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Faith44
Apr 11th 2007, 08:47 PM
I trust in God, I have my faith in Christ but I have trouble believing everything in the Bible. For instance, a problem in Genesis was brought to my attention by a friend who is currently reading the Bible for the 3rd time.

God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

Here are some possible explanations I have come up with. I don't necessarily believe these either, but they would fix things.

1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?

VerticalReality
Apr 11th 2007, 09:03 PM
Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs.

Job 40:15-19
“Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.

See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.
He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 11th 2007, 09:11 PM
I suppose the answer depends on what your foundation of truth is. If you take evolutionary science to be true and try to see if the Bible conforms to that, I'm afraid you might run into some trouble.

I am moving this over to Apologetics and Evangelism, where I feel you might get more of the kind of response relevant to your post.

Faith44
Apr 11th 2007, 09:22 PM
Job 40:15-19
“Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.

See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.
He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.

That could easily describe an elephant though. But I must say, the line "He is the first of the ways of God;" helps out a lot!

So what are your thoughts on scientific studies stating that dinosaurs were here 229,800,000 years before man?

VerticalReality
Apr 11th 2007, 09:23 PM
That could easily describe an elephant though. But I must say, the line "He is the first of the ways of God;" helps out a lot!

So what are your thoughts on scientific studies stating that dinosaurs were here 229,800,000 years before man?

Does an elephant have a tail that moves like a cedar tree?

As for the studies, I simply say they are wrong.

Faith44
Apr 11th 2007, 09:27 PM
I suppose the answer depends on what your foundation of truth is. If you take evolutionary science to be true and try to see if the Bible conforms to that, I'm afraid you might run into some trouble.

I am moving this over to Apologetics and Evangelism, where I feel you might get more of the kind of response relevant to your post.

First I apologize for posting in the wrong forum. Second, I am not sure what my thoughts on evolution are. To me it makes the most sense, but it doesn't necesarily discredit the Bible. I feel like science is God's toolbox. We've discovered that things on Earth don't just work and that's the end of it. God has created very specific logic behind how things work. It's genius really! I think God could have created us to evolve. I'll keep reading to back up those thoughts though. :D

Lighthope
Apr 11th 2007, 10:26 PM
I trust in God, I have my faith in Christ but I have trouble believing everything in the Bible. For instance, a problem in Genesis was brought to my attention by a friend who is currently reading the Bible for the 3rd time.

God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

The problem is that the premise is in error, therefore the conclusion in invalid.

(Whew. What a technical mouthful.)

The mainstream scientific community does indeed set the date for dinosaurs at 230 million years, give to take a week or two. However, that calculation is based on two erroneous dating methods.

The first error is that the lower (deeper) the fossil is found, the older it is. The problem with this is that "older" fossils have been found on top of "younger" fossils.

The second error is in carbon dating methods. At this time, the accuracy of carbon dating is in doubt. While it is good for a certain slice of time, there is question as to dating when we start talking about millions of years.

For a more thorough look at dinosaurs, fossils, dating, etc, you can check out a site called Answers in Genesis at http://www.answersingenesis.com/

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - Most people will do anything they have to in order to lose weight, except eat right and exercise regularly.

dworthington
Apr 11th 2007, 11:15 PM
That could easily describe an elephant though. But I must say, the line "He is the first of the ways of God;" helps out a lot!

So what are your thoughts on scientific studies stating that dinosaurs were here 229,800,000 years before man?

An elephant does not have a tail like a great cedar.

dworthington
Apr 11th 2007, 11:18 PM
Reptiles continue to grow as long as they live. Can you imagine an alligator that is 500 years old?

punk
Apr 12th 2007, 12:07 AM
Reptiles continue to grow as long as they live. Can you imagine an alligator that is 500 years old?

There are very good reasons for believing that dinosaurs were warm-blooded, and hence not reptiles (those being cold-blooded).

th1bill
Apr 12th 2007, 12:41 AM
I trust in God, I have my faith in Christ but I have trouble believing everything in the Bible. For instance, a problem in Genesis was brought to my attention by a friend who is currently reading the Bible for the 3rd time.

God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

Here are some possible explanations I have come up with. I don't necessarily believe these either, but they would fix things.

1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?
To begin at the point you have assumed one must believe that Cro-Magnon Man, us, is decended from the Neanderthal. Since DNA has shown there is no connection between the two that is not possible.
Point A...that leaves the Chimpanzee, with it's better than 3 million differences, as a better candidate for decendency, and of course the Chimp would, in it's present form need to extend back to a time period well beyond the advent of man.
Point B...to assume that the Genesis account you must either assume that God is a liar, that He is so small that though He can speak the universe into existance but lacks the power to keep the record of the events He propagated by Himself pure or that He does not and never did exist.

Now for pure logic and observation for your problem with dinosaurs... Have you never examined the life cycle of the lizards? There was no death in the beginning, not just Adam and his offspring, every creature lived without the fear of death. A lizard, baby and very young dinosaur, does not cease to grow until death. A nine hundred year old lizard would be a big boy.

Please meditate, study and have faith! Without faith you will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven!

threebigrocks
Apr 12th 2007, 12:54 AM
I trust in God, I have my faith in Christ but I have trouble believing everything in the Bible. For instance, a problem in Genesis was brought to my attention by a friend who is currently reading the Bible for the 3rd time.

God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

Here are some possible explanations I have come up with. I don't necessarily believe these either, but they would fix things.

1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?

Let me ask you this.

Is there anything else that you have found to be contradictory in scripture? Anything at all?

Faith44
Apr 12th 2007, 12:57 AM
Point B...to assume that the Genesis account you must either assume that God is a liar, that He is so small that though He can speak the universe into existance but lacks the power to keep the record of the events He propagated by Himself pure or that He does not and never did exist.

