he woke up blowing his nose! Sure was blowing it about nonstop when he was awake though..:( Had a very sore nose too. I gave him a 12 hr antihesitmine to dry up his nose but usually when he is that sick he is still waking up coughing and blowing his nose, so your prayers have really helped in more ways then one..:)

He finally got back to school today! :pp

I am just exhausted though....he started feeling better and now has TOO much engery and worn me out...been a long week!!

irlandes
Feb 21st 2007, 01:44 AM
As I started reading this long thread, the first thing that came to my mind was food allergies, explanation follows below.

Then, later you said he had food allergies. Hmmm.

My son, now 30 and in med school (VCOM), was a hyperactive kid. He took dexedrine, the whole bit. And, yes, I am sure he was hyperactive. He was a very angry boy. We lived in a terrible mess, because I told my wife we were not fixing the place up just to fight with him. So, it was a mess, with disgusting carpet.

Also, all the hyperactives in the neighborhood came to our house to play, because their parents couldn't stand them. They were so much better behaved than he was, yet he was the only one who had no arrest record before he was 18 (or after).

A few months ago, he didn't eat peanut butter for several weeks. One day he grabbed some peanut butter, and put it on some crackers. The next two days his mind was as if it exploded. He was very angry, couldn't think well. He realized it was the peanut butter.

He did fine, then, for some weeks. One day he sent me a mail begging for help, and I called. He was falling apart again. Later, he realized he had been eating candy bars that have peanuts in them.

And, his symptoms as he described them are pretty much what he was like as a kid, and yes, he did eat a lot of peanut butter.

Note that all his symptoms are mental and emotional, not physical.

Obviously, you have had him tested for food allergies. But, was it a major test, such as Biotrition does, 211 food allergies?

If you google, you can find Biotrition easily. They also list common symptoms of food allergies, such as the psychological, including
aggressiveness, anxiety, crying jags, depression, hyperactivity, indifference, irritability, which is pretty much what my boy experienced most of his life.

As a dad, it really breaks me up to think my kid may have suffered as much as he did, simply because of peanut butter, and I, his dad, wasn't able to know it and save him from all that pain.

***

moonglow
Feb 21st 2007, 03:54 AM
Thank you so much for the information! I will tell you what all we went through on a later post. I agree about the medication and the seculars world 'head shrinking' business...it doesn't work...

God bless

irlandes
Feb 22nd 2007, 04:06 PM
Allergy testing is probably expensive, and no matter how useful it might be, it might not be financially possible.

There is another way to get that information. MY best friend taught it to me some years ago. It's called an Elimination Diet.

What it involves is creating a 'suspect' list of foods, and then taking them out of the diet one at a time. Unless consequences are horrid, after a time with no symptoms, one tries a small amount of that food and sees if the problematic symptom recurs.

The problem, as you can see, is how does one find a suspect food? Of course, the worst possible case would be two food allergies both causing the same symptom -- the expensive allergy test would find both...

Sometimes one finds it by accident, when a food that hasn't been eaten in a while causes the symptom, and it's hard to miss. That is how my son finally discovered after nearly 30 years, that peanut butter has major negative psychological effects on him (just last month.)

But, another way is to record everything the person eats, even just a nut or two, or a pat of butter.

Then, after sufficient data is recorded, and the symptom occurs, look at the food list and see if anything was eaten in a pattern linked to the symptom pattern. If there is a grave food allergy, eventually you will discover it.

I realize it could be hard when it is a kid of that age. Suppose on the way home from school, a friend gives him a chaw of tobacco, he might not tell you. (Just kidding; or at least I wish I were just kidding.) :)


The good news is it's free to do it this way.

In my own case, I had a burning itch, from age 15 until I finally found what caused it, in my 30's. I am not going to tell you where that burning itch was, use your imagination with the clue that it was in the worst possible place.

My mother took me to the doctor, who decreed in his infinite stupidity, that it was psychological, that I had a deep-seated desire to touch myself.

When I was in my 30's, one day my first wife used a sample of Amway soap that my brother had given her, hoping we would make him rich by buying it from him.

It was like putting a flame-thrower down my trousers. I FIGURED OUT INSTANTLY THAT MY DEEP-SEATED PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WAS AN ITCH CAUSED BY SOAP! I quickly learned that 15% of lame-brain's patients suffer from this syndrome, which is called pruritus, but he had no clue.

My tale is not especially important, except as an example.

My whole attitude is, no one knows you or your kid better than you and your kid. No one has more time to spend trying to solve your boy's problems than you and your boy. I'm not saying his problem is a food allergy, nor even a phobia or anxiety curable by EFT. I am saying time and a mother's love is on your side.

daughter
Feb 22nd 2007, 04:12 PM
I'll pray for your son too Irlandes... when I came off a similar anti depressant, I also got "brain zaps". Interesting to hear it's a side effect!

moonglow
Feb 23rd 2007, 02:45 AM
Allergy testing is probably expensive, and no matter how useful it might be, it might not be financially possible.

