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SpeakSlow
May 1st 2007, 11:52 PM
“Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Galatians 3:13

I believe that the cross was a "tree" so to speak. (according to Jews/Christians.)

Jesus was hung on a cross, making him a man cursed by God according to Scripture. In fact, this is partly why Jews reject him.

So what's the deal? Is Galatians 3:13 invalid for some reason? Why do we Christians don't believe this?

Thanks,
Speak

ShirleyFord
May 2nd 2007, 12:19 AM
“Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Galatians 3:13

I believe that the cross was a "tree" so to speak. (according to Jews/Christians.)

Jesus was hung on a cross, making him a man cursed by God according to Scripture. In fact, this is partly why Jews reject him.

So what's the deal? Is Galatians 3:13 invalid for some reason? Why do we Christians don't believe this?

Thanks,
Speak

I believe it.

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Isaiah 53:6,10,11 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Shirley

TEITZY
May 2nd 2007, 12:20 AM
It's simply talking about substitution (Jesus became a "curse for us"), or that Jesus took our place by bearing the punishment for our sins. Second Cor 5:21 carries a similar thought:

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


Most Christians don't deny these facts so I'm not sure where you get the idea that we do?

Cheers
Leigh

SpeakSlow
May 2nd 2007, 12:22 AM
It's simply talking about substitution (Jesus became a "curse for us"), or that Jesus took our place by bearing the punishment for our sins. Second Cor 5:21 carries a similar thought:

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


Most Christians don't deny these facts so I'm not sure where you get he idea that we do?

Cheers
Leigh

Oh ok that clearifies a bit...thanks guys

Teke
May 3rd 2007, 02:42 PM
“Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Galatians 3:13

I believe that the cross was a "tree" so to speak. (according to Jews/Christians.)

Jesus was hung on a cross, making him a man cursed by God according to Scripture. In fact, this is partly why Jews reject him.

So what's the deal? Is Galatians 3:13 invalid for some reason? Why do we Christians don't believe this?

Thanks,
Speak

There are differing views on this. Yes, the cross is viewed as a tree, but so is Jesus viewed as a tree.
The OT verses which speak of hanging on a tree, refer to after the person is dead, he is hung on a tree. Not while they are alive until dead. And the ones before that verse, are on a disobedient son, being a drunkard and glutton (what Jesus was accused of by Jewish law). We know this is untrue. As He was obedient to His Father to death.

Then there is the matter of what curse. Since man was not cursed, but the ground. So if Jesus removed a curse, it would more likely be because He was buried in the ground, thereby removing the curse. Not because of the crucifixion, which certainly doesn't justify the law.

"Adam received the sentence, 'Cursed is the ground in your labors; thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to you' (Gen. 3:17,18). For this cause Jesus assumes the thorns, that He may cancel the sentence; for this cause also was He buried in the earth, that the earth which had been cursed might receive the blessing instead of a curse."
St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures: Lecture 13 no.18)

__________________________________________________ __________

"I want you to know this, that Jesus Christ our Lord is Himself the true Mind of the Father. By Him all the fullness of every rational nature is made in the image of His image, and He Himself is the head of all creation, and of His body the Church (Col. 1:15-18). Therefore we are all members one of another, and the body of Christ, and the head cannot say to the feet, 'I have no need of you'; and if one member suffers, the whole body is moved and suffers with it (Eph. 4:25). But if a member is estranged from the body, and has no communication with the head, but is delighted by the passions of its own body, this means that its wound is incurable, and it has forgotten its beginning and its end.

And therefore the Father of creatures, moved with compassion towards this our wound, which could not be healed by any of the creatures, but only by the goodness of the Father, sent forth to us His Only-begotten, who because of our bondage took upon Himself the form of a bondservant, and gave Himself up for our sins; for our iniquities humbled Him, and by His wound we are all healed; and He gathered us out of all regions, till He should make resurrection of our hearts from the earth, and teach us that we are all of one substance, and members one of another. Therefore we ought greatly to love one another. For he who loves his neighbor, loves God: and he who loves God, loves his own soul."
the letters of St. Anthony the Great (356)

TEITZY
May 3rd 2007, 10:49 PM
There are differing views on this. Yes, the cross is viewed as a tree, but so is Jesus viewed as a tree.
The OT verses which speak of hanging on a tree, refer to after the person is dead, he is hung on a tree. Not while they are alive until dead. And the ones before that verse, are on a disobedient son, being a drunkard and glutton (what Jesus was accused of by Jewish law). We know this is untrue. As He was obedient to His Father to death.

Then there is the matter of what curse. Since man was not cursed, but the ground. So if Jesus removed a curse, it would more likely be because He was buried in the ground, thereby removing the curse. Not because of the crucifixion, which certainly doesn't justify the law.

"Adam received the sentence, 'Cursed is the ground in your labors; thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to you' (Gen. 3:17,18). For this cause Jesus assumes the thorns, that He may cancel the sentence; for this cause also was He buried in the earth, that the earth which had been cursed might receive the blessing instead of a curse."
St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures: Lecture 13 no.18)



Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Obviously this refers to men not nature. Genesis 3 makes it clear that mankind is subject to the curse just as nature is and the word is often used to describe judgment on sinners (eg. Gen 4:11). Whle redemption was purchased by the shed blood of Christ, His physical death was also a neccessary part of the full atonement for sins since the "wages of sin is death" (see Heb 2:9; 1 Pet 3:18).