Please meditate, study and have faith! Without faith you will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven!


Points well taken. Believe me I have faith. I am simply trying to understand. All that I am doing is bringing up something that does not make sense to me and seeking the answer to it. By no means did I disregard anything in Genesis. You will even notice that I listed 4 possible scenarios that would salvage what I do not understand. I think that shows that I am trying to be enlightened and not simply trying to tare down things the Book has to say.

I never called God a liar or claimed He does not exist. I simply called upon fellow Christiants to help me understand.

Lighthope
Apr 12th 2007, 01:16 AM
A lizard, baby and very young dinosaur, does not cease to grow until death. A nine hundred year old lizard would be a big boy.

Is this true?

Also, there is a flaw in your theory. It presumes that sin and death did not enter into the picture until Creation+900 years. We do not know how long Adam lived before he sinned.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes." - The Democratic Party...uh, I mean Josef Stalin. Same difference.

Faith44
Apr 12th 2007, 01:16 AM
Let me ask you this.

Is there anything else that you have found to be contradictory in scripture? Anything at all?

The only thing that I can think of at the moment was that the creation of Cain's wife was never mentioned. I didn't read anything saying that God created her or if she was the off-spring of Adam and Eve. However, some people on the forum pointed out that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve so now I understand that one.

Other than that no. I know I already posted about this a second ago, but I want to make it clear that I am not trying to discredit the Bible. I simply do not understand certain things and I am looking for help. I appreciate everyone's input. :D

Faith44
Apr 12th 2007, 01:21 AM
Is this true?

Also, there is a flaw in your theory. It presumes that sin and death did not enter into the picture until Creation+900 years. We do not know how long Adam lived before he sinned.


Lighthope, thank you. See this is what I am talking about. There's some information we did not know so perhaps there is an explaination that helps create an understanding.

Same thing with the cedar tail that others commented on. For some reason I read past that description and I realize, that it does describe something dinosaur like. Points well taken and this helps me believe the story.

threebigrocks
Apr 12th 2007, 01:51 AM
The only thing that I can think of at the moment was that the creation of Cain's wife was never mentioned. I didn't read anything saying that God created her or if she was the off-spring of Adam and Eve. However, some people on the forum pointed out that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve so now I understand that one.

Other than that no. I know I already posted about this a second ago, but I want to make it clear that I am not trying to discredit the Bible. I simply do not understand certain things and I am looking for help. I appreciate everyone's input. :D

I am glad that you are looking to learn, that's what we are about.

Bear with me here. :)

How did you settle the issue of where Cain's wife came from? What gave you peace with the understanding you have?

Faith44
Apr 12th 2007, 03:33 AM
I am glad that you are looking to learn, that's what we are about.

Bear with me here. :)

How did you settle the issue of where Cain's wife came from? What gave you peace with the understanding you have?


Well to be honest, I am not sure what I think about that. I believe either one of these two happened, either God created a few more people or she is the daughter of Adam and Eve. I have heard countless Christians talk about how we are all decendants from Adam and Eve, so that is what I am leaning towards. In all honesty, I cannot say that I have read anything thus far that says that though. But if God had created another person, I think it would have been a huge deal and it would have been mentioned, so I think everyone decending from Adam and Eve works out the best.

I appreciate your understanding threebigrocks. Unfortunetly, I come off as a heretic to a lot of people. This is how I look at my situation though. I am not denying anything that The Bible says. However, I feel strange saying it is all true when I have not read the entire thing. Does that make sense?

I don't want to say, "I don't get it, but I have to believe it, so I'll just skip it and tell myself its right." I want to have an explanation to support my belief as well. I don't think I am committing blasphemy when I question the Scriptures. I honestly feel that I am just exploring my faith.

Sold Out
Apr 12th 2007, 12:49 PM
Have you ever heard of the 'Gap Theory'? Here is an excerpt from the Strand Study Bible:



Gap Between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2







“In the beginning God (Heb.-ELOHIM) created the heaven and the earth.” Genesis 1:1

1:1c The creation story in Genesis makes use of two contrasting words that are often confused in the English translation of the Bible, the English words, “create” (vs 1) and “made” (vs 7). Whereas the word “created” in verse one is the Hebrew word “bara” and means “the instant, miraculous creation of something which had no previous existence in any form whatsoever” (See - Heb 11:3), the word “made” in verse seven is the word “asah” and means “to allow or to assemble.” Point being: A carpenter can “make” a chair out of wood, but he is quite unable to “create” the wood itself. Because the two words are dissimilar and mean different things, it is the opinion of this author that verse one and the “work of original creation” is not to be confused with verse seven and the “work of the First Week,” which starts with verse three (See footnote on Gen 1:2c). Therefore, the first four days of Genesis (verses 2-19) are not records of creation, but records of reassembly (i.e., the releasing from restraint of certain materials that were once under bondage).

“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.” Genesis 1:2


1:2a This word (And) is also translated “but” or “moreover.” Thus in the Septuagint the text begins: “But the earth had become ruined and uninhabited.” Meaning, verse two carries a tremendous suggestion of collapse and thus reassembly (See footnote on Gen 1:28).

1:2b Seeing the Hebrew language lacks a word for “became,” the word “was” is always used to carry out the sense of “became.” “But the earth became without form…” As to how long an interval passed before the earth “became” a ruin, we have no means of knowing; but all that took place from Genesis 1:3 onwards transpired less than six thousand years ago.