There is another way to get that information. MY best friend taught it to me some years ago. It's called an Elimination Diet.

What it involves is creating a 'suspect' list of foods, and then taking them out of the diet one at a time. Unless consequences are horrid, after a time with no symptoms, one tries a small amount of that food and sees if the problematic symptom recurs.

The problem, as you can see, is how does one find a suspect food? Of course, the worst possible case would be two food allergies both causing the same symptom -- the expensive allergy test would find both...

Sometimes one finds it by accident, when a food that hasn't been eaten in a while causes the symptom, and it's hard to miss. That is how my son finally discovered after nearly 30 years, that peanut butter has major negative psychological effects on him (just last month.)

But, another way is to record everything the person eats, even just a nut or two, or a pat of butter.

Then, after sufficient data is recorded, and the symptom occurs, look at the food list and see if anything was eaten in a pattern linked to the symptom pattern. If there is a grave food allergy, eventually you will discover it.

I realize it could be hard when it is a kid of that age. Suppose on the way home from school, a friend gives him a chaw of tobacco, he might not tell you. (Just kidding; or at least I wish I were just kidding.) :)


The good news is it's free to do it this way.

In my own case, I had a burning itch, from age 15 until I finally found what caused it, in my 30's. I am not going to tell you where that burning itch was, use your imagination with the clue that it was in the worst possible place.

My mother took me to the doctor, who decreed in his infinite stupidity, that it was psychological, that I had a deep-seated desire to touch myself.

When I was in my 30's, one day my first wife used a sample of Amway soap that my brother had given her, hoping we would make him rich by buying it from him.

It was like putting a flame-thrower down my trousers. I FIGURED OUT INSTANTLY THAT MY DEEP-SEATED PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WAS AN ITCH CAUSED BY SOAP! I quickly learned that 15% of lame-brain's patients suffer from this syndrome, which is called pruritus, but he had no clue.

My tale is not especially important, except as an example.

My whole attitude is, no one knows you or your kid better than you and your kid. No one has more time to spend trying to solve your boy's problems than you and your boy. I'm not saying his problem is a food allergy, nor even a phobia or anxiety curable by EFT. I am saying time and a mother's love is on your side.


Oh been there, done that...and I know about that 'itch'...Nate used to get it and it was due to him eating foods he was allergic too. and I did chane to an allegy/dye free landry soap too. When I first got him into the ear, nose, throat dr, they had me keep a food diary on him..so did that...and through the elimation diet I also figured out he reacted badly to red dye 40 which they were unable to test him for...the first testing they did was for airborne allergies..they took blood and tested it and he had 22 air borne allergies! later, knowing I had worse allergies then him, I went through the testing too and had 33 airborne allergies...we just need to move to mars! :rolleyes: we got allegy shots for years...

Then he went through some very painful food allergy testing which they did on his arms...:( And found he was allergic to yeast, soy, eggs and milk! Just try to buy anything that doesn't have this stuff in it...no bread, no cereal...on and on and on...at least I could buy basic things like meat and vegatable and fruit...but boy anything else I had to read the ingrence carefully...it would take forever to do my grocery shopping...and of course Nate wanted all the 'kids foods' he saw...it was very difficult. I had to go to a special store to buy a certain kind of fake milks and powered fake eggs, etc, etc....very expensive and I really couldn't afford it...then he wouldn't eat like yeast free pizza...:cool: or any of those other foods that left out what he was allergic too...it was very rough for a long time. The dye was the worse though as its in everything! Red dye 40 in childrens vitamins, over the counter meds, RX meds, childrens snacks, cereal, juices, kolaide, ice cream, on and on and on...

It just got to be literally impossible to avoid all of this all the time! So I finally asked them...isn't there something I can give him to stop an allergic reaction? I had read Dr. Doris Rapps book titled "Is this your child?" about how food allergies can cause all sorts of strange behavior...and she said in there something they could take for kids but I looked all over town and couldn't find it...so they said, get Buffered Vitamine C at this certain store out side of town. Now its not just vitamine C in it but as a combination of several vitamines that stop an allergic reaction..it comes in a power and you mix some in a drink (not water cause it taste horrible) then have them drink it...I got some and it worked great! :pp

Now back to the rages Nate was having that I talked about on this thread...when I started rebuking those in the Name of Jesus...and he got better even though he was still on this diet...his food allergies went away...:pp I have no idea why, but they did. Now I won't say he can't still be senitive to things though...he still avoids milk.. not sure if he really needs too or just never liked it because it always made his stomach hurt.he started refusing to drink it at age two....still avoids ice cream though will have some once in awhile. He no longer reactes to red dye 40, can eat cheese and be fine...so this isn't a big concern right now...

Now on the other stuff you posted about...the EFT, I had someone who told me about that before...I used to post on a parent board for kids like mine and this one mom started trying this with her child...only thing is the effect doesn't last so you have to go back again and again and again and most medical insurances don't cover it...and I couldn't afford it then and I can't afford it now. If his medical insurance covered it I would try it....but when I checked it out here (we would have to go out of town to the city) it was pretty expensive...:(

That is my biggest draw back with this...money...

