PDA

View Full Version : Twelve Ordinary Men - John



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

SeattleSun
Feb 11th 2007, 07:00 PM
Key passages from this section of the book: Mark 9:1-41; Ephesians 4:13-15.


1. JMac joins other biblical scholars who recognize how remarkable it is that one of the "Sons of Thunder" earned the nickname "the apostle of love" before he died. What three areas of love does the author indicate John wrote extensively about?


2. According to the author, John was not just preoccupied with love. He had such a zeal for the truth that it shaped the way he wrote. JMac writes, "Of all the writers in the New Testament, he is the most black and white in his thinking" (p. 97). What examples does JMac use?

The Parson
Feb 11th 2007, 09:52 PM
Approved and ready to go. Look forward to this one.

Cloudwalker
Feb 12th 2007, 01:21 AM
A bit off topic but please be praying for me and the other administrators of another web ministry. We seem to have an issue to deal with that will require whisdom.

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 03:58 AM
Father, Creator of all the stars and all the grains of sand, please, I lift up these good people who are laboring in Your name. They are good servants to You whose goal is to bring Glory to You. I pray that You give them the answers they are seeking to continue their good works. Thank you Father, for the tools you've given us to carry out Your great commission. May the Holy Spirit fill their cups with Your wisdom to continue their work in order to give You the fruit of their labor.

In Jesus' Divine Name,
Amen

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 04:56 PM
JMac's introductory questions, the best is yet to come. Let's get these out of the way and get ready to dig in. :)


1. JMac joins other biblical scholars who recognize how remarkable it is that one of the "Sons of Thunder" earned the nickname "the apostle of love" before he died. What three areas of love does the author indicate John wrote extensively about?


Christians' love of Christ
Christ's love for His church

Our love for one another



2. According to the author, John was not just preoccupied with love. He had such a zeal for the truth that it shaped the way he wrote. JMac writes, "Of all the writers in the New Testament, he is the most black and white in his thinking" (p. 97). What examples does JMac use?

He uses a lot. :lol: Light against darkness, life against death, the kingdom of God against the kingdom of the devil, the children of God against the children of Satan, the judgment of the righteous against the judgment of the wicked, the resurrection of life against the resurrection of damnation, receiving Christ against rejecting Christ, fruit against fruitlessness, obedience against disobedience, and love against hatred.


John drew a clear line. He had to live a long time to achieve the balance of truth and love, and reading the chapter, it can be a real high wire act. I love what JMac wrote: "That is why when I read heavy doses of John, I sometimes have to turn to Paul's epistles just to find some breathing space." I know what he means ... Paul understands and sympathizes with us. Not that John doesn't, but stumbling is more evident to me with John. They both assure us that we'll get back up. Praise Jesus!

Mercy4Me
Feb 12th 2007, 05:14 PM
Good morning! I'll pray for wisdom for you, CW.

Good points, Sonja...I won't try to answer these because you've already done so very well! I never thought of John as being so black and white until I read this chapter, but I think JMac's right. Love and truth...great things to be passionate about!

I've never thought of needing a "break" from John. I guess I look at all of scripture as being God-breathed, even though individual author's personalities come through...but everything they write comes from God Himself, so I don't tend to look at one author or another as being too "anything". It's an interesting thought, that God communicated His truths through each author in different ways, with balance throughout.

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 06:17 PM
I've never thought of needing a "break" from John. I guess I look at all of scripture as being God-breathed, even though individual author's personalities come through...but everything they write comes from God Himself, so I don't tend to look at one author or another as being too "anything". It's an interesting thought, that God communicated His truths through each author in different ways, with balance throughout.


Hi Mercy! :kiss: How's your family doing? :pray:

I never really thought about it either until I read JMac's comments. I need that sort of comment to study from a different perspective and to be more observant. I feel like he's given me a new study tool -- read beyond the "beloved children" and find the real admonitions and wisdom John's imparts.

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 07:06 PM
The theme of love flows through his writings. But love was a quality he learned from Christ, not something that came naturally to him. In his younger years, he was as much a Son of Thunder as James. If you imagine that John was the way he is often portrayed in medieval art -- a meek, mild, pale-skinned, effeminate person, lying around on Jesus' shoulder looking up at Him with a dove-eyed stare -- forget that caricature. He was rugged and hard-edged, just like the rest of the fishermen disciples. And again, he was every bit as intolerant, ambitious, zealous, and explosive as his elder brother. Twelve Ordinary Men, pp. 68


3. JMac's description of John in the sidebar above references John's preoccupation with love but also his natural tendencies that were more akin to those who shared his occupation as a fisherman. How does the author explain the change that occurred in John?

Here's a painting by an unknown artist from circa 1320. That's supposed to be John.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/JOHNPIC12.jpg

jesuslover1968
Feb 12th 2007, 07:27 PM
I found it. I am looking forward to it as well. I have stepped down as mod on the endtimes forum, so I will have plenty of time to study up, and am anxious to do so. God Bless.

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 07:43 PM
I found it. I am looking forward to it as well. I have stepped down as mod on the endtimes forum, so I will have plenty of time to study up, and am anxious to do so. God Bless.

Misty...:kiss: :hug: We need you over here, http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/klemgruppe.gifanyway...lots to learn through John.

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 07:46 PM
Hey you guys...isn't it from the Last Supper painting, where John looks like a girl that they based that crazy notion that John was really Mary Magdalene? :rolleyes:

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 07:47 PM
http://gim.gupshup.org/gal/H/da-vinci-last-supper-copy19605_5815974.JPG
This is what I'm talking about...

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 07:51 PM
I found it. I am looking forward to it as well. I have stepped down as mod on the endtimes forum, so I will have plenty of time to study up, and am anxious to do so. God Bless.

:hug: As long as you're happy! We've missed you very much! So I'm happy in a selfish sort of way! :kiss:

jesuslover1968
Feb 12th 2007, 07:55 PM
Thanx guys. :hug: I feel better already. Didn't realize how drained I was about my indecision. God Bless.

jesuslover1968
Feb 12th 2007, 07:56 PM
Misty...:kiss: :hug: We need you over here, anyway...lots to learn through John.


Thank you.http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/klemgruppe.gif Yes there is a lot to learn. I just read John again the other day. :pp God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 07:56 PM
Hey you guys...isn't it from the Last Supper painting, where John looks like a girl that they based that crazy notion that John was really Mary Magdalene? :rolleyes:


Its from a different Last Supper painting. This is an interesting site, and yeah, its hard to tell John from Mary sometimes. Lots of artists copied Leonardo, and put their own spin on the event.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/LeonardoLastSupper.htm

Scroll halfway down for examples of "St." John by other artists.

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 08:01 PM
The one I posted is the one by Da Vinci...it's just a restored version.

Mercy4Me
Feb 12th 2007, 08:18 PM
Man, I walk away from the computer for 10 minutes, and you all show up and start gabbing without me!!! :o

Misty, WELCOME HOME! It's about time!!! :thumbsup: You have been missed. You can only be in so many forums at one time, you know...:D

So that's supposed to be John? Hmph! We know better!

Sonja, thanks for asking about my family...still have the boys; my daughter should be here anytime to pick them up. I talked to her last night, and they had only made it through the lists for entryway, kitchen, and furnace room, after a FULL day of hard work. She said they were going to try to stay up all night and finish, but I didn't get a chance to find out how it went.

My husband's aunt died early this morning; she was everybody's favorite aunt, and kind of a second mother to Bill (and me)...so we've been a little weepy around here today. My husband works in the funeral business, and has been away all day helping taking care of things.

When it rains, it pours...but at least we're not snowed in anymore. Bill finally got the last of the driveway cleared yesterday!

How's everybody else doing???

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 08:22 PM
Aw, Mercy...I'm so sorry to hear about your aunt. :hug: And a favorite aunt, at that...:kiss:

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 08:23 PM
Wonder how John feels about being confused with Mary Magdelene? :rofl:

Or better yet...wonder how Mary feels about being confused with John?:lol:

Mercy4Me
Feb 12th 2007, 08:25 PM
Wonder how John feels about being confused with Mary Magdelene? :rofl:

Or better yet...wonder how Mary feels about being confused with John?:lol:


Good point! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 08:27 PM
I'm so sorry about your Aunt Mercy. :hug: She was blessed to be so loved. That's the best testament a person can have.

Sheesh, jerky landlord. Knowingly doing that to them. I pray they're not out any of their own money because of him, and they shouldn't be.



So that's supposed to be John? Hmph! We know better!



:rofl: I can imagine what the Son of Thunder would say about that. The Samaritans got off easy.

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 08:40 PM
I'll give this one a shot!


The theme of love flows through his writings. But love was a quality he learned from Christ, not something that came naturally to him. In his younger years, he was as much a Son of Thunder as James. If you imagine that John was the way he is often portrayed in medieval art -- a meek, mild, pale-skinned, effeminate person, lying around on Jesus' shoulder looking up at Him with a dove-eyed stare -- forget that caricature. He was rugged and hard-edged, just like the rest of the fishermen disciples. And again, he was every bit as intolerant, ambitious, zealous, and explosive as his elder brother. Twelve Ordinary Men, pp. 68


Yep, those paintings ...



3. JMac's description of John in the sidebar above references John's preoccupation with love but also his natural tendencies that were more akin to those who shared his occupation as a fisherman. How does the author explain the change that occurred in John?



His three 1/2 years with Christ!

I love how JMac puts this: "At the very points where he was the most imbalanced, Christ gave him equilibrium, and in the process John was transformed from a bigoted hothead into a loving, godly elder statesman for the early church."

Peter (all of them actually) was spiritually dense, John was spiritually imbalanced, along with dense. :D Look what happened with God molding them for His purposes. And all for His glory and for our benefit too -- the church! Its hard to articulate how so very inspiring and joyful this is for me. I'll get down on myself or impatient and I have to think of the apostles. The least becoming the great by His work. I'm never going to some great Christian hero, but whatever His plans are for me, I can be a success. Well, if I pay attention and obey.

MsLibby
Feb 12th 2007, 10:03 PM
I'm never going to some great Christian hero,


You don't know that, Sonja!!! If you lead ONE person to Him, then you are a great hero. Don't put yourself (or Him, either) in a box like that! :mad: You have NO idea the great things He can use you for!

SeattleSun
Feb 12th 2007, 10:15 PM
You don't know that, Sonja!!! If you lead ONE person to Him, then you are a great hero. Don't put yourself (or Him, either) in a box like that! :mad: You have NO idea the great things He can use you for!

:hug: I meant like our twelve ordinary men. :lol: Or at least 11 of them. 12 with Paul.

I'll be equipped for whatever it is He needs me to do! But I really don't think I'll be starting a church.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 03:21 PM
Hey girls, and guy. :)

I'm having trouble with this love business. Zeal ~ no problem. :) Lovin everyone ~ big problem. :(

How do I love someone I don't even like? I'm not talking family...of course I understand that part. Many times I don't like my own familiy but I always love them. It's the 'world' I'm talking about. I honestly have a natural aversion to people who don't love Jesus. I know I'm commanded to love them, and I often pray for them, but I don't love them. I try to, but I don't. I don't even like them. I'm not talking about friends who don't know God...I'm talking about just people. For instance, I work with a Hindu...he's arrogant, he's rude, he's opiniated, and I don't like him. I don't like his god, I don't like his attitude and I don't like him. So...how do I love him?

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 04:12 PM
Hey girls, and guy. :)

I'm having trouble with this love business. Zeal ~ no problem. :) Lovin everyone ~ big problem. :(

How do I love someone I don't even like? I'm not talking family...of course I understand that part. Many times I don't like my own familiy but I always love them. It's the 'world' I'm talking about. I honestly have a natural aversion to people who don't love Jesus. I know I'm commanded to love them, and I often pray for them, but I don't love them. I try to, but I don't. I don't even like them. I'm not talking about friends who don't know God...I'm talking about just people. For instance, I work with a Hindu...he's arrogant, he's rude, he's opiniated, and I don't like him. I don't like his god, I don't like his attitude and I don't like him. So...how do I love him?

Well! What a question to wake up to this morning! Okay, I'll do my best with my limited understanding..

Let's take your Hindu co-worker. Let's call him Fred. Now, would you like to see Fred go to hell? Do you believe he deserves it? Do you believe he deserves it any more than you? Or me? If you were to hear that Fred's wife and children were all killed in a car accident, would you rejoice?

Well, I think the answers to all those things would be no...that, to me, would be love. You would have concern about the state of his soul; you would not rejoice to see him weep. If you had a chance, would you lead him to the Lord? If he came up to you and asked you to tell him about your faith, would you do it? Of course you would! What you're describing seems to me like "liking" someone. You don't like his behavior, his attitudes, his false god, his lifestyle, his sin, his ______...whatever...but Libby, I know you well enough to know that you have a deep desire to see people brought to Christ...any and all people. Love isn't a fuzzy warm feeling when you think of someone. It's wanting what's best for them, no matter what they're like. You would never wish evil on anyone. You would desire for all men to come to a saving knowledge of Christ. This is love.

It's different than family love, or friendship love. It's a manifestation of the love of God, which is also tempered with the justice of God, the holiness of God, the wrath of God. God wants all men to be saved...He is their creator, and I believe His love for mankind is different than ours because He is Father to everyone, the same way you love your children as their mother. In this way, He can love people more intensely than we can, and forgive the way we forgive our children.

I guess what I'm stumbling around to say is that our "love" for people will be a human, more detached love than God's, but nevertheless the Holy Spirit within us will enable us to care about their welfare. Think of those ungodly people who have no concern about the welfare of others...the HS has no input into their lives, and they can do brutal, selfish things constantly. That is the opposite of God's love in us toward others.

Now, I know that there are people with a great burden to see lost souls come to Christ...that agonize over the souls of everyone they come in contact with. I believe these people are the ones who have the gift of evangelism...you may have a different gift (or maybe not!). I also believe that we can grow in love over the course of our Christian walk. Even though you were a Christian since childhood, you've only recently allowed Him to control your thoughts, attitudes, behaviors. I firmly believe you will grow in your ability to love others. Maybe that's something you can ask God to grow in you.

Gotta stop; too much typing...this is my :2cents: and I'm not wording it very well. I may revisit it when I can type some more...:hug: :kiss:

jesuslover1968
Feb 13th 2007, 04:16 PM
Hey girls, and guy. :)

I'm having trouble with this love business. Zeal ~ no problem. :) Lovin everyone ~ big problem. :(

How do I love someone I don't even like? I'm not talking family...of course I understand that part. Many times I don't like my own familiy but I always love them. It's the 'world' I'm talking about. I honestly have a natural aversion to people who don't love Jesus. I know I'm commanded to love them, and I often pray for them, but I don't love them. I try to, but I don't. I don't even like them. I'm not talking about friends who don't know God...I'm talking about just people. For instance, I work with a Hindu...he's arrogant, he's rude, he's opiniated, and I don't like him. I don't like his god, I don't like his attitude and I don't like him. So...how do I love him?


Hey everybody! :wave:
Let me try to answer that question. When we are commanded to love our neighbor and such, I don't think it is the same kind of love that we show people such as our parents, children and friends. I think it is the kind of love that causes us to pray for them. To be concerned for their soul condition. To be respectful and ready to witness to them if we have the opportunity. There are always going to be people we don't like, such as your co-worker, our enemies, and people that are just downright mean and unlikeable. I think it is that we are to be concerned for them with love, to worry about their soul condition and be ready to stand in the gap for them, despite the fact that we don't even like them. THAT is love. It is a selfless love that has no rewards except our acknowledgement that we did what we could in the way of offering them the gospel. Though this is a rather clumsy explanation, I hope it helps. I know everyone here has experienced not liking certain people, and yet praying for them, anyway. :) :hug:
Mercy~ I am so sorry to hear about your aunt. I am also sorry you are going through such a rough time. I will pray for you.
Sonja~ I am glad to be back and see that you are growing with leaps and bounds. :pp :hug:
Cloudwalker~ I haven't gotten the chance to know you yet, but am looking forward to it. :hug:

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 04:23 PM
Misty...you said it so much better than me.

I'm so glad you're back! :hug:

I need to stay off the computer for a little while, I think...but I'll read!

:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

jesuslover1968
Feb 13th 2007, 04:30 PM
Misty...you said it so much better than me.

I'm so glad you're back! :hug:

I need to stay off the computer for a little while, I think...but I'll read!

:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:


I liked the way you said it! :hug: I was trying to convey exactly what you said, but my brain is not cooperating with my fingers...:lol: :hug: :hug: God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 04:31 PM
Good morning! :hug:

Libby bursts into the room with guns blazing! What wonderful responses, and it sure makes sense.

I just don't think I'm able to do that yet. :( To be honest, if I don't like someone, like Fred, the last thing I'm going to be concerned about is his soul. I mean, it never even occurs to me, except maybe a fleeting thought of "you're not a Christian". That's it. That's also wrong.

This subject would be an excellent study in itself. One thing I've learned already is I need to look at all the Freds in another light. His light.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 04:59 PM
Let's take your Hindu co-worker. Let's call him Fred. Now, would you like to see Fred go to hell? Do you believe he deserves it? Do you believe he deserves it any more than you? Or me? If you were to hear that Fred's wife and children were all killed in a car accident, would you rejoice?


Ok ~ here's the thing. Great questions, btw. Sometimes when I see Fred, I will say a quick prayer, that he will find the Truth. I do care about his soul...very much, actually. I care about all the people I don't like souls. I care for their souls, but not them. Does that make any sense? I get weary of people who reject Christ. I don't want them to suffer, I don't harbor any ill will towards them, I just don't like them. And I've prayed for Him to give me more love, but He hasn't yet. I'm fully aware that I can't make myself love more. Only He can. But to answer your question ~ no, I don't rejoice when bad things happen, but the truth is, aside from their eternal life, I just don't care FOR them. They irritate me.


Well, I think the answers to all those things would be no...that, to me, would be love. You would have concern about the state of his soul; you would not rejoice to see him weep. If you had a chance, would you lead him to the Lord? If he came up to you and asked you to tell him about your faith, would you do it? Of course you would! What you're describing seems to me like "liking" someone. You don't like his behavior, his attitudes, his false god, his lifestyle, his sin, his ______...whatever...but Libby, I know you well enough to know that you have a deep desire to see people brought to Christ...any and all people. Love isn't a fuzzy warm feeling when you think of someone. It's wanting what's best for them, no matter what they're like. You would never wish evil on anyone. You would desire for all men to come to a saving knowledge of Christ. This is love.


You put this so well, Mercy. I do desire they come to Christ, but I hate their lack of Him. So, if my desire they come to know the true and living God is love, then, ok...I do love them. Maybe this is what I've been wondering. I think maybe I think I should feel fuzzy about them...and I sure don't. But if what you say is true, then I'm ok. :) Thanks, this helps. Now...what about the irritation I feel? :lol:



It's different than family love, or friendship love. It's a manifestation of the love of God, which is also tempered with the justice of God, the holiness of God, the wrath of God. God wants all men to be saved...He is their creator, and I believe His love for mankind is different than ours because He is Father to everyone, the same way you love your children as their mother. In this way, He can love people more intensely than we can, and forgive the way we forgive our children.