1:2c According to Isaiah 45:18, the first earth (vs 1) wasnot created “without form.” Originally, it was created a perfect world, inhabited by angelic beings (See footnote on Ezk 28:12-15). Then SATAN and certain angels rebelled (See footnote on Isa 14:12-14). As a result, this earth experienced an upheaval and became without form (vs 2). It then had to be remade. After a thorough examination of all the evidences, it is the opinion of this author that there is an unsettled period of time between verses 1 and 2 called a “gap.” Secular historians tend to agree. THE COLUMBIA HISTORY OF THE WORLD (p. 24) states,

“There has always been evidence, literally at man’s feet, suggesting that the earth of yesterday was indeed different from the earth of today.”

The vast ages of the geologic timetable are thought to have occurred during this interval, so that the fossils, plants and animals that are found in the crust of the earth today are relics of the originally perfect world that was destroyed before the six literal days of creation.
Now unlike secular historians who add evolution to their “gap” (COLUMBIA - p. 25), God’s “gap” does not allow for humanistic evolution or even theistic evolution (i.e., the belief that God used evolution after His creation). The reason theistic evolution is such a contradiction is because it is one thing to believe in evolution, quite another to blame God for it…
Now to be sure, amongst biblical intellectuals there are debatable arguments on both sides of the “gap.” However, most of the controversy centers on the translation and grammatical import of Genesis 1:1. Scholars argue, “Is Genesis 1:1 in the absolute state (i.e., an independent clause) or in the construct state (i.e., a dependent clause)?” Even Hebrew scholars are unable to agree.

threebigrocks
Apr 12th 2007, 01:23 PM
But if God had created another person, I think it would have been a huge deal and it would have been mentioned, so I think everyone decending from Adam and Eve works out the best.

Right there is what I was getting at! You used what you knew as truth, revealing the character of God, to accept that God only created two people, Adam and Eve. The details there are enough to reason through faith in that truth that He did not create a third for there would be mention of it. And, we can indeed deduct that we are all indeed descendants of Adam when we look at the linage given us in Matthew and in Genesis (where their ages are included many times) and other places in the Old Testiment.



I appreciate your understanding threebigrocks. Unfortunetly, I come off as a heretic to a lot of people. This is how I look at my situation though. I am not denying anything that The Bible says. However, I feel strange saying it is all true when I have not read the entire thing. Does that make sense?

I don't want to say, "I don't get it, but I have to believe it, so I'll just skip it and tell myself its right." I want to have an explanation to support my belief as well. I don't think I am committing blasphemy when I question the Scriptures. I honestly feel that I am just exploring my faith.



And when we question my friend is when we dig for answers, and that will only draw us deeper into the Word. Just as you were to come to a conclusion with Cain's wife, other things will also come into focus over time. Granted yes, some things will be immediately clear, and others we may never know this side of heaven.

Right now, I certainly don't have all the answers. But, I will look at scripture as a whole and know that it isn't going to lie nor contradict itself. I take it all in faith and time and time again it's proven itself. It's never been wrong. Sure, things I've come to understand I didn't like much, but that's my problem. ;)


Now, your original questions.

Can we agree that science and it's ideas about things are mainly theories when it comes to the age of the earth? Can we say that some are even fairly credible? Sure. But, can we be as certain as we are with our faith that it is truth? No.

Science and our faith compliment each other, but they are not compatable. All around us is God's creation. From our body systems to fossils, it's God's handiwork. It exists, and that is that. What is in our world, exists. Can't disagree or I'd be locked up! :D But to use one to prove or disprove the other is an impossibility.

I hold to a literal 6 day creation for all things because that is what it says. Nothing else in scripture contradicts that, actually it is confirmed more than once. Just as you can discern that God did not create Cain's wife by having faith in scripture, because that is what it says. The Word does not contradict.

Luke34
Apr 12th 2007, 03:11 PM
1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?
I would have to go with 5. Accept the Genesis stories as allegory and also accept the conclusions of science.

threebigrocks
Apr 12th 2007, 03:56 PM
Allegory:

1.a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another. 2.a symbolical narrative: the allegory of Piers Plowman


We have the parable, or symbolic story, of many many things in scripture. The wheat and the tares, 10 brides and the oil in the lamps, vine and the braches narrative, and we could go on for some time.

Show me how the story of creation in Genesis is allogorical. What else could God have meant? And, at which verse does it stop and start? Christ was always consistent when using allegory, and never jumped from one to the other in the middle. He would lay it out and then sometimes explain it. And, it was using things of this world to relate ideas to people. But, this was the very story that told of the beginning of the world.



1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


I believe in science. I love the study of science. If I 'could do it all over again', I'd go into medical science. It's an incredible thing! I can see God in all those things. But, to try and mash faith and science together and make them sing in harmony is like trying to make a cucumber an apple, or a Ford a Buick.

Prinkster
Apr 12th 2007, 04:27 PM
I don't think the whole "Genesis is just an allegory" story works here. In Romans (I believe), Paul calls on the story of Adam and Eve to justify our need for Jesus Christ.


12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That's from Romans, Chapter 12.

VerticalReality
Apr 12th 2007, 05:16 PM
It's obvious if you study the Scripures that the early church did not view the creation account in Genesis as allegorical. The apostles didn't teach it as allegorical, and we shouldn't teach it as allegorical either.

All it takes is a little faith. You can either be more in tune with what the science of man thinks or you can be in tune with what the Word of God says. Which is infallible?

Studyin'2Show
Apr 12th 2007, 09:12 PM
I believe the real, observable, testable science reinforces what the word of God says! There is no conflict. It's only when you get into unproven, untestable, unobservable theories that there is even an issue.

God Bless!

th1bill
Apr 12th 2007, 09:29 PM
Points well taken. Believe me I have faith. I am simply trying to understand. All that I am doing is bringing up something that does not make sense to me and seeking the answer to it. By no means did I disregard anything in Genesis. You will even notice that I listed 4 possible scenarios that would salvage what I do not understand. I think that shows that I am trying to be enlightened and not simply trying to tare down things the Book has to say.

