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365_days_gone
Apr 24th 2007, 01:38 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

BuffaloSoldier
Apr 24th 2007, 01:41 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

Not all people who drink alcohol are addicted to it. I'd say he was wrong to say that gambling/casinos are sinful in all situations, because some people just go play the slots at a casino once a year or whatever and leave it at that.

Seeker of truth
Apr 24th 2007, 01:45 AM
I believe gambling is a sin. Drinking one or two drinks occasionally is not a sin. Drinking to get drunk is a sin.

Your Pastor is correct. Drunkness is a sin. Drinking an occasional drink is not. It's my belief that a Christian should not drink in public as it could cause another Christian to stumble and it can cause doubt in others. They don't know if it's your first (only) drink or your tenth.

Matthew
Apr 24th 2007, 02:02 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

I think you make a good point. If he calls one a sin because it leads you into other problems then shouldn't the other be a sin if it leads you into other problems as well? You would think that if one can drink and not get drunk and be ok that one could put a quarter in a slot machine without becoming addicted.

DavidDanced
Apr 24th 2007, 02:14 AM
It's my belief that a Christian should not drink in public as it could cause another Christian to stumble and it can cause doubt in others. They don't know if it's your first (only) drink or your tenth.

I agree with this. We should be setting the example. So, I dont drink at all....in public or private.

I was having an issue with this recently. Some people from the ministry I am involved in invited me out for dinner and they were having drinks. I was very uncomfortable because we are very visible in our church and I didn't want anyone to see us and get the wrong idea. Since then I've tried to tell them delicately that I dont drink or want to be around when drinking is going on. Some people have become offended when I try to explain my position. So, I've taken to fellowshipping with them only at church events.

I'd rather avoid the situations than disagree over topics such as this with other Christians.

If God is serving drinks in Heaven, I'll have one when I get there:lol:

xSTEADFASTx
Apr 24th 2007, 02:16 AM
both are highly addictive; I despise alcohol at all levels of drinking; my parents played at harrahs; they really souldnt of because the money could of been put to good use. I just have more of a problem then drinking; because a one armed bandit can't really destory your liver; nor make you have dialisis

Seeker of truth
Apr 24th 2007, 02:22 AM
I agree with this. We should be setting the example. So, I dont drink at all....in public or private.

I was having an issue with this recently. Some people from the ministry I am involved in invited me out for dinner and they were having drinks. I was very uncomfortable because we are very visible in our church and I didn't want anyone to see us and get the wrong idea. Since then I've tried to tell them delicately that I dont drink or want to be around when drinking is going on. Some people have become offended when I try to explain my position. So, I've taken to fellowshipping with them only at church events.

I'd rather avoid the situations than disagree over topics such as this with other Christians.

If God is serving drinks in Heaven, I'll have one when I get there:lol:

I went shopping with my daughter last weekend and she asked me to carry her wine coolers to the car. I prayed the entire time I didn't run into my Pastor :lol:

Things will be so much easier once she is saved :)

365_days_gone
Apr 24th 2007, 02:27 AM
ok, but this thread isn't about alcohol being a sin, so please stay on topic. It is about the comparison of gambling a alcohol and the reasoning behind what the pastor said. How can he say one thing is a sin and the other isn't when his reasoning for the one thing being a sin can be applied to the non-sin thing? And it can't be applied just a little bit...it can be applied entirely!

lordzboy
Apr 24th 2007, 02:28 AM
Many pastors do this......... They pick and choose what they want to be sin but make excuses for the things that they dont want to be a sin. I do not find it biblical that casinos and lottery, etc... is a sin.
The bible says that if you beleive that eatting meat is a sin than it is for you so i guess it would be a sin for your pastor to gamble, but not everyone.

karenoka27
Apr 24th 2007, 02:47 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

I don't think your pastor was all that off. The Bible does not say that we cannot drink wine, though it is better not too (my opinion),

Ephesians 5:18-"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit."

Here the Bible suggests a little wine:

1 Timothy 5:23-"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Gambling and Casinos are clearly for those who desire money. It is taking away from a dependence on God our Provider. In this case man tries to provide for himself in a foolish way:

1 Timothy 6:10-" For the loveof money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

The way one could decide if what they are doing is right or wrong may be to apply this verse:
1 Corinthians 10:31-"Whether therefore you eat or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God."

corijoysdad
Apr 24th 2007, 02:56 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

There are a lot of things that bring people into addiction, etc and many of them start out innocent but evolves into something that controls their life, and gambling is no different.