Hmmm...maybe only God can love them with a holy love? That makes it easier to understand...


I guess what I'm stumbling around to say is that our "love" for people will be a human, more detached love than God's, but nevertheless the Holy Spirit within us will enable us to care about their welfare. Think of those ungodly people who have no concern about the welfare of others...the HS has no input into their lives, and they can do brutal, selfish things constantly. That is the opposite of God's love in us toward others.


Mine is MUCH more detached than God's. But in my heart, yes, I do want them to be saved. And if I had a chance, I would certainly witness to them. I get weary of having to stand up for Christ to unbelievers, though. I think it's my job to tell them, not to convert them. My own family keeps me busy enough...these strangers...I mean, just look around. Most people in my world don't have a clue. They are ignorant of Him, not cause they don't know better, but because they don't WANT TO KNOW BETTER. That's when I get so highly irritated with them. Here in America...the Word is EVERYWHERE. The internet, the tv, the radio...there's no excuse, none, for people to not know about Him. Not here in America. And that contributes to my impatience with them. I really almost feel scorn for them, because they reject Him. And that's what I think is NOT love. The scorn I feel...I don't feel pity...I feel scorn. They chose to not find Him. At least that's how I look at it. Of course, I'm a pretty no-nonsense person..that's my personality. And God gave me this personality...so ~ you see what I'm saying? I get tired of all these people who not only don't know Him, but who have made a CHOICE not to know Him. That's when I feel the scorn.



I firmly believe you will grow in your ability to love others. Maybe that's something you can ask God to grow in you.


I'm praying for it. Many many times I pray that He will grow my heart. BUT...my desire for their salvation is there, it's my understanding of their rejecting Him that is there, too....that's when I stop liking them. I'll keep praying...cause the truth is, they just get on my nerves.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 05:02 PM
Let me try to answer that question. When we are commanded to love our neighbor and such, I don't think it is the same kind of love that we show people such as our parents, children and friends. I think it is the kind of love that causes us to pray for them. To be concerned for their soul condition. To be respectful and ready to witness to them if we have the opportunity. There are always going to be people we don't like, such as your co-worker, our enemies, and people that are just downright mean and unlikeable. I think it is that we are to be concerned for them with love, to worry about their soul condition and be ready to stand in the gap for them, despite the fact that we don't even like them. THAT is love. It is a selfless love that has no rewards except our acknowledgement that we did what we could in the way of offering them the gospel. Though this is a rather clumsy explanation, I hope it helps. I know everyone here has experienced not liking certain people, and yet praying for them, anyway.


Ok, guys...Misty, you're basically saying the same thing Mercy did. Help me understand this? I don't need to like them...I just need to pray for their salvation? Is that right? I already know not to want harm to come to them...and I don't. But, if I pray for them, is that love?

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 05:04 PM
I just don't think I'm able to do that yet. :( To be honest, if I don't like someone, like Fred, the last thing I'm going to be concerned about is his soul. I mean, it never even occurs to me, except maybe a fleeting thought of "you're not a Christian". That's it. That's also wrong.



Well, at least you're honest... :lol:

I do differ from you a little in this... I truly DO care for their souls. I want EVERYONE saved. I really do. I have a deep burden for their salvation...it's just their bodies I don't like. Or their personalities...or their blatant, willfull rejection of our Lord and Savior. That almost repulses me.

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 05:31 PM
Mine is MUCH more detached than God's. But in my heart, yes, I do want them to be saved. And if I had a chance, I would certainly witness to them. I get weary of having to stand up for Christ to unbelievers, though. I think it's my job to tell them, not to convert them. My own family keeps me busy enough...these strangers...I mean, just look around. Most people in my world don't have a clue. They are ignorant of Him, not cause they don't know better, but because they don't WANT TO KNOW BETTER. That's when I get so highly irritated with them. Here in America...the Word is EVERYWHERE. The internet, the tv, the radio...there's no excuse, none, for people to not know about Him. Not here in America. And that contributes to my impatience with them. I really almost feel scorn for them, because they reject Him. And that's what I think is NOT love. The scorn I feel...I don't feel pity...I feel scorn. They chose to not find Him. At least that's how I look at it. Of course, I'm a pretty no-nonsense person..that's my personality. And God gave me this personality...so ~ you see what I'm saying? I get tired of all these people who not only don't know Him, but who have made a CHOICE not to know Him. That's when I feel the scorn.



Dear, sweet Libby...they are blind. They are spiritually blind, and living in darkness, no matter how much light is around them. Some of them choose to stay there, some love the darkness rather than the light. Some don't know any better, some are trapped in darkness with no way of knowing how to get out. When you are feeling scorn for them...remember you, too, were in darkness; so was Sonja, so was I. I think you do have love for people, but maybe not a lot of compassion. You have great gifts from God...you are bold and zealous. This is the way God designed you to be. Not everybody will be a John, and God didn't try to turn all the other disciples into one. But maybe if you ask Him to temper your scorn with compassion, you will see growth in this area, and find less irritation with people. :hug: :hug:

I also want to be perfectly honest here, like you and Sonja...my biggest problem is not scorn, it's apathy. I lose sight of the eternal, and I fail to have compassion on them as Jesus did, like sheep without a shepherd, harassed and helpless. Oh, God, forgive me for my lack of (com)PASSION for the lost...

Typing, again...I can't help it. I love you guys so much, and am so blessed that we can be honest with each other about these things...iron sharpens iron, and may we be used in each other's lives to sharpen and encourage and build up! I know you have done this for me! :hug: :kiss:

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 05:55 PM
Maybe I have a lot more growing to do before I get to this point. I see what you're all saying. I'm not John either, not even Son of Thunder John before the Holy Spirit gave him balance. I'm not intolerant or apathetic, its just sometimes I feel its hopeless. Which is wrong! With God, everything is possible. I know that!

People I know aren't so much blind, they're defiantly anti-Jesus. Since I've become a Christian, some of them won't give me the time of day. In His mercy, He's put a whole new bunch of people in my life. You guys, others here and real life Christians right here in Seattle I can even give a hug to. :lol:

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 06:31 PM
Maybe I have a lot more growing to do before I get to this point. I see what you're all saying. I'm not John either, not even Son of Thunder John before the Holy Spirit gave him balance. I'm not intolerant or apathetic, its just sometimes I feel its hopeless. Which is wrong! With God, everything is possible. I know that!

People I know aren't so much blind, they're defiantly anti-Jesus. Since I've become a Christian, some of them won't give me the time of day. In His mercy, He's put a whole new bunch of people in my life. You guys, others here and real life Christians right here in Seattle I can even give a hug to. :lol:

By "blind" I don't mean they can't see or hear the gospel, but that they don't have spiritual eyes to understand and accept it. I don't exactly know how this works...just that the god of this world has blinded their eyes through various means. That applies even to those who are defiant against Jesus, and Christians. They don't know the truth. They don't understand the consequences of rejecting Him. Did you, when you weren't a Christian? I'm not sure anyone would knowingly choose hell over heaven just so they could thumb their noses at God during this lifetime. Well, maybe I'm naive, though...but I think if someone REALLY knew for a fact that hell existed and they were destined for it if they didn't give their lives over to God, people would have a different response.

Like I said, I could be wrong, and naive about this. I think it's natural to get frustrated, irritated, even angry about people rejecting Christ! Libby, maybe "compassion" is not at all what you lack...in fact, I actually think you have a lot of compassion toward those you care about, like us! It's almost like you care so much about people, that it reaches a point of frustration at their blindness. As we talked about before with James, a fiery passion and zeal is so much better than cold compromise, or apathy, as in my case. It makes life harder, though...harder on you, because you do care so deeply.

I've been thinking about this since my last post...I think I'm wrong. I think (com)passion is what you're very strong in, Libby. Maybe just knowing how to deal with it? How to channel it in positive ways? I don't know...I'm out of my realm here, because it's not me, and I can't relate. I just find myself going back to the example of Jesus, a perfect combination of passion, compassion, zeal, gentleness, meekness, righteousness...even in His "woes" when He blasted the Pharisees, I believe it was the agony of a Father who was watching His children destroy themselves, right before His eyes.

All right, even as I think about this more, maybe there ARE people who would thumb their noses at God, because they are too rebellious and independent to ever put themselves under His control. Obviously there are people who follow Satan, and who KNOW there's such a place as hell. Do you think they realize how they will suffer there?

These are heavy thoughts...I hope you guys can respond. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts, too. It may not be completely on topic, but I don't think it's off topic, either...???

jesuslover1968
Feb 13th 2007, 06:35 PM
Ok, guys...Misty, you're basically saying the same thing Mercy did. Help me understand this? I don't need to like them...I just need to pray for their salvation? Is that right? I already know not to want harm to come to them...and I don't. But, if I pray for them, is that love?

Luke 19:35-45

35And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.


36And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
37And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
39And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
40And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
41And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. 45And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;


Matthew 23:37
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Luke 23:33-34
33And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.


There's a lot to learn by verses such as these when it comes to love and what it means exactly in the context that it was written.
There are people that I do not like. I don't like what they do, I don't want to be around them. But I still pray for them.
There was this certain person, I did not like this person, period. I was very bitter and resentful, and felt wronged by this person. For the longest time, I let these feelings take over inside me. That gave this person, as well as the devil, a stronghold over me. By having these feelings of animosity, I had no power over them. I finally broke down and began to pray for this person because I DID feel so bitter and it was affecting almost everything I did. At first, I felt like a hypocrit because I didn't really care about whether this person was well, saved, or even alive...:o then, gradually, as I asked the Lord to change my heart, it began to change. I finally started actually wanting to pray for this person. After some time, I began to actually care whether this person was well, saved or even alive. My heart began to change concerning this person, and my life began to go forward again. When I lost all the negative feelings I had for this person, those intense feelings disappeared and I was no longer angry and unloving toward this person. I was able to forgive this person. When we do not forgive others, it reflects on us. We have to forgive in order to be forgiven. That's just how it works. Not being able to forgive is a way to let us know that this is an area we need to work on through prayer. We have to have compassion and concern for even those who we don't like at all. If we don't, how can we expect God to have compassion and concern and forgiveness for us? We are all terrible sinners in God's eyes. It doesn't matter whether it's a big sin, or a little one, a sin is a sin in His eyes. He forgave us, how much better do we think we are that we have the right not to forgive others?( even if it's just to forgive them for being unlikeable...:lol: ) That is what I think that kind of love means. There are many definitions of love, and many different levels of love. We have to understand what each kind of love spoken of in the Bible means, and then apply it, which we can only do through the Holy Spirit because we have a fallen nature.
The way you feel is not abnormal at all. We all feel that way. We just have to learn individually what it is we have to work on. Realizing that we are no better than they in God's eyes. Being compasionate is something we must learn to do at times. A good way to do that is to put ourselves in the other person's shoes. It then can become apparent that we are more like these people than we'd like to think, even if it's in different ways than we realized. :hug: :kiss: God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 06:40 PM
I've been pondering this whole thing.

Romans 7:
13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.


This is hard! I'm supposed to care about all the Freds. Paul tells me how:

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.


I'm gonna pray. The Spirit will help me with my Freds. :) Maybe not today or next week, but one day. Took John quite awhile too before he didn't want to call down fire from Heaven.

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 07:23 PM
Lots of wisdom there, Misty. Thanks! I needed it! :hug:

Sonja, you're right...look at that wrestling match we all had. I believe this scripture reflects the state of an unbeliever under conviction, or a carnal Christian who's not walking by the Spirit. It's such a wretched state to be in, isn't it? I've been there...Amen, thanks be to God! I am probably there even now, more than I realize. I know I'm not feeling a lot of peace or joy at present!

Ah...got to stop...i love you guys! :hug:

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 07:28 PM
Wow. You guys are good today. So much to think about! Everything you all wrote I want to respond to! I can't, possibly...but I want to attempt to at least get the meat of the matter.

Isn't God good? Guess what? I'm having some personal issues today...not a good day. And am really wanting to understand more of this 'love' business...well...at lunch I went out to sulk in my car and try to just catch my breath and speak with God. As usual, He didn't disappoint me. He gave me my own personal tutor! Isn't that just like Him???? I turned on my radio and guess what the lesson was? Some preacher I don't even know was talking about 'what does it mean to love thy neighbor'!!!! I just love it when He does this kind of stuff...isn't He SO REAL for us??? I've got lots to share on what I learned...but first I want to address some of your thoughts.



Dear, sweet Libby...they are blind. They are spiritually blind, and living in darkness, no matter how much light is around them. Some of them choose to stay there, some love the darkness rather than the light. Some don't know any better, some are trapped in darkness with no way of knowing how to get out. When you are feeling scorn for them...remember you, too, were in darkness; so was Sonja, so was I. I think you do have love for people, but maybe not a lot of compassion. You have great gifts from God...you are bold and zealous. This is the way God designed you to be. Not everybody will be a John, and God didn't try to turn all the other disciples into one. But maybe if you ask Him to temper your scorn with compassion, you will see growth in this area, and find less irritation with people


Yes, Mercy...they ARE blind. Spiritually blind. Some don't know better, some don't want to know better. It's the ones who don't want to know Him that I get so extremely irritated at.

I do pray for more compassion for me. I know I have the zeal, I have the passion, it's the COMpassion I struggle with. Now that I really understand the problem, it'll be easier to pray for this. Can't fix it til you know what exactly is broken! :)



Oh, God, forgive me for my lack of (com)PASSION for the lost...



lol ~ I'll pray with you on this. I've got the passion, you've got the com. We need to balance them together. ;)



Libby, maybe "compassion" is not at all what you lack...in fact, I actually think you have a lot of compassion toward those you care about, like us! It's almost like you care so much about people, that it reaches a point of frustration at their blindness. As we talked about before with James, a fiery passion and zeal is so much better than cold compromise, or apathy, as in my case. It makes life harder, though...harder on you, because you do care so deeply.

I've been thinking about this since my last post...I think I'm wrong. I think (com)passion is what you're very strong in, Libby. Maybe just knowing how to deal with it? How to channel it in positive ways?


I think you might be right in this, Mercy. I believe I do have the zeal, the passion. But I'm lacking the COMpassion. I do want so badly for people to come to Him, and I get so frustrated at their ignorance. It's like knowing the truth and watching these people just throw it away. It is almost painful for me. And that's where I don't do the balancing act...the compassion is much harder for me...the passion is my nature. I will pray for a balance in this. AS you said...to channel it. Well said!



All right, even as I think about this more, maybe there ARE people who would thumb their noses at God, because they are too rebellious and independent to ever put themselves under His control. Obviously there are people who follow Satan, and who KNOW there's such a place as hell. Do you think they realize how they will suffer there?



Yep. I KNOW there are lots of people who 'thumb' their noses at God because of rebellion, pride, selfishness...whatever. They chose to follow Satan. And nope, I don't believe they know what's coming. How could they? They've made pains to NOT see. The blind follow the blind and where do they end up? In a ditch...together.



We have to have compassion and concern for even those who we don't like at all. If we don't, how can we expect God to have compassion and concern and forgiveness for us? We are all terrible sinners in God's eyes. It doesn't matter whether it's a big sin, or a little one, a sin is a sin in His eyes. He forgave us, how much better do we think we are that we have the right not to forgive others?( even if it's just to forgive them for being unlikeable...:lol: ) That is what I think that kind of love means. There are many definitions of love, and many different levels of love. We have to understand what each kind of love spoken of in the Bible means, and then apply it, which we can only do through the Holy Spirit because we have a fallen nature.



Oh Misty...YES, we are fallen. And thank God for His grace!! Where would I be without His grace...on a dark and dreary road to nowhere. I've learned a few lessons in this, what you wrote about...you know, praying for people you don't like, I've learned a bit on this in our journey...you know what I mean. I've got to say, I've a ways to go. :) I'm thinking it's sorta what Mercy was saying...thumbing their noses...but that's a whole nuther story there. I have learned a lot through this ~ I think it's safe to say we both have...you agree?


This is hard! I'm supposed to care about all the Freds. Paul tells me how:


I'm laughing, Sonja...yep, we're supposed to care about all the Freds. :hug:

I love you guys so much. Can't wait for CW's input. I am learning so very much with you all...as we share these lessons ~ what a blessing He's given us with each other.

K...I've got to take care of something, but can't wait to share what I learned about this love stuff...I'll be back in a minute.

Keep the great thoughts coming...so much to learn!!

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 07:49 PM
There was someone at the door ... the Jehovah's Witnesses! :o They haven't been at my door in over 20 years!

I tried to witness to them. :)







They fled -- politely. :(

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 07:50 PM
well...at lunch I went out to sulk in my car


:rofl: :rofl: This is cute :D

Can't wait to hear what he (He) had to say to us!

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 07:53 PM
There was someone at the door ... the Jehovah's Witnesses! :o They haven't been at my door in over 20 years!

I tried to witness to them. :)







They fled -- politely. :(
Glad you spoke up...sorry they fled. Now what's gonna happen to me and Misty?

jesuslover1968
Feb 13th 2007, 08:00 PM
Glad you spoke up...sorry they fled. Now what's gonna happen to me and Misty?


:lol: All I can say to Sonja is ~ quit yer whinin', the Mormons won't even come to my door anymore...:cry: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :D
Mercy~ we are scrappers, we can always make it...LOL.
Libby~ Yes, I have learned a lot. What is really amazing is that we all have these deep dark truths in our minds, sitting in the cobwebs, just waiting for us self-righteous fallen people to come to the knowledge of them...:lol: God is Great! He gives us the answers, we just have to accept them! :hug: :kiss: God Bless.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:06 PM
What I learned on my lunch break:

I know I was aware of the different kinds of love...you guys probably are too. English is so limited. Good thing God knew better than to let the English write the Bible...it'd be pretty minimal. :) I heard some pastor say, the other day, that he believes that God allowed Alexander the Great to conquer the known world for the express reason of bringing the Greek language to the world so that the Bible could be written in it. Could be...it's an interesting thought. Couple that with Hebrew was created for the express purpose OF communicating with God...all this to just reiterated how limited our English version is.

Ok...the three kinds of love:

Eros ~ which is (according to this preacher I heard) egocentric. I thought it was sexual, but he explained that not only is it sexual, but it's geared towards self pleasure, hence the ego business...we know that's not what love we are to have for one another. Thank goodness...

Philia ~ Mutual. (or brotherly) meaning both parties derive some sort of satisfaction from it.

Agape ~ I've always heard that that means Godly love. But even knowing that, I still didn't understand what exactly that meant. I mean, if it's Godly love, no wonder I don't have it! But listen to this!!!! This preacher said agape love (the kind we are to have for our neighbor) is not an emotion or a feeling, it's a CHOICE!!! Agape love is a decision!!! This clears it all up for me. The preacher brought out John 3:16...for God so loved the world... but then he said, well, we know that sometimes God said He was sorry He made the world...I'm REALLY paraphrasing here...but you know what I mean, right? So, if God was sorry He made the world then how could He love the world so much?? He went on to explain that God CHOSE to love us. He made a decision to love us, in spite of us, our behavior has nothing to do with His love for us. It's a choice. In other words, agape love chooses to love not to receive, but TO GIVE. He explained it this way ~ Agape love is loving them (us) regardless of our condition and irrespective of our reactions. That's how we are to love! It's a choice, not a feeling.

