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napsnsnacks
Mar 19th 2007, 11:25 AM
A connection between this mark and the mark of the beast in Revelation? This seems more like a mark of God that preserves instead of damning.

EZEK 9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

EZEK 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

EZEK 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

EZEK 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

EZEK 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

EZEK 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

vinsight4u8
Mar 19th 2007, 12:20 PM
What kind of outfit did the man dress in?
linen

Move to Rev. 15 and what kind of outfit is seen to be worn by the seven angels?
linen

ross3421
Mar 19th 2007, 01:59 PM
A connection between this mark and the mark of the beast in Revelation? This seems more like a mark of God that preserves instead of damning.

EZEK 9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

EZEK 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

EZEK 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

EZEK 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

EZEK 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

EZEK 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

The account in Ezekiel is the account of end time Jerusalem (Babylon posing as New Jerusalem) is destroyed however a remnant of Israel are spared and Marked in thier forehead (144,000)

It is important to understand the relationship between the "forehead" and Israel as I see it signifying this remnant. Whereas "right hand" signifies the gentiles i.e the church.

Mark.

napsnsnacks
Mar 20th 2007, 12:49 AM
The account in Ezekiel is the account of end time Jerusalem (Babylon posing as New Jerusalem) is destroyed however a remnant of Israel are spared and Marked in thier forehead (144,000)

It is important to understand the relationship between the "forehead" and Israel as I see it signifying this remnant. Whereas "right hand" signifies the gentiles i.e the church.

Mark.

How will these believers be able to know that they are not or are not being tricked into receiving the mark of the beast.

The forehead only compared to the forehead and the hand?

ForceMajuere
Mar 20th 2007, 01:12 AM
How will these believers be able to know that they are not or are not being tricked into receiving the mark of the beast.

The forehead only compared to the forehead and the hand?

A '666' tatooed on your forehead no more makes you a child of Satan than a 'cross' etched on your physical forehead makes you a child of God. If you don't believe me take a look at a picture of Charles Manson, he had cross etched in his forehead.

What nobody looks at is what qualifies you to receive the 'mark' in Ezechiel from the writer's inkhorn. Ezech 9:4,"And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof."

Let's quit looking at the scripture like a gumshoe trying to solve a murder mystery and see things from God's perspective, in Spirit and Truth.

Sincerely,

FM

moonglow
Mar 20th 2007, 03:12 AM
How will these believers be able to know that they are not or are not being tricked into receiving the mark of the beast.

The forehead only compared to the forehead and the hand?

To be blunt here..where is your faith? (not asking you personally just making a point) here we have our GOD Almighty who created everything! Go look at a star and think about the awesome power in that...then think about God being so weak and helpless He would let any of us be tricked into taking the mark...doesn't word does it?

We were promised our Father would NOT lose any of us.

(too tired to look up the verse on that one right now) There is no way He would allow one of His children to be tricked....if you notice every single verse about the mark includes worshipping the beast too...its never ever mentioned alone. It takes BOTH of these things to happen...because they mean the same thing. The right hand means action, what we do...the forehead means where our thought are...our mind. Its not a physical thing...now of course many will disagree with that but you still cannot ingore the mark including worshipping the beast. Now that had to be done knowingly and willingly, right? In order to worship the beast you have to turn your back on God knowing full well what you are doing. Its a CHOICE. A clear, without a doubt you know full well what you are doing....no tricks involved. NOTHING in the bible that says 'watch out' you might be tricked and lose your soul. The Lord is to powerful for that! Image standing by and watching someone trick your child into setting themselves on fire and doing nothing about it...we wouldn't...we would protect our child and stop it...image how much more the Lord can do?


God bless

ross3421
Mar 20th 2007, 03:44 AM
How will these believers be able to know that they are not or are not being tricked into receiving the mark of the beast.

The forehead only compared to the forehead and the hand?

Those with the mark on the right hand are filled with the Spirit which will not allow them to be tricked.

quiet dove
Mar 20th 2007, 03:44 AM
I believe that taking the mark will be a decision, a choice that must be made to serve another god. A refusal to accept the true God. I dont think people will be tricked into it.

I think these may be one of the verses Moonglow is thinking about.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Naphal
Mar 20th 2007, 05:22 AM
To be blunt here..where is your faith? (not asking you personally just making a point) here we have our GOD Almighty who created everything! Go look at a star and think about the awesome power in that...then think about God being so weak and helpless He would let any of us be tricked into taking the mark...doesn't word does it?

We were promised our Father would NOT lose any of us.


Sounds like the doctrine of universal salvation to me. Is that topic allowed on this forum?

RogerW
Mar 20th 2007, 08:05 PM
A connection between this mark and the mark of the beast in Revelation? This seems more like a mark of God that preserves instead of damning.

EZEK 9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

EZEK 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

EZEK 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

EZEK 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

EZEK 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

EZEK 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Had you ever considered that the connection between the marking in Ezekiel is with the sealing in Rev 7? All the tribes of the children of Israel, or could we say all those saints from the OT who had died in faith who had not received the promised inheritance? Can we look at Rev 7, compare it with Ezekiel 9, and ask why these tribes of all the children of Israel had not been sealed? Is this a picture of the marking in Ezekiel 9? Hebrews tells us the OT saints died in faith but even in death they did not receive the promise. Why? Because God says without us they should not be made perfect. How does this, if it does, correlate to the sealing in Rev 7 and the marking in Ezekiel 9? The OT saints who had died in faith needed to be sealed, why?