I never called God a liar or claimed He does not exist. I simply called upon fellow Christiants to help me understand.
I suffer from hoof in mouth desease! My points were for you use in your discussion and I apologize for for not clearly stating that, I'm sorry.

th1bill
Apr 12th 2007, 09:40 PM
[quote=Lighthope;1224644]Is this true?

Also, there is a flaw in your theory. It presumes that sin and death did not enter into the picture until Creation+900 years. We do not know how long Adam lived before he sinned.

Lighthope[quote]
I'm very sorry but that is not correct! There is, literally, no assumption in my statement! Scripture states the length of time that Adam and a few others from the period lived and says nothing of the length of the life of the lizards. What it does say is that death did not enter into the garden until Adam sinned and then death became a concern for all, lizards included.

Then there is the random idea that I spoke of a theory, that is false also! I have the assurance of God's own word and the circumstantial evidence of both the ancient and the modern scientist in their total failure to disprove even one statement in scripture as well as their admission that they fail, completely, to link the human being to any other creature in this world that they theorize lived more than six thousand years ago.

Thank you for your input but I'll stand right here on the time tested and time proven Word of God!

th1bill
Apr 12th 2007, 09:48 PM
Have you ever heard of the 'Gap Theory'? Here is an excerpt from the Strand Study Bible:



Gap Between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2




“In the beginning God (Heb.-ELOHIM) created the heaven and the earth.” Genesis 1:1



1:1c The creation story in Genesis makes use of two contrasting words that are often confused in the English translation of the Bible, the English words, “create” (vs 1) and “made” (vs 7). Whereas the word “created” in verse one is the Hebrew word “bara” and means “the instant, miraculous creation of something which had no previous existence in any form whatsoever” (See - Heb 11:3), the word “made” in verse seven is the word “asah” and means “to allow or to assemble.” Point being: A carpenter can “make” a chair out of wood, but he is quite unable to “create” the wood itself. Because the two words are dissimilar and mean different things, it is the opinion of this author that verse one and the “work of original creation” is not to be confused with verse seven and the “work of the First Week,” which starts with verse three (See footnote on Gen 1:2c). Therefore, the first four days of Genesis (verses 2-19) are not records of creation, but records of reassembly (i.e., the releasing from restraint of certain materials that were once under bondage).

“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.” Genesis 1:2


1:2a This word (And) is also translated “but” or “moreover.” Thus in the Septuagint the text begins: “But the earth had become ruined and uninhabited.” Meaning, verse two carries a tremendous suggestion of collapse and thus reassembly (See footnote on Gen 1:28).

1:2b Seeing the Hebrew language lacks a word for “became,” the word “was” is always used to carry out the sense of “became.” “But the earth became without form…” As to how long an interval passed before the earth “became” a ruin, we have no means of knowing; but all that took place from Genesis 1:3 onwards transpired less than six thousand years ago.

1:2c According to Isaiah 45:18, the first earth (vs 1) wasnot created “without form.” Originally, it was created a perfect world, inhabited by angelic beings (See footnote on Ezk 28:12-15). Then SATAN and certain angels rebelled (See footnote on Isa 14:12-14). As a result, this earth experienced an upheaval and became without form (vs 2). It then had to be remade. After a thorough examination of all the evidences, it is the opinion of this author that there is an unsettled period of time between verses 1 and 2 called a “gap.” Secular historians tend to agree. THE COLUMBIA HISTORY OF THE WORLD (p. 24) states,

“There has always been evidence, literally at man’s feet, suggesting that the earth of yesterday was indeed different from the earth of today.”

The vast ages of the geologic timetable are thought to have occurred during this interval, so that the fossils, plants and animals that are found in the crust of the earth today are relics of the originally perfect world that was destroyed before the six literal days of creation.
Now unlike secular historians who add evolution to their “gap” (COLUMBIA - p. 25), God’s “gap” does not allow for humanistic evolution or even theistic evolution (i.e., the belief that God used evolution after His creation). The reason theistic evolution is such a contradiction is because it is one thing to believe in evolution, quite another to blame God for it…
Now to be sure, amongst biblical intellectuals there are debatable arguments on both sides of the “gap.” However, most of the controversy centers on the translation and grammatical import of Genesis 1:1. Scholars argue, “Is Genesis 1:1 in the absolute state (i.e., an independent clause) or in the construct state (i.e., a dependent clause)?” Even Hebrew scholars are unable to agree.
Please, do not fall into the Gap Theory. It's very name sqys it all, someone or some people sat around until he, she or they formulated this "theory." You will never please God without faith and the Gap Theory just attempts to make factual a point that God has left for us to take on faith, the faith He requires, or to stumble over for the less than faithful.

th1bill
Apr 12th 2007, 09:52 PM
Allegory:

1.a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another. 2.a symbolical narrative: the allegory of Piers Plowman


We have the parable, or symbolic story, of many many things in scripture. The wheat and the tares, 10 brides and the oil in the lamps, vine and the braches narrative, and we could go on for some time.

Show me how the story of creation in Genesis is allogorical. What else could God have meant? And, at which verse does it stop and start? Christ was always consistent when using allegory, and never jumped from one to the other in the middle. He would lay it out and then sometimes explain it. And, it was using things of this world to relate ideas to people. But, this was the very story that told of the beginning of the world.



I believe in science. I love the study of science. If I 'could do it all over again', I'd go into medical science. It's an incredible thing! I can see God in all those things. But, to try and mash faith and science together and make them sing in harmony is like trying to make a cucumber an apple, or a Ford a Buick.
YOU! I am absolutely certain will sit at the table as we dine in Heaven on the very Word of God. Stand firm!