So...moving on...God in His wisdom knows we can't love like that. But, God never calls us to do something without equipping us with the ability to, so He gave us the Fruit of the Spirit (And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us). Personally, I believe He gives this to us on a as-needed basis...:)

Oh, one more thing...the preacher asked if it was obedience or dependence on the Spirit which enables us to love like this. The answer is BOTH. We obey and depend on the Spirit, and then we have the love God wants us to have for others. As I said, I think it's sort of as we need it...otherwise it's just too big. My opinion only, though.

So, there I have it! The love for others (neighbors) is agape...which is a decision, not an emotion. I make the choice to obey and depend on Him...then it's a gift.

Isn't that wonderful? What do you guys think?

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:08 PM
I tried to witness to them. :)

They fled -- politely. :(

Details, Missy...what'd ya say to them???

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 08:08 PM
:lol: All I can say to Sonja is ~ quit yer whinin', the Mormons won't even come to my door anymore...:cry: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :D
Mercy~ we are scrappers, we can always make it...LOL.
Libby~ Yes, I have learned a lot. What is really amazing is that we all have these deep dark truths in our minds, sitting in the cobwebs, just waiting for us self-righteous fallen people to come to the knowledge of them...:lol: God is Great! He gives us the answers, we just have to accept them! :hug: :kiss: God Bless.

:rofl: Where'd Libby go? She watches 24, so she's taking this cliffhanger thing too far.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:10 PM
All I can say to Sonja is ~ quit yer whinin', the Mormons won't even come to my door anymore...:cry: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :D



I don't blame them...:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 08:21 PM
All right. After every post I say I'm not going to type anymore, and then somebody SAYS something.

Here goes, again...

With my first post, Libby, I was going to mention this..."agape" love, vs. "phileo" love, but then I realized I wasn't even sure which was which! I mean, I've always known the definition of them, but the "warm fuzzy" love...which was that? I see from this description that would be "phileo"...I too had always heard of agape as being God's love, a choice, sacrificial, wanting someone else's best, not a "feeling"...but this really brought it out.

Now, here's the "revelation" I got reading your post. CW mentioned on the Peter thread that Jesus was asking Peter if he "agaped" Him, and Peter kept replying, "Yes, I 'phileo' You." Now...Peter was saying he had warm fuzzies for Jesus, while Jesus was asking him to make a firm choice to love Him. Jesus saw Peter's future, the persecution, the things he (and the others) would suffer for Jesus' sake. This took a much different, committed, firm, unyielding, unbending, unemotional love for Him than phileo.

He asks the same of us...He wants us to agape Him no matter what. I always think I don't love God enough because I'm not full of warm fuzzies toward Him...but that's not the love He's looking for. He's looking for someone who's willing to follow Him AT ALL COSTS, because they have fully chosen to love Him for who He is and what He is worthy of.

Wow...this makes me cry...

This must be what was in store for me...gotta think.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:32 PM
Now, here's the "revelation" I got reading your post. CW mentioned on the Peter thread that Jesus was asking Peter if he "agaped" Him, and Peter kept replying, "Yes, I 'phileo' You." Now...Peter was saying he had warm fuzzies for Jesus, while Jesus was asking him to make a firm choice to love Him. Jesus saw Peter's future, the persecution, the things he (and the others) would suffer for Jesus' sake. This took a much different, committed, firm, unyielding, unbending, unemotional love for Him than phileo.

He asks the same of us...He wants us to agape Him no matter what. I always think I don't love God enough because I'm not full of warm fuzzies toward Him...but that's not the love He's looking for. He's looking for someone who's willing to follow Him AT ALL COSTS, because they have fully chosen to love Him for who He is and what He is worthy of.



Oh!!!!!!!! How thrilling is this!!!! Yes, you just received a revelation, and through you, He gave it to us all! You described it PERFECTLY!!! Now I feel as if I was given a revelation, too! Thank you, Mercy...YES, this is just what He wants from us...not warm fuzzies, but firm, UNYIELDING decisions to follow Him.

Oh...thank you for sharing this. I have such a deeper understanding now...of so many things.

I feel as if He just opened His Hand up and poured some showers down on us.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 08:33 PM
Oh Libby, what a good lesson! CW posted this in the Peter thread:


Don't feel bad. Peter frequently didn't "get it." Neither do we, me included. Heres another piece of information that most people miss. I would have if someone hadn't pointed it out to me. First some background. There are several words in Greek that are translated LOVE. The most important is Agape which is a divine, self sacraficing love. The second is Phelio, which means a brotherly, friendship type of love. I would have to look the others up but these are the important two here. The first time Christ asks "do you love me" he uses Agape and Peter answers with Phelio. On the second repetition Christ again uses Agape and Peter uses Phelio. On the third Christ also uses Phelio when he asks Peter "do you love me," and Peter answers with Phelio. Adds another demension.


Agape IS in us. Peter just didn't have it, or understand it yet. I don't understand it either, not yet. It seems to be a love that may only be one-way. A pure love, no expectations of anything in return. Maybe just sadness in return. Its a difficult concept to wrap my head around, with all my frailties of a human condition. Can I offer this sort of love? It sounds scary. I can love Christ this way, He's in me. But another person? Not without some deep prayer and study, not yet.


My internet is acting crazy again, so this might be a double post. :rolleyes:

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:34 PM
With my first post, Libby, I was going to mention this..."agape" love, vs. "phileo" love, but then I realized I wasn't even sure which was which! I mean, I've always known the definition of them, but the "warm fuzzy" love...which was that? I see from this description that would be "phileo"...I too had always heard of agape as being God's love, a choice, sacrificial, wanting someone else's best, not a "feeling"...but this really brought it out.

Now, here's the "revelation" I got reading your post. CW mentioned on the Peter thread that Jesus was asking Peter if he "agaped" Him, and Peter kept replying, "Yes, I 'phileo' You." Now...Peter was saying he had warm fuzzies for Jesus, while Jesus was asking him to make a firm choice to love Him. Jesus saw Peter's future, the persecution, the things he (and the others) would suffer for Jesus' sake. This took a much different, committed, firm, unyielding, unbending, unemotional love for Him than phileo.

He asks the same of us...He wants us to agape Him no matter what. I always think I don't love God enough because I'm not full of warm fuzzies toward Him...but that's not the love He's looking for. He's looking for someone who's willing to follow Him AT ALL COSTS, because they have fully chosen to love Him for who He is and what He is worthy of.




This is just too big. I've got to copy this again. Mercy...you expressed what I needed to learn from Him today. I think what we all needed to learn.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 08:35 PM
Oh!!!!!!!! How thrilling is this!!!! Yes, you just received a revelation, and through you, He gave it to us all! You described it PERFECTLY!!! Now I feel as if I was given a revelation, too! Thank you, Mercy...YES, this is just what He wants from us...not warm fuzzies, but firm, UNYIELDING decisions to follow Him.

Oh...thank you for sharing this. I have such a deeper understanding now...of so many things.

I feel as if He just opened His Hand up and poured some showers down on us.

Now I'm confused. Alert the media. :lol: Is agape ONLY for Him? Or is it something we are/can give to others?

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:38 PM
A pure love, no expectations of anything in return.


Yes! That's just it!



I can love Christ this way, He's in me. But another person? Not without some deep prayer and study, not yet.



I think maybe not...it's a gift. With OBEDIENCE and ACCEPTANCE of what we've already been given, THEN we have it.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 08:41 PM
Now I'm confused. Alert the media. :lol: Is agape ONLY for Him? Or is it something we are/can give to others?

No, it's not only FOR Him. It's a GIFT ~ we've already been given it. I think we just need to obey and accept it. We CAN give it to others, we are commanded to give it to others, but on our own we can't. He's given it to us through the Holy Spirit.

Remember what the second commandment is?? Well, the first one, too. They are not options for us, they are commandments...

1. To love God with all our hearts, soul and body.

2. To love our neighbors as ourselves.

Those are His two commandments for us. If we obey, everything else will fit in place.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 08:58 PM
First, I found your broadcast, listening right now!

http://www.tellingthetruth.org/listen/listen.asp

I clicked on the box on the left, for archives and it came right up. :)



No, it's not only FOR Him. It's a GIFT ~ we've already been given it. I think we just need to obey and accept it. We CAN give it to others, we are commanded to give it to others, but on our own we can't. He's given it to us through the Holy Spirit.

Remember what the second commandment is?? Well, the first one, too. They are not options for us, they are commandments...

1. To love God with all our hearts, soul and body.

2. To love our neighbors as ourselves.

Those are His two commandments for us. If we obey, everything else will fit in place.


I think I'm getting it. This is something that comes with real maturity, which is probably why I'm not understanding totally. But this is a revelation! There's a huge difference in "love" in the Greek.


This guy is good! He's a Brit and he's funny too.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 09:13 PM
If you can't listen to Pastor Briscoe, here's the sermon outline.


THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
“Love” Galatians 5:22-23
No. 4963 Stuart Briscoe
Christians are conscious of mankind’s sinful nature. They recognize the need for forgiveness
of sins committed because of the power of sin in their lives. They also recognize the need for a
new life after they have been forgiven. The dynamic of this life is the Holy Spirit. The nature of
this life is called “the fruit of the Spirit.”
I. What Does Love Mean?
A. Misconceptions because of semantics.
“I love my wife, my dog, my work, etc…”
B. Misunderstandings because of secular usage.
“Love is…a warm puppy…never having to say you’re sorry.”
C. Meaning of Biblical expressions.
1. The concept of eros – egotistical love.
2. The concept of phileo – mutualistic love.
3. The concept of agape – altruistic love.
D. Models of practical love.
1. The Father’s love for the world. John 3:16
2. The Son’s love for the individual. Mark 10:21
3. The believer’s love for the Son. John 14:15
II. Whom Are We to Love?
A. Loving God. Matthew 22:37
1. Heart – discernment.
2. Soul – desire.
3. Strength – decision.
B. Loving neighbor. Matthew 22:39
1. Deciding who is my neighbor. Luke 10:29
2. Discovering whom my neighbor is. Luke 10:33
C. Loving self. Matthew 22:39
1. Not loving selfishness.
2. Loving personhood.
D. Loving enemies. Matthew 5:44
1. The need for reevaluation.
2. The necessity of reconciliation.
III. Where Do We Find the Ability?
A. The place of obedience to a command. John 13:34
B. The place of dependence on a provision. Galatians 5:22

It didn't copy too well, but the Scripture reference is very helpful.

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 09:21 PM
I haven't listened to the broadcast...thanks for the link, Sonja! I will listen to it! But IMHO, agape is the highest kind of love, that doesn't depend on feelings but on commitment and choice. Yes, it is the love we can and should have for others...those outside of our circle of friends and family. You're right, it comes with maturity.

You know, our love for God at conversion is probably something more like phileo...a gratefulness, warmth, and emotional response to understanding salvation. For some, it probably comes packaged with agape...a firm commitment. But I wonder, for some of us, if that agape doesn't come until later. I wonder if there are some who never move past phileo, and when things get hard they find it easy to walk away, because their love is still based on feeling good, or feeling saved, or whatever.

Sure enough...I just looked it up...Mt. 22: You shall love the Lord your God...love your neighbor as yourself...it's "agapao"...

Just a few more thoughts...it would be an interesting word study, when the Bible uses agapao and phileo.

Mercy4Me
Feb 13th 2007, 09:31 PM
Another thought...my brain is whirling...

If we agape God, no matter what...even in light of persecution, suffering, etc...

Wouldn't it be possible to agape others, no matter what? Like we love our children? This must be the kind of love that martyrs have...loving your enemies...

Hmmm...

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 09:37 PM
I haven't listened to the broadcast...thanks for the link, Sonja! I will listen to it! But IMHO, agape is the highest kind of love, that doesn't depend on feelings but on commitment and choice. Yes, it is the love we can and should have for others...those outside of our circle of friends and family. You're right, it comes with maturity.

You know, our love for God at conversion is probably something more like phileo...a gratefulness, warmth, and emotional response to understanding salvation. For some, it probably comes packaged with agape...a firm commitment. But I wonder, for some of us, if that agape doesn't come until later. I wonder if there are some who never move past phileo, and when things get hard they find it easy to walk away, because their love is still based on feeling good, or feeling saved, or whatever.

Sure enough...I just looked it up...Mt. 22: You shall love the Lord your God...love your neighbor as yourself...it's "agapao"...

Just a few more thoughts...it would be an interesting word study, when the Bible uses agapao and phileo.

Good points Mercy. You're right, at conversion its phileo, and I can attest that it stays that way for as long as we want it to. I mean depending on how committed we are in our walks. We are indeed commaded to love in Matthew 22, but until the fruit of the spirit develops from its bud, we'll only have phileo. Agape comes when that bud develops and the fruit appears and grows ripe.

I'm getting there, with all of your help! :hug: Lol, I feel like I had a real breakthrough in understanding today, something very, very important.

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 09:47 PM
Another thought...my brain is whirling...

If we agape God, no matter what...even in light of persecution, suffering, etc...

Wouldn't it be possible to agape others, no matter what? Like we love our children? This must be the kind of love that martyrs have...loving your enemies...

Hmmm...

Yes, I think so. For a very mature believer. I'm sure not there yet. This makes Libby's comment about Alexander the Great really interesting. English truly doesn't have the nuances.

Matthew 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=matthew+5%3A43-48#f1) what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 10:24 PM
Mercy...great thought about philia (sp?) at conversion. I bet you're right...at least for a lot of us. Of course, yes, some DO have agape at conversion. I did, at my second one. :) (a good point for your thought, Sonja, of maturing)

I wonder if perhaps the reason God did allow Alexander the Great to conquer so much was indeed that...to bring Greek to the world? Interesting thought, for sure. And yes, this preacher did help me understand the richness of Greek, and by contrast, the lack of it in English. I like how that preacher brought out how undeveloped English is...did you hear him say the way to bring joy to an Englishman in his old age is to tell him a joke in his youth? :rofl:

MsLibby
Feb 13th 2007, 10:27 PM
I feel like I had a real breakthrough in understanding today, something very, very important.


Yay!

Now where's that Misty? Yoo hoo, Misty...

I'll be glad to read Mr. CW's thoughts...Oh, Mercy, it was such a TREAT reading your thoughts today!!! You brought a much richer meaning to this than I had. And Sonja...posting my lunchtime message...we play well with others... :lol:

SeattleSun
Feb 13th 2007, 10:51 PM
Yay!

Now where's that Misty? Yoo hoo, Misty...

I'll be glad to read Mr. CW's thoughts...Oh, Mercy, it was such a TREAT reading your thoughts today!!! You brought a much richer meaning to this than I had. And Sonja...posting my lunchtime message...we play well with others... :lol:

My internet is misbehaving again. :B Maybe I'm supposed to be studying more. But this is a study, so its not that.

Here's us playing!

http://stores.wholesalecentral.com//Images/FHQ0FL3Q7HGUGMTK26L12ML1ANX2_C/56001.jpg (http://americanartclassics.com/store.cfm?event=itemdetail&itemid=583207&returnto=http%3A%2F%2Famericanartclassics%2Ecom%2F store%2Ecfm%3Fevent%3Dshowcatalog%26catid%3D61253)

There's Misty, see she's waving! :wave:

Cloudwalker
Feb 14th 2007, 01:34 AM
You all are undoubtably beyond this by now. I've been very busy with moderating and attempting to aid the healing of a situation on another board. Please continue to pray as I need all the wisdom I can get. As a result I haven't been able to keep up as well as I would like but I just got to the discussion on Loving the unlovable and thought I would post while my thoughts are fresh.


How do I love someone I don't even like? I'm not talking family...of course I understand that part. Many times I don't like my own familiy but I always love them. It's the 'world' I'm talking about. I honestly have a natural aversion to people who don't love Jesus. I know I'm commanded to love them, and I often pray for them, but I don't love them. I try to, but I don't. I don't even like them. I'm not talking about friends who don't know God...I'm talking about just people. For instance, I work with a Hindu...he's arrogant, he's rude, he's opiniated, and I don't like him. I don't like his god, I don't like his attitude and I don't like him. So...how do I love him?

In your human nature simply put, you can"t. We do not have the capacity to do this in and of ourselves. We need to let Christ love them through us. It may clairify things to remember that Greek has 5 different words for Love. I can't remember them all. One deals with brotherly love, this one would roughtly equate with friendship. (Its the one that Peter responded with when Christ asked him "do you love me" after the resurection). Another one deals almost strictly with sexual love. I forget what the other 2 are but the last one is divine love. This is the self sacarificing love that Christ displayed at calvery. This is what we are called upon to exibit when we are commanded to love everyone.

Cloudwalker
Feb 14th 2007, 01:52 AM
Isn't God good? Guess what? I'm having some personal issues today...not a good day. And am really wanting to understand more of this 'love' business...well...at lunch I went out to sulk in my car and try to just catch my breath and speak with God. As usual, He didn't disappoint me. He gave me my own personal tutor! Isn't that just like Him???? I turned on my radio and guess what the lesson was? Some preacher I don't even know was talking about 'what does it mean to love thy neighbor'!!!! I just love it when He does this kind of stuff...isn't He SO REAL for us??? I've got lots to share on what I learned...but first I want to address some of your thoughts.
Our God is an all knowing God who knows what we need when we need it. I had a friend that was going through a particularly bad time. He received a letter from a friend who had no way of knowing what he was going throug. On the bottom of the letter the friend had written "Brother, when the world has knocked you to your knees. You're in the right position to pray." Just what he needed. God knows.

Cloudwalker
Feb 14th 2007, 02:16 AM
:monkeyd: <-----Me dancing for joy at your breakthrough. I finally caught up with you (at least on this thread, still working on Peter and have Andrew to go as well). Today was a real break through. I could almost see the lightbulb come on. :idea: I'm glad my words from the Peter thread could help. As you can see I tried to include some of that in my last posts. SS thank you for copying those over here from the Peter thread. I was clearer there than here. (It also keeps me humble. It forces me to remember that I will be called to account for what I have taught. Every now and then it's good for me to be reminded that occaisionally someone actually listens to my babbling.) Either way it was exciting to read the posts. :pp

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 03:11 AM
:monkeyd: <-----Me dancing for joy at your breakthrough. I finally caught up with you (at least on this thread, still working on Peter and have Andrew to go as well). Today was a real break through. I could almost see the lightbulb come on. :idea: I'm glad my words from the Peter thread could help. As you can see I tried to include some of that in my last posts. SS thank you for copying those over here from the Peter thread. I was clearer there than here. (It also keeps me humble. It forces me to remember that I will be called to account for what I have taught. Every now and then it's good for me to be reminded that occaisionally someone actually listens to my babbling.) Either way it was exciting to read the posts. :pp

I'll let the other ladies respond to your previous posts. :D I'll tackle this one ~ :hug: It truly was a breakthrough. You posted "it adds a new dimension" regarding philio vs. agape, and it did. What was lacking for me was personal application, lol, it often is. Without that, it really doesn't mean much except pretty words. That sounds so harsh, but I believe its the truth of His word. I'm just not mature enough to carry it out. But earlier today I wasn't mature enough to understand it. And now I do! :pp

I thank our Father for that lightbulb, and I can't wait for what's next! Lot's of people praying for discipline and wisdom.