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

RW

Saved7
Mar 20th 2007, 10:08 PM
How will these believers be able to know that they are not or are not being tricked into receiving the mark of the beast.

The forehead only compared to the forehead and the hand?


Because GOD is the One giving this mark. And I believe that it is a spiritual marking that only the spirit realm can see, and possibly even the believers in Christ Jesus. But who knows about the last part. I don't even think the bible mentions anything about us being able to see any sort of mark from God on us.:saint:

moonglow
Mar 20th 2007, 11:24 PM
Sounds like the doctrine of universal salvation to me. Is that topic allowed on this forum?

Oh for Pete sakes Naphal I wasn't talking about everyone in the world, I was talking about the believers only...

Matthew 18:14
In the same way, it is not my heavenly Fatherís will that even one of these little ones should perish.

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Fatherís hand.

I assumed most would know what verses I was refering too when I posted that...but I was apparently wrong. :cool:

Naphal
Mar 20th 2007, 11:39 PM
Oh for Pete sakes Naphal I wasn't talking about everyone in the world, I was talking about the believers only...

Uh, thanks for the lively correction lol




Matthew 18:14
In the same way, it is not my heavenly Fatherís will that even one of these little ones should perish.

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Fatherís hand.

I assumed most would know what verses I was refering too when I posted that...but I was apparently wrong. :cool:


No one can snatch them away but they can leave of their own accord. Any unforgiveable sin committed would accomplish this as well.

moonglow
Mar 21st 2007, 12:04 AM
Uh, thanks for the lively correction lol




No one can snatch them away but they can leave of their own accord. Any unforgiveable sin committed would accomplish this as well.



yes I know....but that is off topic...

napsnsnacks
Mar 26th 2007, 08:12 PM
A hundred a forty four thousand people, that's a pretty big ink horn that guy is carrying around.

KnightwithDignity
Mar 26th 2007, 10:06 PM
The mark of God is put on His people by the angels. This would appear to be a mark which we cannot see.

We as christians call upon His name. But not all Christians will receive this mark.

We know this because Jesus himself said that there would be those who called upon his name, did great miracles in his name and power, and to this group whom He rejected... He said, depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.

This is a group who have the appearance of being Christian, are doing christian works and ministry, deliverance, healings, working signs and wonders.

But this group have been deceived by the devil. they have the spirit of the three frogs which goes out to deceive the whole world.

They have been made to believe a lie. These are they who have fallen by from the faith.

These do not have the mark of God.

If they do not have the mark of God, then do they have the mark of the beast?

now there is something to contemplate.

napsnsnacks
Mar 27th 2007, 09:34 AM
The right hand means action, what we do...the forehead means where our thought are...our mind. Its not a physical thing...

It must be a physical mark because it is used, among other things, to determined who has the legal right or not to buy and sell.

If not then the system is wide open to all liars to buy and sell.

Toolapc
Mar 27th 2007, 02:26 PM
[quote=napsnsnacks;1196321]A connection between this mark and the mark of the beast in Revelation? This seems more like a mark of God that preserves instead of damning.

Yes your right all the faithful will receive the seal of God. All the faithful that receive the seal of God in the forhead these people will not be harmed by Gods wrath. these faithful people that have the seal of God these are Gods saints and you will meet the Lord inbody like enoch. These people will proboloy enter the New heaven jerusalem Gods House and the died that rise first rest in the new earth. so pray to God that you and your family will receive the seal of God


The evil people that are mark with 666 these people are in line to receive Gods wrath and there is no escape.

Toolapc
Mar 27th 2007, 02:50 PM
The mark of God is put on His people by the angels. This would appear to be a mark which we cannot see.

We as christians call upon His name. But not all Christians will receive this mark.

We know this because Jesus himself said that there would be those who called upon his name, did great miracles in his name and power, and to this group whom He rejected... He said, depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.

This is a group who have the appearance of being Christian, are doing christian works and ministry, deliverance, healings, working signs and wonders.

But this group have been deceived by the devil. they have the spirit of the three frogs which goes out to deceive the whole world.

They have been made to believe a lie. These are they who have fallen by from the faith.

These do not have the mark of God.

If they do not have the mark of God, then do they have the mark of the beast?

now there is something to contemplate.


your talking about the people that add to the bible and then they teach there false view as truth. the bible worns us to stay away from false prophets that preach peace during the end times. when i watch that tv show stars i always see preachers claiming to be prophets then they preach peace during the end times and they are making alot of money on the end times gimmick.
Will God say to these people i dont no you. you worship God with your tongue but not with your heart:hmm:

Naphal
Mar 27th 2007, 11:10 PM
[quote=napsnsnacks;1196321]
The evil people that are mark with 666 these people are in line to receive Gods wrath and there is no escape.

No one is marked with 666. You are mixing two things together.


Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It says no man can buy or sell unless he has one of three things:

1: the mark
2: the name of the beast
3: the number of his name

number 3 is 666 but 1 and 2 are not. Thus, the mark is not 666 but something else.

napsnsnacks
Mar 28th 2007, 02:48 AM
[quote=napsnsnacks;1196321]A connection between this mark and the mark of the beast in Revelation? This seems more like a mark of God that preserves instead of damning.

Yes your right all the faithful will receive the seal of God. All the faithful that receive the seal of God in the forhead these people will not be harmed by Gods wrath. these faithful people that have the seal of God these are Gods saints and you will meet the Lord inbody like enoch. These people will proboloy enter the New heaven jerusalem Gods House and the died that rise first rest in the new earth. so pray to God that you and your family will receive the seal of God


The evil people that are mark with 666 these people are in line to receive Gods wrath and there is no escape.