I can only do what I can do. Nate has improved greatly on his anxiety but still has a long, long ways to go. I am going to be posting for help and see if vitamines or anything like that might help him. I have tried all sorts of natural treatment stuff in the past...I have researched this stuff indepth! Bought tons of homopathic stuff that didn't really help... Believe me...if you only knew the hours of research time, the books, the searching and searching for anything to help him and in the end nothing much really was helping..not natural treatment, not medication, not therapy...the only thing that had any effect was spiritual warfare...so maybe instead of going back to what didn't work, I need to look further into what has worked....:hmm:

I thank you so much for sharing all of this with me though....I am sorry your son didn't discover this food allergy until so late....but at least now he knows!

God bless
Julie

Flutecrafter
Feb 23rd 2007, 06:03 AM
I can only do what I can do. Nate has improved greatly on his anxiety but still has a long, long ways to go. I am going to be posting for help and see if vitamines or anything like that might help him. I have tried all sorts of natural treatment stuff in the past...I have researched this stuff indepth! Bought tons of homopathic stuff that didn't really help... Believe me...if you only knew the hours of research time, the books, the searching and searching for anything to help him and in the end nothing much really was helping..not natural treatment, not medication, not therapy...the only thing that had any effect was spiritual warfare...so maybe instead of going back to what didn't work, I need to look further into what has worked....:hmm:

I thank you so much for sharing all of this with me though....I am sorry your son didn't discover this food allergy until so late....but at least now he knows!

God bless
Julie
yeppers, still sounds like my eldest.
anxiety.. I tend to use niacin myself. as does my son.

I definitely understand about the hours of research ma'am. It feels like
inventing the wheel all over again sometimes. :(

Still praying for you and yours.

mark

irlandes
Feb 23rd 2007, 05:20 PM
...that I didn't make it clear.

It sounds like the allergy tests Nate took were the type they test for, one at a time, and yes, I can imagine they really tortured that poor kid.

The reason I mentioned Biotrition, though there may well be other similar labs, is they need only one vial of blood, period, one time, no more -- unless a Fed Ex plane crashes, ahem. I am going to take a wild guess they came up with this approach because they well know the old way, one substance at a time, is cruel and painful.

They do something with microscopes, and put a tiny bit of each substance in a tiny speck of blood, and see what happens. Since they test for 211 substances, it takes quite a bit of time, and therefore it costs quite a bit.

I am aware now you have exhausted this approach very well. But, i thought I'd put the details here for others who may read this and have family with a similar problem.
***
<edited out new age stuff>

moonglow
Feb 23rd 2007, 06:50 PM
<link removed>

In the past, long before I was a Christian or had my son I checked out all sorts of werid stuff...like the foot one, where supposely certain nerves on the bottom of your foot connected to organs or other places in the body and if you rubbed those nerves a certain way they would help with whatever organ was bothering you, such as having an upset stomach, etc...I think its called reflectology...something like that...well it doesn't take into account those that have nerve damage in their feet though like mine! I have buions and since the joint on the big toe isn't straight those tendons and muscles are pulled into a position they shouldn't be and they press on nerves causes at times alot of pain....so I don't like anyone messing with my feet!

Same with my back...I have nerve damage there and a regular backrub can cause a tremous amount of pain if the person doesn't know what they are doing...

So one size doesn't fit all...but I do agree with you the bible really clues us in on natural treatment starting in Genesis actually where herbs are mentioned in the creation of things...I don't think God made the herbs just to spice up Adam and Eve's food either...in fact in looking closer at some of the laws in the OT they were for health benefits more then anything esle and as science is catching up with the bible more and more they are proofing the things in th e bible are medically right...such as Paul telling Peter(?) or Timothy, I forget which...to drink a little wine for his stomach problems, not just water all the time...now they are saying on the news a little wine has alot of health benefits...provided its not overdone of course, which the bible also warns against being a drunk...so moderation is the key there...

At any rate back to the allergy testing my son went through...I was getting tired when I was posting that so didn't go into all the details of what we went through to get him that far! I know you think the arm testing was bad...they did put on a cream on his arms before hand to numb the skin but no it doesn't last...but if you think that is bad, I didn't tell you half of the story...

I think Nate was born with allergies....I breast fed for awhile but was eating foods he was allergic too and not knowing it...I was dropping weight TOO fast and started having problems with low blood sugar so breast feeding was taking a huge toll on my body and I had to quit after six weeks or so....switched him to fomula but as I said he was allergic to milk...but I didn't know that and milk is in that...I talked to the dr knowing I also couldn't drink milk and wanted to change his fomual and her reply was 'oh babies don't have allergies..'...well I did as a baby! I couldn't drink milk either and the dr had my mom put me on goats milk...(poor me, glad I don't remember that!)...I switched him anyway to a soy based formual...well again...he was allergic to soy! But I didn't know that! This poor kid spent his whole babyhood in terrible pain...:cry: He got terrible diaper rashes...his stomach hurt ...I was told he just had colic (meaning they don't know) later I was told he was 'just a fussy baby'...he would start crying in the evening and not stop until around one in the morning every single night! And he wanted to be held constantly...and would only sleep in his car seat...laying down in his crib seemed to not work...