Having agape, not quite. Christ, He's my goal for that. Let the fruit grow ripe on the branch. It can't be hurried. To everything there is a season.

Humble, please take a 2X4 to my head. :lol: I think we're all members of this club we'd rather not be associated with. Take me out in the back yard and shoot me if I call for fire from heaven. Or those hailstones Joshua got.

Finally, in my babbling, I sure use short sentences. :hmm:

Mercy4Me
Feb 14th 2007, 04:30 AM
Our God is an all knowing God who knows what we need when we need it. I had a friend that was going through a particularly bad time. He received a letter from a friend who had no way of knowing what he was going throug. On the bottom of the letter the friend had written "Brother, when the world has knocked you to your knees. You're in the right position to pray." Just what he needed. God knows.
CW, Libby has a really incredible story like this, when she was going through a personal crisis. You may have seen it on one of the other threads...don't remember which one...but God used others to minister grace to her just when she needed it. We all got to witness it, and it was awesome!

Today He did it again, with a radio sermon!

"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given him." James 1:5

This verse just came to mind...God has shown this to us. I pray he'll show it to you now in your current situation, as well!

That's such a good quote...when the world has knocked us to our knees, we're in the right position to pray! Amen!

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 02:54 PM
Sonja ~ hahahahaha at us playing. :) In case anyone cares, I'm the one in yellow.

CW, I will remember whatever it is you're going through in my prayers. I remember you mentioned it a few days ago...has there been any positives yet? I mean, has there been any victory yet?

Wasn't yesterday a great learning day here? It's so wonderful when you can post, Mercy. And Sonja with her breakthroughs... :pp It's like the Holy Spirit uses all of us, together, to comprehend the lessons we are learning. I am always so awed when I watch it unfold in our daily lives. How I love to see God at work in us!

Now, where's that Misty...:hmm:

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 02:56 PM
when the world has knocked us to our knees, we're in the right position to pray!


:yes:

Charles Stanley likes to say "we stand tallest when we're on our knees."

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 04:44 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/th_thf8b1e1d0.gif (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/?action=view&current=thf8b1e1d0.gif)

Mercy4Me
Feb 14th 2007, 05:06 PM
Good morning!

http://www.hellasmultimedia.com/webimages/valentine-htm/valentine/images/i%20love%20you/valent1b.gif

How is everyone this morning?

It was such a blessing to study with you all yesterday! I tried to click on the link to the broadcast this morning, but once the current day is past it appears you have to purchase a CD or MP3 to get a previous broadcast. So I didn't get to hear it!

So, what's up with you all? :hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 14th 2007, 05:26 PM
Here I am! Happy Valentine's day everybody! :wave: :hug: :kiss:

jesuslover1968
Feb 14th 2007, 05:27 PM
hmmm...:hmm: this one looks good, it'll do...:lol:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/th_thf8b1e1d0.gif (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/?action=view&current=thf8b1e1d0.gif)

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 05:50 PM
Hi guys! Happy Valentines!

Mercy, I said the same thing ~ about yesterday, that is. It was such a BLESSING!

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 05:51 PM
hmmm...:hmm: this one looks good, it'll do...:lol:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/th_thf8b1e1d0.gif (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/lalokita2006/?action=view&current=thf8b1e1d0.gif)

http://www.pastrywiz.com/dailyrecipes/images/560.jpg

Here, I made this for ya.

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 06:03 PM
Hi all! Happy Valentines Day! http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/141.gif http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/image004.gif


My internet is HORRIBLE! :B I keep losing it.

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 06:11 PM
While I'm still connected :rolleyes: ....


4. Which one of John's three epistles does the author offer as an example that John finally learned the balance of truth and love?

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 06:27 PM
My internet is HORRIBLE! :B I keep losing it.


Ummm, your computer sent me this and asked me to give it to you:

http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/computervirus.gif

Guess you won't be getting any chocolates, huh?

:rofl:

Mercy4Me
Feb 14th 2007, 06:35 PM
You guys are on a roll today!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now come on, stealing valentines? Nasty computer notices? On Valentine's day, yet???

Thanks for the laughs this morning!!!

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 07:12 PM
:mad: That scared me to death! You should see the weird messages I get from Microsoft!

"The Internet is not available, try again later" -- that's just one. :rolleyes:

Oh, the General Manger of Comcast out here sent me a letter. He'd like to be kept updated on this saga. Ummm, be careful what you wish for Mr. Baker. :lol: Truth and love, yep, that shall be the tone of the next updates.

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 08:08 PM
"The Internet is not available, try again later" -- that's just one.




http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/win_police.jpg

:lol:

MsLibby
Feb 14th 2007, 08:12 PM
4. Which one of John's three epistles does the author offer as an example that John finally learned the balance of truth and love?

I guess the answer to this is John's second epistle? I haven't read it yet, guess that's on the list for tonight... I mean, I've read it in single verses over time, but not as a whole.

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 09:49 PM
I guess the answer to this is John's second epistle? I haven't read it yet, guess that's on the list for tonight... I mean, I've read it in single verses over time, but not as a whole.

That's what I came up with. John couples love and truth, and there is no greater truth than love. John balances the emphasis on love with a warning of false teachers corrupting the truth of the gospels. We're to not to love the deceivers. Gosh, we're not even supposed to say hello!

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 09:51 PM
http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/win_police.jpg

:lol:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Good! I'll sic 'em on Comcast!

Mercy4Me
Feb 14th 2007, 10:27 PM
Sonja, your computer sent this one to me! You'd better be getting it checked...I think it's starting to speak Norwegian!




http://members.tripod.com/~stanislavs/p-errors/feil01.gif


Well, it's still officially Valentine's Day, but I decided to change my avatar anyway...I think I need to see proof that spring will return someday.

You guys are REALLY funny today! Those error messages are hilarious!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

SeattleSun
Feb 14th 2007, 10:40 PM
I can't see the image!!!! :mad: It just says "tripod".

Crocus through the snow! I LOVE it!

Mercy4Me
Feb 14th 2007, 10:50 PM
Ooopsss...oh well!

Let's try again:



http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/Mercy58/feil01.gif

Not so funny anymore, though!!! I'm not a pro at this humor stuff!

jesuslover1968
Feb 14th 2007, 10:59 PM
LOL....I see I missed quite a bit while I was away. I had a kinda special surprise planned for hubby at lunch, then time just got away from me...:cry:
I will try to catch up with the question in the morning. God Bless.

Cloudwalker
Feb 15th 2007, 04:34 AM
CW, Libby has a really incredible story like this, when she was going through a personal crisis. You may have seen it on one of the other threads...don't remember which one...but God used others to minister grace to her just when she needed it. We all got to witness it, and it was awesome!

I've got a couple close internet friends that have helped pull me through a couple of crises myself. On is our own dear Parson, the moderator of this thread. The other is Graceblest, who I know from a different board where she and I are both Administrators. She has just joined here as well and I am trying to get her in here. I think she would love this group and add a great deal. (She is also a real prayer warrior).

As for that problem you have been praying for, it may be looking up. I have gotten posts from both parties involved that seem to be saying things that sound like "Let's let bygones be bygones." If that's the case then all we need to do is try and figure out how to prevent a reoccurence.

BTW, I'm still excited about the breakthroughs we had the other day. :monkeyd: I also agree that we also need to apply what we learn in our lives in practical ways. First we need to understand, then we apply. Sometimes understanding is the fast, and often easier, part. As a class I took once put it PBPGINFWMY Please Be Patient God Is Not Finished With Me Yet.

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 02:33 PM
Good morning! :wave:

Not sure how much I'll be around today -- I think my internet connection signal is on life support. Rewiring the house didn't do a lick of good. :B Anyway, I can hope.

CW, good news on the problem, and I pray it'll work out completely. And I'm looking forward to meeting Grace, she'd be most welcome to join our little group! :hug:




BTW, I'm still excited about the breakthroughs we had the other day. :monkeyd: I also agree that we also need to apply what we learn in our lives in practical ways. First we need to understand, then we apply. Sometimes understanding is the fast, and often easier, part. As a class I took once put it PBPGINFWMY Please Be Patient God Is Not Finished With Me Yet.


Interesting that you posted this! My devotional was about this yesterday, and also on Tuesday. And the devotionals are from JMac, done in his own inimitable way. :D The month is about Joy, and Tuesday was Anticipation; yesterday's Glorification. God will finish His good works in us and perfect it for His glory.

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stmbling, and make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

We have an active role -- discipline, through prayer, study, obedience and accountablity. Yield to the Spirit and let God accomplish His will. And be patient, He'll conform us in His time, not ours, and be assured He's working mightily in us. He promises to complete us, Scripture confirms that. :pp

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 02:50 PM
Hi all! Happy Thursday!



I think I need to see proof that spring will return someday.

Just look at these tulips ~ underneath all those blizzards you've had this winter they are still there...just waiting to burst out.
http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/kittyinirving/th_CAV2VU54.jpg
I just had a flash of my life just thinking about it. The storms of life only strenthen us for the coming glory of Him.


I had a kinda special surprise planned for hubby at lunch, then time just got away from me...:cry:


:eek: just joking...:lol:



She has just joined here as well and I am trying to get her in here. I think she would love this group and add a great deal. (She is also a real prayer warrior).




WHat's her name? I'll go rep her. All prayer warriors are welcome over here. :)



BTW, I'm still excited about the breakthroughs we had the other day. :monkeyd: I also agree that we also need to apply what we learn in our lives in practical ways. First we need to understand, then we apply. Sometimes understanding is the fast, and often easier, part. As a class I took once put it PBPGINFWMY Please Be Patient God Is Not Finished With Me Yet.


I'm still excited about it, too! I even dreamt about it last night...it was the most lovely dream...something about love and truth. It was directly related to John. I can't remember the specifics now, but the flavor is still with me. It was exciting as I dreamt it...sort of like an AHA moment...but now it's gone. Not gone, but only the pleasant aroma is left.

Oh, you guys...before I forget ~ I had the most wonderful prayer time this morning. I lifted us all up before Him. Especially our sons. It was a special time with our Lord. I prayed as a mother, for all of us, that our sons will become the men God intends for them to be. That they will all come out of the darkness and into the light. I had a special vision of God understanding the heart of a mother...it was wonderful and you all were a part of it. He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think. Imagine that.

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 02:57 PM
CW, good news on the problem, and I pray it'll work out completely. And I'm looking forward to meeting Grace, she'd be most welcome to join our little group! :hug:




Oh no...I'm having ANOTHER blonde day. :lol: I just asked what her name is...don't pay any attention to me, CW. I just turned 50 and well, that explains a lot....

If she comes and joins us, we'll have a Grace and a Mercy! Woo hoo!



God will finish His good works in us and perfect it for His glory.



When God brought me back to Him last spring, the first verse I memorized was Phil. 1:6 ~ He who has begun a good work in you will be faithful to complete it.

I was just stunned. How many times I said that to myself over and over during those first few weeks, as I was stumbling around. I had to LEARN, to keep reminding myself that He WOULD complete this work! Me, I'm 'this work'!!

Thank you, Sonja, for reminding me of His great promise.

BTW ~ :hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 03:23 PM
Hey you! :hug: I was going to leave Misty's post alone! :rofl:


I just had a flash of my life just thinking about it. The storms of life only strenthen us for the coming glory of Him.


This reminds of a quote from an anonymous person:

"Sometimes the Lord calms the storm; sometimes He lets the storm rage and calms the child."

What an amazing thought! He's in charge of our trials and uses them for our growth, all for His glory. And we're glorified through Him. And He never gives us more than we're ready for, even though sometimes you wonder.

Mercy4Me
Feb 15th 2007, 03:42 PM
http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/morning.gifcan't type, sending hugs thanks Libby for praying:hug: :hug:

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 03:46 PM
http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/morning.gifcan't type, sending hugs thanks Libby for praying:hug: :hug:

Every day, Mercy...have been praying for him. Today was just sort of on a different level.

Rest your arms! :hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 15th 2007, 04:54 PM
Hey you! :hug: I was going to leave Misty's post alone! :rofl:



This reminds of a quote from an anonymous person:

"Sometimes the Lord calms the storm; sometimes He lets the storm rage and calms the child."

What an amazing thought! He's in charge of our trials and uses them for our growth, all for His glory. And we're glorified through Him. And He never gives us more than we're ready for, even though sometimes you wonder.

Hey now....you pickin' on me when I ain't even around to defend myself? :rofl: :rofl: How is everybody? God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 04:59 PM
Hey now....you pickin' on me when I ain't even around to defend myself? :rofl: :rofl: How is everybody? God Bless.

Who me????? :o That would be our MsLibby! Mercy and I are little angels. :saint:





Just ask us! :P

:hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 15th 2007, 05:04 PM
Who me????? :o That would be our MsLibby! Mercy and I are little angels. :saint:





Just ask us! :P

:hug:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ....oooooo, puleeeeaaaaasssssseeeeee!!!!!!!:lol: just a good thing I love you guys so much....:hug: :kiss:

Mercy4Me
Feb 15th 2007, 05:04 PM
Who me????? :o That would be our MsLibby! Mercy and I are little angels. :saint:





Just ask us! :P

:hug:
:agree:
................

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 05:12 PM
See Misty, I told you so! Mercy agrees! :kiss:



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Cloudwalker
Feb 15th 2007, 06:20 PM
Interesting that you posted this! My devotional was about this yesterday, and also on Tuesday.

A wise man once said that a coincodence is just when God preforms a miracle and prefers to remain annonymus.


WHat's her name? I'll go rep her. All prayer warriors are welcome over here.

Her name is Graceblest. She just posted an introduction.

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 06:36 PM
A wise man once said that a coincodence is just when God preforms a miracle and prefers to remain annonymus.



Our Father's providential hand! I believe He wants these lessons to really sink into my thick head. If this gentle method doesn't work, I'll invite Him to use a 2X4. :D

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 06:38 PM
New one!

5. To Peter Jesus said, "Feed my sheep!" What injunction did the dying Savior give to John? What reason does JMac offer that Jesus chose John for this task?

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 07:46 PM
Her name is Graceblest. She just posted an introduction.

Ok, I just got her twice. A welcome and a rep. :) I hope to get to know her better.

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 08:26 PM
5. To Peter Jesus said, "Feed my sheep!" What injunction did the dying Savior give to John? What reason does JMac offer that Jesus chose John for this task?


Liz and I were just talking about this yesterday! Not in this context though.

John 19
26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

John had become a humble, loving servant. I wonder if any of the other apostles had been at His crucifixion, if He would've picked John for His mother's care, but I think He would have. One of the others would've been there if He had any reservations. According to JMac, "several wintesses in early church history record that John never left Jerusalem and never left the care of Mary until she died".

What an honor bestowed on him. To be entrusted to care for His mother by Jesus Himself! And for Mary to look at John as her son.

John had such a different path from the others, maybe he became a culmination of all Jesus wanted them all to be as individuals. All the best qualities rolled into one man, having witnessed everything (and more!).

Babble alert! :lol:

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 08:29 PM
Ok, I just got her twice. A welcome and a rep. :) I hope to get to know her better.

:yes: We can serve tea and scones to welcome Grace!


http://www.browniepointsblog.com/wordpress/wp-images/2005/06/scone.jpg

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 09:06 PM
John had such a different path from the others, maybe he became a culmination of all Jesus wanted them all to be as individuals. All the best qualities rolled into one man, having witnessed everything (and more!).



VERY interesting thought! I like it. What do we think?

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 09:27 PM
VERY interesting thought! I like it. What do we think?

We haven't learned about the rest of them yet. Now, I may totally off base here because I really don't know, but John didn't preach like Peter and Paul to "great multitudes". Or did he? He seemed to get to know individuals, like Andrew did, bringing them one at a time, his 2nd Epistle is written to a woman and her family. He had the boldness of Peter and the brashness and ambition of his brother.

He was fearless! He stayed with Christ through His arrest, trial and crucifixion, where the others ran for their lives. Add to fearless, loyal. Or better word, faithful.

Mercy4Me
Feb 15th 2007, 09:52 PM
Hi very quick...great observations, Sonja! What an honored place for John. He must have earned Jesus' trust...I agree, he seems like the perfect one for the job of caring for Jesus' mother, which must explain why he wasn't out there getting martyred, and why he lived to be an old man...he was probably needed as Mary's "son". Wonder why Jesus' other brothers wouldn't have just stepped in there...but I guess at that point they didn't yet even believe in Him.

That's all for me for now...:hug:

MsLibby
Feb 15th 2007, 10:08 PM
Another good question! WHY didn't Jesus' brothers take care of Mary?

Sonja...I'm not sure John was fearless at the time that Jesus was crucified. Not sure about that. He was at least THERE, but still...he ran at first too. I think it was later that he got stronger. I could be wrong though...:hmm:

SeattleSun
Feb 15th 2007, 10:45 PM
Another good question! WHY didn't Jesus' brothers take care of Mary?

Sonja...I'm not sure John was fearless at the time that Jesus was crucified. Not sure about that. He was at least THERE, but still...he ran at first too. I think it was later that he got stronger. I could be wrong though...:hmm:

He had other work for them? Where was Joseph? Her daughters? There's no definite date of her death, but historians estimate it to be 3-15 years after the Crucifixion. If that's a correct estimate, John lived a long time after she was gone.

Okay, maybe not fearless, but certainly braver than the others. Peter took off again after the sham trial, and we don't know where the others went until later. But they sure scattered. Except John! He stayed so close to Him, he was taking the same risks.

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 12:15 AM
Another good question! WHY didn't Jesus' brothers take care of Mary?



That IS a good question. We know that some of them were still alive...Maybe it was simply just because Jesus entrusted that job to John.
God Bless.

Cloudwalker
Feb 16th 2007, 01:14 AM
John had such a different path from the others, maybe he became a culmination of all Jesus wanted them all to be as individuals. All the best qualities rolled into one man, having witnessed everything (and more!).

Lets be careful here lest we start putting halos on John. He was still human, just like the rest of us. Remember, he was one of the "Sons of Thunder" and still had the temprament that went with the title. It just got tempered.


Another good question! WHY didn't Jesus' brothers take care of Mary?

One possible answer is that as the eldest son it was Jesus responsibility to care for his mother. Now that he was dying it was his responsibility to, in essence, will her care where he wished. His statement to John would be the same as willing any property he had. Not that Mary was "property" but the dispensation of family responsibilitys often went hand in hand with dispensing property. Remember, Naomi's property went to Boaz when he married Ruth.