The 144,000 is not a worldwide total out of all of humanity that will be saved but these 144,000 are the only Jews out of all the Jews that will be saved at that time.

napsnsnacks
Mar 28th 2007, 02:53 AM
[quote=Toolapc;1206082]

No one is marked with 666. You are mixing two things together.


Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It says no man can buy or sell unless he has one of three things:

1: the mark
2: the name of the beast
3: the number of his name

number 3 is 666 but 1 and 2 are not. Thus, the mark is not 666 but something else.

Have you ever considered that his mark, name and number are three different things instead of three descriptions of the same element of 666?

And I was also years ago looking into the proposition that it isn't 666 since that is a mistranslation and it is 616.

Naphal
Mar 28th 2007, 03:15 AM
[quote=Naphal;1206678]

Have you ever considered that his mark, name and number are three different things instead of three descriptions of the same element of 666?



Yes, that was the point of my post.

napsnsnacks
Mar 28th 2007, 12:32 PM
Yes, that was the point of my post.

Since we cannot be tricked into receiving the mark, name or number, did you know that that completely blows out of the water 100% of things that we as believers already have and possess as such things are proposed as the mark, name or number such as if we already unknowingly got it as hypocrites or we have it innocently now but must stop using it later when we do find out that is what it really is?

In other words we have not the slightest idea YET how this will all take shape.

Naphal
Mar 29th 2007, 06:35 AM
Since we cannot be tricked into receiving the mark, name or number, did you know that that completely blows out of the water 100% of things that we as believers already have and possess as such things are proposed as the mark, name or number such as if we already unknowingly got it as hypocrites or we have it innocently now but must stop using it later when we do find out that is what it really is?

Of course Christians can be tricked into it. Have you never heard of Satan's power of deception? Never heard that he can disguise himself as an angel of light and that he will sit in the temple of God claiming to be God? How is that not equal to tricking the world especially when we are told of a great falling away from the faith? That means a great number of Christians will suddenly stop worshipping Christ. Add all this together and you have the false Christ saying he is returned and TRICKING Christians into worshipping him.

napsnsnacks
Apr 1st 2007, 03:38 AM
Of course Christians can be tricked into it. Have you never heard of Satan's power of deception? Never heard that he can disguise himself as an angel of light and that he will sit in the temple of God claiming to be God? How is that not equal to tricking the world especially when we are told of a great falling away from the faith? That means a great number of Christians will suddenly stop worshipping Christ. Add all this together and you have the false Christ saying he is returned and TRICKING Christians into worshipping him.

Believers cannot be tricked into receiving the mark.

If so then these people are plucked right out of Gods hand and being sealed in Christ means nothing.

There will be no mistaking the mark, name or number of the beast when such comes time to be employed.

It is very Pentecostal/Charismatic to think that Satan can just rip off from God anything he wishes, whenever he wishes, including saved souls.

That puts Satan in power and God at his mercy.

Naphal
Apr 2nd 2007, 12:08 AM
Believers cannot be tricked into receiving the mark.

Believers can be tricked into receiving the mark.


If so then these people are plucked right out of Gods hand and being sealed in Christ means nothing.

They should have been better founded in the Word which warns about the coming deception:


2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Besides it is God that sends the delusion in the first place.




There will be no mistaking the mark, name or number of the beast when such comes time to be employed.

Most will have no idea they have the mark nor will know they worship the false Christ until it's too late.



It is very Pentecostal/Charismatic to think that Satan can just rip off from God anything he wishes, whenever he wishes, including saved souls. That puts Satan in power and God at his mercy.

God allows it. God has warned us of it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Again, it is called Apostasy for a reason.

KnightwithDignity
Apr 2nd 2007, 12:32 AM
Rev 13
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Recieving the mark of the beast, does not necessarily imply that the mark is what is used by the beast to prevent you from buying and selling.

With the implementation of the new rfid technology being put on all goods and products bought and sold, and with these chips going into our cash cards, credit cards and money, the technology is being put into the hands of the government to prevent you from buying or selling.

People are forgetting that when social security numbers first came out... these were to be the mark of the best. Same with bar codes. Now we are saying it about the chip.

There is nothing to say that these are the mark of the beast. There is nothing to say that they are not.

What they are though, is a tool for the government to be able to implement the no buy sell rule.

The mark could be something totaly different. we just dont know.

With regard to my previous question, that group of people who consider themselves christian, who are doing what they consider is the work of Jesus, including signs and wonders. Do they have the mark of the beast or not.

If they have the mark of the beast, are they aware of it. Because as Christians, even of a sort, would they be expected to refuse the mark.

I would value some feed back on this please.

napsnsnacks
Apr 2nd 2007, 12:22 PM
Believers can be tricked into receiving the mark.



They should have been better founded in the Word which warns about the coming deception:


2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Besides it is God that sends the delusion in the first place.





Most will have no idea they have the mark nor will know they worship the false Christ until it's too late.




God allows it. God has warned us of it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Again, it is called Apostasy for a reason.

None of this you speak of applies to sincere believers so therefore sincere believers cannot be tricked into receiving the mark.

Though what you said does have full application to hypocrites, con men, false teachers, wolves in sheeps clothing, et al.

Prophecy and the other deep things of God is the "meat" of the Word of God.

To take what you said for face value, anyone who has turned over their life to Christ and is learning the "milk" but not yet along enough in their growth to study the "meat" will be tricked into receiving the mark.

Oh how powerful Satan is to just tread all over the blood of Christ and rob God of the saints. For good measure maybe he will just grab a few innocent angels too?