The Bible doesn't have any specific verses against gambling (that I know of) but there are many verses about how we use our money, and the Bible also discourages us from "get rich quick" schemes, and of course the money being the root of all sorts of evil thing. When done in moderation, gambling is a waste of money, at the very least, and is not much different than say, going to a movie or buying a CD. If you can control it, I think it would fit into the same catagory. The problem is that a lot of people can't control it. Although I can't say exactly where your pastor is coming from, I would think that he is more concerned with where it can lead, and not where it starts, and that may be his point....where it can lead you.

But you ask a good question. If both can lead to ruin, why is one in moderation OK, but another is forbidden. Some people just think that way. You should ask him to clarify. Any pastor worth his salt would be more than happy to explain.

TrustingFollower
Apr 24th 2007, 03:16 AM
This is a good question. How is gambling any different than running a race? With gambling you get money for a prise and running the race you get a trophy. They are a game and can both be addicting. I agree with Corijoysdad on the fact that it is a waste of money. So I guess I don't see how one can be wrong and the other not.

Dunedanranger
Apr 24th 2007, 04:18 AM
My dad (love you dad!:hug: ) always says, "Son, it ain't the drink, its you." I think each person has to decide for themselves whether or not to drink or gamble. Not that I think gambling is a healthy way to spend one's money, or that it "redeems the time." We know as Christians that we are stewards of the gifts Jesus has given us, including time and money. The drink itself may inhibit a person while deciding how to use those gifts, and gambling probably isn't the best way to use gifts. One thing I know that makes quite a few people anti-gambling is that the Roman soldiers gambled for Jesus' clothes. I don't think either drinking or gambling are sins (don't shoot me!), but then again I'm not God, you'll need to ask Him.;) The posters before me did a very nice job explaining, I think. If you want to apply the same reasoning to alcohol as your pastor did to gambling, go right ahead, and more power to you. Remember though, you don't have to go by what your pastor (or anyone here says), go by what God's Word says.

I'm not disagreeing with you, TrustingFollower, but as an athlete I see a lot of differences between gambling and running a race. In a race, you are competing against other humans who happen to train in the same activity as you do yourself. The only risk you take (unless you bet on who will win) is the entry fee, if there is in fact an entry fee for that race. Even that can be looked at as a "ticket to participate," instead of a real gamble. The outcome (or better said, whether you win or lose) is based on individual skill and talent, not on chance. In a casino, however, you are siphoning cash into a machine that is designed to let you win just enough to keep you coming back for more, while also keeping up a steady profit. Not a way I want to use my money...

TEITZY
Apr 24th 2007, 04:43 AM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.


But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

Here's (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=34006) an old thread that might be helpful.

Cheers
Leigh

TrustingFollower
Apr 24th 2007, 01:17 PM
Dunedanranger I only used the race as an analogy. I personally do not gamble. If you look at some of the gambling games they take skill of decision making just like to win the race it takes skill as a runner. My point is gambling is a game and some will argue that it is money spent on entertainment. I don't see it specifically forbidden in the bible so each one of us needs to make our own decision whether to gamble and drink or not.

aurora77
Apr 24th 2007, 02:32 PM
But you ask a good question. If both can lead to ruin, why is one in moderation OK, but another is forbidden. Some people just think that way. You should ask him to clarify. Any pastor worth his salt would be more than happy to explain.

I agree with this--ask your pastor for clarification.

I do have to disagree on the Christians not drinking in public. Since the occasional drink is not a sin, I'm not ashamed to be seeing doing just that, having an occasional drink. I worked at a grocery store while I was in college, and it used to crack me up that people would buy a 6 pack of beer or a bottle of wine and then want in hidden in a paper bag (I actually had people tell me this). I never asked, but I wish I had--why the secrecy? If they think it's OK to have a drink or two, why hide it? It seems to me that if a behavior has to be hidden, it shouldn't be done at all.

Big T
Apr 24th 2007, 03:15 PM
Gambling is not a sin, neither is alcohol. Abusive of either is the sin. Gambling when you can't make your rent, is not being a good steward of your money. And therefore is a sin at that time.

Put simply, gambling is a form of entertainment. Just as is going to the movies. At least in gambling you have a chance to get your money back and then some. At a movie if you go and watch Napolean Dynamite, the theatre won't give you your money back, even though they should and then some.

Matthew
Apr 24th 2007, 04:15 PM
At a movie if you go and watch Napolean Dynamite, the theatre won't give you your money back, even though they should and then some.

Don: Hey, Napoleon. What did you do last summer again?
Napoleon Dynamite: I told you! I spent it with my uncle in Alaska hunting wolverines!
Don: Did you shoot any?
Napoleon Dynamite: Yes, like 50 of 'em! They kept trying to attack my cousins, what the heck would you do in a situation like that?
Don: What kind of gun did you use?
Napoleon Dynamite: A freakin' 12-gauge, what do you think?

Steve M
Apr 24th 2007, 04:18 PM
Put simply, gambling is a form of entertainment. Just as is going to the movies. At least in gambling you have a chance to get your money back and then some. At a movie if you go and watch Napolean Dynamite, the theatre won't give you your money back, even though they should and then some.

Matthew beat me with the obvious punchline...

Let me just say this, though...

GOSH!

PS: Gambling as entertainment is a good understanding. But all entertainment should never, ever be done with, say, the milk money. Responsibility and maturity means budgeting your entertainment money. Yeah.

Big T
Apr 24th 2007, 04:55 PM
Don: Hey, Napoleon. What did you do last summer again?
Napoleon Dynamite: I told you! I spent it with my uncle in Alaska hunting wolverines!
Don: Did you shoot any?
Napoleon Dynamite: Yes, like 50 of 'em! They kept trying to attack my cousins, what the heck would you do in a situation like that?
Don: What kind of gun did you use?
Napoleon Dynamite: A freakin' 12-gauge, what do you think?Ok, now you owe me money and 30 seconds of my life back. Or I can just send you to the cooler.


Matthew beat me with the obvious punchline...

Let me just say this, though...

GOSH!

PS: Gambling as entertainment is a good understanding. But all entertainment should never, ever be done with, say, the milk money. Responsibility and maturity means budgeting your entertainment money. Yeah.Amen. My wife and I love to go to Las Vegas. We save for it and put money aside for the things we want to do. Be it gambling or going to the shows or whatever.

A820djd
Apr 24th 2007, 05:03 PM
Well once in awhile I'll snag a lottery ticket, lose then go "WELL THATS JUST GREAT :mad: "

lol.

Frances
Apr 24th 2007, 05:19 PM
I wonder why many Christians won't have an occasional drink of alcohol (I can't becasue of allergies) saying it is a Sin leading to drunkeness - but don't apply the same logic to eating - which leads to gluttony.

Da Roc
Apr 24th 2007, 07:07 PM
Hi,

The main reason from the bible that gambling is a sin is that in order to win, someone has to lose.

The bible is against any from of gain by usury.

GOD cannot honor any gains where someone loses, even the lottery has losers for someone to win.

Any gain from GOD comes without sorrow.

Like credit cards the system is setup so you pay more then you get,
then puts you into bondage for it.

With that thought then any gains will not be honored, blessed or given from GOD the Father of lights who has no shadow.

Drinking is not a sin, drunkness is, Paul said I can do all things, but not all things are profitable.

The writers of the bible from the beginning to the end of the writtings called any form of the grape - wine even when it was on the vine and unripe they still refered to it as wine.

Just my 2

Peace

Da Roc

Matthew
Apr 24th 2007, 07:39 PM
Ok, now you owe me money and 30 seconds of my life back. Or I can just send you to the cooler.

:lol: , Well I don't think I can give you 30 seconds or your life back. Guess I better get back out the winter coat.

Maybe another quote from the movie would persuade you to show me some mercy.

Napoleon Dynamite: You know, there's like a butt-load of gangs at this school. This one gang kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bo staff.

Toolman
Apr 24th 2007, 08:27 PM
he said gambling and casinos is a sin...no questions about it.
His reasoning was that it is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, and many other problems.

But then said at a Sunday before that alcohol is not. But drunkeness is.

But if casinos and gambling is a sin for the reasons he listed, then could those not be applied to alcohol?

Yes, his logic is incorrect. If something is a sin because it brings people into addiction, depression, etc. then there are MANY things that can fall into that category, including food/sugar, which are not sinful in and of themselves.

That's just to say his logic is incorrect and not to state whether gambling is a sin or not. There might be other reasons for it being sin but the one's named in his logic are not.

Toolman
Apr 24th 2007, 08:31 PM
It's my belief that a Christian should not drink in public as it could cause another Christian to stumble and it can cause doubt in others. They don't know if it's your first (only) drink or your tenth.

SOT,

I know you weren't stating that alcohol was sinful but I do want to point out that Christians drank alcohol publicly for almost 2000 years every single Sunday and many (if not most) still do following Christ's command to do so.

The use of wine was the norm of the Church for almost 2000 years, following Christ's example of the cup of His blood, before man decided to change it to grape juice.

I just think it important to view all of history when considering this issue and not just the last 100 years or so.

Big T
Apr 24th 2007, 08:53 PM
:lol: , Well I don't think I can give you 30 seconds or your life back. Guess I better get back out the winter coat.

Maybe another quote from the movie would persuade you to show me some mercy.

Napoleon Dynamite: You know, there's like a butt-load of gangs at this school. This one gang kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bo staff.You're getting close to getting a neg rep. LOL

Toolman, you too!