At least one of Christ's brothers was alive because he is mentioned as a leader in the church in Jerusalem. Some think that it was James, the brother of Christ, that wrote the epistle of James.

Cloudwalker
Feb 16th 2007, 02:03 AM
:pp Yay! I've made it half way through Peter. :pp

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 03:25 AM
Yay! I've made it half way through Peter. :pp

:rofl: Its a long thread.


Lets be careful here lest we start putting halos on John. He was still human, just like the rest of us. Remember, he was one of the "Sons of Thunder" and still had the temperament that went with the title. It just got tempered

Point taken. Except Jesus, God incarnate, dying, entrusts His mother to John. Why? Yes indeed, he was still one of the Sons of Thunder, but that makes the question so much more interesting. Here's Mom, watching her Son go through this brutal, excruciating death and He "gives" her to John. And He "gives" him to her. Mary had a family -- what was it about John to make Him do that? There's a reason -- I just don't know why, and maybe its something I'm not to know. Without Mary, would John not have become John?

Now I'm back to trying to figure out Greek "love".

Cloudwalker
Feb 16th 2007, 03:35 AM
Now I'm back to trying to figure out Greek "love".

:lol: Keep trying. They actually had 5 diffrent words for it. I only remember 3.

Graceblest, welcome. The post I was talking to you about earlier started on Post 50 of this thread.

BTW, you're right. Peter is a long thread, but it is very good and there were a number of personal issues and crisis there as well.

Graceblest
Feb 16th 2007, 03:37 AM
John has always been one of my very favorite books and Bbile characters! It was well pointed out that he began as a "Son of Thunder" but became the "Apostle of Love". You know, that just shows the amazingness of God's grace!

I have a feeling about how the immense change came in John's life. The more he "leaned on Jesus" , the closer he got to Him, the more he experienced of His love, and allowed that love to flow through him. I have heard or read somewhere that when John had come back to Ephesus after his exile and after Jesus gave him his revelation of Himself, that the church wanted to hear from the 90-year-old apostle. He was weak, and had to be helped in, but when it came time for him to speak, he would often say just this one little sentence: "My little children, love one another". Whether this story is true or not, we do know that John grew immensely in love.

That says to me that each of us need to do just that! The more we love Jesus and lean on Him, the easier it is to love others. And hey, loving God and loving our neighbors constitutes the prime commandments! And the first makes the second so much easier!

God bless all of you! "Blest be the Tie that Binds our Hearts in Christian Love"

Graceblest
Feb 16th 2007, 03:46 AM
MsLibby, Cloudwalker asked me to look at your post number 50 on this thread. AMEN, Sis! Love is most definitely an action, not an emotion!

Just also thinking that John saw a LOTof love in action coming from our Lord! He must have learned a LOT about how to show it!

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 03:57 AM
Welcome Grace! :hug:

What a great first post. Up to this point in this study, we meet a bunch of arrogant and difficult men. :D Pentecost changed them. But John, to me, seemed changed before that. I'm the young Christian here, so sometimes I rely on people much wiser than I, which includes pretty much everyone. JMac writes:

"In fact, John's theology is best described as a theology of love. He taught that God is a God of love, that God loved His own Son, that God loved the world, that God is loved by Christ. that Christ loved His disciples, that Christ's disciples loved Him, that all men should love Christ, that we should love one another, and that love fulfills the law."

Whew!


:lol: Keep trying. They actually had 5 diffrent words for it. I only remember 3.


Thank's a lot. :rofl: Okay, explain to me please why God spared Lot's 2 daughters. Nothing good came from them. Totally o/t, but I've been pondering this for days!

Graceblest
Feb 16th 2007, 06:33 AM
Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Good question about Lot's daughters! After all, they tricked their father into relations with them so they could bear children. But then we do have a God of grace and forgiveness! Let me research a bit, and I'll try to get back with you shortly!

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 02:55 PM
Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Good question about Lot's daughters! After all, they tricked their father into relations with them so they could bear children. But then we do have a God of grace and forgiveness! Let me research a bit, and I'll try to get back with you shortly!

Good morning! :wave:

I'm the going off on a tangent person here, so don't worry about it! :lol: I was pondering the fact that only Lot was righteous, and his other daughters stayed in Sodom despite the fact they knew what was coming. Lot's wife disobeyed by looking back and met her fate. Was God giving the two daughters their very last chance to come back into His will? They left Sodom, they didn't look back, but then they did a lot worse.

Without this happening though, Lot wouldn't have fathered Moab, and without him, Ruth wouldn't have married Boaz. In His perfect plan, all good comes from bad.

:OFFT:

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 02:56 PM
Grace ~ how nice to come in this morning and see you here! Am looking forward to lots of good fellowship with you. :)

Sonja... Lot's daughters???? http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/daane.gif Lot is one of my least favorite people in the OT. I have never grown fond of him. Don't know much about his daughters except that Mr. Lot tried to hand them over to the perverts, didn't he?? I'm not real knowledgeable about that bunch...

Misty...is lunch over? :lol:

Oh...happy Friday everyone!

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 03:05 PM
Grace ~ how nice to come in this morning and see you here! Am looking forward to lots of good fellowship with you. :)

Sonja... Lot's daughters???? http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/daane.gif Lot is one of my least favorite people in the OT. I have never grown fond of him. Don't know much about his daughters except that Mr. Lot tried to hand them over to the perverts, didn't he?? I'm not real knowledgeable about that bunch...

Misty...is lunch over? :lol:

Oh...happy Friday everyone!

:hug: Is lunch over!!!??? :rofl: Someone's going to be in twubble. :lol:

Ewww, I forgot that part. Tradition dictated that Lot protect his guests at all costs, so that must've been the best idea he could come up with. :rolleyes: His guests were angels, but I guess he didn't realize they could take care of themselves. He may have been the only righteous citizen of Sodom, but he wasn't too smart.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 03:42 PM
I haven't read the story in a long time, and don't have time to now...but as I remember it...when the people of the town came for the angels, I think Lot offered up his daughters to them instead. I've never understood that part. I mean, if Lot wasn't a believer, then I'd have no problem with it. But he was. What on earth was he thinking ~ trying to give his own daughters up to those vile people??

Like I said, I've never cared much for the guy.

Back to Jesus on the cross, giving Mary into John's care. This has really spoken to me today. You guys know I'm in a big transition with my daughter and her family staying with me. I've been seeking God's will in some decisions I've been making. I want so badly to stay IN His will and have been diligently searching for answers to choices I need to make regarding her family.

How much comfort I get, and confirmation too, in some of my decisions, that one of the very last things Jesus did before He left this world was to see that His mother was taken care of. Isn't that just like our Jesus? To think, as He was at the height of His physical suffering, He must have been in pure agony by that time...even then, He took the time to see that His mother would be taken care of. I've known this for years, but today it's really spoken to me. Seek, and we will find. God has been so good to me!! To all of us!

Sonja, I like your thoughts about how caring for Mary must have been part of his development. To know who John became ~ the one who was given THE revelation of Jesus Christ...no small task, there. So by Jesus giving Mary into John's care, Jesus knew that taking care of her would enable John better, equip him better for the coming tasks. I wouldn't have thought of this in these terms, til you pointed it out, Sonja. Caring for Mary had to have played a major part in the man that John was becoming.

Great thoughts here. It's awesome to me as I study this with you guys, to put together pieces of stories that I grew up with, but am just now beginning to have a good comprehension of. Daily I am reminded that the Word of God IS living and powerful. Isn't it miraculous how It speaks to us, individually, distinctly, always feeding our needs? Oh how I love His Word!!

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 03:52 PM
Grace ~ how nice to come in this morning and see you here! Am looking forward to lots of good fellowship with you. :)

Sonja... Lot's daughters???? http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/daane.gif Lot is one of my least favorite people in the OT. I have never grown fond of him. Don't know much about his daughters except that Mr. Lot tried to hand them over to the perverts, didn't he?? I'm not real knowledgeable about that bunch...

Misty...is lunch over? :lol:

Oh...happy Friday everyone!




:rofl: :rofl: too funny...LOL.
I see you're all wound up this morning...hehehe.
Grace, glad to see you here! :hug:
Lot's daughters....I have a theory, albeit it is just a theory, so don't take it as the gospel...Lot offered his daughters to homosexuals, it's possible that he knew that they wouldn't want them...I do have to admit that that is one of the mysteries in the Bible that I do not fully understand. The men who Lot was protecting were angels of God, they really didn't need to be protected by him. Just one of those things that make you go....hmmmm....:hmm: God Bless.

Graceblest
Feb 16th 2007, 03:54 PM
After a little lookin' around, I have just one touch of an answer. Up a little further in Gen. 19 we are told that "God remembered Abraham". Perhaps that is one reason that God spared Lot's daughters: for Abraham's sake.

We know that after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's wife was dead (a pillar of salt). I'm not sure whether these daughters were the same daughters that Lot was about to give to the evil men. We are told that he said that his daughters had known no man when he offered them to the evil men. (Genesis 19:8) Perhaps these were other daughters who were married and whose husbands had died in the destruction of the cities. At any rate, it was a good point that he may have known they wouldn't take them, and another point is that the men who were staying with Lot were angels who were actually their protectors in this situation!

But we do know that, hiding in a cave in Zoar, they felt desparate. They felt they had no hope of marriage or remarriage. They know their mother was dead and that their father was unlikely to remarry and have children. If they had died without children to carry on the family name, it would have been a gigantic loss in their culture. Genesis 38 speaks further about this.

We do know that their sons, Moab and Ben-Ammi were the fathers of the nations of the Moabites and the Ammonites (Genesis 19:36-38), who would constantly and greatly trouble Israel.

Hope that helps a little! Now we can maybe get back to John. One quick question first, though. I'm having problems finding the smilies. Can someone help me find them, please?

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:04 PM
I know this is a little off topic, but I have to add it...
Lot's daughters were not the only ones at fault in their deception of him. He allowed them to get him so drunk that he didn't remember what had happened. Therefore, he was guilty of getting dog drunk, not once, but twice. There is nothing in there that says he was sorry for becoming totally inebriated to the point of no remembrance. They may have encouraged the drinking, but he didn't say no, he said, " it's a go," so to speak. I think all parties were guilty, and because of the actions of all three, the ammonites and the moabites have played their part in history to punish those actions. I also agree that God used their wicked for good. He is an awesome God and a wonderful Savior! God Bless.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:12 PM
Grace ~ we sort of share these little guys...some of them are a little risque (sp?) so just ignore them. ;)

http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/hilsener.php

http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/juhu.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 04:14 PM
Back to Jesus on the cross, giving Mary into John's care. This has really spoken to me today. You guys know I'm in a big transition with my daughter and her family staying with me. I've been seeking God's will in some decisions I've been making. I want so badly to stay IN His will and have been diligently searching for answers to choices I need to make regarding her family.



And here's your answer, right in this study! Family is first and foremost in this world, after God of course. If we can't sacrifice for our family, how can we sacrifice for Him or anyone? We don't get any "points" for loving our family.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=matthew+5%3A46-48#f1) what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

To me, this means that its easy to love our family, and He expects it! If you didn't put youself into their's, I'd be more worried about being in His will. You're making a big sacrifice, giving up your peaceful home, along with parts of your sanity. :lol: :hug: But look at the blessings He's bestowed, they're reading the Bible! He's answered our prayers! :pp And if they weren't there in your home, with you, would that be happening?

Do you think that Mary would have been able to put some "finishing touches" on John? Maybe something that would've taken longer than something that the Holy Spirit could've taught him?

Okay, going into babble mode again. Sorry.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:19 PM
Do you think that Mary would have been able to put some "finishing touches" on John? Maybe something that would've taken longer than something that the Holy Spirit could've taught him?



I say absolutely. There are no accidents with God. If Jesus put Mary into John's keeping, then it was all part of the plan. I would go so far as to say that Mary must have contributed in a large way to the man that John became.

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:20 PM
Do you think that Mary would have been able to put some "finishing touches" on John? Maybe something that would've taken longer than something that the Holy Spirit could've taught him?


well, I think that the Holy Spirit could teach him instantly, if He so chose. I think that it's possible that He was responsible for putting John with Mary because of what they could do for each other. John had a very hardy nature. Mary would have needed that after Jesus' death. He would be a strong pillar for her to lean on. Mary was obviously a great mother or God would not have chosen her to bare Jesus. She was very godly and spiritually mature. I think John needed that. He had the zeal, he just needed to put that zeal to good use for God, and not himself.
Mary was probably a great teacher for John, and John was probably the strong shoulder she needed to lean on in her sorrow. It's possible that she transferred some of her motherly love to John after Jesus' death. God Bless.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:20 PM
I think all parties were guilty, and because of the actions of all three, the ammonites and the moabites have played their part in history to punish those actions. I also agree that God used their wicked for good. He is an awesome God and a wonderful Savior! God Bless.

Yep. :agree: :wave:

Mercy4Me
Feb 16th 2007, 04:24 PM
Good morning! Welcome, Grace!


http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/welcomebounce.gif

I'm glad you're here, and thanks, CW, for sending her our way!

Quick note this morning...feeling better but need to keep it that way! Yesterday was so awful!!!

Anyway, Libby, regarding your question about WHY Jesus entrusted his mother to John rather than His brothers...maybe it does come back to the fact that it wasn't until sometime later (I don't know when...someone else does, I'm sure) that His brothers even believed in Him. They weren't "Christians"...maybe He was watching out for her spiritually, as well as physically, by allowing one of His own hand-picked men that He'd trained for 3 years to care for her in her old age. :eek: She was probably only my age by this time! If she was 15 or 16 when He was born, and He was 33...she would have been 48 or 49...forget the "old age" thing :D

It seems to me that by the time Jesus died, He must have seen that John would be best suited of all the disciples to care for His mother. There was something about him that made Him trust John with His mother...in a way, it makes me want to know John better.

You're right, Libby...


How much comfort I get, and confirmation too, in some of my decisions, that one of the very last things Jesus did before He left this world was to see that His mother was taken care of. Isn't that just like our Jesus? To think, as He was at the height of His physical suffering, He must have been in pure agony by that time...even then, He took the time to see that His mother would be taken care of. I've known this for years, but today it's really spoken to me. Seek, and we will find. God has been so good to me!! To all of us!


Great thoughts! I know He cares just as much about you, your daughter, and her family, and He'll guide you all as you make decisions :hug:

Sonja...Lot's daughters??? :rolleyes: Well, I think the fact that they did leave with their father, and they didn't look back, unlike their other siblings and mother, showed that they must have trusted and/or obeyed their father, at least. They were obviously pretty terrified, and probably didn't know what was going on. I wonder if they thought the whole rest of mankind was being obliterated??? Anyway, their actions to me don't seem all that different than Sarah's taking the promise to Abraham into her own hands and manipulating the circumstances to "make sure" things worked out the way God wanted them to. Obviously what they did was very, very wrong, and differs from Sarah's actions in that way, but I guess I see a similarity there, too.

Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.
Gen 19:26 But Lot's wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
Gen 19:27 And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD.
Gen 19:28 And he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and he looked and, behold, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace.
Gen 19:29 So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, God remembered Abraham and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow when he overthrew the cities in which Lot had lived.
Gen 19:30 Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters.
Gen 19:31 And the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth.


Ugh...I hate this whole story...but obviously God had a plan in all of it. It amazes me sometimes that God thought of Lot as righteous, with the kind of response he showed when the angels came to his house. It seems so unrighteous to me! But in the end, even though he hesitated, he did obey and leave the city. I guess God's ways are higher than ours, and His thoughts higher than ours...

Okay, I see you guys were posting while I was typing this...hope I didn't repeat anything! Just my two cents...:hug:

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:24 PM
Mary was probably a great teacher for John, and John was probably the strong shoulder she needed to lean on in her sorrow. It's possible that she transferred some of her motherly love to John after Jesus' death. God Bless.

That's what I'm thinking too. Mary was probably a tool in helping to mold John to become the disciple of love. Perhaps it was Mary's influence that tempered his natural-born zeal into the needed balance of love that he grew into.

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 04:25 PM
Great thoughts! Thank you all!


well, I think that the Holy Spirit could teach him instantly, if He so chose. I think that it's possible that He was responsible for putting John with Mary because of what they could do for each other. John had a very hardy nature. Mary would have needed that after Jesus' death. He would be a strong pillar for her to lean on. Mary was obviously a great mother or God would not have chosen her to bare Jesus. She was very godly and spiritually mature. I think John needed that. He had the zeal, he just needed to put that zeal to good use for God, and not himself.
Mary was probably a great teacher for John, and John was probably the strong shoulder she needed to lean on in her sorrow. It's possible that she transferred some of her motherly love to John after Jesus' death. God Bless

So well put. :hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:29 PM
Yep. :agree: :wave:


LOL, well it's a good thing...:rofl: . That's something that a lot of people don't take into consideration. They just think, " o poor Lot..." but Lot was just as guilty as they were. I think it's important that we try to see the whole story the way God intended us to. :hug: :kiss: God Bless.


O, and BTW, :lol: my special lunch was that I ordered him a pizza...

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:31 PM
Quick note this morning...feeling better but need to keep it that way! Yesterday was so awful!!!



I'm sorry, Mercy. http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/bandaid.gif :hug:



It seems to me that by the time Jesus died, He must have seen that John would be best suited of all the disciples to care for His mother. There was something about him that made Him trust John with His mother...in a way, it makes me want to know John better.



Now this brings me to another thought ~ Jesus of course knew the others would be martyred, and also they traveled quite a bit. Perhaps because John would live the longest? Why would He put Mary in someone's hands who would be busy traveling all over the place and then would be put to death?

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 04:31 PM
UGH, no more Lot. :lol: The OT mercies and blessings are a bit confusing to me, and I blame that on our "friend" Jehu. If Lot was the only righteous person in Sodom, the rest of them must've been doozies! Yep, they were!

One thing I always have to remember, God dispenses His wrath along with His mercies. And all good comes from both.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 04:32 PM
If Lot was the only righteous person in Sodom, the rest of them must've been doozies! Yep, they were!



Skeery, isn't it?? Lot was the best of the bunch?? :eek:

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 04:33 PM
LOL, well it's a good thing...:rofl: . That's something that a lot of people don't take into consideration. They just think, " o poor Lot..." but Lot was just as guilty as they were. I think it's important that we try to see the whole story the way God intended us to. :hug: :kiss: God Bless.


O, and BTW, :lol: my special lunch was that I ordered him a pizza...

And we were imagining that seeing it was Valentines Day ... oh, never mind. :lol:

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:36 PM
UGH, no more Lot. :lol: The OT mercies and blessings are a bit confusing to me, and I blame that on our "friend" Jehu. If Lot was the only righteous person in Sodom, the rest of them must've been doozies! Yep, they were!