If any of these things were true that Satan had the power to pluck so much as one saved soul out of God's hand, Lucifer never would have failed in his original mission to overthrow God.

But YOU personally, YOU won't be tricked. Saying that other sincere believers will be tricked only bolsters your pride. Convincing them that they will be tricked puts them at the mercy of you, your teaching, your following.

Give power to the Devil concerning the things of God and he will eat you alive, both "he's."

I am sick of perverted scripture interpretations that make God the second most powerful entity in existence.

I know this evil personally, I as an observer of it for many years, it is demonic and was institutionalized in the 60's.

This is the same perversion of scripture that says that demons live in Christians or can possess them anytime that they want too.

People speak of the church today but they do it in reference to the scenario that they know goes on on Sundays when this is not the church but an apostate, corporate institution that does not possess the Holy Spirit or the love of Christ because they cannot see past money and material goods and the level of satisfaction that only a Hedonist could appreciate. It is a Western Gospel.

The church is the Body of Christ and these are sincere believers and they will not be tricked into receiving the mark.

Toolapc
Apr 2nd 2007, 01:54 PM
[quote=Toolapc;1206082]

The 144,000 is not a worldwide total out of all of humanity that will be saved but these 144,000 are the only Jews out of all the Jews that will be saved at that time.

why do you think 144,000 is only Jews it seems like your adding in a pre rapture. The bible clearly says that the rapture or what God calls the resurrection happens at the end of trubulation when its all over and those who are still alive will be saved. reread the pre rapture scriptures and you will see that there is no pre rapture and that the rapture happens at the very end or when the 7th trumpet sounds


There is only one resurrection or what man calls the rapture and earth becomes heaven so those who are left behind die because they are mark for Gods wrath.
All the faithful that didnt die are raptured inbody when the resurrection happens and Jesus returns during the sounding of the last trumpet

also 666 repersents all of mankind is the wicked. except for the lampstand or the prophets. When Judgement comes to the world those who receive the seal of GOD will not be harmed by Gods judgement.

Those who are mark with 666 go through Gods wrath and the died rise first. you guys get it:B

Naphal
Apr 2nd 2007, 09:45 PM
None of this you speak of applies to sincere believers so therefore sincere believers cannot be tricked into receiving the mark.

It does apply to sincere but ignorant believers. How many times did Christ say "Have ye not read?"




Oh how powerful Satan is to just tread all over the blood of Christ and rob God of the saints. For good measure maybe he will just grab a few innocent angels too?

No to the above and no to the childish sarcasm.



But YOU personally, YOU won't be tricked. Saying that other sincere believers will be tricked only bolsters your pride. Convincing them that they will be tricked puts them at the mercy of you, your teaching, your following.

I never said I wouldn't be tricked. Assumptions will get a person into a host of problems and bad situations. A lot of Christians will assume they know all there is to know about the mark and the Antichrist and it is they that shall be surprised that they didn't know as much as THEY thought they did.

Litebeam
Apr 3rd 2007, 07:52 AM
The "very few" ( true believers ) are "sealed" with "the seal of God" the "truth" of His Word.

The "rest of humanity" ARE ( already ) DECEIVED by Satan ( "sealed" with Satan's lies...."the mark of the beast" ) and....

WILL...."WORSHIP"....SATAN when he is cast down to earth with the fallen angels and comes CLAIMING TO BE CHRIST.

David Taylor
Apr 3rd 2007, 11:57 AM
The "very few" ( true believers ) are "sealed" with "the seal of God" the "truth" of His Word.

The "rest of humanity" ARE ( already ) DECEIVED by Satan ( "sealed" with Satan's lies...."the mark of the beast" ) and....

WILL...."WORSHIP"....SATAN when he is cast down to earth with the fallen angels and comes CLAIMING TO BE CHRIST.

Aren't non-believers who do not have the seal of God, who are deceived by Satan and his lies, already (instead of "will") worshipping Satan?


"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other"

"He that is not with Me, is against Me"

Litebeam
Apr 4th 2007, 08:39 AM
David Taylor


There is only a "small remnant" who are TRUE believers, who OBEY GOD, HIS WORD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. The rest....( everyone else ) are DECEIVED by our adversary Satan. As stated in the previous post, they are "already deceived" by Satan.




Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Satan deceives....THE...."WHOLE WORLD"....."already"....except for the above mentioned remnant who have heeded the CALL to BE HOLY.



Satan and the fallen angels will be cast down to Earth and will come "claiming to be Christ" and His holy angels.

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Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


NOTICE...we are about to take a BIG step beyond....merely being DECEIVED....





Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



ALL THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH SHALL....."WORSHIP".....HIM....


WORSHIP.....SATAN!!!!!!



It isn't difficult to imagine the "whole world" WORSHIPPING SATAN in the final "end times" delusion, because the WHOLE WORLD is ALREADY DECEIVED by SATAN.


Those who obey the Lord and study "seek Him" with all their heart, mind and soul....the "small remnant" who study His word with all their heart, mind and soul....who BELIEVE GOD'S WORD....OBEY GOD'S WORD....and...."TURN AWAY FROM SIN...will NOT be deceived. THEY are "the ones" whose names are found in the "book of life" of the Lamb


They are the "over comers". They are given eternal life....


Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.



Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



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But the rest of the dead….


Those who DO....NOT...."KNOW THEIR BIBLES"....GOD'S WORD and OBEY GOD'S WORD and COMMANDMENTS are ALREADY DECEIVED and.…“WILL“....WORSHIP....SATAN in the last days.