IamRyan
Apr 12th 2007, 11:14 PM
To all who asked about Cain's wife
5:3. And Adam (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/cathen/01129a.htm) lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness, and called his name (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/cathen/10675a.htm) Seth.

5:4. And the days of Adam (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/cathen/01129a.htm), after he begot Seth, were eight hundred years: and he begot sons and daughters.

It never says if Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's first, second, or last set of kids. The other kids who Adam had during his 930 years of life could have happened at anytime, and I think that this is what happened.

Faith44
Apr 12th 2007, 11:30 PM
I suffer from hoof in mouth desease! My points were for you use in your discussion and I apologize for for not clearly stating that, I'm sorry.


Not to worry. I have been reading what you are saying and taking it in. You are a good man and indeed your faith is quite strong!

SLJ1962
Apr 13th 2007, 02:20 AM
Maybe pre-Adamic man? I have no idea how much merit the theory has but I have read about a pre-adamic theory. It has to do with 2 verses - Gen 1:1-2 I believe:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The theory goes something like this: How much time was there between verses 1 and 2. Had God created other life before and wiped it all out?

threebigrocks
Apr 13th 2007, 02:25 AM
Maybe pre-Adamic man? I have no idea how much merit the theory has but I have read about a pre-adamic theory. It has to do with 2 verses - Gen 1:1-2 I believe:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The theory goes something like this: How much time was there between verses 1 and 2. Had God created other life before and wiped it all out?

That would be the "gap theory", as shared above. :)

jgarden
Apr 16th 2007, 04:46 PM
The Pharisees knew and obeyed every commandment to the letter and yet they could not recognize the Messiah.

The Rich Young Ruler obeyed all the commandments and yet he went away without receiving Christ

The Thief on the Cross who had broken the commandments received salvation.

The question is not whether each word in the Bible is divinely inspired - the question is whether you can find God through the Bible.http://bibleforums.org/images/icons/banghead.gif

Faith44
Apr 16th 2007, 08:00 PM
The Pharisees knew and obeyed every commandment to the letter and yet they could not recognize the Messiah.

The Rich Young Ruler obeyed all the commandments and yet he went away without receiving Christ

The Thief on the Cross who had broken the commandments received salvation.

The question is not whether each word in the Bible is divinely inspired - the question is whether you can find God through the Bible.http://bibleforums.org/images/icons/banghead.gif

I am...
Finding God with every word I read. Seeking deeper with everything I do not understand. Asking questions to be enlightened.

I appreciate your words.

Beloved by God
Apr 17th 2007, 01:37 AM
I posted these verses for someone else tonight, maybe they will help you too?

2 Peter 1: 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

teshuva
Apr 28th 2007, 11:43 AM
For EVERY answer, you need to go to:

answersingenesis.org

It's a great study and answers any question you could come up with by qualified Bible believing, Christian scientists, archeologists, etc., etc.
Great website. By the time you finish their materials you'll be an expert and can refute any question of evolution and rest in the truth of God's Word!

You can also watch lectures from their Museum in Kentucky if you have Sky Angel Christian Satellite TV.

Parax
Apr 28th 2007, 12:25 PM
Has anyone done the obvious time/space theory yet here?

INasmuchas God is outside of time. He made the sun, moon, stars, rotation of the earth which creates our 24 hour rotational day. However, God Himself is not subject to earthly time. Is He now.

SO in God's 7 days, there's no reason why millions of human years could not have passed.

Heaven is outside of time. It would have to be for Jesus' words on the cross "you will be with me today in Paradise" to make any sense, because we are also told that the Day of Judgement will come when every person will be judged before God. Not 'everyone except that thief from Calvary'

Studyin'2Show
Apr 28th 2007, 03:14 PM
I see where you're coming from Parax, but I have to point something out. You are correct when you say God is outside of our time limitations. He has no beginning or end. Which it is why it is so important to see the deliberate language used in Genesis 1; "it was morning, it was evening the first day". The 'first day'? For whom? Not for God since we've already established that He is outside of time. Since it is earth that is being created, it follows that the first day was from the point of view of that to which a 'day' has some significance. That's my take on it.

Each book of the Bible has its own nuances. As I posted somewhere else, if I read in Song of Solomon about his lover's breasts being like two fawns; when read in context with the rest of the book, it is clear that her breasts are not actually animals. It is a poetic book filled with many figures of speech that are meant to be taken as such. You must read each book in context. When you read the book of Genesis it is historically written from start to finish. It is complete with long, boring genealogies, ages, locations; not really things you would throw into a poetic book.

God Bless!

Faith44
Apr 28th 2007, 06:14 PM
I appreciate the good words everyone. I am continuing to try and figure these things out. Actually, I am taking a break from the OT. It was making me feel bad. By the time I got halfway through Leviticus, I thought I should have been killed 10 times over by now! LOL :lol:

I still do intend on reading the entire Bible. However, after I read Romans, it made me feel much better about myself. So I started reading Matthew and I intend on going all the way through Revelation. Then I will pick up where I left off in Leviticus and finish the OT from there.

I must say though, I feel that it is good to discuss what we do not understand. I feel like it shows that I care to learn more about it, rather than just believing it without question. I would feel like I was following blindly if I did that.

threebigrocks
Apr 28th 2007, 07:00 PM
That is interesting to hear you say that you got to Leviticus and felt so bad you couldn't continue. Do you mean a level of conviction? The Law served it purpose then, even in today's world. We all need that, it shows the reason we need a Savior. ;)

Praise God we don't have to live and die under the Law any longer, and you could turn to the Gospels. :pp

teshuva
Apr 29th 2007, 09:06 PM
I have to agree with Studyin'2Show.
God is a God of creation. He said sin and death came into the world through Adam.
If there were 'millions' of years of death and suffering before Adam then His WORD would be in question. There was no death before Adam. You have not evolved from slime. Man is the apex of His creation, made perfectly along with all other organisms and animals that He created. There was perfect order in everything He spoke into existence. Everything had a purpose and worked together in complete harmony Technology does not make humans more perfect.
We are not evolving, in fact we are de-volving - getting less and less perfect, living shorter lives.