One thing I always have to remember, God dispenses His wrath along with His mercies. And all good comes from both.


well put! I agree. Every story that is told in the Bible has a greater meaning for us, even today.
Afterall, David was a man after God's own heart, and look at what all he did. He had a man killed so he could have the wife. it comforts me to know these things. David sinned grieviously, but God knew his heart and He forgave him. It makes me realize that God knows our weaknesses. It doesn't matter how we fall to sin, it is the condition of our heart and our repentance that God sees. :pp God Bless.

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:37 PM
And we were imagining that seeing it was Valentines Day ... oh, never mind. :lol:



LOL...you bad...bad....girl.....:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!!!! :rofl: :hug: :kiss:

Mercy4Me
Feb 16th 2007, 04:37 PM
Wow...great thoughts, all! Misty, I think you're right about Lot's hoping the men wouldn't take his daughters.

I also think you're right...in a way, Jesus was also trusting John into Mary's hands! Another point...John apparently was from a family with good financial resources, as his father owned the fishing business they all had worked for. He may have been able to support Mary financially, as well as spiritually and otherwise.

Grace...I think it was the same two daughters, because the angels said, "Bring the two daughters who are here..."
Gen 19:15 As morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be swept away in the punishment of the city."

At any rate, we know that God had a plan in all of it, even if it was to bring these two nations into existence. I don't understand, but I trust that He knows what He's doing!

I agree, Misty...Lot wasn't totally innocent, either...

Pizza, huh? :D

My girls are sick today with colds and begging me to make them some breakfast, so I'd better go for now...since it's past 9:30 here :o and they haven't eaten yet! Well, they haven't been out of bed for long, anyway...

:hug: :kiss: :hug: Nice to see everybody this morning!

Mercy4Me
Feb 16th 2007, 04:41 PM
Boy, this is a weird study...weaving John and Mary in and out with Lot and his daughters...:o AND Valentine's day and Misty's pizza...:o





well put! I agree. Every story that is told in the Bible has a greater meaning for us, even today.
Afterall, David was a man after God's own heart, and look at what all he did. He had a man killed so he could have the wife. it comforts me to know these things. David sinned grieviously, but God knew his heart and He forgave him. It makes me realize that God knows our weaknesses. It doesn't matter how we fall to sin, it is the condition of our heart and our repentance that God sees. :pp


Great point, Misty!

Off to make breakfast now...:wave:

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:46 PM
Boy, this is a weird study...weaving John and Mary in and out with Lot and his daughters...:o AND Valentine's day and Misty's pizza...:o





Great point, Misty!

Off to make breakfast now...:wave:


LOL, yes, pizza, huh....and that was all. Afterall , he only has an hour for lunch and he spends 15 to twenty minutes each way driving back and forth...
It is interesting how each character in the Bible CAN be woven in and out with others. God is so much more intelligent than we can ever understand in our fallen human state. God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 04:49 PM
Boy, this is a weird study...weaving John and Mary in and out with Lot and his daughters...:o AND Valentine's day and Misty's pizza...:o



:rofl: Probably one reason its taking so long! Which is fine with me, its fellowshipping! :pp




LOL...you bad...bad....girl.....:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!!!! :rofl: :hug: :kiss:


Libby started it. :P Don't forget ... :saint: :saint: <-- Mercy and me.

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 04:51 PM
:rofl: Probably one reason its taking so long! Which is fine with me, its fellowshipping! :pp




Libby started it. Don't forget ... :saint: :saint: <-- Mercy and me.

LOL, need I remind you about how Lot was just as guilty as his daughters...:rofl: ...yes, Libby started it....and it's all good fun. :hug: :kiss: :P

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 05:08 PM
Boy, this is a weird study...weaving John and Mary in and out with Lot and his daughters...:o AND Valentine's day and Misty's pizza...:o



:rofl: :lol: :rofl: It's great, huh? I learn so much more this way! Real life application. :)



Libby started it. :P Don't forget ... :saint: :saint: <-- Mercy and me.


Um...http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/nervest.gif

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 05:17 PM
:rofl: :lol: :rofl: It's great, huh? I learn so much more this way! Real life application. :)



Um...


see, they blamed it ALL on you while you weren't looking....LOL...http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/nervest.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 05:20 PM
Boy, this is a weird study...weaving John and Mary in and out with Lot and his daughters...:o AND Valentine's day and Misty's pizza...:o



I like weaving them in, even though I didn't see my question taking that direction! :lol: It makes me think about how hard it would've been to be under the law as opposed to walking in His grace. I can see how corrupt the law would become because of self-righteousness and false teachers. Smug priests to interpret everything and issue orders. God's authority seemed to shift to men.

There's no question as to authority, we know just where to go! :pp

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 05:23 PM
6. Although a hurried reading of John's Gospel would lead one to believe that he doesn't think Christians are capable of sinning, such is not the case. Read 1 John 1:8-2:1. Still, John is not nearly as expressive as Paul when in comes to describing the extent to which believers struggle with sin. Read Romans 7:14-24. Explain why this is.

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 05:34 PM
6. Although a hurried reading of John's Gospel would lead one to believe that he doesn't think Christians are capable of sinning, such is not the case. Read 1 John 1:8-2:1. Still, John is not nearly as expressive as Paul when in comes to describing the extent to which believers struggle with sin. Read Romans 7:14-24. Explain why this is.


I think that John wrote exactly what he was supposed to. In a way, He gave the outline, Paul filled it all in. John gave us the point-blank way it is. Paul expounded on it by giving us more detailed and in-depth answers and real-life scenarios. Both lead us to the knowledge that we can do nothing without Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, we are just the shells and no filling.
God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 05:45 PM
I think that John wrote exactly what he was supposed to. In a way, He gave the outline, Paul filled it all in. John gave us the point-blank way it is. Paul expounded on it by giving us more detailed and in-depth answers and real-life scenarios. Both lead us to the knowledge that we can do nothing without Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, we are just the shells and no filling.
God Bless.

How do you these answers so well and so succinctly? :kiss:

Romans7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

That's awfully pragmatic, but it illustrates for me the fight as we struggle with sin. John writes of lies, to ourselves and to God about sin, or the deceit of having none. Paul admits his sins and his struggle, the same struggle we all have.

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 05:56 PM
How do you these answers so well and so succinctly? :kiss:

Romans7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

That's awfully pragmatic, but it illustrates for me the fight as we struggle with sin. John writes of lies, to ourselves and to God about sin, or the deceit of having none. Paul admits his sins and his struggle, the same struggle we all have.

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Those are some of my favorite verses from Paul. I love them because it DOES explain just how I feel, as well as how Paul was feeling. It lets me know that I am not alone in my struggle. Also a big reason why I rededicated my life to Christ many years ago. After reading and understanding that it isn't what we do, but where our heart is, that truly matters. God knows our hearts. If we have a heart of repentance and truly rebuke our sin, we are saved. God Bless.

Cloudwalker
Feb 16th 2007, 06:04 PM
David was a man after God's own heart, and look at what all he did. He had a man killed so he could have the wife. it comforts me to know these things. David sinned grieviously, but God knew his heart and He forgave him. It makes me realize that God knows our weaknesses. It doesn't matter how we fall to sin, it is the condition of our heart and our repentance that God sees.

A good point but there is a lesson here as well. The lesson comes when we realize why David was a "Man after Gods own heart." It becomes clerer when we compair David with Saul, who God rejected. It is in their reaction when confronted by their sin. When Saul is confronted by his sin by Sammuel he trys to justify himself. When David is confronted by his sin by Nathan his reaction is "I have sinned." This is what makes him a "Man after Gods own heart." He admits is sin and repents. A lesson for us as well if we are to be "People after Gods own heart."

:pp By the way did someone mention lunch. Come on over I have plenty of Beef Stew and Rice to serve it over. :hug:

Mercy4Me
Feb 16th 2007, 06:09 PM
A good point but there is a lesson here as well. The lesson comes when we realize why David was a "Man after Gods own heart." It becomes clerer when we compair David with Saul, who God rejected. It is in their reaction when confronted by their sin. When Saul is confronted by his sin by Sammuel he trys to justify himself. When David is confronted by his sin by Nathan his reaction is "I have sinned." This is what makes him a "Man after Gods own heart." He admits is sin and repents. A lesson for us as well if we are to be "People after Gods own heart."

:pp By the way did someone mention lunch. Come on over I have plenty of Beef Stew and Rice to serve it over. :hug:
:agree: Good point!

Typing's done for me now...enjoying your discussion, tho! What time's lunch??

jesuslover1968
Feb 16th 2007, 06:52 PM
A good point but there is a lesson here as well. The lesson comes when we realize why David was a "Man after Gods own heart." It becomes clerer when we compair David with Saul, who God rejected. It is in their reaction when confronted by their sin. When Saul is confronted by his sin by Sammuel he trys to justify himself. When David is confronted by his sin by Nathan his reaction is "I have sinned." This is what makes him a "Man after Gods own heart." He admits is sin and repents. A lesson for us as well if we are to be "People after Gods own heart."

:pp By the way did someone mention lunch. Come on over I have plenty of Beef Stew and Rice to serve it over. :hug:


yep, I understood that lesson, hence the knew his heart thing. David had a repentant heart, Saul did not. :) What I was saying is that even though we sin, it is our heart condition that God sees, not the sin. If our heart is where it should be, our sins are hid in Christ. If our hearts are cold and unrepentant, our sins are plain as day to God, and we will be judged.:)
And did you mention stew? Ugh! I am soooo hungry and that sounds sooo good. I am eating cheetos....:lol: stew would be soooo much better. :hug: God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 07:13 PM
yep, I understood that lesson, hence the knew his heart thing. David had a repentant heart, Saul did not. :) What I was saying is that even though we sin, it is our heart condition that God sees, not the sin. If our heart is where it should be, our sins are hid in Christ. If our hearts are cold and unrepentant, our sins are plain as day to God, and we will be judged.:)
And did you mention stew? Ugh! I am soooo hungry and that sounds sooo good. I am eating cheetos....:lol: stew would be soooo much better. :hug: God Bless.

I love cheetos! Pass 'em over! :D Orange fingers nothwithstanding.

Romans7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

What you posted makes this verse really jump! He knows we fall, none of us is worthy, but He sees our hearts.

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

SeattleSun
Feb 16th 2007, 08:30 PM
Hmmm, I've mentioned this before, but JMac's devotional of the day seems to be related to our discussions again. :hmm:

The Joy of Pleasing God -- A repentent heart!

Perhaps you haven't given much thought to how you can bring joy to God, but Scripture mentions several ways. Luke 15:7, for example, says, "There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance." Verse 10 adds, "There is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Repentance brings joy to God.

The other three JMac lists are faith, prayer and righteous living.


Repentance, faith, prayer, and righteous living all please God because they are expressions of love. That's the over-arching principle. Whenever you express your love to Him--whether by words of praise or acts of obedience--you bring Him joy.
Doesn't it thrill you to know that the God of the universe delights in you? It should! Let that realization motivate you to find as many ways as possible to bring Him joy today.


I just thought I'd share. His grace lets us love Him. His grace makes our repentance be real.

MsLibby
Feb 16th 2007, 09:35 PM
see, they blamed it ALL on you while you weren't looking....LOL...

Sigh...they blame it all on me...you steal my smilies...http://home.no.net/birgif/glis/nervest.gif

hahahha

Graceblest
Feb 17th 2007, 12:46 AM
:hug: That's really interesting to me about Mary putting some "finishing touches" on John. Actually, we know that Jesus was the primary "touch" on them both! But He knew that they needed each other. This was her firstborn Son who was giving His life for the sins of the world. She was in immense grief! She had the additional burden of knowing that her Son would also be her Savior! John had learned to lean on Jesus and was learning more and more about loving as He does, but with Him going to His Father, the physical contact with John would cease and John's emotional grief would be immense. Jesus placed probably the two most influential people in HIS life together to love and support each other. His mother, well, let's just say that Jesus' love for His mother and hers for Him was extremely deep! And John had figured out that, despite his beginnings as a Son of Thunder, Jesus had a giant love for him. In his gospel he calls himself "the disciple whom Jesus loved." What more can be said?

Cloudwalker
Feb 17th 2007, 01:41 AM
To have a big love God starts with a strong personality. He then breaks, usually crushing them, and then rebuilds them. To be the Apostle of Love John would have to have a strong personality. Only someone like one of the "Sons of Thunder" could become the Apostle of Love.

Cloudwalker
Feb 17th 2007, 03:43 AM
I was reading in the Peter thread, trying to catch up (almost 3/4 of the way now) when I read this.



Wow...this is awesome...especially when you consider we span four time zones, yet can be this kind of a family


Now, not only 4 time zones but the entire continent. SS is in Seattle and I'm in Florida. Can't get much further apart and stay on the continent. BTW. I spent 4 years in Ft. Worth. (I've also visited Salt Lake City and Colorado). Family is not mesured by miles but by hearts.

Graceblest
Feb 17th 2007, 04:42 AM
How true, Cloud!

Hallelujah!

Cloudwalker
Feb 19th 2007, 01:59 AM
Mercy, as you know I have been reading through the posts on the Peter thread trying to catch up with you. I have to say that there is a lot of good material there. I am posting this hear because I wanted to be sure that you saw it and I don't know if you check over there much but I had a thought that I felt I must share with you. Back in November (where I am currently reading) you went through a particularly rough time (mostly physically but also spiritually). While trying to help you understand and get through there was a discussion about the power of praise and it's ability to help you. I do not know what your current situation is but I feel that these words may help (if not you then maybe someone else). I am at work and do not have access to my Bible or study helps but I know that the Bible does say that "God inhabits the praise of His people." (One of you out there probably can find the reference. If this is true imagine the power there is in praise when God dwells within it.

Mercy4Me
Feb 19th 2007, 05:04 AM
(Psa 22:3) But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Thanks, CW...

Yes, I have been and still am having some physical trials, which are likely to continue unless God intervenes miraculously. My husband's favorite verse is "In everything, give thanks"...I'm not sure if I've actually given thanks for this, but I have come to a place of acceptance and a clear understanding that God has all things under control. I guess that giving thanks and praising Him go hand in hand, and it probably is something I need to do more of in this particular situation.

Thank you for the reminder and encouragement!

SeattleSun
Feb 19th 2007, 04:04 PM
Good morning and happy Monday! :wave:

Favor please, pray for the Holy Spirit to keep working on my Mom to open her heart all the way to Jesus. Pray for me that I'll hear and obey so I can do what He wants me to do.

Something big happened last night, but she's still not there, not quite. She's a stubborn woman, but He's just as stubborn and He's sure more powerful.

MsLibby
Feb 19th 2007, 04:09 PM
Good morning everyone. :wave:

Grace, I enjoyed your thoughts on Mary and John. Good insight here. And CW...
To have a big love God starts with a strong personality. He then breaks, usually crushing them, and then rebuilds them. To be the Apostle of Love John would have to have a strong personality. Only someone like one of the "Sons of Thunder" could become the Apostle of Love. awesome. Big love ~ big personality. This makes perfect sense.

I'm learning so much with this study of John.

Praise...I've been learning the lesson of praise, too. I recently read 'The Hiding Place' again. There's a wonderful lesson about praising Him for everything in Corrie's life...have you guys ever read it? When they get put inside that awful concentration camp, Corrie said there was no way she was going to thank God for the fleas. Her sister, Betsy said, 'everything, Corrie, we must thank HIm for everything'. So Corrie grudingly gave thanks for even those terrible fleas. Come to find out that it was the fleas, those very fleas, that enabled them to be able to have their Bible studies in that evil place...because of those fleas the guards wouldn't come in there. It was the fleas that enabled them to lead the others to Christ. How amazing is that????? So many times, I've remembered those fleas...

What's next, Sonja? You're the boss, applesauce. :lol:

MsLibby
Feb 19th 2007, 04:12 PM
Good morning and happy Monday! :wave:

Favor please, pray for the Holy Spirit to keep working on my Mom to open her heart all the way to Jesus. Pray for me that I'll hear and obey so I can do what He wants me to do.

Something big happened last night, but she's still not there, not quite. She's a stubborn woman, but He's just as stubborn and He's sure more powerful.

I'm with you, dear sister. You know I've been praying for her for 9 months now...today I'll be extra vigilant with my prayers. Perhaps today is the day of salvation? How I've longed for this...how we both have longed for this...:hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 19th 2007, 04:32 PM
I'm with you, dear sister. You know I've been praying for her for 9 months now...today I'll be extra vigilant with my prayers. Perhaps today is the day of salvation? How I've longed for this...how we both have longed for this...:hug:

Has it been nine months???? A perfect time to be born again. :pp

Thank you dearest Elizabeth. :hug: You have His ear whether you know it or not! :kiss: We need our lists to be shortened.




Praise...I've been learning the lesson of praise, too. I recently read 'The Hiding Place' again. There's a wonderful lesson about praising Him for everything in Corrie's life...have you guys ever read it? When they get put inside that awful concentration camp, Corrie said there was no way she was going to thank God for the fleas. Her sister, Betsy said, 'everything, Corrie, we must thank HIm for everything'. So Corrie grudingly gave thanks for even those terrible fleas. Come to find out that it was the fleas, those very fleas, that enabled them to be able to have their Bible studies in that evil place...because of those fleas the guards wouldn't come in there. It was the fleas that enabled them to lead the others to Christ. How amazing is that????? So many times, I've remembered those fleas...



Oh gosh. Its hard to wrap my head around this ... I've never heard it. Paul did his best work in his imprisonment. If he was able to go to all the people, would he have written these epistles? If he hadn't ... I don't want to imagine.

MsLibby
Feb 19th 2007, 04:54 PM
That flea story was such a simple illustration of how God works in the midst of trials. Those fleas were a terrible burden to those women and still, Betsy insisted that if God gave them the fleas, then they must be thankful. Corrie very grudingly obeyed...thanking Him, I mean. Yet those awful horrible little fleas were the only reason they were able to have their Bible studies...they were able to read of God's love to those other poor women and so many learned of His mercies in the midst of that concentration camp. There have been many times in my own life when something sure didn't seem like it was from Him when I had to remember the lesson that Corrie Ten Boom shared. Even the fleas are used for His glory.

I've wondered how much His light would have been able to shine if they hadn't given thanks for them? We can never know the answer to that, but I would guess it was by thanking Him for those dreadful critters that the blessings were showered down.

That story impacted my life so much...there must be thousands more that it had an impact on. All because those women were able to see past the inconvenience, the reality of those little fleas...to find God at work through them.

Mercy4Me
Feb 19th 2007, 05:40 PM
Good morning, everybody! I'll be out and about today and won't be around, but I wanted to say hi!

Sonja, I'll be praying for your mom today...9 months! Born again! Yes!!!

Libby, thanks for your thoughts and the reminder of the flea story...that really struck me, too, but I had forgotten it! Okay, you guys are moving me to thank God for pain, which I never thought I could ever do...I can't do it unless I really mean it, and I don't really mean it yet, but I am going to think it all through and get there...

