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A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 03:47 PM
These are just quick examples of animals and the "seven deadly sins".


Lust - Dolphins. Dolphins and man are the only creatures that have sex just because they can, not for reproduction.
Gluttony - Sheep. Sheep eat and eat and eat until their stomach literally explodes.
Greed - Sharks, birds etc. When in the stomach some sharks will kill their brother/sister in order to eliminate any problems for being hungry or not getting enough food, same is true for birds.
Sloth - Sloth. the three toed sloth is a very very lazy creature and does very little with itself.
Wrath - Almost any animal in the world. Will fight for it's territory or over food or just for dominance.
Envy - Lyre bird/parrots. Thee birds will imitate other animals or even inanimate objects in order to seek a mate.
Pride - Animals that fight, have pride. They fight because they want to show the other animals how strong and better they are than the ones they have defeated.

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 03:51 PM
No. Animals do not know the law.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 03:54 PM
No. Animals do not know the law.


That's not a very good reason. There are literally millions of people who have never even been taught or never even heard of God. So does that mean they don't sin cause the don't know any better?

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 04:04 PM
There are literally millions of people who have never even been taught or never even heard of God.

Really? Where?

And so you know, God's law is placed on our hearts and on our minds. You won't find a person who doesn't know that it isn't okay to kill somebody. They can choose to reject this, but they know it just the same.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 04:07 PM
Really? Where?

And so you know, God's law is placed on our hearts and on our minds. You won't find a person who doesn't know that it isn't okay to kill somebody. They can choose to reject this, but they know it just the same.


Are you kidding me? There have got to be tons of people that have never been taught. Africa, asia, South America... Tribes of people living deep in the jungles.

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 04:09 PM
Are you kidding me? There have got to be tons of people that have never been taught. Africa, asia, South America... Tribes of people living deep in the jungles.

That is a common assumption based upon a lack of knowledge. There are Christians all over this world preaching the gospel, and there are Christian missionaries in every "hidden" part of this earth right now preaching the good news to people.

This sort of comment is just a broad generalization that people just assume since they haven't really researched the topic.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 04:11 PM
That is a common assumption based upon a lack of knowledge. There are Christians all over this world preaching the gospel, and there are Christian missionaries in every "hidden" part of this earth right now preaching the good news to people.

This sort of comment is just a broad generalization that people just assume since they haven't really researched the topic.


Ok if there isn't millions if there isn't thousands if there aren't dozens, are you telling me not ONE person in the history of this world wasn't taught about God and his word and they didn't know wrong from right, they just did what they had to survive.

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 04:16 PM
Ok if there isn't millions if there isn't thousands if there aren't dozens, are you telling me not ONE person in the history of this world wasn't taught about God and his word and they didn't know wrong from right, they just did what they had to survive.

Everyone can see God whether they want to admit it or not.



Romans 1:18-21
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


The Word says that everyone can see the attributes of God and the eternal power of the Godhead. In other words, nobody has an excuse, and nobody can say they haven't been taught about God.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 04:18 PM
Everyone can see God whether they want to admit it or not.



The Word says that everyone can see the attributes of God and the eternal power of the Godhead. In other words, nobody has an excuse, and nobody can say they haven't been taught about God.


Hm, well that answers my question, because I wasn't sure what God would do with the people who have never been taught! Thanks buddy

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 04:21 PM
Hm, well that answers my question, because I wasn't sure what God would do with the people who have never been taught! Thanks buddy

No problem at all.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 04:23 PM
No problem at all.


Does this mean animals goto heaven too? :D

VerticalReality
Mar 29th 2007, 05:21 PM
Does this mean animals goto heaven too? :D

I have no idea.:lol:

humbled
Mar 29th 2007, 05:26 PM
These are just quick examples of animals and the "seven deadly sins".