At almost a year old he started having ear infections...went on for three months...the dr would put him on an antiboic as soon as it was done a few days later the ear infection would be back. This went on like I said for three months! I kept asking her if he didn't need ear tubs and she said no they wait until they have had problems for six months first! :eek: This was a time he was starting to babble and talk and needed to hear things...she wasn't the one getting woke up in the middle of the night with a screaming baby cause his ears hurt so much and a high fever...he was in so much pain he would go around and slam his forehead onto things...(I found out later that triggers a chemical in the brain that gives pain relief...I can't spell it sorry). Finally I was so disgusted with the dr and so worried about him I took him to an allergy dr and he put ear tubs in and he had no more ear infections.

Later he got a sinuse infection that went on for THREE months because the dr refused to put him on an antiboic saying he was just having allergies (he was two or three then and I guess old enough now to actually have allergies...:B ) so instead she gave me allergy meds to give him and tried breathing treatments which only made things worse....he wasn't having breathing problems...he had a sinuse infection! Finally I said if you think its allergies then PLEASE refer us to an allergy dr (his insurance had changed then and I couldn't just take him to another dr without a referal)...so she did, and the first thing he did was x-ray his sinuses which showed a bad sinuse infection....:mad: and finally got him on an antiboic...only by then his adnoids were infected and never cleared up...a YEAR later they finally took his infected, swolled, pus filled adnoids out....:mad:

Now this dr did the back skin prick testing for allergies which I found out later is NOT reliable...it showed Nate had no allergies! Though he had all the signs of hayfever...sneezing, itchy nose, eyes...and always getting sinuse infection or bronchis all allergy related illnesses....but since the testing didn't show he had allergies the dr wouldn't put him on anything and refused to do anymore testing until he was older (he was four then) saying his system wasn't developed enough to show the allergies...ugh!!!!!

Later I was able to get him into this last dr that did this other testing I told you about and did show the allergies and he was put on RX meds and got allergy shots which helped somewhat but then got to the point it seemed to be back firing and making his allergies worse so we stopped the shots after several years of them....

I swear its worse then pulling teeth to get ANY kind of decent medical care!! I can't tell you the heartache, the angry, and fury, the frustration I have been through in trying to get him help in just this one area!! When they took his adnoids out I wanted them to take his tonsiles out...I KNEW they would be a problem down the road...I went through this same junk as a kid and they took both out at the same time...I couldn't even breath through my nose cause everything was so enlarged due to my allergies. But since at that time he had not had an infection in his tonsiles they wouldn't take them out...but it happened.....he didn't get those out until he was eight I think it was and the older you are the more painful recovery is...:( That was an awful week! Not too mention every time they do these outpatience surgeries Nate gets very sick to his stomach when he wakes up...even with the meds to help with that...

I wish I could sue drs just for being stupid! Not for money but just get them in court and let everyone see how dumb some of them are...and lacking in compassion....sigh...but as a Christian that wouldn't be right...

I wish I could take all the hours and hours and hours of pain Nate has suffered and instill them in their memories though...just so they would know!!

Anyway sorry this is so long, thanks so much for all your help!

God bless

irlandes
Feb 24th 2007, 05:37 PM
My son is in medical school, VCOM, the Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine. At this time, he shares your opinion of doctors in general, and is somewhat disenchanted. He sends me links which, for example, tell how many tens of thousands of people die each year from doctor's errors. How many people die from "correctly prescribed" FDA approved prescription medicines. Etc.

I tell him all he can do is try to be the best doctor he can be, and not worry about the other stupid jerks. I tell him there may be a small town out there which prays every week for a doctor, and he may be called to be that doctor.

Anyway, I was an electronic technician until I retired. The last years, I was a Senior Electronics Technician. I was what in electronics is called a troubleshooter, which means I got paid maybe $40,000 a year in current dollars.

The same medical occupation is called diagnostician, which means they get paid, um, $200,000 a year, and up.

In both cases, the task is exactly the same, except doctors are dealing with live human beings, and they get sued for $100 million dollars when they make a mistake.

So, I am actually able to help my son with diagnostic procedures, albeit not with the medical details.

Do you know who is really, in most cases, diagnosing your problems when you go to a doctor? YOU ARE!

The doctor (actually in most casesthe nurse who talks to you) basically responds to what you have to say about your problem.

I am going to make up an example, which I am somewhat confident is not a realistic one. Let us say you have a headache, and a sore muscle, a bad cough, and a stomach ache. Put together, those four things might indicate something specific to a really talented doctor.

But, in real life, you, the real diagnostician, may be emphasizing only one, your terrible cough. So, the nurse reports your problem is a bad cough, and the medical 'talent' goes in that direction.