Please check out Ken Ham's website AnswersinGenesis.org - it will definitely lift your spirits and confirm your faith!

Faith44
Apr 29th 2007, 09:26 PM
That is interesting to hear you say that you got to Leviticus and felt so bad you couldn't continue. Do you mean a level of conviction? The Law served it purpose then, even in today's world. We all need that, it shows the reason we need a Savior. ;)

Praise God we don't have to live and die under the Law any longer, and you could turn to the Gospels. :pp

Praise the Lord indeed! Yes I felt quite convicted in some of the things that I read. Everything just raised my anxieties. I spoke with a priest and he made me feel much better. After I gave him the scoop on my past sins that troubled me most and how I have turned away from them, he said he was certain that I had repented for them properly and am granted forgiveness.


I have to agree with Studyin'2Show.
God is a God of creation. He said sin and death came into the world through Adam.
If there were 'millions' of years of death and suffering before Adam then His WORD would be in question. There was no death before Adam. You have not evolved from slime. Man is the apex of His creation, made perfectly along with all other organisms and animals that He created. There was perfect order in everything He spoke into existence. Everything had a purpose and worked together in complete harmony Technology does not make humans more perfect.
We are not evolving, in fact we are de-volving - getting less and less perfect, living shorter lives.

Please check out Ken Ham's website AnswersinGenesis.org - it will definitely lift your spirits and confirm your faith!

I understand what you are saying, but I still have some oppositions. First off, we are definetly not living shorter lives. The average human life span (in the US) has jumped up from 50 to 75 years (approx) in the past 150 years alone. Unless you are comparing us to when we lived up to 1000 years in the days of genesis.

In regards to evolution, I still have not ruled that one out yet. We could have come from a primortial soup of some sort. The big bang could have happend. But don't get me wrong, I do not believe by any means that we exist by coincidence. I just feel that might have been God's way of creating.

I will quote a Christian I met as he drove me in his cab to the airport when we spoke about this topic, "Why can't science be God's toolbox?"

Maybe there was a series of evolutions and man was something different back then. Of course man was still man in the eyes of God, because he knows that that previous form of man would become man today. Perhaps their communication with the Lord was different back then. There are all kinds of quotes from God in Genesis and throughout the Bible, but it does not always say how He was heard. Did His voice simply echo throughout the world? Or did he have another unique way to converse with beings that had not yet developed a language?

As always, I do not claim this is the truth, it is merely theory. But I do like to think of mysterious ways in which He may have worked through back then.

Studyin'2Show
Apr 29th 2007, 10:52 PM
I simply read what He says He did. I have found no 'actual science' that contradicts what He has told us. True science is knowledge. Things we know. Things that can tested, observed, and repeated.

macarnett
May 1st 2007, 02:50 AM
From the KJV:

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

"Tail" and "thighs" are euphemisms, in later translations. The original made it clear that it was speaking of genetalia. And since reptiles don't have external genetalia, then we can be confident that this is not a description of a dinosaur.

teshuva
May 1st 2007, 12:44 PM
Hi again, Faith44,

Yes, I am talking about the downward spiral of man since the creation account in Genesis. We were designed to live forever and eat from the Tree of Life. But God says in the end He will restore all things to the way they were originally created. In Revelation, you'll see that we again will eat from the Tree of Life! All will be restored.

The origin of life is a matter of history; history can only beknown by eyewitness accounts. The Bible is the recorded eyewitness account provided by the Architect of the universe, the Creator of all life.
The Bible isn't in conflict with observable science but is consistent with it. It's the history book of the universe. It thells us about the origin of life and the origin of death. Since we all eventually will face death, the answers in the Bible, authored by the Creator, should be of prime interest.

Is there any explosion that produces order? Does a terrorist bomb create harmony? Big bangs cause chaos. How could a Big Bang produce a rose, apple trees, fish, sunsets, the seasons, hummingbirds, birds, animals, trees, all with their own eyes, nose and mouth?

If you empty your garage completely of any material whatsoever, and wait 10 years, see if a Mercedes will evolve. If not, try waiting 20 years, or 10,000 years! Nothing.
Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker.
Even evolutionist Stephen Hawkings, the 'smartest, man in the world today, acknowledges "the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been specifically designed for us. If any one of about 40 physical qualities had more than slightly different values, life as we know it could not exist: Either atoms would not be stable, or they wouldn't combine into molecules, or the stars wouldn't form the heavier elements, or the universe would collapse before life could develop, and so on..." (Austin American-Statesman, 10/19/97)

If you believe in evolution then when man evolved he first had to learn to grunt. He had to use stone tools and learn about farming before he could develop 'advanced technology'. God says in Genesis that Adam was not 'primitive' but a highly developed individual.

Adam didn't fall upwards. When he sinned something terrible happened to the whole of creation. Evolution says man should be improving. If Adam was part of an evolutionary progression, how could he fall upwards? Then what is sin? It's a downward spiral. Christ died on the cross to restore what was lost.
Romans 8:22 says, "For we know that the whole creation groaneth ad travalleth in pain together until now." Because Adam sinned the whole of creation was cursed. Creation went from perfect to a cursed state. That's why we needed a Savior!