Lust - Dolphins. Dolphins and man are the only creatures that have sex just because they can, not for reproduction.
Gluttony - Sheep. Sheep eat and eat and eat until their stomach literally explodes.
Greed - Sharks, birds etc. When in the stomach some sharks will kill their brother/sister in order to eliminate any problems for being hungry or not getting enough food, same is true for birds.
Sloth - Sloth. the three toed sloth is a very very lazy creature and does very little with itself.
Wrath - Almost any animal in the world. Will fight for it's territory or over food or just for dominance.
Envy - Lyre bird/parrots. Thee birds will imitate other animals or even inanimate objects in order to seek a mate.
Pride - Animals that fight, have pride. They fight because they want to show the other animals how strong and better they are than the ones they have defeated.Animals do not sin because they are not at enmity with God. A sin is breaking God's law intentionally and willfully with hatred for their Creator. Read Romans 8

Grace to you

humbled
Mar 29th 2007, 05:28 PM
Does this mean animals goto heaven too? :DAnimals will most definitely be on the new earth.

It will be a glorified creation, just as in the days of Adam and Eve, only without even the potential for sin :)

corijoysdad
Mar 29th 2007, 05:34 PM
These are just quick examples of animals and the "seven deadly sins".


Lust - Dolphins. Dolphins and man are the only creatures that have sex just because they can, not for reproduction.
Gluttony - Sheep. Sheep eat and eat and eat until their stomach literally explodes.
Greed - Sharks, birds etc. When in the stomach some sharks will kill their brother/sister in order to eliminate any problems for being hungry or not getting enough food, same is true for birds.
Sloth - Sloth. the three toed sloth is a very very lazy creature and does very little with itself.
Wrath - Almost any animal in the world. Will fight for it's territory or over food or just for dominance.
Envy - Lyre bird/parrots. Thee birds will imitate other animals or even inanimate objects in order to seek a mate.
Pride - Animals that fight, have pride. They fight because they want to show the other animals how strong and better they are than the ones they have defeated.

Animals don't sin because, well, they're animals. They do the things you listed not because they choose to be "bad" but because they use the natural instincts God gave them to survive. Animals don't have the capacity to reason and make choices like humans do. It's what seperates us from our pets.

Jesusinmyheart
Mar 29th 2007, 06:27 PM
Hmm i do not know the answer to that, but i have a few thoughts and verses i'd like to throw in for good meassure:

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Are we to spread the gosple to our animals also ?

And another fact God declared certain animals clean and others unclean i'd like to know what He based that on...

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 06:29 PM
Hmm i do not know the answer to that, but i have a few thoughts and verses i'd like to throw in for good meassure:

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Are we to spread the gosple to our animals also ?

I don't believe that animals sin, this was a program on the animal channel I was watching and they said they don't believe animals sin either, but it's just in their nature. I just believe God made everything the way it is for a reason.

Jesusinmyheart
Mar 29th 2007, 06:40 PM
Scottizle i have not stated that animals sin, but i do know that with sin introduced to the world when Adam sinned, everything changed for the animals as well.

How esle would you explan a lion laying with the lamb when all things are restored ? if the Lion no longer eats a lamb, then what does the lion eat ?

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 06:42 PM
Scottizle i have not stated that animals sin, but i do know that with sin introduced to the world when Adam sinned, everything changed for the animals as well.

How esle would you explan a lion laying with the lamb when all things are restored ? if the Lion no longer eats a lamb, then what does the lion eat ?

I'm not saying you said that animals sin. Don't know, tofu burgers? :hmm::rolleyes: I'm silly.

INOLVIDABLE
Mar 29th 2007, 07:10 PM
If Animals Sin.
If They Sin.
Is Our Fault.
Because They Were All Our Pets Before.

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 07:12 PM
If Animals Sin.
If They Sin.
Is Our Fault.
Because They Were All Our Pets Before.


This is true.. :B

lockleyjohn
Mar 29th 2007, 07:41 PM
No animals do not and can not sin because their souls are not alive unto God the Father.God Created (FORMED) man and then breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man become a living soul in the image of God.

This breath of life is what seperates the animal kind from mankind. Because the animal do not have a living soul then he can not sin.


Gen 2:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=2&verse=7&version=kjv#7)And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.






The difference is that God created the Man in His image,


Gen 1:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=26&version=kjv#26)¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

and the animals after there own kind as recorded in Gen.