Grace, I also appreciated your insights on John...you're right, only someone with such a strong personality could funnel all that energy into becoming the apostle of Love! Libby, you know what that means...that's you, honey! You, the Daughter of Thunder :D becoming our own "apostle" of Love! I think you're 3/4 of the way there, anyway...if not farther!

btw, Libby, Lucas stopped smoking three days ago...the day you prayed? Today's his fourth day, he's going crazy (or was last night, haven't seen him much yet this morning!)...he was losing his resolve and wondering why in the world he stopped in the first place...but as far as I know, he hasn't given up yet. Continued prayer appreciated!

Gotta stop, gotta go...love you all! :hug: :kiss: :hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 19th 2007, 05:58 PM
Hey Mercy! :hug: This day is busy for everyone! I got a potluck with my fellowship group tonight, so I have to make my dish pretty soon. Oh, I also have my church membership interview! Lots of paperwork and that's done, so this is the final step. A short prayer will be appreciated for that too, so I don't sound like an idiot. Things like this make me nervous. :rolleyes:

Prayers for Lucas! Good for him! :pp Lots of water to flush the nicotine out, and here's another tip -- get coffee stirrers, those stiff little straws. Give him something to substitute the handling of a ciggie. It helps!

SeattleSun
Feb 19th 2007, 06:16 PM
7. Refresh yourself with the story of Christ's Transfiguration and the event that immediately follow it be reading Mark 9:1-28. Why do the events on the mountain fulfill the prediction Jesus made in verse 1?

SeattleSun
Feb 19th 2007, 09:10 PM
7. Refresh yourself with the story of Christ's Transfiguration and the event that immediately follow it be reading Mark 9:1-28. Why do the events on the mountain fulfill the prediction Jesus made in verse 1?

9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

The Transfiguration was a preview of His coming Kingdom, with Christ appearing in all His glory with Moses and Elijah. He had already told them of his impending death and resurrection, but here was proof of His promise of eternal life.

Question (of course), how did John, Peter and James know it was Elijah and Moses? Or is that in a different prophesy?

Cloudwalker
Feb 20th 2007, 02:32 AM
Question (of course), how did John, Peter and James know it was Elijah and Moses? Or is that in a different prophesy?

I suppose that either God granted them a devine revelation or they were able to figure it out by the conversation. It is also possible that Christ told them later. We may never know this side of heaven.

SeattleSun
Feb 20th 2007, 03:29 PM
I suppose that either God granted them a devine revelation or they were able to figure it out by the conversation. It is also possible that Christ told them later. We may never know this side of heaven.

Thanks! I never thought about it before, so it may be one of those mysteries we won't know during our stay on earth.

I aced my interview, which was something of a surprise since it didn't start until almost 9:30pm instead of 6, so I was barely articulate. So in a few days, I'll be an official member of Mars Hill Church listed on their records! :pp

Oh! Good morning! :wave:

Mercy4Me
Feb 20th 2007, 04:08 PM
Thanks! I never thought about it before, so it may be one of those mysteries we won't know during our stay on earth.

I aced my interview, which was something of a surprise since it didn't start until almost 9:30pm instead of 6, so I was barely articulate. So in a few days, I'll be an official member of Mars Hill Church listed on their records! :pp

Oh! Good morning! :wave:

Good morning, Sonja! I'm happy for you! I'm more happy, though, that your name is written in the Book of Life, and listed on HIS record! :pp:hug:

Anything new with Mom?

Lucas is still hanging in there...five days now...he just might make it!

Yesterday I started back on a new med that I'd tried once before...made me dizzy and fuzzy and gain weight, which I'm going to try to avoid this time by starting some exercise and watching my food intake :mad: So...if I say anything off the wall...it may just be my usual babbling ramble or it may be fuzzy-headed thinking! Need to try this med again to calm nerves down, though...possible RSD starting, which is not good (that is what Mieke has, although full-body; mine's only in my arm so far and hoping to make it go away!).

Anyway, here I am babbling already! And nothing to do with John! Sorry...

I would have answered your question just like CW, Sonja...somehow, they just knew!


7. Refresh yourself with the story of Christ's Transfiguration and the event that immediately follow it be reading Mark 9:1-28. Why do the events on the mountain fulfill the prediction Jesus made in verse 1?

9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

The Transfiguration was a preview of His coming Kingdom, with Christ appearing in all His glory with Moses and Elijah. He had already told them of his impending death and resurrection, but here was proof of His promise of eternal life.



Great response, here, Sonja...I agree. Grrr...these italics won't go away! Sorry!

Okay...last night...I prayed to thank God for my injury/illness. It didn't come easy. I don't know where He'll take me with this...but I do know I won't go there alone. And I also know He has my best in mind, and that His way is always best. So...now I need to turn my attention to praising Him for His goodness and MERCY, which is where my user name came from...I need to see and know His Mercy4Me! And thank Him for it!

:OFFT:

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 20th 2007, 04:52 PM
Okay...last night...I prayed to thank God for my injury/illness. It didn't come easy. I don't know where He'll take me with this...but I do know I won't go there alone. And I also know He has my best in mind, and that His way is always best. So...now I need to turn my attention to praising Him for His goodness and MERCY, which is where my user name came from...I need to see and know His Mercy4Me! And thank Him for it!



:hug: Boy, I can sympathize, not at this level, but I'm not good at praying, not like I want to be, whatever that means. Too often, I don't focus enough, or I'm all over the place. Another thing I pray for.

Philippians 4:11 I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.

Its like Libby's Corrie story. Thanking Him for His daily blessings along with our trials. He's using those trials to perfect His will in us.

Oh, in regards to Mom, we're in the same place. Which is okay, since we haven't gone backwards. Its an extended period of labor.

Cloudwalker
Feb 20th 2007, 05:27 PM
Too often, I don't focus enough, or I'm all over the place.

Sonja, Have you tried praying with a notebook handy. When something causes you to loose focus or you find something causing you to go "all over the place" write it down. That will help you get it out of your system and then later you can go back and deal with those things. Might help.

SeattleSun
Feb 20th 2007, 06:03 PM
Sonja, Have you tried praying with a notebook handy. When something causes you to loose focus or you find something causing you to go "all over the place" write it down. That will help you get it out of your system and then later you can go back and deal with those things. Might help.

Hey, thanks for the advice. Really, it might very well help! And its definitely worth a try. I get frustrated when that happens and I lose concentration so then comes distraction. Sigh, it'll come as I mature. One thing that makes me get down on myself are people very mature in their faith, and how they can pray in a group. Its so easy for them, and they pray so powerfully. I feel inadequate in a way, even though I know I shouldn't.

Its funny, its much easier for me to pray all during the day. I just deal with one thing at a time. Now, if I could just learn to put that all together.

Cloudwalker
Feb 21st 2007, 12:03 AM
Sonja, some people never become comfortable praying in public. I know people who have been christians for decades that can't do it. I also know people who have been christians for a short time that can do it right off. Don't get down and/or fustrated with yourself. I also know people who have been christians for quite a while that are not near as insightful, clear thinking, or articulate as you are. God gives each of us gifts. We are expected to use and develop those gifts but he doesn't want us to get down on ourselves because we are not as good as someone else at something. The only person we have to compete with is ourselves. As long as we are growing in Christ that is all that is expected. :hug: :pray:

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 01:24 AM
Thank you CW. :hug: Such kind words. You bring Romans 12:8 to life!

I'll learn, I'm sure trying and I know He's doing His part and more so. How did those OT people cope without the Holy Spirit? I know what they did as required by the law, but I suppose much of it was out of fear of His wrath (valid feeling).

There's such deep, deep reverance for the Lord, but the Spirit seems to be missing. Does that make sense? I'm not even sure what I'm trying to convey -- a lack of joy? David seemed to be full of the Spirit, Joshua too. Did God send the Spirit to His favorites? Sorry, the OT is really new to me, but honestly, I get so much out of it for my life today, but also a lot of points to ponder.

Cloudwalker
Feb 21st 2007, 02:33 AM
:pp I finally finished Peter. :monkeyd: Now on to Andrew. I'm catching up.

Sonja, you were talking on the Peter thread about not being a baker. If I ever get over to your area I'll teach you. I'm a good baker, especially with bread. I make Challa, Seseme Parmasan Cressent rolls, Pumpernickle among others. Bread is very forgiving.



There's such deep, deep reverance for the Lord, but the Spirit seems to be missing. Does that make sense? I'm not even sure what I'm trying to convey -- a lack of joy? David seemed to be full of the Spirit, Joshua too. Did God send the Spirit to His favorites?


In essence, yes. The Spirit was very active in the OT but it didn't come and dwell in everyone like it does now. It came and filled certain people at certain times and it could leave as well. One of the saddest examples of this happens in Judges with the story of Sampson. The verse reads "and Sampson didn't know that the Spirit had left him." It had left because of his sin. And because of his sin he ended up in the Philisten prision house blind and grinding grain.

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 03:18 AM
Sonja, you were talking on the Peter thread about not being a baker. If I ever get over to your area I'll teach you. I'm a good baker, especially with bread. I make Challa, Seseme Parmasan Cressent rolls, Pumpernickle among others. Bread is very forgiving.



Anytime! :pp I kill those poor little yeast guys and end up with brick-like things. Its hard to eat a brick, literally!



In essence, yes. The Spirit was very active in the OT but it didn't come and dwell in everyone like it does now. It came and filled certain people at certain times and it could leave as well. One of the saddest examples of this happens in Judges with the story of Sampson. The verse reads "and Sampson didn't know that the Spirit had left him." It had left because of his sin. And because of his sin he ended up in the Philisten prision house blind and grinding grain.


You know, I'm not ready for Judges. I've read all around it, but it was such an awful time. I'm getting myself ready to read it. And your answer is very helpful! Confession. I wouldn't read about the Crucifixion in the Gospels for a long time, just moved on to another book. I'm much braver. So the Spirit was there! God needed His men to lead. Or at least one.

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 02:49 PM
Morning, little TOMers. :lol:

Wow, lots to respond to...

MISTY ~ where you be girl??? :hug:



Okay...last night...I prayed to thank God for my injury/illness. It didn't come easy. I don't know where He'll take me with this...but I do know I won't go there alone. And I also know He has my best in mind, and that His way is always best. So...now I need to turn my attention to praising Him for His goodness and MERCY, which is where my user name came from...I need to see and know His Mercy4Me! And thank Him for it!



Mercy, I got shivers reading this. All that is going through my mind is BREAKTHROUGH. That word just played itself over and over as I read your words. Honey...that's the best start. Ask Him to help you thank Him. I love your words "I don't know where He'll take me with this...but I do know I won't go there alone." Ask Him to pick you up when needed, and to carry you in His arms til you are able to stand firm. I'm more than convinced, victory comes through praise. Maybe it would help you to read some of the Psalms? So often David was hurting, mortally afraid, but he always ended with praise. If you don't have your own praise, use David's. :)

CW ~ the Spirit left Sampson and Sampson didn't know it? Oh...how VERY SAD. I barely remember the story of Sampson, but I do remember once my dad preached a sermon on him and dad named the sermon "Sampson, the champ who turned into a chump." :lol: I used to love listening to my dad preach. But back to the Spirit leaving him...I don't remember that part. Those are terrible words, they frighten me just reading them...to even think the Spirit could leave. I know He doesn't leave us, and I know that He left Sampson because of unconfessed sin (among other things) but still...just the idea of the Spirit leaving is heartbreaking. Poor Sampson. I'm sure he has a place in Glory, though...I think of him as looking like Hulk Hogan. One of these days I'll find out. :)




I also know people who have been christians for quite a while that are not near as insightful, clear thinking, or articulate as you are.


BRAVO, CW!!! What a wonderful way of describing Sonja's walk!! I couldn't agree more!

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 02:57 PM
Good morning! :wave:



MISTY ~ where you be girl??? :hug:



Yeah. Let's send a search party and hunt her down.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/allied-li-run.gif

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 03:06 PM
Good morning! Thanks, Libby, for the reminder about Psalms...I think I will start reading there. I've never spent much time in Psalms, more of a "read one every once in a while" sort of thing. But maybe I need to be there now.

CW, I also agree about Sonja! Great post!

Sonja, :hug: :hug: ! Are those things searching for Misty bagpipes? :spin:

I am on a new med, remember...plus I have a cold, which isn't helping my brainpower much...but it really looks like bagpipes!

Lucas is STILL hanging in! I think the worst is over...he's coming out of his room a bit more and interacting more! Praise God! Now if only he'll stick with it! Bill smokes, which is I'm sure what prompted Luke to start...no one smokes in the house at all, thankfully, and Bill is trying not to smoke around Luke at all. I guess we'll see...I'm hoping Bill will be prompted to quit soon, too. He has to be ready, though; he's smoked since he was like 12 or so, and has never been able to stop. God will lead him in His timing, I guess...

Okay, gotta get busy and get the day started!

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 03:22 PM
Oh, Mercy, I forgot to mention how wonderful your news is about Luke! :hug:

(no, those aren't bagpipes. :) )

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 03:36 PM
Oh, Mercy, I forgot to mention how wonderful your news is about Luke! :hug:

(no, those aren't bagpipes. :) )

:pp Yay for Lucas! Its so hard.

Lol, those be an armed search party looking for Misty. Once they find her, the chase is on!

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/chase.gif You can run Misty, but you can't hide.

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 03:37 PM
Okay, now I see...they're smiley soldiers...got it! It was my glasses...these dern trifocals...


"I can see clearly, now, the rain is gone!"

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 03:38 PM
8. Since John and his brother James were known by their ambitious natures, why would it be especially difficult for them to obey Jesus and not to talk about the experience on the mountaintop? Why would such a supernatural experience make is especially easy to start debating issues of status?

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 03:44 PM
8. Since John and his brother James were known by their ambitious natures, why would it be especially difficult for them to obey Jesus and not to talk about the experience on the mountaintop? Why would such a supernatural experience make is especially easy to start debating issues of status?

Well, there would be few things in life that would equal being with GOD on a mountaintop, along with His prophet and leader! I mean, wow! Of course, anyone with an ambitious nature (or even some without!) would want to make sure everyone knew about this experience! They must have really felt like the "chosen few", even among (or especially among) the other disciples.

I never thought of it like this, but it was a lot for Jesus to ask of them!
I'm sure He knew that, too, and used it as another teaching and training and discipling tool...

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 03:45 PM
Lol, those be an armed search party looking for Misty. Once they find her, the chase is on!

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/chase.gif You can run Misty, but you can't hide.

I put out an APB on her. She might as well turn herself in. :lol:

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 03:47 PM
Well, there would be few things in life that would equal being with GOD on a mountaintop, along with His prophet and leader! I mean, wow! Of course, anyone with an ambitious nature (or even some without!) would want to make sure everyone knew about this experience! They must have really felt like the "chosen few", even among (or especially among) the other disciples.

I never thought of it like this, but it was a lot for Jesus to ask of them!
I'm sure He knew that, too, and used it as another teaching and training and discipling tool...


No kidding! I've never really pondered this either...I need to think about it a while. How could it NOT go to their heads...seriously? I think this is gonna be interesting.

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 04:11 PM
I can relate to this question being a past big mouth. :lol:


Well, there would be few things in life that would equal being with GOD on a mountaintop, along with His prophet and leader! I mean, wow! Of course, anyone with an ambitious nature (or even some without!) would want to make sure everyone knew about this experience! They must have really felt like the "chosen few", even among (or especially among) the other disciples.

I would think that the three talked about it among themselves, just because they would NEED to talk about it. How could you possibly keep that knowledge to yourself, hidden away? I'd explode, I really would.

JMac: "Can you imagine how difficult that would have been? They had just witnessed the most incredible thing anyone had ever seen, but they weren't allowed to tell anyone else about it. It was a formidable restraint to upon them"

And it seems natural that they felt superior to the others who didn't get to witness this extraordinary event. That would make it even harder to keep their mouths shut since they'd want to brag about it.

Jesus must've been quite pleased that they obeyed Him. :)

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 04:25 PM
Jesus must've been quite pleased that they obeyed Him. :)

You're right! Good thought! I heard someone say once that they wanted to live their whole lives trying to make God smile...or something to that effect. I mean, obviously He is pleased with His creation, but can you picture Him smiling when we obey Him? When we praise Him? When we adore Him? When we pour out our love toward Him? When we tell others about Him? When we love others for Him?

Interesting thought...what else would make God smile?

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 04:28 PM
When we talk to Him...when we spend time with Him...when we read His Words to us...when we fellowship with others who love Him...when we worship Him...when we cry out to Him...when we thank Him...

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:07 PM
Hey everybody! :wave: . I'm not hiding. Just have a lot going on. What have I missed?

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 05:07 PM
When we talk to Him...when we spend time with Him...when we read His Words to us...when we fellowship with others who love Him...when we worship Him...when we cry out to Him...when we thank Him...

I had a devotional this week about giving God joy. It was just wonderful! Repentence brings joy to God (Luke 15:7); Faith (Heb. 11:6); Prayer (Prov. 15:8); Righteous living (1 Chron 29:7; Prov 11:20). The study part of it was 1 Kings 3:3-15 -- Solomon asking God to give him wisdom and an understanding heart for discernment so he could judge his people. The Lord was so pleased with his selfless request that not only did He bless Solomon with the wisdom he asked for, He blessed him with riches, honor and long life the selfish people ask for.

We must have a servant's heart and a repentent heart to glorify Him.

Thank you Father, for the privilege of bringing You joy!

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 05:09 PM
Hey everybody! :wave: . I'm not hiding. Just have a lot going on. What have I missed?

I sent out the army for you! :lol:

Misty's here! http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/circle.gif How are you? We missed you! :hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:12 PM
8. Since John and his brother James were known by their ambitious natures, why would it be especially difficult for them to obey Jesus and not to talk about the experience on the mountaintop? Why would such a supernatural experience make is especially easy to start debating issues of status?


I can relate to this....hahaha. Ya know, they were very self-centered and all about who was the best, etc. I think it would have been hard to keep it quiet, especially for them, as it would surely have made their esteem that much higher to the public, therefore, raising their own self-estimation of themselves. Maybe that was one reason Jesus chose them...:hmm: I actually thought about how hard it must have been to keep quiet about it. I can only hope that I would have been able to. God Bless.

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:14 PM
I sent out the army for you! :lol:

Misty's here! http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/circle.gif How are you? We missed you! :hug:


I'm good, thank you. Glad to know I was missed...:lol: at least somebody wuvs me....hehehe.
I saw someone mentioned glasses. I have an appointment today. I have bifocals which I hardly ever wear because they just don't do the job anyway. It's hard for me to even read anything anymore without it all blurring together. :lol:

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 05:23 PM
Matthew 17 ~
1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2017;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23699a)] make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” 8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.” 10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2017;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23706b)] and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

I just noticed this verse (#8). Wow. "when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only."

Here's how I take this. They had a glimpse of the glory of God...for just a second. Same as I have...only for a glimpse there have been times when I've witnessed His Glory. But it's so overpowering that it only lasts a very short time, often only a second. Then, once it's over...it's Jesus, and Jesus alone, who's remaining. It's almost like a peek into heaven, like the veil is lifted for just a second, with all of His promises...and when it's over, it's Jesus still there. It's always Jesus whom we have to keep our eyes on...wow.