Cheers
Leigh

Teke
May 3rd 2007, 11:59 PM
Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Obviously this refers to men not nature. Genesis 3 makes it clear that mankind is subject to the curse just as nature is and the word is often used to describe judgment on sinners (eg. Gen 4:11). Whle redemption was purchased by the shed blood of Christ, His physical death was also a neccessary part of the full atonement for sins since the "wages of sin is death" (see Heb 2:9; 1 Pet 3:18).

Cheers
Leigh


I was following the OP in typology.:)
In context and literally, the verse is referring to verse 10 and those who are of the works of the law.

Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

So I agree with you on that it refers to men, but not all men.
Basically or literally, it means our salvation is by faith, and not the works of the law.


Genesis 3 makes it clear that mankind is subject to the curse.....
I don't see that in Genesis 3. We're still subject to God.

TEITZY
May 4th 2007, 12:43 AM
I was following the OP in typology.:)
In context and literally, the verse is referring to verse 10 and those who are of the works of the law.

Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

So I agree with you on that it refers to men, but not all men.
Basically or literally, it means our salvation is by faith, and not the works of the law.

But verse 10 also says "Cursed is every one" which obviously includes man?



I don't see that in Genesis 3. We're still subject to God.

Well as far as I can see verses 14-15 describe the curse on the serpent, verse 16 the curse on women, and verses 17-19 the curse on men and the creation. Of course the origin of all these curses is sin itself, so I don't think it's too far fetched to say that all sinners are cursed and not just subject to the effects of the curse.

Cheers
Leigh

Teke
May 4th 2007, 01:10 AM
But verse 10 also says "Cursed is every one" which obviously includes man?

I agreed it was men, just not all men. The beginning of the verse tells the subject, which is "works of the law", "are under the curse".



Well as far as I can see verses 14-15 describe the curse on the serpent, verse 16 the curse on women, and verses 17-19 the curse on men and the creation. Of course the origin of all these curses is sin itself, so I don't think it's too far fetched to say that all sinners are cursed and not just subject to the effects of the curse.

Cheers
Leigh

The serpent is cursed first, because he's at fault.
The woman is not cursed, see how first God speaks of how Christ will come thru her. I wouldn't call that a curse. And her suffering will make her righteous.
Then the ground is cursed, but not the man. Which means he will suffer also for righteousness.

You see the same theme with their sons. Just suffering for the unjust.
May not seem logical to us, but that is God's way of being merciful toward us and making us righteous like Christ.:)

davidturtledove
May 4th 2007, 01:58 AM
I agreed it was men, just not all men. The beginning of the verse tells the subject, which is "works of the law", "are under the curse".



The serpent is cursed first, because he's at fault.
The woman is not cursed, see how first God speaks of how Christ will come thru her. I wouldn't call that a curse. And her suffering will make her righteous.
Then the ground is cursed, but not the man. Which means he will suffer also for righteousness.

You see the same theme with their sons. Just suffering for the unjust.
May not seem logical to us, but that is God's way of being merciful toward us and making us righteous like Christ.:)

Man and woman were cursed in that hour for from then on they began to know perhaps the worst curse of all -they began to die! The lord said unto to them if you eat of the fruit of this tree you will surely die.

Teke
May 4th 2007, 01:33 PM
Man and woman were cursed in that hour for from then on they began to know perhaps the worst curse of all -they began to die! The lord said unto to them if you eat of the fruit of this tree you will surely die.

Where does it say that was a curse?

davidturtledove
May 4th 2007, 07:48 PM
Where does it say that was a curse?

what else would you describe it as- man became subjected to death where as before he was not- this was one of the greatest tragedies for man in the history of the universe! Man & and woman sinned in the garden. I cannot begin to fathom how much better it was for man before that day. Before that moment we knew no sin, now it is our nature to sin with death as our reward- yes i would say it was a very powerful curse indeeed. That is why the Lord sacrificed Himself to save us from this self destructive nature and put on the new nature in Christ

Teke
May 4th 2007, 10:04 PM
what else would you describe it as-


God's mercy.



this self destructive nature


We are created in the image and likeness of God. Is "self destructive" how you would describe God?

Sold Out
May 4th 2007, 10:30 PM
“Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Galatians 3:13

I believe that the cross was a "tree" so to speak. (according to Jews/Christians.)

Jesus was hung on a cross, making him a man cursed by God according to Scripture. In fact, this is partly why Jews reject him.

So what's the deal? Is Galatians 3:13 invalid for some reason? Why do we Christians don't believe this?

Thanks,
Speak

It says Jesus BECAME the curse for us in order to save us. The law is cursed...and Jesus became that curse for us. ("Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law..." Gal 3:13)

davidturtledove
May 5th 2007, 04:02 AM
We are created in the image and likeness of God. Is "self destructive" how you would describe God?

We are created in God's image but that does not mean man does not sin. Sin is death and when man sins he is destroying himself. God does not sin. God is not self destructive. Man and woman first knew sin when they disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit.

This is why Christ died for our sins that we might come to know His glorious freedom.

davidturtledove
May 5th 2007, 04:10 AM
God's mercy

God is merciful, i will not argue that! However the Lord did make man reap much misery from his wrongdoing in the garden, mankind was cast out and began to die.

God's mercy was later sent in the form of His Son. Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so the son of man was lifted up so that all who look upon Him might live.