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OneStep
May 7th 2007, 05:03 PM
The scripture speaks of willfully sinning in:
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

I understand this as those which have received the truth and then reject it and choose to live after satan.....that is unforgiveable. Hebrews 6:4-6

Adam, to my understanding, sinned "willingly", versus "willfully".

qbee
May 7th 2007, 05:14 PM
Yes I think wilfully is pre-mediated sin ..

Adam didnt pre-mediate he just willingly got caught up and went along
with it - in the moment - we must guard ourseves and wear the whole
armor to protect ourselves - especially from temptation in the moment -
and also place ever thought into subjection so as not to wilfully sin -

I will add both types of sin are forgivable.

This scripture I believe is speaking of a total rejection of Christ and
ones faith and falling away _ made reprobate and will no longer have
the will or any desire to repent or return to God in faith .. with out
devine intervention ..

chal
May 7th 2007, 11:18 PM
chal > It seems to me that both "wiilngly and willfully," could mean different things depending on the context. It would help me to clarify what you mean if you would choose an entry from the definitions below for each word as you mean it in context of your post.

Willful \Will"ful\, a. [Will + full.] [Written also wilful.]
[1913 Webster]
1. Of set purpose; self-determined; voluntary; as, willful
murder. --Foxe.
[1913 Webster]

In willful poverty chose to lead his life.
--Chaucer.
[1913 Webster]

Thou to me
Art all things under heaven, all places thou,
Who, for my willful crime, art banished hence.
--Milton.
[1913 Webster]

2. Governed by the will without yielding to reason;
obstinate; perverse; inflexible; stubborn; refractory; as,
a willful man or horse.
[1913 Webster] -- Will"ful*ly, adv. -- Will"ful*ness,
n.
[1913 Webster]

Willing \Will"ing\, a. [From Will, v. t.]
[1913 Webster]
1. Free to do or to grant; having the mind inclined; not
opposed in mind; not choosing to refuse; disposed; not
averse; desirous; consenting; complying; ready.
[1913 Webster]

Felix, willing to show the Jews a pleasure, left
Paul bound. --Acts xxiv.
27.
[1913 Webster]

With wearied wings and willing feet. --Milton.
[1913 Webster]

[Fruit] shaken in August from the willing boughs.
--Bryant.
[1913 Webster]

2. Received of choice, or without reluctance; submitted to
voluntarily; chosen; desired.
[1913 Webster]

[They] are held, with his melodious harmony,
In willing chains and sweet captivity. --Milton.
[1913 Webster]

3. Spontaneous; self-moved. [R.]
[1913 Webster]

No spouts of blood run willing from a tree.
--Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

SemperReformanda
May 7th 2007, 11:31 PM
It's interesting how Strong's defines the word in Hebrews 10:26:

ἑκουσίως
hekousiōs
hek-oo-see'-oce
Adverb from the same as G1595; voluntarily: - wilfully, willingly.

Same thing. :rofl:

OneStep
May 7th 2007, 11:36 PM
Your examples are not what I would choose from to explain what I mean. I will attempt to do so.
Willfully, is a rebellious attitude, stubborn, muleish, headstrong, absolute refusal, non-repentant.

Willingly is as 'qbee" described....like Adam. Caught up into a situation, not necessarily headstrong for disobedience, just disobedient. Repentful after the case. Willing to correct one's self attitude.

SemperReformanda
May 7th 2007, 11:45 PM
Your examples are not what I would choose from to explain what I mean. I will attempt to do so.
Willfully, is a rebellious attitude, stubborn, muleish, headstrong, absolute refusal, non-repentant.

Willingly is as 'qbee" described....like Adam. Caught up into a situation, not necessarily headstrong for disobedience, just disobedient. Repentful after the case. Willing to correct one's self attitude.
So your point is that Jesus' sacrifice can wash away sins that are done willingly, but not sins that are done willfully?