Gen 1:24 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=24&version=kjv#24)¶and God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=25&version=kjv#25)And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Animals were commanded by God to be fruitful and mulitply.

Gen 1:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=22&version=kjv#22)And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth


You see in Gen 1:26 we can see another difference in creation.

1 God created man to be answerable to Him.

Gen 2:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=2&verse=16&version=kjv#16)And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:Gen 2:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=2&verse=17&version=kjv#17)But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


2 God created animas to be answerable to man.

and let them ( mankind) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

YBIC
John

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 07:47 PM
So you're saying animals don't have souls? They don't goto heaven?

lockleyjohn
Mar 29th 2007, 08:08 PM
NO Scott.


What i am saying is that the animal soul is not alive unto God the Father where as the soul of man is alive unto God the Father. That is the difference. When a man dies if his soul has not been regenerated by the blood of Christ Jesus He goes to hell. The regenerated soul of man goes to be with God the Father there he or she waits for His heavenly body where they are reunited.

No where in the Word of God does it say that the soul of the animal goes anywhere. Christ Jesus did not die for the animal kingdom but for mankind. But let me say here that the animal kingdom is waiting to be set free once again as it was before man sinned. It was man that sin not the anmial. The whole of creation is to be set free once again when God brings forth His kingdom that is soon to be reveal in the physcial.

Jesus has not commanded us to preach the Gosple to the animal kingdom but unto mankind.

Rom 8:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=8&verse=19&version=kjv#19)For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.Rom 8:20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=8&verse=20&version=kjv#20)For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,Rom 8:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=8&verse=21&version=kjv#21)Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.Rom 8:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=8&verse=22&version=kjv#22)For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.




YBIC
John

A820djd
Mar 29th 2007, 08:14 PM
Whew I was scared for a second, thanks for that little bit of knowledge I can now share with people, haha.

Steve M
Mar 30th 2007, 12:01 AM
Hmm i do not know the answer to that, but i have a few thoughts and verses i'd like to throw in for good meassure:

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Are we to spread the gosple to our animals also ?

And another fact God declared certain animals clean and others unclean i'd like to know what He based that on...
It's generally understood that the unclean animals are not good for eating; most of them carry disease, or else if they are undercooked there's a greater risk from them. Those animals God proclaimed clean are still understood to be the healthiest meats to eat.

Some say there's more to it than that, to, some moral lessons hidden amongst it. You'd have to ask them about that.

dirtball
Mar 30th 2007, 01:09 AM
I do not think that animals can sin. I think this beacuse they are doing what God has programed them to do. I don't think they (wild animals) have a free will and they can't be taught anything different.

Navaros
Mar 30th 2007, 04:24 AM
I do not know whether or not animals sin, but I do know they have souls and go to Heaven.

This is why the Bible says God sees even the sparrow fall. It shows that God cares about animals, and takes care of their souls when they die.

flybaby
Mar 30th 2007, 05:40 AM
I've always found it interesting that it seems the animals in the Bible obeyed God better than some people. Think of the ravens that brought food to Elisha. Or the donkey that God commanded to talk. These animals obeyed God without questioning.

A820djd
Mar 30th 2007, 04:09 PM
I've always found it interesting that it seems the animals in the Bible obeyed God better than some people. Think of the ravens that brought food to Elisha. Or the donkey that God commanded to talk. These animals obeyed God without questioning.


Well since it's GOD I was assume anyone or anything would obey him more than a human with a pet... =\

dirtball
Mar 30th 2007, 04:12 PM
I've always found it interesting that it seems the animals in the Bible obeyed God better than some people. Think of the ravens that brought food to Elisha. Or the donkey that God commanded to talk. These animals obeyed God without questioning.


Could it have been god talking through the animals?

chisel
Mar 30th 2007, 05:47 PM
I don't believe animals can sin, because they have no comprehension of right and wrong. They don't have free will to choose right from wrong. They act purely on the instincts that God programmed into each of them.