The...."WHOLE WORLD"...."WILL"...."WORSHIP SATAN"....in the last days...and that includes....the Vast Majority of the "Professing" Religious Christian World who have FAILED to HEED THE CALL.....TO....BE HOLY!



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How do we "know" we are his....?



Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.



Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.



Hereby we do KNOW...that we know Him....WE KNOW!!!



1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


We know....IF....we….KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

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1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



AND THE TRUTH IS...."NOT"....IN HIM.....!




1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


HE THAT COMMITS SIN....IS....OF THE DEVIL


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1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD....DOES...."NOT"....COMMIT.....SIN. ( could it BE any clearer? )



Not what the Vast Majority of the "Professing" Religious Christian World "wants to hear"...is it?



They ( the Vast Majority of the Religious Christian World ) DON'T believe GOD'S WORD.....AT ALL!


Instead, they believe...."Religious Doctrine"...."The Teachings of Men"....and...."SATAN'S LIES"....that ASSURE them....that they can...."KEEP THEIR SINS"....and still have....SPIRITUAL LIFE.




Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

IN VAIN they do worship me ….teaching for doctrines….the COMMANDMENTS of….MEN!!!


We are in “the time” when….


2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


And they ( especially….the Vast Majority of the Religious Christian World…who are….”supposed” to “know better” ) SHALL turn away their ears from THE TRUTH and SHALL BE….TURNED UNTO….FABELS!!!!!


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Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;


SPIRITUAL DEATH!!!!!


They ( the Vast Majority of the Religious Christian World ) FAIL to comprehend that….“their SINS”....S E P E R A T E....them....from GOD!



Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.



They are HEARERS of the WORD OF GOD....THEY ARE..."NOT"....DOERS OF GOD'S WORD.....THEY ARE...."DECEIVED"...."the...."WHOLE WORLD"....IS....D E C E I V E D....by SATAN.


They ( the Vast Majority of the Religious Christian World ) "deceive themselves" in the process....


James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.



There will be "no shortage" of "foolish virgins" who did not have enough oil ( truth ) in their lamps....


2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

napsnsnacks
Apr 6th 2007, 01:46 AM
[quote=napsnsnacks;1206986]

why do you think 144,000 is only Jews it seems like your adding in a pre rapture. The bible clearly says that the rapture or what God calls the resurrection happens at the end of trubulation when its all over and those who are still alive will be saved. reread the pre rapture scriptures and you will see that there is no pre rapture and that the rapture happens at the very end or when the 7th trumpet sounds


There is only one resurrection or what man calls the rapture and earth becomes heaven so those who are left behind die because they are mark for Gods wrath.
All the faithful that didnt die are raptured inbody when the resurrection happens and Jesus returns during the sounding of the last trumpet

also 666 repersents all of mankind is the wicked. except for the lampstand or the prophets. When Judgement comes to the world those who receive the seal of GOD will not be harmed by Gods judgement.

Those who are mark with 666 go through Gods wrath and the died rise first. you guys get it:B

REV 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
REV 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
REV 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
REV 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
REV 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

You are correct, "Jews" are of the tribe first mentioned, the tribe of Judah so it is only 12,000 Jews and not 144,000 Jews.

I don't believe in two raptures, just one, and the pretrib rapture/with that same day the antichrist is in power and makes a 7 year peace agreement, I have discounted as being imminent on any given day such as the idea that the pretrib rapture could happen today is void for several reasons.

One of the many flaws with the pre trib rapture is that the employ "pre" trib but yet simultaneously teach that the rapture is the very day of the beginning of the 7 year tribulation but they do not stop to recognize exactly what needs to be a reality in our world on that day.

#1. Antichrist is currently unknown.

#2. There is currently no one world ruler nor is there a suitable platform for one in existence.

#3. There is no one world religion nor is there a suitable platform for one in existence.

#3. There is no one world economic system nor is there a suitable platform for one in existence.

There is nothing in effect right here right now that would need to be in effect for antichrist to be in power on the day of the rapture when that rapture is proposed to the masses of believers be the day of the beginning of the 7 year tribulation.

No one knoweth the day and time of the rapture and anyone knowledgeable of the scriptures who knows these things must be in place on the day of the rapture can easily say that the rapture will not happen today because of the lack of these things thus disproving a pre trib rapture because if you can prove that the rapture cannot happen today then that voids the pretrib rapture doctrine.

I wrote about this heavily in another topic somewhere.

The scriptures say that no one knows the day or the hour that it WILL happen, not when it WON'T happen.

So there is no rapture today, nor tomorrow, unless one can get all that is needed to be in place on the day of the rapture together in the next 24 hours, no pre rapture, no split rapture, no double rapture, partial rapture, ugh, it gives one brain spasms.

napsnsnacks
Apr 6th 2007, 06:39 AM
There is only 1 plausible scenario for a pre tribulation rapture and that would require an unknown and undisclosed period of time between the rapture and the time that antichrist is on the world scene in order to make a 7 year peace agreement that he breaks 3 1/2 years later.

You can have a pre trib rapture that way because antichrist needs time on the calendar to work his way up through the world to become one world leader and head of a one world religion and chief of a one world economy and those three would require that the nations as we know them today would no longer exist as such.

Once the rapture occurred who knows how much time would pass before all that happened?

100 years? 1,000 years? No way to know.