OneStep
May 7th 2007, 11:48 PM
Well...unknown to me previously....that is...before now :blush: There was a thread started by Jesusinmyheart, june 13, 2006 in reference to sinning willfully....
Guess I better go read it...who knows, I may learn something...ya think? :yes:

OneStep
May 7th 2007, 11:51 PM
EXACTLY......:hug:
Now why couldn't I have said that so simply :lol:

SemperReformanda
May 8th 2007, 12:07 AM
The Bible is pretty clear that all people sin willfully and willingly. God goes as far as to say that all the thoughts of men are only evil continually (Gen 6:5, 8:21). Setting up a distinction between "types" of sins is not only unbiblical, it is Catholic.

If the blood of Christ only covers sins that I do willingly, and not sins that I do willfully, then I am damned.

RogerW
May 8th 2007, 01:46 AM
The Bible is pretty clear that all people sin willfully and willingly. God goes as far as to say that all the thoughts of men are only evil continually (Gen 6:5, 8:21). Setting up a distinction between "types" of sins is not only unbiblical, it is Catholic.

If the blood of Christ only covers sins that I do willingly, and not sins that I do willfully, then I am damned.

Great post! You are right there is no difference between sinning willingly or willfully. Even if there were, Hebrews 10 is not speaking of losing our salvation by committing some imagined unforgivable sin, and neither is Hebrews 6. How could some think Hebrews 10:26 says we can commit a sin that cannot be forgiven when just a few verses earlier we read:

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

If those who are sanctified (made holy, purified) have been perfected forever, how could their willing or willful sinning cause them to be lost? How can the sins and iniquities of those who are sanctified be remembered no more, if they could willingly or willfully sin and be lost?

If others would read the passage carefully, as you obviously have it tells us that where remission (freedom, forgiveness, pardon) of sins is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words once our (believers/elect) sins are forgiven through the one sacrificial offering of Himself on the cross, there will never again be another offering for sin. Of course God does not make distinction between types of sin we commit, and there is NO sin we commit that will make us fall from the grace the Lord has freely given to His own.

RW

SemperReformanda
May 8th 2007, 01:55 AM
Great post! You are right there is no difference between sinning willingly or willfully. Even if there were, Hebrews 10 is not speaking of losing our salvation by committing some imagined unforgivable sin, and neither is Hebrews 6. How could some think Hebrews 10:26 says we can commit a sin that cannot be forgiven when just a few verses earlier we read:

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

If those who are sanctified (made holy, purified) have been perfected forever, how could their willing or willful sinning cause them to be lost? How can the sins and iniquities of those who are sanctified be remembered no more, if they could willingly or willfully sin and be lost?

If others would read the passage carefully, as you obviously have it tells us that where remission (freedom, forgiveness, pardon) of sins is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words once our (believers/elect) sins are forgiven through the one sacrificial offering of Himself on the cross, there will never again be another offering for sin. Of course God does not make distinction between types of sin we commit, and there is NO sin we commit that will make us fall from the grace the Lord has freely given to His own.

RW
Amen brother. Cheers.

OneStep
May 8th 2007, 03:50 AM
I certainly am not Catholic, nor have i ever been to a catholic church.
I had been reading something about Adam sinning "willingly" and then I was reading Hebrews, that is where the "willful" distinction came in my mind. It appeared to me there was a distinction between "willing" and "willful".
I certainly had not taken a stand on knowing the answer to the OP, I was hoping I would get some explanations other than my own. I have gotten several good explanations and appreciate all the efforts that have been taken to explain.

GothicAngel
May 8th 2007, 01:36 PM
The Bible is pretty clear that all people sin willfully and willingly. God goes as far as to say that all the thoughts of men are only evil continually (Gen 6:5, 8:21). Setting up a distinction between "types" of sins is not only unbiblical, it is Catholic.

:eek: And may the good Lord spare us from them... *yikes*

chal
May 8th 2007, 09:12 PM
Repentful after the case. Willing to correct one's self attitude.

Thanks for explaining. Is there a type of sin that is impossible to be repentful of afterwards? If not then I see no reason for making the distinction. Repenting is what we should be focused on.