What can cause a bad cough? Um, TB. Bronchitis. Smoking. Lung fungus infection. Pneumonia. Lung cancer. A good doctor can list other things, too, I'm sure.

The most common medical diagnostic activity is called: differential diagnosis. That means knowing the entire list of possible causes of a symptom, and using known tests to eliminate the wrong causes on the list.

Due to time shortages, and economic issues (for example, a doctor can't x-ray every one that comes in with a cough, he would be out of business in a week) the doctor has to make a quick, 4 or 5 minute evaluation, listen with a stethoscope to your lungs, and probably pick the most common diagnosis. Which, if it's cold season, will be some kind of seasonal crud, "Take this medicine, and this cough medicine, AND GET BACK WITH ME IF IT ISN'T BETTER IN A WEEK."

In other words, in most office calls, the doctor has to simply rate the possible causes statistically. The simplest cause is probably correct most of the time, so that's the way the doctor jumps for initial diagnosis.

If you were the commander-in-chief at Walter Reed Hospital, they would, indeed, probably check for everything. We mere mortals don't have the resources, and the doctors don't have time to spend for more than "STEP ONE" diagnosis, which is the simplest cause.

And, "...GET BACK WITH ME IF IT ISN'T BETTER IN A WEEK" is an integral part of the troubleshooting. Most patients with a cough do indeed have a minor issue, that would probably cure itself without any treatment.

As a practical matter, if there is no obvious clue in the initial visit to a more serious issue, it is going to take the further information that the problem was NOT a minor cold or hay fever issue, because it didn't get better in a week with minor treatments, to invoke an expensive, in-depth look for something far more serious. And, to be honest, most of us wouldn't tolerate thousands of dollars spent on a minor cough just to make sure it isn't cancer or TB or fungus infection. We scream enough at a simple blood test, if we have to pay.

Looking at it another way, probably 95%+ of people reporting a bad cough to a nurse/doctor team suffer from a minor, temporary issue. As I said, they can't invoke the whole complex and expensive technology for that 95%, so with a very serious issue, you are seldom going to get relief for the other 5% on your first visit, nor alas, perhaps not on a second visit, either.

Notice we haven't even yet covered stupid doctors, this assumes so far a competent doctor.

Next, there is a big problem of doctor overload. I am going to tell you something that is VERY NON-PC.

There are a limited number of 'seats' in medical schools in the US. Due to our wonderful friends, the militant feminists, supported by ordinary women everywhere who believe what they are told, there has been tremendous social and legal pressure on the med schools to increase the number of female med students, in the name of 'equality', not what is good for society. They have done this by reducing the number of male students.

This would be no problem as such, of course. Who cares what gender a good doctor is? The problem arises because a majority of female doctors AREN'T PRACTICING FULL-TIME TEN YEARS AFTER MED SCHOOL!

What are they doing? Um, mostly stay at home moms, though a few years ago, I read a newspaper article about a female doctor who gave it all up and started driving a semi-truck.

Back in the States, a local doctor had a Monday doctor, a woman who came to his clinic and treated patients on Mondays only. so she could be with her kids most of the time. She will probably earn somewhere between 500 and a thousand dollars for that one day's work, and that will keep her in mad money.

So, no matter how much this offends you, the more women we send to medical school, the fewer practicing doctors we have. The fewer doctors we have in practice, the less time a doctor has to spend with you.

My son says it has been announced that 7 new med schools will be started in the next 12 months, trying to get more doctors. And of course, those 7 new schools will also admit over 60% of female students.

One of the faculty reported she needed to see a dermatologist. Her appointment which was made in November, is for June 2007. Seriously.

To give you numbers, my son talked to a female pediatrician who said her personal record was 106 patients seen in one day!!!

In an 8 hour work day, that means around 13 patients an hour, and remember she has to fill out the records, and go to the restroom once in a while.


I have discussed this with my best friend here in Mexico, and he says he feels he cannot properly care for a routine patient in less than 15 minutes. The previous pediatrician had only 4 minutes and 36 seconds per patient, unless she had an extra long day. Assuming it takes a minute and a half to walk from one patient to the other, and get on clean gloves, that means 3 minutes, and we have to subtract a minute or so to write in the records.

So, in many cases, a doctor only has mere seconds to spend with a patient.

How many readers would like a job with that much stress?


I have told my friend here that in my opinion, the Third World part of Mexico has better routine medical care than the US. If you need a heart-lung machine here, you are going to die, but salmonella is not a big deal, because in a few minutes you can see a doctor and get the antibiotics in your stomach..

Yes, I have had salmonella. It's like diarrhea, but with blood added. The first time I did'n't know what I had. My friend didn't even look concerned. He just told me to treat it like a regular bacterial infection, so I did.

When my wife got it, as soon as she said she had blood, I had her take the correct antibiotics (two Bactrim every 12 hours) and rest a day, and it was gone.

I told him in the State salmonella will be on the evening news. But, if you have to wait 8 or 24 hours to get treatment, it makes sense that it will be a lot worse.