Can a lion or a grizzly be guilty of murder for mauling a person?
Can a kangaroo be guilty of assault for punching a person in face?
Can a monkey be guilty of theft for grabbing your packet of fries?
Can a shark be guilty of attempted manslaughter for attacking a surfer?

I read a book on dogs, when we got two puppies, and the author mentioned something interesting about dogs looking guilty when they've done something wrong and that many people think that the dog has an understanding of what it did, but according to the author this isn't the case. Dogs are very intuitive and they sense that you're upset, by the way you look at them and the way you move, and that causes them to react with those guilty looking little faces. They really don't know what's going on. That's why they say it's pointless yelling at the dog or rolling up the old newspaper, unless you catch them in the act. If it's 5 minutes later, they have no idea why you're upset with them.

Some completely off the topic info. I'm starting to sound like grandpa...

Paul_born_again
Mar 30th 2007, 07:18 PM
I don't think they have the capability to sin either.
When everyone got off the ark, God allowed them to eat meat (before the Flood, everyone (including all animals) were vegetarian).
At this point, animals instincts took over (I am assuming) - their instincts include the ability to procreate, hunt, kill, consume, protect themselves and their kin, etc. As far as I can tell, they do not have the ability to understand the concept of sin.

Point-man
Oct 21st 2017, 09:13 PM
These are just quick examples of animals and the "seven deadly sins".


Lust - Dolphins. Dolphins and man are the only creatures that have sex just because they can, not for reproduction.
Gluttony - Sheep. Sheep eat and eat and eat until their stomach literally explodes.
Greed - Sharks, birds etc. When in the stomach some sharks will kill their brother/sister in order to eliminate any problems for being hungry or not getting enough food, same is true for birds.
Sloth - Sloth. the three toed sloth is a very very lazy creature and does very little with itself.
Wrath - Almost any animal in the world. Will fight for it's territory or over food or just for dominance.
Envy - Lyre bird/parrots. Thee birds will imitate other animals or even inanimate objects in order to seek a mate.
Pride - Animals that fight, have pride. They fight because they want to show the other animals how strong and better they are than the ones they have defeated.

Animals have no soul so there is no worry there

Aristarkos
Oct 21st 2017, 09:27 PM
Animals have no soul so there is no worry there

Neither do we, according to Scripture we are souls, Adam became a living soul:

Gen 2:7 « And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Hebrew: nephesh). »

Animals are souls as well:

Gen 1:21 « And God created great whales, and every living creature (Hebrew: nephesh = soul) that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. »

Aristarkos

ewq1938
Oct 21st 2017, 10:05 PM
These are just quick examples of animals and the "seven deadly sins".


Lust - Dolphins. Dolphins and man are the only creatures that have sex just because they can, not for reproduction.
Gluttony - Sheep. Sheep eat and eat and eat until their stomach literally explodes.
Greed - Sharks, birds etc. When in the stomach some sharks will kill their brother/sister in order to eliminate any problems for being hungry or not getting enough food, same is true for birds.
Sloth - Sloth. the three toed sloth is a very very lazy creature and does very little with itself.
Wrath - Almost any animal in the world. Will fight for it's territory or over food or just for dominance.
Envy - Lyre bird/parrots. Thee birds will imitate other animals or even inanimate objects in order to seek a mate.
Pride - Animals that fight, have pride. They fight because they want to show the other animals how strong and better they are than the ones they have defeated.

You haven't provided a single scripture that says any of those things are sins for animals. Where is a single law or scripture saying animals have sin?

ewq1938
Oct 21st 2017, 10:08 PM
Neither do we, according to Scripture we are souls


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Man had a body, a soul and a spirit. Man being a soul is a completely diferrent thing than the actual soul within us.


We also have souls and so do animals:

Both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.



Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [soul] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh


Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature [soul] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.


living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh


Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


living= 02416 chay
soul= 05315 nephesh


Both man and animals have a "living soul" according to God.


Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Man has the "breath of life".


Genesis 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.


Animals also have the breath of life.


1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.


Man and animals have different flesh, but both have a living soul and the breath of life.


Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!


(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.


Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!


07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}

from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f


AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378


1) wind, breath, mind, spirit


Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!


Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.


So, according to God both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.