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 05:34 PM
Making God smile...you guys ~ such beautiful thoughts. :hug: Oh, to please God...

MsLibby
Feb 21st 2007, 05:35 PM
I have an appointment today.


Yes, and it's right here with us. :lol:

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 05:39 PM
I'm good, thank you. Glad to know I was missed...:lol: at least somebody wuvs me....hehehe.
I saw someone mentioned glasses. I have an appointment today. I have bifocals which I hardly ever wear because they just don't do the job anyway. It's hard for me to even read anything anymore without it all blurring together. :lol:

Hey, Misty! Welcome home! Did you see bagpipes searching for you, too? :spin:

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:47 PM
yes! Makes me feel good that I was missed! :hug:
I don't have an appointment afterall. I had to cancel it, so I will be around most of the day. :) God Bless.

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 05:49 PM
Yes, and it's right here with us. :lol:

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/yippee.gif

I found a whole bunch of really neat smilies to go along with the other ones. For some reason, you have to scroll way down the page. They're really cute!
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/grouphug02.gif

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/misc.php?do=showsmilies

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:55 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/yippee.gif

I found a whole bunch of really neat smilies to go along with the other ones. For some reason, you have to scroll way down the page. They're really cute!
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/grouphug02.gif

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/misc.php?do=showsmilies

I tried using them but can't get them to work. What do I do?

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 05:56 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/yippee.gif

I found a whole bunch of really neat smilies to go along with the other ones. For some reason, you have to scroll way down the page. They're really cute!
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/grouphug02.gif

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/misc.php?do=showsmilies


http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif I like this one...it's me today...it's called "idiot" http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 05:57 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif I like this one...it's me today...it's called "idiot" http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif

That's how I feel cause I can't make them work. :lol:

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 05:57 PM
I tried using them but can't get them to work. What do I do?

I just right clicked on the one I wanted and clicked "copy", then "paste"...

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 05:57 PM
I tried using them but can't get them to work. What do I do?

Hmmm, right click on the smilie and copy, then come back to your post and click paste.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/why.gif

Try that!

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 05:58 PM
Hey, the four Andrew Sisters are all online at the same time!

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/gatherin.gif

We're missing one...I'm taking the picture :D

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 06:01 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif I like this one...it's me today...it's called "idiot" http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif


http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/hysterical.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 06:06 PM
Hey, the four Andrew Sisters are all online at the same time!

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/gatherin.gif

We're missing one...I'm taking the picture :D

We're the John Sisters now. http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/sadangel.gif

Awww, poor widdle smilie lost his wings. :(

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 06:07 PM
Hmmm, right click on the smilie and copy, then come back to your post and click paste.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/why.gif

Try that!

that's what I did, and that was the one I was gunna use, too! LOL. Let me try it again...

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 06:09 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/aetsch.gif...hmmm...now it works.....hehehehttp://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/friends.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 06:20 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/aetsch.gif...hmmm...now it works.....hehehe


http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/friends.gif Hey, these are stealable too! :rofl:

jesuslover1968
Feb 21st 2007, 06:22 PM
Hey, these are stealable too! :rofl:


LOL...http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/friends.gif
yep you can....

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 07:04 PM
Matthew 17 ~
1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2017;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23699a)] make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” 8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.” 10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2017;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23706b)] and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

I just noticed this verse (#8). Wow. "when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only."

Here's how I take this. They had a glimpse of the glory of God...for just a second. Same as I have...only for a glimpse there have been times when I've witnessed His Glory. But it's so overpowering that it only lasts a very short time, often only a second. Then, once it's over...it's Jesus, and Jesus alone, who's remaining. It's almost like a peek into heaven, like the veil is lifted for just a second, with all of His promises...and when it's over, it's Jesus still there. It's always Jesus whom we have to keep our eyes on...wow.

Was it Moses who also caught a glimpse of God? Short-term memory is the next thing to go, after eyesight and knees. :rolleyes: IIRC, he saw only his shoulder because if he saw more, he would surely die.

I've never had a vision of His glory, I don't think. I always picture Him as He is in Revelation, King of kings and Lord of lords, coming in righteousness to judge and make war. That's sure different than those paintings depicting Him with John.

SeattleSun
Feb 21st 2007, 08:54 PM
WOO HOO!!!! Thank you Father!!!!

Liz got a house! They're moving in tomorrow night! :eek: There's been five extra people living in her apartment with no place for little kids to run around. Needless to say, they're getting on each other's nerves. :lol:

Prayers answered! It took longer than expected, so this MUST be the house He wants them to have!

:pp :pp :pp :pp

Mercy4Me
Feb 21st 2007, 10:45 PM
WOO HOO!!!! Thank you Father!!!!

Liz got a house! They're moving in tomorrow night! :eek: There's been five extra people living in her apartment with no place for little kids to run around. Needless to say, they're getting on each other's nerves. :lol:

Prayers answered! It took longer than expected, so this MUST be the house He wants them to have!

:pp :pp :pp :pp

Yeah!!! Happy dance for you, Libby!!! God's plan...is so perfect!

Cloudwalker
Feb 22nd 2007, 04:36 AM
Was it Moses who also caught a glimpse of God? Short-term memory is the next thing to go, after eyesight and knees. IIRC, he saw only his shoulder because if he saw more, he would surely die.

The only one I remember getting a glimpse of God was one of the prophets. I forget which one, but God hid him in a cleft of rock and then covered it with his hand and only let the prophet see his back.

They say the mind is the second thing to go. I forget what the first is. :rofl:

Mercy4Me
Feb 22nd 2007, 05:37 AM
All right, you guys...I'M sick and on weird new meds, and even I know this one! Yes, it was Moses...look at this verse:

Exodus 33:11:
Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Then, a little later, Exodus 33:



3:15 And he said to him, "If your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here.
Exo 33:16 For how shall it be known that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people? Is it not in your going with us, so that we are distinct, I and your people, from every other people on the face of the earth?"
Exo 33:17 And the LORD said to Moses, "This very thing that you have spoken I will do, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name."
Exo 33:18 Moses said, "Please show me your glory."
Exo 33:19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Exo 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live."
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock,
Exo 33:22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
Exo 33:23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen."



This occurred just before Moses returned to the mountain the second time for the tablets of the Law.

This is really an awesome story...Moses talked with God as a man talks to a friend, but he wouldn't be allowed to see His face, because he wouldn't live. Wow.



They say the mind is the second thing to go. I forget what the first is. :rofl:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I may have known WHO, but I won't tell you how long it took me to find the reference. :blush:

SeattleSun
Feb 22nd 2007, 03:50 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/animated.gif Good morning!



They say the mind is the second thing to go. I forget what the first is.


:rofl: http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/leb.gif <--- searching for our lost minds.

I'm going to be missing most of the day, taking Mom for an endoscopy which will take awhile. You'll have to carry on without me, so soldier on!

Hmmm, I wonder if God turning His back to Moses means anything. :hmm:

Mercy4Me
Feb 22nd 2007, 04:08 PM
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/animated.gif Good morning!



:rofl: http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/leb.gif <--- searching for our lost minds.

I'm going to be missing most of the day, taking Mom for an endoscopy which will take awhile. You'll have to carry on without me, so soldier on!

Hmmm, I wonder if God turning His back to Moses means anything. :hmm:

Good morning! He was being merciful to him, because He said if anyone saw His face they wouldn't live...

Amazing God we have!

Hope the endoscopy goes well...we'll be missing you! We're busy today, too... :hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 23rd 2007, 01:32 AM
Okay, I ask that in regard to post 226 on this thread (I don't want to quote it), that you pray for Libby. Lift her up to Jesus, to protect her, physically and to protect her heart.

In Thy righteousness deliver me, and rescue me; Incline Thine ear to me, and save me. Be Thou to me a rock of habitation, to which I may continually come, Though hast given comandment to save me. For Thou art my rock and my fortress.

Psalm 71:2-3

In Jesus' name, Amen

Mercy4Me
Feb 23rd 2007, 11:47 AM
Okay, praying...

CW, how are things going on your other board? Did the problems stay resolved?

Good morning to all...been up half the night coughing like crazy. I just took some prescription cough medicine from last year...hope I can get a bit more sleep.

Anyway, thought I'd pop in and send :hug: :hug: :hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 23rd 2007, 04:24 PM
Good morning! :wave:

Liz update: After this horrible setback, she came home yesterday and witnessed true Godly sorrow in her daughter. A huge development and His hand is, of course, all over everything. After telling the realtor that they wouldn't be taking the house, Liz called him last night to ask if they could still have it. Yes! They'll be moving ASAP.

Two huge blessings that turned misery into joy. He is an awesome God!

We'll see her on Monday!

Now, where's our Misty? :mad: Mercy, how did the cough stuff work? Get some sleep! :hug:

jesuslover1968
Feb 23rd 2007, 04:32 PM
Good morning! :wave:

Liz update: After this horrible setback, she came home yesterday and witnessed true Godly sorrow in her daughter. A huge development and His hand is, of course, all over everything. After telling the realtor that they wouldn't be taking the house, Liz called him last night to ask if they could still have it. Yes! They'll be moving ASAP.

Two huge blessings that turned misery into joy. He is an awesome God!

We'll see her on Monday!

Now, where's our Misty? :mad: Mercy, how did the cough stuff work? Get some sleep! :hug:'



Here I is....:pp hey everybody!
My sister is on her way to California for a job. She's a nurse, btw. Anyhoo, I have been busy on the phone with her pretty much the last two days as she is coming here first for a short visit before she continues on to cali. I haven't seen her in over a year. :) God Bless.

btw, what horrible set back? I must have missed it...

SeattleSun
Feb 23rd 2007, 04:44 PM
'



Here I is....:pp hey everybody!
My sister is on her way to California for a job. She's a nurse, btw. Anyhoo, I have been busy on the phone with her pretty much the last two days as she is coming here first for a short visit before she continues on to cali. I haven't seen her in over a year. :) God Bless.

btw, what horrible set back? I must have missed it...

Hey you! :hug: What fun! When does she come?

I should Liz fill everyone in. There's six people crammed into her apartment, and then daughter freaked out over the house for not very good reasons. Long story. It was a mess, and then factor in totally frazzled nerves.

God was in control the whole time of course. Daughter received a big breakthrough in realizing how merciful and loving He is, and He guided them to the perfect house! Lots of prayers lifting up everyone were heard! So a happy ending, all for His glory! :pp

jesuslover1968
Feb 23rd 2007, 05:15 PM
Hey you! :hug: What fun! When does she come?

I should Liz fill everyone in. There's six people crammed into her apartment, and then daughter freaked out over the house for not very good reasons. Long story. It was a mess, and then factor in totally frazzled nerves.

God was in control the whole time of course. Daughter received a big breakthrough in realizing how merciful and loving He is, and He guided them to the perfect house! Lots of prayers lifting up everyone were heard! So a happy ending, all for His glory! :pp

well, that's great news!:pp
My sister will either be here very late tonight, or tomorrow, depending on how long she drives today. :) God Bless.

Cloudwalker
Feb 23rd 2007, 05:18 PM
<--- searching for our lost minds.

I used to say "of all the things I've lost in my life I miss my mind the most," but I've changed my mind. I don't miss it a bit. :bounce:


CW, how are things going on your other board? Did the problems stay resolved?


It looks like it. I'm not entirely satisfied as there was no real resolution of the problem, nor any discussion at all of how to keep it from happening again. They mostly said "we're not talking about this any more." There were some apologies on both sides but no discussion that would really solve the problem. However, we do have peace and for that I am thankful.

Mercy4Me
Feb 23rd 2007, 05:36 PM
used to say "of all the things I've lost in my life I miss my mind the most," but I've changed my mind. I don't miss it a bit. :bounce:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: CW, you are too funny!

Sonja, when you talk to Liz again, please tell her I am very happy and relieved that things are working out...and for the far greater good of daughter's eternal soul than just the purchase of a house! But I'm glad for that, too!

How'd your mom's endoscopy go?

The cough syrup didn't help much, but finally took a Benadryl at 6 a.m. to dry things up, and it knocked me out for a couple of hours! I needed it! Now the coughing's starting again, though...:mad:

Hi Misty, nice to see you! Hope your visit with your sis goes well!

:hug:

SeattleSun
Feb 23rd 2007, 06:36 PM
How'd your mom's endoscopy go?

Her ulcer is healed! :pp She no longer has to take the meds that cost almost $300 for one month, so that's good news too. Have to wait for the biopsy, but the doc thought all looked very good. Oh, when she came out, was she ever "happy". :rofl: My momma was stoned!


The cough syrup didn't help much, but finally took a Benadryl at 6 a.m. to dry things up, and it knocked me out for a couple of hours! I needed it! Now the coughing's starting again, though...:mad:


Go to the doc and see if you can get a new scrip. You'll really wear yourself out with that kind of cough and OTC stuff is worthless. Ugh, I hate coughs. You need to make it stop so you can get some rest! :hug:


I used to say "of all the things I've lost in my life I miss my mind the most," but I've changed my mind. I don't miss it a bit. :bounce:

:rofl: CW, have you lost this? :D

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/gabriellangosiawwan/IMG_0920.jpg

Mercy4Me
Feb 23rd 2007, 07:15 PM
Her ulcer is healed! :pp She no longer has to take the meds that cost almost $300 for one month, so that's good news too. Have to wait for the biopsy, but the doc thought all looked very good. Oh, when she came out, was she ever "happy". :rofl: My momma was stoned!



Go to the doc and see if you can get a new scrip. You'll really wear yourself out with that kind of cough and OTC stuff is worthless. Ugh, I hate coughs. You need to make it stop so you can get some rest! :hug:



:rofl: CW, have you lost this? :D

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/gabriellangosiawwan/IMG_0920.jpg

Sonja, I'm so happy for your mom! That's great!

I couldn't go to the doc even if I wanted to...unless it was a terrible emergency, I guess...we are fogged in AGAIN! Another new storm coming tonight, so they say. My hubby's going to take me grocery shopping when he gets home from work, if the fog lifts enough, and I'm taking him to dinner! Somewhere very cheap...we're financially challenged at the moment...but we haven't been on a "date" for a really long time! Hopefully I won't cough my way through it :blush: . I'll be fine, really...it seems better now.

http://mud.mm-a8.yimg.com/image/4207768387 (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5qiGPN9FnCABOnCJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBwdnA4NGZ 2BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNzcgR2dGlkA0kwMDFfNzA-/SIG=1dmo92v6i/EXP=1172344326/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo .com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253Fp%253Dmarbles%2526e i%253DUTF-8%2526fr%253Dslv8-wdgt%2526x%253Dwrt%26w=110%26h=149%26imgurl=www.zy ra.org.uk%252Fmarbles9.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%2 52Fwww.zyra.org.uk%252Fmarbles.htm%26size=5.5kB%26 name=marbles9.jpg%26p=marbles%26type=jpeg%26no=5%2 6tt=137,624%26oid=30ba0e13a9602110%26ei=UTF-8) My marbles look like this...if you happen to see them, let me know! I'm not holding out much hope, though...they've been missing for ages.

SeattleSun
Feb 23rd 2007, 07:42 PM
I couldn't go to the doc even if I wanted to...unless it was a terrible emergency, I guess...we are fogged in AGAIN! Another new storm coming tonight, so they say. My hubby's going to take me grocery shopping when he gets home from work, if the fog lifts enough, and I'm taking him to dinner! Somewhere very cheap...we're financially challenged at the moment...but we haven't been on a "date" for a really long time! Hopefully I won't cough my way through it :blush: . I'll be fine, really...it seems better now.



Snow and more snow. Now fog. I love fog (good thing :lol: ), as long as I can stay home. Be careful!!!!

Date night! Good for you! http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/dancing.gifhttp://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/date.gifhttp://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/ser.gif

Cloudwalker
Feb 24th 2007, 12:15 AM
CW, have you lost this? :D

Haven't lost anything that I can't do without. Sanity is vastly overrated. http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/hysterical.gif

(Good to have a new audience for my old jokes. Most of them are old enough that they have whiskers whiter than mine.)http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 24th 2007, 01:11 AM
Haven't lost anything that I can't do without. Sanity is vastly overrated.

(Good to have a new audience for my old jokes. Most of them are old enough that they have whiskers whiter than mine.)http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/idiot.gif

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/why.gif http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/hysterical.gif <---Misty trick, a smilie thief she is and she taught me. :D Keep 'em coming CW! :hug:

Cloudwalker
Feb 24th 2007, 01:25 AM
<---Misty trick, a smilie thief she is and she taught me. :D Keep 'em coming CW! :hug:

Thats how I got this guy in the first place http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/hysterical.gif

SeattleSun
Feb 24th 2007, 01:41 AM
Thats how I got this guy in the first place


http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/hysterical.gif I thought you http://www.powwows.com/gathering/images/smilies/why.gif

Cloudwalker
Feb 24th 2007, 03:26 AM
A bit off topic but thought you all might appreciate something I just posted on the poetry board. It's called "So I Lift Up My Lamp" and it is a definition of my place in the family of God and explains my ministry. I like to view it as my "commission" in the Army of God. God gave it to me to replace the one I had used since I was a kid. That one was good, and served me well, but God saw fit to give me one of my own. I just wish that the spacing on the original had come out on the board. I tried to fix it but it didn't seem to work.

Cloudwalker
Feb 25th 2007, 01:27 AM
I have been reading the posts in the Andrew thread and something Sonja said reminded me of a sermon I once preached. It was titled G+Y=M (God plus you equals a majority). It was about the power of one person when they are in Gods will. In that sermon I did some calculations. If 1 person brought 2 people to Christ in one month. And the next month those 2 each brought 2 people to Christ. And that continued. In 4 years there would be (hold onto your hats people) 278 Trillion new Christians. :o INCREDIBLE!!!

Mercy4Me
Feb 25th 2007, 01:31 AM
I have been reading the posts in the Andrew thread and something Sonja said reminded me of a sermon I once preached. It was titled G+Y=M (God plus you equals a majority). It was about the power of one person when they are in Gods will. In that sermon I did some calculations. If 1 person brought 2 people to Christ in one month. And the next month those 2 each brought 2 people to Christ. And that continued. In 4 years there would be (hold onto your hats people) 278 Trillion new Christians. :o INCREDIBLE!!!

Hey, CW, looks like I'm chasing you around the board this evening! :D

I've heard some similar statistics, using smaller numbers...like one new Christian per year, or something like that. This, though, is really incredible! I like that: God + Me = Majority!

Cloudwalker
Feb 25th 2007, 02:44 AM
Hey, CW, looks like I'm chasing you around the board this evening!



My thoughts exactly. :D G+Y=M is a sermon I preached on how 1 person can be used by God to do powerful things. One of the examples I used was the sunday school teacher that lead D.L. Moody to Christ. I also used Billy Graham and went to show how on how God used a person (a girl who was only 12 years old at the time) to change my life when I was in college. I challenged them to dare to make a difference. You can wake up now the sermon is over. :sleeping: