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mikebr
Apr 23rd 2007, 04:17 PM
What will be the fate of Christians who openly sin? I'm talking adultery, murder, not to mention pride, greed, gluttony, etc. Now before you say that "real" Christians would never do such things. This is simply not true. So assuming that real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christians do actually sin what will judgment be like for those people?

Fallenbrooke
Apr 23rd 2007, 04:29 PM
What will be the fate of Christians who openly sin? I'm talking adultery, murder, not to mention pride, greed, gluttony, etc. Now before you say that "real" Christians would never do such things. This is simply not true. So assuming that real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christians do actually sin what will judgment be like for those people?

You're question needs to be broken down. Sin is too general a term with respect to Christians. A person who murders and commits adultery and is not saved does so out of a heart that rejects God and perpetuates blatant and willful rebellion.

However a Christian who has animosity towards another person and fosters bitterness in his heart is already guilty of murder. So how are the two different? If the Christian has truly asked Christ to rule his life begins to sin and a pattern starts taking hold then God will bring him to a place where he will have to confront his attitude and repent.

But both people sin. The Judgment where God doles out eternal punishment...is reserved for God-rejectors. Assuming that's the Judgment you're talking about.

You're question is fairly vague to be honest. You start out with the notion that everybody sins...which is true. But then you seem to want to blanket everyone with Judgment? Not sure. Maybe I am missing something in your question.

hillbilly dave
Apr 23rd 2007, 04:32 PM
What will be the fate of Christians who openly sin? I'm talking adultery, murder, not to mention pride, greed, gluttony, etc. Now before you say that "real" Christians would never do such things. This is simply not true. So assuming that real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christians do actually sin what will judgment be like for those people?
Judgement for sins were paid on the cross. All who are Christians still sin there is no such thing as a big sin nor little sin. Judgement will be truely humbling before the Lord when all our short commings will be laid out before us and no secrets remain. We will realize the blessings we lost as well as our rewards lost due to failing in our walk with the Lord.

mikebr
Apr 23rd 2007, 04:34 PM
You're question needs to be broken down. Sin is too general a term with respect to Christians. A person who murders and commits adultery and is not saved does so out of a heart that rejects God and perpetuates blatant and willful rebellion.

However a Christian who has animosity towards another person and fosters bitterness in his heart is already guilty of murder. So how are the two different? If the Christian has truly asked Christ to rule his life begins to sin and a pattern starts taking hold then God will bring him to a place where he will have to confront his attitude and repent.

But both people sin. The Judgment where God doles out eternal punishment...is reserved for God-rejectors. Assuming that's the Judgment you're talking about.

You're question is fairly vague to be honest. You start out with the notion that everybody sins...which is true. But then you seem to want to blanket everyone with Judgment? Not sure. Maybe I am missing something in your question.

Will Christians be judged for sin? Lets leave God rejectors out of the equation.

mikebr
Apr 23rd 2007, 04:37 PM
Judgement for sins were paid on the cross. All who are Christians still sin there is no such thing as a big sin nor little sin. Judgement will be truely humbling before the Lord when all our short commings will be laid out before us and no secrets remain. We will realize the blessings we lost as well as our rewards lost due to failing in our walk with the Lord.

OK what happens on day two after this realization takes place. Will we mope around heaven for eternity missing what we could have had if only...........? Will we have a smaller mansion than a person who sinned less.

aurora77
Apr 23rd 2007, 06:17 PM
Judgement for sins were paid on the cross. All who are Christians still sin there is no such thing as a big sin nor little sin. Judgement will be truely humbling before the Lord when all our short commings will be laid out before us and no secrets remain. We will realize the blessings we lost as well as our rewards lost due to failing in our walk with the Lord.
That's not biblical. In 1 John 5:16-17 "If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."

There are big and little sins, according to the Bible. If we willfully commit those deadly sins, we will eventually have to face judgement for them.

TrustingFollower
Apr 23rd 2007, 06:23 PM
Look at Hebrews 10:26-27

26For if we go on (AZ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49#cen-NASB-30160AZ))sinning willfully after receiving (BA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49#cen-NASB-30160BA))the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27but a terrifying expectation of (BB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49#cen-NASB-30161BB))judgment and (BC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49#cen-NASB-30161BC))THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Seem pretty clear to me.

hillbilly dave
Apr 23rd 2007, 06:33 PM
We will still rejoice in the Glory of The Father. Jesus taught us to lay up treasures in Heaven not on earth. I dont think anyone on earth can say for sure what happens at Judgement. All that believe in the name of Jesus shall have a place in heaven for if it were not so He would have told us. I imagine that we will see the lives effected by us both good and bad and see where we failed when we knew not anyone was looking. Judgement will come with mercy and grace through Jesus.

Centurionoflight
Apr 23rd 2007, 06:51 PM
TrustingFollower


Look at Hebrews 10:26-27

26For if we go on (AZ)sinning willfully after receiving (BA)the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27but a terrifying expectation of (BB)judgment and (BC)THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Seem pretty clear to me.




Heb 10


12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Pretty Clear that Christ is the complete sacrifice for sins.

Therefore there can be no more.

For one to sacrifice for sins {Blood of beasts} after hearing of Christ; will Cause God to stir up some disipline upon them.

Keene
Apr 23rd 2007, 07:04 PM
That's not biblical. In 1 John 5:16-17 "If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."

There are big and little sins, according to the Bible. If we willfully commit those deadly sins, we will eventually have to face judgement for them.

But sin is still sin in the eyes of God, right? If we tell a lie, or kill someone, are they not considered the same in His eyes? I guess I'm a little confused here.

:help:

TrustingFollower
Apr 23rd 2007, 07:18 PM
TrustingFollower




Heb 10


12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;




14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Pretty Clear that Christ is the complete sacrifice for sins.

Therefore there can be no more.

For one to sacrifice for sins {Blood of beasts} after hearing of Christ; will Cause God to stir up some disipline upon them.

CoL

I am not going to derail this thread and turn it into a OSAS debate. To do that would be an injustice to the origional poster. After this post I will bow out of this thread. I am simply answering the OP.

Hebrews 10:29

29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Centurionoflight
Apr 23rd 2007, 07:54 PM
TrustingFollower



I am not going to derail this thread and turn it into a OSAS debate.


Who said OSAS?

The passage is frankly;

We cant offer blood of beasts for sins and hope that will count as restoration of fellowship.

Christ is the final and complete sacrifice for sins.

Therefore to sin then offer the blood of beasts will cause the wrath of God, upon us in the flesh, even to the point of death.

When we sin; we need to turn to Christ for forgivness; not the alter of blood.

Heb 10

22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

David Taylor
Apr 23rd 2007, 08:10 PM
What will be the fate of Christians who openly sin? I'm talking adultery, murder, not to mention pride, greed, gluttony, etc. Now before you say that "real" Christians would never do such things. This is simply not true.

Mike,
Why do you say it is not true for "real Christians" to do such things?




So assuming that real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christians do actually sin what will judgment be like for those people?

There is a difference from 'sinning' in which everyone does (except Christ), and people living lifestyles of repeated sin which is contrary to being a follower of Christ....and then claiming to be a Christian.

James address this pretty well when he said, "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." James 4:4

So according to James, a real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christian

isn't an adulterer who is a friend of the world
isn't filled with a spirit of lust to envy
isn't proud
isn't double mindedBut rather, a real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christian

is a friend with God
is filled with the spirit of grace
is humble
submits to God
resists the devil
draws nigh to God
has cleansed his hands
has purified his heart
is lifted up by the Lord
So can you explain or clarify a little more the situation?

TrustingFollower
Apr 23rd 2007, 08:23 PM
Yes Christ is the perfect sacrifice, and yes we will sin. We are sinners be nature. When we sin we need to turn to Jesus and repent and ask for forgiveness. But Hebrews 10:26 makes it clear if we sin on purpose, like the OP asks. Then we no longer have the perfect sacrifice, we defile the sacrifice.

Centurionoflight
Apr 23rd 2007, 08:26 PM
TrustingFollower



But Hebrews 10:26 makes it clear if we sin on purpose, like the OP asks. Then we no longer have the perfect sacrifice, we defile the sacrifice.



In light of;

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The context just isnt there to support your conclusion.

The context of {Heb 10:26} is to the HEBREWS{Jews} who still did the blood of beasts for sins at the time this was written.

aurora77
Apr 23rd 2007, 09:42 PM
But sin is still sin in the eyes of God, right? If we tell a lie, or kill someone, are they not considered the same in His eyes? I guess I'm a little confused here.

:help:
It sounds like all sin is not the same. Some sins are deadly (I read that to mean a person will go to Hell after committing them, if they do not repent), others "merely" begin the process of separating ourselves from God. I've heard a good analogy. Imagine there is a rope between each of us and God. A deadly sin would immediately cut that rope. A lesser sin would make a slice in the rope, but not cut it completely. That lesser sin does damage the Christian, make us more prone to sin, so it is important to repent of those sins too.

TEITZY
Apr 24th 2007, 12:45 AM
It sounds like all sin is not the same. Some sins are deadly (I read that to mean a person will go to Hell after committing them, if they do not repent), others "merely" begin the process of separating ourselves from God.

No, the sin leading to death is physical death (see Acts 5:1-11; 1 Cor 11:30) and that is their judgment, not hell. I agree that there are different degrees of sin, as the OT outllines varying degress of punishment for different types of sin and some would also suggest there will be different degrees of punishment in hell (ie. it will be more tolerable for some than others). But ultimately any sin will cause separation from God and if it is not covered by the blood of Christ, the eternal destination of the liar will be the same as that of the murderer.

Cheers
Leigh

hillbilly dave
Apr 24th 2007, 01:40 AM
That's not biblical. In 1 John 5:16-17 "If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."

There are big and little sins, according to the Bible. If we willfully commit those deadly sins, we will eventually have to face judgement for them.
Please help me understand what is a big sin and what is a little sin? My understanding is That Jesus died for all sins past, present,and future. Can any of us honestly say we dont intentionally sin sometimes?

mikebr
Apr 27th 2007, 06:39 PM
Mike,
Why do you say it is not true for "real Christians" to do such things?




There is a difference from 'sinning' in which everyone does (except Christ), and people living lifestyles of repeated sin which is contrary to being a follower of Christ....and then claiming to be a Christian.

James address this pretty well when he said, "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." James 4:4

So according to James, a real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christian
isn't an adulterer who is a friend of the world
isn't filled with a spirit of lust to envy
isn't proud
isn't double mindedBut rather, a real, "born again", washed in the blood, bible believing Christian
is a friend with God
is filled with the spirit of grace
is humble
submits to God
resists the devil
draws nigh to God
has cleansed his hands
has purified his heart
is lifted up by the LordSo can you explain or clarify a little more the situation?

Are you suggesting that there has never been a Christian who did those things?

Sold Out
Apr 27th 2007, 11:26 PM
Will Christians be judged for sin? Lets leave God rejectors out of the equation.

We will not be judged for our sins in the eternal aspect (wages of sin is death=hell). We have escaped the eternal penalty of sin by trusting in what Christ did for us at Calvary.

Now we do suffer the earthly consequences for sin. If you sleep around and catch an STD, that is your earthly consequence for sin. If we keep on sinning, God will lose patience and spank us into eternity. (I Cor 5:5) I've seen some of my brothers and sisters in Christ get spanked by their Heavenly Father...and it's not pretty.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 5:10

We will be judged on how we lived our lives for Christ. Did we obey what we knew to be true? Did we use our spiritual gifts? Did we have the right motive?

You will be judged based on what you did to further the kingdom of God.