If none of the above is palatable and at the same time the mainstream church continues to teach that the day of the rapture is the same day that begins the 7 year tribulation then that means one thing: The church would have lived through the collapse of the nations and witnessed from out of all that war and chaos a one world government/religion and economy and they lived to see the day that antichrist made the 7 year peace deal, then suddenly there is the rapture and only under this scenario would it be acceptable that the day of the rapture and the day the antichrist makes the 7 year peace deal could both be the same day.

Otherwise, Christ could come back right this minute under the current teaching but yet there is no antichrist on the scene to make a peace deal or one world religion or one world economy and the nations as they exist this very minute would have no part of any such thing as surrendering their economies and their plethora of religions and national sovereignty. It would mean global war so scenario #1 is no good so it has to be #2 if pre trib is going to be pre trib or else there is no such thing as pre trib.

Anything thing else is just wishful thinking.

I wanted to mention something else also that I find flawed with this pretrib rapture and that is the fact that salvation rests upon believing this doctrine and that is a mistake.

Salvation rests upon the person and work of Jesus and NOT when He is going to return so in effect there is no such thing as only those that believe in the rapture possess salvation. Now if they denied His return entirely then that is another matter because He has to return at some point.

So it is commonly taught that only believers will be taken in the rapture, that's par for the course of the nature of the rapture but if you don't believe in the rapture then you will be left behind and the crux of the doctrine is that only the unsaved will be left behind.

So you see the teaching itself demands belief or you are lost and if you are lost for not believing in the rapture then that teaching itself places salvation upon the rapture with Jesus just off to the side somewhere.

The biggest hook of all is that if a Christian ever second guesses or re-examines or re-assesses or re-considers what they have known and accepted all their lives, the reality of the rapture that is, even the slightest thought of disagreeing with it has flushed their salvation down the toilet because in doing so they have been led to believe that they are walking away from God.

That is a psychological stranglehold and the truth be known, only a sincere believer WOULD BE prayerfully studying the return of Christ regardless of whether they were raised to believe in the rapture or not.

quiet dove
Apr 6th 2007, 03:02 PM
I wanted to mention something else also that I find flawed with this pretrib rapture and that is the fact that salvation rests upon believing this doctrine and that is a mistake


napsnsnacks, I dont know who told you this about pre trib but it is misinformation about pre trib, and if a pre tribber is out there saying this then they are mistaken, but pre tribbers as a whole do not believe salvation rest in this end time view.



So it is commonly taught that only believers will be taken in the rapture, that's par for the course of the nature of the rapture but if you don't believe in the rapture then you will be left behind and the crux of the doctrine is that only the unsaved will be left behind.



Thats right, the unsaved, but that does not equate to salvation coming from believeing in the rapture.


So you see the teaching itself demands belief or you are lost and if you are lost for not believing in the rapture then that teaching itself places salvation upon the rapture with Jesus just off to the side somewhere.


No, just like any other end time view, pre trib demands you believe in Christ to be saved. Are you saying that --amil, post trib, partial preterist to do not require excepting Christ as ones personal Savior in order to be saved just as pre trib requires excepting Christ?



The biggest hook of all is that if a Christian ever second guesses or re-examines or re-assesses or re-considers what they have known and accepted all their lives, the reality of the rapture that is, even the slightest thought of disagreeing with it has flushed their salvation down the toilet because in doing so they have been led to believe that they are walking away from God.

That is a psychological stranglehold and the truth be known, only a sincere believer WOULD BE prayerfully studying the return of Christ regardless of whether they were raised to believe in the rapture or not.


If there is a pre tribber out there saying this then it is that person who is confused, not the whole of pre trib POV. Any end time teacher, irreguardless of the POV can get off on a ranting of mistakes, that one false or mistaken teacher does not represent every one of a particular view, plus the view also.

Your comments are inaccurate reguarding what pre trib, of what valid pre trib teaches.



So you see the teaching itself demands belief or you are lost


I think it is the whole of the Bible that demands belief or you are lost? Does it not? And being lost or saved has nothing to do with ones end time view.



Salvation rests upon the person and work of Jesus and NOT when He is going to return


Agreed

As I said, a valid pre trib teacher would not say any different about salvation and if any teacher teaches any way of salvation other than Christ, that teacher should be walked away from, irreguardless of their end time views.

napsnsnacks
Apr 7th 2007, 04:09 AM
napsnsnacks, I dont know who told you this about pre trib but it is misinformation about pre trib, and if a pre tribber is out there saying this then they are mistaken, but pre tribbers as a whole do not believe salvation rest in this end time view. Your comments are inaccurate reguarding what pre trib, of what valid pre trib teaches.

I do not know where you get your information from but what I said and objected to is the teaching on the rapture by the mainstream Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Pentecostals, Charismatics, blah, blah, all my born days. I know, I have read all their books. Starting in childhood right up till now.

Placing salvation upon believing in the rapture is exactly what this process does as a side effect because it is taught that anyone not believing in the rapture will be left behind and left behind because they are lost souls because only lost souls are left behind in the rapture.

That in itself places salvation upon believing in the rapture. If not then they would not teach such things but would teach that all believers will be raptured whether they believe in the rapture or not.

The pre trib rapture in the context that has been long taught is nothing more than a self comforting fantasy. I even provide a harmless modification for approval or disapproval to the matter to give it some validity which is an unknown space of time between the day of the rapture and the day antichrist makes a 7 year peace deal and they still persist in their delusions that these two things occur on the same day when that is factually impossible.

It is a false security blanket and all because they are blinded from comprehending what must be accomplished by antichrist under their terms of the rapture in one 24 hour period all the while they never suffered any hardship or suffering and remained secure in their Hedonism right up to the day they were taken. There is going to be a nasty wake up call for these people.

There is the difference of night and day between believing or not believing in something reasonable and believing in an outright falsehood and then labeling everyone who does not share that point of view as lost souls.

We are not talking about the Bible as a whole in blanket terms but specific points of doctrine.

quiet dove
Apr 9th 2007, 10:00 PM
napsnsnacks
Placing salvation upon believing in the rapture is exactly what this process does as a side effect because it is taught that anyone not believing in the rapture will be left behind and left behind because they are lost souls because only lost souls are left behind in the rapture.

Believeing that believers will be the only ones raptured does not make salvation through believing in the rapture.


That in itself places salvation upon believing in the rapture. If not then they would not teach such things but would teach that all believers will be raptured whether they believe in the rapture or not.
A believer who believes that the only believers that will be raptured are the ones who believe in the rapture doesnít put salvation in the rapture either. Believing, that belief in the rapture is how one gets saved would put salvation in the rapture.


The pre trib rapture in the context that has been long taught is nothing more than a self comforting fantasy. I even provide a harmless modification for approval or disapproval to the matter to give it some validity which is an unknown space of time between the day of the rapture and the day antichrist makes a 7 year peace deal and they still persist in their delusions that these two things occur on the same day when that is factually impossible.


Just because some people out there believe that this will happen in a 24 hour time frame and will not see it any differently is not a valid reason to reject a pre trib rapture. So what if they teach it and I agree or disagree with that type of time frame. Rapture is a rapture and no rapture is no rapture, the time frame until the AC is secondary and the teaching of the rapture does not hinge on that time frame.




It is a false security blanket and all because they are blinded from comprehending what must be accomplished by antichrist under their terms of the rapture in one 24 hour period all the while they never suffered any hardship or suffering and remained secure in their Hedonism right up to the day they were taken. There is going to be a nasty wake up call for these people.

If you see it as a false security blanket then donít believe it and if what they say it true, that a person must believe it to be taken in it, you wont have to worry either way, you wouldnít be taken.


There is the difference of night and day between believing or not believing in something reasonable and believing in an outright falsehood and then labeling everyone who does not share that point of view as lost souls.


There are people out there within every end time POV who consider those who disagree with them lost souls.



We are not talking about the Bible as a whole in blanket terms but specific points of doctrine.

We both know that only rejection of Christ will leave someone a lost soul, but since there are those who still do not understand that salvation is through Christ alone , by His atoning death upon the cross to pay for our sins, all the more reason to focus on telling them the simple gospel of grace, the gift of God, irreguardless of their end time view, if they have one, or even more so to those who have not heard the truth of the Gospel at all.

Sons of Issachar
Apr 9th 2007, 11:02 PM
I don't know where you get your information from, nap. I'm of the pre-trib belief -- and I could care less if you're amill, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, whatever.

If you're a believer in Christ, that's what matters - and that's everyone's ticket of entrance into the presence of God.

Secondary matters such as eschatological interpretations are just that, secondary and non-factoring. Eschatology is very interpretive... and no one is , or should be, condemning others for seeing a different timeline per scripture.

Pre-trib simply means one believes the rapture will happen BEFORE the Tribulation begins. That's it. There are no clauses about salvation matters.

Where that stuff comes in is from one's own misconstrued perception of a belief, or other people's misinformation.


(Edit) - and for the record, there is nowhere in the very literal definition of a Pre-Trib belief that states it MUST occur the same day the Tribulation begins. The tribulation begins with the covenant signing between the Man of Sin and Israel... it is very possible, and plausible, that there could be an intervention or limbo period of time between the rapture and the signing of the covenant.

It has been a popular *assumption*, that the rapture kick-starts the tribulation... but scripturally this is not so, for it's the covenant signing which impacts the beginning of the tribulation. And I hold to this scenario as very possible, alongside thinking pre-trib is most accurate still.

So see? no problems. It's just assumptions of other views get interjected, which do not really represent those views accurately

Sons of Issachar
Apr 9th 2007, 11:14 PM
A '666' tatooed on your forehead no more makes you a child of Satan than a 'cross' etched on your physical forehead makes you a child of God.

While I agree with this sentiment, I thought it highly ironic in light of the opening post's passage of scripture. And with that segway, I wanted to flesh out my little bit of insight here.



In the Hebrew, the word for 'mark' there in Ezekiel 9 is simply the final letter of the Hebrew alphabet: 'Tau'.

There are other words for 'mark' in Hebrew, so this is not expected.

It's like saying.... 'Set my Z upon the heads of those'.... and the Z gets translated as 'mark'.



I was discussing the original Hebrew forms and shapes of letters in the Shorashim forum (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=73101) the other day... but I wanted to repost these graphs in light of this thread... it shows the original forms of the Hebrew alphabet (22 letters in all) -- and demonstrates what the 'Tau' would have been.. i.e what the 'mark' that was being set on the righteous' heads would have looked like!



http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/JP888/Hebrew/Hebrew%20Letters/AlphabetPictoGraph.gif


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/JP888/Hebrew/Hebrew%20Letters/AlphabetTable7.jpg


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/JP888/Hebrew/Hebrew%20Letters/HebrewAncientBlue.jpg

Sons of Issachar
Apr 9th 2007, 11:17 PM
Look at that! The 'tau' that was being commanded to be set upon the heads of the righteous was the insignia and form, and shape of a cross!

How symbolic, and foreshadowing of our Lord's redeeming work!!

I think it's very cool myself hehe ;)


Very fitting IMHO, that the righteous would be set apart under the Symbol of the Cross!