My solution, which clearly does not work for you, because of the number of allergies and other problems Nate has, is to take charge of our own health problems. In my case, that means the Atkins diet, with a total change in my medical profile (bp down to 105/66, etc). Saw palmetto from Wal-mart for prostate blockages, works great, six cents a day, not ten dollars a day for a toxic med.

This may seem harsh, but I think you should accept after two or more years on this board, you are not going to get any kind of physical or curative help here. You can let off steam in a sympathetic environment, which is good. And, you can get prayers, which is great. But, there will be no solutions as such in a medical sense.

You have exhausted the most obvious problem, which is allergies. Apparently, EFT is not for you. The doctors of the world aren't helping you, and you well know psychiatric practice today ranges from useless to very harmful. (Has anyone read the older book THE MANUFACTURE OF MADNESS???)

You will also have to sort through the different opinions. Some blame any kid's nightmares on demons. The bible does make it clear that demon possession does occur, but I am one who thinks most mental problems are from allergies or exposure to toxic materials, or changes in the brain which occur under stress.

There was a study which showed that gentle rats placed in small cages inside big cages with very aggressive rats, underwent 'permanent' changes in the chemistry of the brain, after only a few hours of terror.

On the Yahoo Avoidant Personality list, it soon becomes obvious that most Avoidants have had very unpleasant and stressful contact with other people. So, to me it sounds like the rat thing.

Yet, PTSD is also a permanent brain change, and EFT can cure most of them.

Anyway, end of current book. :)

moonglow
Feb 24th 2007, 06:23 PM
But the EFT is nothing but occult stuff that is why our posts have been edited....if you read from the beginning of this thread you would have seen that spiritual warfare HAS helped my son. And his food allergies are no longer a problem in a big way...which I said in my last post too. I don't know if you aren't hearing me or scanning through my threads and missing this stuff or what. God HAS been the only thing that has helped my son. Nothing else has and I sure as heck am not turning too some new age occult junk which would no doubt ruin our lives...

It sounded good at first to help him heal faster from his anxiety...any of us want to see our children stop suffering as soon as possible with this stuff of course! I should have realized their is no quick fix to get over abuse though..:(

I already posted too in length as to what I believe has caused the demon nightmares...its all due to the trama of the emotional abuse he went through with his dad. No there aren't any real demons after him...I know that, told him that. It takes years to overcome this type of abuse...its something he is going to have to work through in time on his own.

Nate doesn't need the Atkins diet because food allergies are no longer the issue...I already know about this diet. As far as PTS causing permant changes in the chemical in the brain, I know that too...unless treated right away then it can be reserved BUT this is from the secular world's point of view, not from God's point of view....healing of anything IS possible in Him.

I can't and I won't turn to any new age stuff which is outside of God...showing a lack of faith in God and actually saying to Him..."you can't do it so I am going to do it my way...men's way" and that never works..its never a total long term true healing, only minics it. I thank the mods for watching out for me and you too on this! I had no idea! I saw nothing on that website to indicate what this guy was really about...and I thank God for watching out for us too! Nate and I have been IN hell and I sure don't want to go back there again. Now I am not saying the Lord won't have me use natural things such as vitamines, homopathic stuff, etc, of course...we just have to be careful to stay within the boundries of what He set up for us is all.

I know you are posting out of concern and want to help but you are focusing on issues that are no longer issues and I am not sure why you are doing that. The food allergies are no longer an issue...we have figured out what is causing the demon dreams and Nate's dreams have since changed ...while they are still bad dreams they aren't waking him up in terror like before, and they aren't about demons anymore either. He is working through it and we can all continue praying for him on this.