Gen. 2:20 - "And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field."
Adam obviously could speak, he had a complex language. His descendants made musical instruments, and worked with brass and iron, read Genesis 4:21-22,
"And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron:..."

God's Word is not theory, it's revelation from the One Who was there. We are not to ADD to His Word, or take anything AWAY from His Word.
I'm just saying give Christian scientists a chance. Read Kent Hovind's books, look at Ken Ham's research.
If you want to know for sure, God will open His Word to you. You must search it out, though.

May God bless you in your search for God and in understanding His Word, Who is the absolute Truth, Jesus Christ.

Faith44
May 3rd 2007, 11:09 PM
The Bible is the recorded eyewitness account provided by the Architect of the universe, the Creator of all life.

Tesnuva, thank you for the words of encouragement. I will continue on my quest to understand the Lord more.

Ok, a lot of people say that The Bible is God's Word to Man. Is it litereally belived that God wrote it and cast down a book (scrolls back then I would imagine) to man? From what I understand, The Bible was written by man and it was their interpretations and thoughts of who God is.

So how was it first written? Did God just work through every author's body? Like each person that wrote a book in the Bible, did they just hold a pen, close their eyes and all of the sudden their hand began writing the words?

Now when I theorize what I do not understand in the Bible, I do not feel that I am adding or taking away from the book. I feel like I am filling in the blanks. For example, when I did not understand where Cain's wife came from, I needed an explanation. It does not say anywhere in Genesis where she came from. Either she was Adam and Eve's daughter or God created another person. I don't think that believing either explaination is morally wrong.

With evolution, I see what you are saying about how man was already man. But in the process of him being created, I think it could still be possible. I definetly believe that God created us to be the way that we are. I would imagine that there is at least macro evolution though. Fossils show that humans today are much taller and stronger than our previous ancestors. So perhaps we always were man, but a changing man.

Joyfilled
May 4th 2007, 01:24 PM
I trust in God, I have my faith in Christ but I have trouble believing everything in the Bible. For instance, a problem in Genesis was brought to my attention by a friend who is currently reading the Bible for the 3rd time.

God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

Here are some possible explanations I have come up with. I don't necessarily believe these either, but they would fix things.

1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?

You have to decide where your loyalties are: to Satan who rules the world, or to Jesus who conquered it. Acts 5:29, "We must obey God rather than men!" If we don't, then we can be greatly deceived by Satan who is the ruler of the air.

Those "fossils" are nothing more than speculation of what a s design on a rock looks like. And paleantologists admit that most of the dinosaur exhibits are pieces of scattered bones they have found that they have pieced together to form a beast of their imagination and/or man-made bones to fit the pieces that are missing.

But God does tell us about a giant behemoth as mentioned in Job. So notice that God doesn't list all of the animals he created. They just weren't called dinosaurs then, nor did they live a gazillion years ago or were as big. Jesus tells us, "What is highly valued by the world is detestable in God's sight." So those who really follow Jesus believe Jesus over the human wisdom of the world which is ruled by Satan and is why God tells us it's foolishness in His sight. ;)

Mordecaid
May 11th 2007, 07:11 PM
Oh my goodness. I am new to this forum and happened on this thread. It's amazing to me that there still are Christians that are so threatened by science, when nothing in modern science is incompatible with Christ or His message.

You are not serving Christ by saying such patently absurd things such as the world was created 6000 years ago. By holding such views you are acting just like the Pharisees in trying to trick Jesus into saying the wrong thing by asking him "what's the greatest commandment? " Jesus responded by saying (in essence): the whole of the law is summed up in two points: love the Lord with all your might and your neighbor as yourself.

Likewise, the whole creation story is summed up by saying: God specifically created human kind, in His image, and made them distinct among all creation. The scientific consensus is that modern humans (homo sapiens) came into existence 200,000 years ago in Africa; they migrated to all the regions of the world; overtime hair color/texture, skin color adapted to the varying climates and diets in the different regions of the world; For unknown reasons, Homo Sapiens were so uniquely intelligent/creative that they survived while other Homo species died out; and DNA analysis of the fossils and modern humans prove that we all have a common ancestor. How is this incompatible with the essence of the creation story in Genesis?

It's obviously not. If anything, modern science confirms the existence of God, the creator. Holding to anachronistic views of the Genesis story only serves to alienate the thinking world from Christ's message.

Studyin'2Show
May 11th 2007, 10:07 PM
Oh my goodness. I am new to this forum and happened on this thread. It's amazing to me that there still are Christians that are so threatened by science, when nothing in modern science is incompatible with Christ or His message.

You are not serving Christ by saying such patently absurd things such as the world was created 6000 years ago. By holding such views you are acting just like the Pharisees in trying to trick Jesus into saying the wrong thing by asking him "what's the greatest commandment? " Jesus responded by saying (in essence): the whole of the law is summed up in two points: love the Lord with all your might and your neighbor as yourself.

Likewise, the whole creation story is summed up by saying: God specifically created human kind, in His image, and made them distinct among all creation. The scientific consensus is that modern humans (homo sapiens) came into existence 200,000 years ago in Africa; they migrated to all the regions of the world; overtime hair color/texture, skin color adapted to the varying climates and diets in the different regions of the world; For unknown reasons, Homo Sapiens were so uniquely intelligent/creative that they survived while other Homo species died out; and DNA analysis of the fossils and modern humans prove that we all have a common ancestor. How is this incompatible with the essence of the creation story in Genesis?

It's obviously not. If anything, modern science confirms the existence of God, the creator. Holding to anachronistic views of the Genesis story only serves to alienate the thinking world from Christ's message.Welcome to the boards, Mordecaid! I believe you are mistaken if you believe those who believe the historicity of the Genesis account are 'threatened by science'. Not in the least. I love science. We likely agree on the data but not on the conclusions. The things you list in your post as 'proven' are merely speculation, though many well studied scientists may believe them to be the best explanation of the given data.