And perhaps, could be an allusion as to what the seal upon the 144,000 Israelites may resemble?

Sons of Issachar
Apr 9th 2007, 11:52 PM
Another interesting (but slightly off topic) sidenote is if one keeps reading through Ezekiel chapters 10 and 11. It depicts the spirit, and presence of God's glory gradually shifting away from the Temple (the House of the Lord) - to incur judgment and punishment...


(read the chapters in whole for context... God's pronunciation of judgment against a Godless Israel is what is occurring)



Ezekiel depicts the Spirit as picking up camp and gradually moving to the thresh-hold of the Temple entrance, as opposed to the Most Holy Place (10:4)...
Ezekiel then depicts the Spirit of God as picking up camp once again and gradually moving to the Eastern Gate of the Temple courtyard (10:19)...
Finally (11:23), Ezekiel depicts the Spirit of the Lord as shifting camp unto the Mountain which is on the Eastern side of the City of Jerusalem (the Mt. of Olives!!)

After this, Ezekiel's vision transfers.
Some commentary...



(Adam Clarke) --

This vision is no mean proof of the long-suffering of God. He did not abandon this people all at once; he departed by little and little.

First, he left the temple
Secondly, he stopped a little at the gate of the city.
Thirdly, he departed entirely from the city and went to the Mount of Olives, which lay on the east side of the city. Having tarried there for some time to see if they would repent and turn to him -
Fourthly, he departed to heaven.





This is where it gets interesting....

(Albert Barnes) The mountain which is on the east side of the city - The Mount of Olives. The rabbis commenting on this passage said the Shechinah (the Glory of the Lord) retired to this Mount, and there for three years called in vain to the people with human voice that they should repent.



Sound familiar?



a remarkable Rabbinical comment from the Jewish Midrash (in the midrash of Rabbi Jenna ~~ note: a non-believer in Christ Jesus). "The Divine Majesty dwelt three years and a half on the Mount of Olives, to see whether the Jewish people would, or would not, repent, calling, ĎReturn unto Me and I will return unto you:í Ö and then, when all was in vain, returned to its own place." The Shechinah had gone. The glory had departed.


The Savior, too, left the city, and after three and a half years of gracious ministry, it was from the Mount of Olives that He finally departed and ascended to the heavens.



One day the glory will return to the Mount (Zech 14:4). In power and great glory, the rejected Messiah will set His feet upon the Mount which He left so long ago and from the same Olivet will enter the city to reign as the King of Glory (Psalm 24:7-10).





Isn't that amazing? Through oral Jewish tradition we have the fact that the Spirit of God was believed to have 'abode' and cried out to the nation of Israel, calling for her to repent -- for precisely 3.5 years!

Which is what our Lord did, and for the exact same amount of time -- 3.5 years He cried out to Israel to repent! And most of his ministry revolved around, or had integral dealings with said Mount of Olives.

For from it, is where He was crucified (IMHO), and certifiably from it he ascended as well -- just as the Glory of the Lord did ascend away in Ezekiel's day.

quiet dove
Apr 10th 2007, 05:03 AM
Sons of Issachar - very interesting stuff:)

napsnsnacks
Apr 10th 2007, 05:06 AM
Wow, that was very interesting Sons of Issachar.

napsnsnacks
Apr 10th 2007, 05:24 AM
pre-wrath

There's a new one. (Oh there goes my head again. )



(Edit) - and for the record, there is nowhere in the very literal definition of a Pre-Trib belief that states it MUST occur the same day the Tribulation begins. The tribulation begins with the covenant signing between the Man of Sin and Israel... it is very possible, and plausible, that there could be an intervention or limbo period of time between the rapture and the signing of the covenant.

It has been a popular *assumption*, that the rapture kick-starts the tribulation... but scripturally this is not so, for it's the covenant signing which impacts the beginning of the tribulation. And I hold to this scenario as very possible, alongside thinking pre-trib is most accurate still.

Thank you.

napsnsnacks
Apr 10th 2007, 04:29 PM
Look at that! The 'tau' that was being commanded to be set upon the heads of the righteous was the insignia and form, and shape of a cross!

How symbolic, and foreshadowing of our Lord's redeeming work!!

I think it's very cool myself hehe ;)


Very fitting IMHO, that the righteous would be set apart under the Symbol of the Cross!

And perhaps, could be an allusion as to what the seal upon the 144,000 Israelites may resemble?


Have you checked the original tongue of Revelation to see if there is a correspondence between this style and type of mark in Ezekiel 9 and the 144,000 Christian Jews in Revelation?

skc53
Apr 12th 2007, 10:34 AM
Rev 13
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Recieving the mark of the beast, does not necessarily imply that the mark is what is used by the beast to prevent you from buying and selling.

With the implementation of the new rfid technology being put on all goods and products bought and sold, and with these chips going into our cash cards, credit cards and money, the technology is being put into the hands of the government to prevent you from buying or selling.

People are forgetting that when social security numbers first came out... these were to be the mark of the best. Same with bar codes. Now we are saying it about the chip.

There is nothing to say that these are the mark of the beast. There is nothing to say that they are not.

What they are though, is a tool for the government to be able to implement the no buy sell rule.

The mark could be something totaly different. we just dont know.

With regard to my previous question, that group of people who consider themselves christian, who are doing what they consider is the work of Jesus, including signs and wonders. Do they have the mark of the beast or not.

If they have the mark of the beast, are they aware of it. Because as Christians, even of a sort, would they be expected to refuse the mark.

I would value some feed back on this please.


Read Revelation chapter 13.