God bless

robert82633
Jan 27th 2008, 12:56 PM
Moonglow
I hope you see this .Looking at the date you posted .I to have been through what Nat is going through with my Father .Bad dreams most of my life .Your son has a call from God on him .This is why Satan is attacking him .To stop Gods call on him .Satan uses fear to steal the AUTHORITY
OF CHRIST from him .I know this because I have been through it .Your battle will very long with out help .And you have to know what to do .
Because this can get dangerous for you and Nat .Jesus sent them out in two's .You say your church does not teach about demons find one that does .And knows what do to about it .Get to know them first .Have you forgiven your ex ?This will hinder you in warfare .My Father did bad things to my Sister .I found out when I was in my twentys.I hated the man with
all my heart .But he had a heart attack I didn't want go see him .But inside of welled up he is your Father .I went to see him .In that bed I seen
a little old man who needed me .All hate was gone .This man I seen was not my Father but my Dad again .I never seen him alive again .God put all
that togther .I have had demons around me as long as I can remeber .And
great fear most of my life .untill one day Satan apeared to me .I was spirit filled then .I was very scared at first .Then this great power welled up in me .I stuck my finger out at his nose and said I don't fear you .The fear left with him .Thats what you are fighting a spirit of fear .Then there is a curse to be broken .So the drugs and drinking stop before Nat grows in to it .The sins of the Father passed down generation to generation the Bible
tell us .But Jesus took the curse Isaih 53 tells us he bore the curse .Your
son is anoited of God .Satan does not Know what Nat is anoited for .But he can see the anoiting on him .So he lies to Nat to turn him from Gods path .Just as he did with me .The Father of lies as Jesus said .I know you do want Nat to know what you are doing .So do this .In the name Jesus
anoit with oil his bed and lie down on his bed an pray .Anoit the house with oil the doors and windows in name of Jesus .You need to have people who know about this kind of thing to pray over you and Nat .You need help in this .Because it will take many years to stop on your own if at all .Learn all you can about demons from the bible .Find christian books on the subject .And pray your butt off for faith Ask God to show you what needs to be taken care of in you .Ask God to seach your heart .And to show any area that hinder you in warfare .Find a spirit filled christain with strong faith to help you .Jesus said If any two come in agrement it will be done for them .This is why I say go in two's .Use the word of God aloud as Jesus did in the wilderness .Luke10:18 mark 16:17 to start off with .Take your authority in Christ .As you read ask the Holyspirit to help you understand .Father I take authority in the name Jesus and lift up to you
Nat and his Mother .I aply The blood of Jesus over them .Over there home
I ask for Angels to stand guard over them I aply the blood of Jesus over Nats mind heart and soul I aply the blood of Jesus Over Mooglows mind and heart .I pray for faith to fill them .I pray for victory in every area
of there lives in Jesus name amen

moonglow
Jan 30th 2008, 02:43 PM
Moonglow
I hope you see this .Looking at the date you posted .I to have been through what Nat is going through with my Father .Bad dreams most of my life .Your son has a call from God on him .This is why Satan is attacking him .To stop Gods call on him .Satan uses fear to steal the AUTHORITY
OF CHRIST from him .I know this because I have been through it .Your battle will very long with out help .And you have to know what to do .
Because this can get dangerous for you and Nat .Jesus sent them out in two's .You say your church does not teach about demons find one that does .And knows what do to about it .Get to know them first .Have you forgiven your ex ?This will hinder you in warfare .My Father did bad things to my Sister .I found out when I was in my twentys.I hated the man with
all my heart .But he had a heart attack I didn't want go see him .But inside of welled up he is your Father .I went to see him .In that bed I seen
a little old man who needed me .All hate was gone .This man I seen was not my Father but my Dad again .I never seen him alive again .God put all
that togther .I have had demons around me as long as I can remeber .And
great fear most of my life .untill one day Satan apeared to me .I was spirit filled then .I was very scared at first .Then this great power welled up in me .I stuck my finger out at his nose and said I don't fear you .The fear left with him .Thats what you are fighting a spirit of fear .Then there is a curse to be broken .So the drugs and drinking stop before Nat grows in to it .The sins of the Father passed down generation to generation the Bible
tell us .But Jesus took the curse Isaih 53 tells us he bore the curse .Your
son is anoited of God .Satan does not Know what Nat is anoited for .But he can see the anoiting on him .So he lies to Nat to turn him from Gods path .Just as he did with me .The Father of lies as Jesus said .I know you do want Nat to know what you are doing .So do this .In the name Jesus
anoit with oil his bed and lie down on his bed an pray .Anoit the house with oil the doors and windows in name of Jesus .You need to have people who know about this kind of thing to pray over you and Nat .You need help in this .Because it will take many years to stop on your own if at all .Learn all you can about demons from the bible .Find christian books on the subject .And pray your butt off for faith Ask God to show you what needs to be taken care of in you .Ask God to seach your heart .And to show any area that hinder you in warfare .Find a spirit filled christain with strong faith to help you .Jesus said If any two come in agrement it will be done for them .This is why I say go in two's .Use the word of God aloud as Jesus did in the wilderness .Luke10:18 mark 16:17 to start off with .Take your authority in Christ .As you read ask the Holyspirit to help you understand .Father I take authority in the name Jesus and lift up to you
Nat and his Mother .I aply The blood of Jesus over them .Over there home
I ask for Angels to stand guard over them I aply the blood of Jesus over Nats mind heart and soul I aply the blood of Jesus Over Mooglows mind and heart .I pray for faith to fill them .I pray for victory in every area
of there lives in Jesus name amen

Hello robert82633...its nice to meet you. I thank you for your concern and especially for your prayers for Nate and I.

Its come to my attention this posts, even though nearly a year old, has gotten some renewed interest on here so I wanted to address it.

Its a very long thread and the topic got kind of side tracked through it off and on and some posts removed which added to the confusion and people have missed how this was resolved...which it was. Nate no longer has this type of nightmares anymore. I really appreciate all the wonderful prayers and advise but this is just no longer an issue.