What you may not be aware of is that there are many well studied scientists that disagree and hold differing well studied views. That's ok. We do not have to agree. When you say such things as those who disagree with your conclusion are serving to 'alienate the thinking world' you are implying that we are not part of the thinking world. I beg to differ. As I said before, I love science and I love knowledge and learning. Less than six years ago, I held to your beliefs concerning the subject. However, the more I researched the subject, the more I began to believe the history in Genesis completely as written.

We use this forum to discuss ideas and how those ideas can help us be a better witness for the cause of Christ. We do not use this forum to make judgmental comments about other members, no matter what they believe. You tell me why you believe what you believe and quote the scripture that supports your position and I will do the same.

God Bless!

OneStep
May 12th 2007, 01:52 AM
I find that science proves the Bible rather than disproves it.
It may take a little while before the scientist actually prove to themselves that they might have been mistaken a time or two and find that God never made a mistake.
That's ok...I'm sure God has more time and patience than the scientific community has...and He will bring all to the belief in Him and His Word.

okiepastor
May 12th 2007, 02:30 PM
One of the main probelms with the original posting is the so-called determination of the age of the fossils. They were determined by Radio-Carbon dating. A group of us tested the accuracy, once.

We took a piece of lava, for which we knew the exact age. It was broken into several pieces (12 to be exact) and was sent to 4 different labs to be tested by all 3 current methods of radiocarbon dating. When the results came back, there were 12 different dates for the lava being laid down. None was younger than 32 million years, the oldest nearly 3.5 billion years, and no two agreed. Not even two from the same lab. The age of the lava? We had gotten it from the ruins at Pmpeii, Italy, where it had been laid down less than two thousand years ago, the exact date is well-known and well-documented. It was laid down on 24 August, A.D. 79.

It is the opinion of all those involved in that experiment that radio carbon dating cannot be trusted.

Another example. There was a creek in east Texas, which was diverted to build a dam. In the dry bed of the creek was a fossilized rock, which had the footprint of a dinosaur. In the middle of the footprint was the footprint of a man. This means, that the human footprint had to be laid down within hours, or at most days, of the dinosaur footprint, or else the mud would have been dry and not accepted the imprint.

Sorry, the stone is no longer available. The people who found it made a speech and showed photos of it to a crowd of evolutionists. Within less than a week, several evolutionists had flown to Texas, bought hammers, chisels, and crowbars, and had destroyed the imprint, because it destroyed their "theory".

Remember, evolution is a theory, and as such is not proven.

okiepastor
May 12th 2007, 05:47 PM
Today, we are all the descendants of Adam and Eve. Has it always been so? Cain's wife came from the land of Nod, which, according to all I've seen, might be in Ethiopia.

As to all being descendents of Adam and Eve, one of the reasons for Noah's Flood is spelled out in Genesis 6:2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Okay. Now, if we consider that the sons of God were the descendents of Adam and Eve, then who the heck were the daughters of men?

Maybe, and I have no scriptural or even scientific proof of this, just a deeply-held personal opinion, developed through study, that the daughters of men referred to the evolved beings, who no longer exist on the earth. they were annihilated with the Flood. Now, does this explain why Neanderthal simply - disappeared, while Cro-Magnon is modern man? How Cro-Magnon appeared out of nowhere, no evidence of evolution to Cro-Magnon? How about, Cro-Magnon, who were identical in all physical ways to modern man, were not evolved but created?

Braves27
May 12th 2007, 10:10 PM
Oh my goodness. I am new to this forum and happened on this thread. It's amazing to me that there still are Christians that are so threatened by science, when nothing in modern science is incompatible with Christ or His message.

You are not serving Christ by saying such patently absurd things such as the world was created 6000 years ago. By holding such views you are acting just like the Pharisees in trying to trick Jesus into saying the wrong thing by asking him "what's the greatest commandment? " Jesus responded by saying (in essence): the whole of the law is summed up in two points: love the Lord with all your might and your neighbor as yourself.

Likewise, the whole creation story is summed up by saying: God specifically created human kind, in His image, and made them distinct among all creation. The scientific consensus is that modern humans (homo sapiens) came into existence 200,000 years ago in Africa; they migrated to all the regions of the world; overtime hair color/texture, skin color adapted to the varying climates and diets in the different regions of the world; For unknown reasons, Homo Sapiens were so uniquely intelligent/creative that they survived while other Homo species died out; and DNA analysis of the fossils and modern humans prove that we all have a common ancestor. How is this incompatible with the essence of the creation story in Genesis?

It's obviously not. If anything, modern science confirms the existence of God, the creator. Holding to anachronistic views of the Genesis story only serves to alienate the thinking world from Christ's message.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.




The arrogance and foolishness of being able to call the Word of GOD absurd will keep you far from Him. Let that go. You shouldn't be trying to make the Bible conform to science, but looking for the fallacies and falsities of anything that appears to contradict the Word of GOD. Have faith.:)

TEITZY
May 12th 2007, 11:39 PM
God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?


Here (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5060) is an article discussing the recent find of fresh (1000's not millions of years old) T-Rex tissue. Also more articles on dinosaurs and man living together here (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3061/).

Cheers
Leigh

Studyin'2Show
May 13th 2007, 01:39 AM
Today, we are all the descendants of Adam and Eve. Has it always been so? Cain's wife came from the land of Nod, which, according to all I've seen, might be in Ethiopia. Scripture does not say Cain got his wife from Nod, it says he 'knew' her there.

Genesis 4:16-17
16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.

Much interpretation tends to be added in when simply reading it is quite sufficient.

God Bless!