I am going to post the link to the posts on here where this was all finally resolved. Through the Lord's guidance, I figured out what was going on and once I explained it to Nate and he understood the demon's in his dreams were really his fear, anger, and confusion over his dad and how he treated him when he was little...the nightmares stopped. The just of it is when a child is being abused as Nate was, they still love that parent and the internal conflict is huge. Nate could not emotionally blame his dad, it would have been a betrayal...and he wanted so much for his dad to love him. So when he saw this devil face from the star wars movie everywhere when he was very young...it was scary and fixed in his mind. It was a 'safe' thing to project his bad feelings onto rather then onto his dad. I mean after all demons and devils are suppose to be bad, mean, frightening, horrible....dad's aren't suppose to be that way. Dad's are suppose to be safe, and loving and caring and accepting of their children. All that turmoil then of things that he was dealing with inside came out at night in the form of nightmares...it wasn't demons he was fighting or running from...it was his dad. If this hasn't rang true with him the nightmares would have continued. If it was a true spiritual attack, they would have continued. They haven't. They stopped.

For the detailed explanation about how the Lord helped me figure this all out, see this link which is a post on here that just got lost among all the other posts:

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1131911&postcount=55

Thanks all for all your prayers and advice..I am sure others will benefit by your posts. :)

God bless
Julie

proverbs29
Feb 2nd 2008, 05:23 AM
Is Nate saved? I know that he knows about God, but has he had a personal encounter? I know he is young.... and you as his mom, as much as you might like to, cannot fabricate an experience of God for him... but you can pray it over him. May God reveal Himself to Nate in a very personal and real way.

I see a couple of obvious issues (sorry to state the obvious)... demonic activity (doors opened perhaps resulting from a generation curse...paternally, sounds like...), a heightened sensitivity on Nates part, which will manifest as a blessing when he learns to tune the frequency into hearing and receiving Gods transmissions over the static of demonic play... and fear, of course.

We know that fear counters faith. And you cannot provide his faith or dispell his fear. Its not a burden you can put on yourself, reasonably. But you can and must dispell your own fear. Something in my gut just suggested that this demonic activity is trying to actually get you, and recognizes your son as your achilles heel so to speak. It wants to shake your faith... and what better way to get to a mom than through her child... especially making you doubt that your prayer for the dreams to stop will be answered.

Bear with me.

YOU MUST pray diligently for Nates dad. As hard as it may be.... i think a rift lies in whatever measure of unforgiveness you have toward him... and please know that I am not attacking you about this. Given the things you shared about his influence, I get how insanely difficult this could be. But pray for yourself to learn how to release him from unforgiveness, pray for his heart to be quickened to the revelation of Christs forgiveness and unconditional love. Remember according to Ephesians 6:12 that (as much as it may seem otherwise), he is NOT your enemy.

Lift both nate and his dad up to the Lord and surrender them into His Hands.... daily, hourly even! Remember and be encouraged that He knows the end from the beginning, and has made every provision to see you all through this victoriously! Thank Him that it is already done. Pray His Will for their lives. Thank Him, of course, for His Indwelling. Remember that He has not given us a spirit to fear, but of victory and a sound mind. Claim it, and teach nate to claim it.

Although I appreciate your rebuking in whispers to not spook your child... this will not teach your child to rebuke for himself. When you rebuke with faith filled confidence, you will provide an example and a testimony. Your son will feel the energy that you feel and emminate as you are filled with Christs cleansing spirit. Then, when he experiences the result of its working (because it is faith filled not fear filled), he will see from the example how to do it. With my daughter present, I tend not to use the term "demon" because it has a high fear factor... so I instead proclaim something along the lines of "this family (usually by name) and this home are the property of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and any who are not of His Kingdom are forbidden to be in our midst... must leave immediately... " etc... etc... "Thank you Lord that you fill this place with your presence and are radiating your everlasting Love and protection on us, your children. Thank you that your spirit lives in me. Thank you Lord that 1 jn. 4:4 assures us that we belong to You, and that as Your children, You are stronger in us than he who is in this world. The enemy is under my foot, a defeated foe.

Pardon me if this is elementary for you... I don't mean to imply that this is new stuff for you at all... simply not knowing you, I think its important to stress praying Gods word into the situation. That said... just a few more points which may or may not have already considered....

Speak the solution, not the problem. The devil and his minions are not omniscient (all knowing), and unlike God, who knows your heart and your thoughts.... the devil doesn't know what you are thinking or feeling until you open your mouth and give him the tools for his next attack. So speak your faith in Gods promises, and when it comes to addressing your fears, just set them before God under the veil of "God, you know whats in my heart"

And when you pray with Nate (or for Nate) rather than praying that nightmares don't come (inferring their power because of your concern expressed)... pray that God speak to Nate in his dreams. Thank God that he gave Nate the ability to have powerful dreams and recognize the ways that God can use dreams (Joseph comes to mind)... by being thankful for dreams and for Gods presence and protection... there is no window of fearing dreams left open.

I hope this makes sense, I am really beat and must go to bed, so I'm just going to be bold and post without reviewing it....

blessed dreams,
~sarai

Mercy4Me
Feb 4th 2008, 03:25 PM
This thread is being closed, as the original post is out of date and the problem has already been solved.