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StrongVibe
May 8th 2007, 04:19 AM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

Slug1
May 8th 2007, 04:20 AM
:hmm: :huh:

SemperReformanda
May 8th 2007, 04:30 AM
The question doesn't work. God doesn't lift rocks, he doesn't have arms, he doesn't have a size, size is irrelevant to God. There is no possible answer to that question.

OneStep
May 8th 2007, 04:48 AM
"with God all things are possible"

chal
May 8th 2007, 07:20 AM
Christian rock is very creative.

cwb
May 8th 2007, 08:12 AM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

What's your point?

GodsOwnFool
May 8th 2007, 12:19 PM
This is a question is see continuously from atheists on another board I frequent. :rolleyes:

Paul_born_again
May 8th 2007, 12:31 PM
I think I know what God's answer to that would be:
"Give me a logical question and I'll answer it."

Why do atheists think that just because they are so dumb as to create an illogical question that does not make sense and cannot be answered, this somehow means that God does not exist? I don't see the connection.

Theophilus
May 8th 2007, 12:33 PM
Check this out: http://www.carm.org/questions/rock.htm

It handles about as well as any site the question you ask.

As for me, I've never be concerned about this "conundrum"...all I care about is "Can God lift the "rocks" I can't lift?"

...and the answer has always been, and will always be, "Yes."

Slug1
May 8th 2007, 12:39 PM
I got this my email the other day and the analogy (is that the right word?) is awesome:

A little boy was spending his Saturday morning playing in his sandbox.
He had with him his box of cars and trucks, his plastic pail, and a
shiny, red plastic shovel. In the process of creating roads and
tunnels in the soft sand, he discovered a large rock in the middle of
the sandbox. The lad dug around the rock, managing to dislodge it from
the dirt. With no little bit of struggle, he pushed and nudged the
rock across the sandbox by using his feet. (He was a very small boy
and the rock was very large.)

When the boy got the rock to the edge of the sandbox, however, he
found that he couldn't roll it up and over the little wall.
Determined, the little boy shoved, pushed, and pried, but every time
he thought he had made some progress, the rock tipped and then fell
back into the sandbox. The little boy grunted, struggled, pushed,
shoved... but his only reward was to have the rock roll back, smashing
his chubby fingers. Finally he burst into tears of frustration.

All this time the boy's father watched from his living room window as
the drama unfolded. At the moment the tears fell, a large shadow moved
across the boy and the sandbox. It was the boy's father. Gently but
firmly he said, "Son, why didn't you use all the strength that you had
available?"

Defeated, the boy sobbed back, "But I did, Daddy, I did! I used all
the strength that I had!"

"No, son," corrected the father kindly. "You didn't use all the
strength you had. You didn't ask me."

With that the father reached down, picked up the rock, and removed it
from the sandbox.

Do you have "rocks" in your life that need to be removed?
Are you discovering that you don't have what it takes to lift them?
There is One who is always available to us and willing to give us the
strength we need.
When the apostle Paul faced times of a broken spirit and sapped
strength, he proclaimed to the Corinthian church, "My grace is enough
for you. When you are weak, then my power is made perfect in you."
2 Corinthians 12:9b NCV

When we are broken in spirit and our strength is spent, we can turn to
our Savior, Jesus.

chal
May 8th 2007, 12:58 PM
I love rock season.

Slug1
May 8th 2007, 01:08 PM
I moved about 2000 lbs of rock last week but I used a tractor for help :P

StrongVibe
May 8th 2007, 01:12 PM
This is a question is see continuously from atheists on another board I frequent. :rolleyes:
It is...I got this question from another forum. When I read it and tried to answer it, I couldn't. I didn't know how to tackle it.

StrongVibe
May 8th 2007, 01:13 PM
I moved about 2000 lbs of rock last week but I used a tractor for help :P
That doesn't count lol. Where in upset NY do you live?

VerticalReality
May 8th 2007, 01:18 PM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

So, basically what you're asking is can God lift Himself?

Keene
May 8th 2007, 01:28 PM
I got this my email the other day and the analogy (is that the right word?) is awesome:

A little boy was spending his Saturday morning playing in his sandbox.
He had with him his box of cars and trucks, his plastic pail, and a
shiny, red plastic shovel. In the process of creating roads and
tunnels in the soft sand, he discovered a large rock in the middle of
the sandbox. The lad dug around the rock, managing to dislodge it from
the dirt. With no little bit of struggle, he pushed and nudged the
rock across the sandbox by using his feet. (He was a very small boy
and the rock was very large.)

When the boy got the rock to the edge of the sandbox, however, he
found that he couldn't roll it up and over the little wall.
Determined, the little boy shoved, pushed, and pried, but every time
he thought he had made some progress, the rock tipped and then fell
back into the sandbox. The little boy grunted, struggled, pushed,
shoved... but his only reward was to have the rock roll back, smashing
his chubby fingers. Finally he burst into tears of frustration.

All this time the boy's father watched from his living room window as
the drama unfolded. At the moment the tears fell, a large shadow moved
across the boy and the sandbox. It was the boy's father. Gently but
firmly he said, "Son, why didn't you use all the strength that you had
available?"

Defeated, the boy sobbed back, "But I did, Daddy, I did! I used all
the strength that I had!"

"No, son," corrected the father kindly. "You didn't use all the
strength you had. You didn't ask me."

With that the father reached down, picked up the rock, and removed it
from the sandbox.

Do you have "rocks" in your life that need to be removed?
Are you discovering that you don't have what it takes to lift them?
There is One who is always available to us and willing to give us the
strength we need.
When the apostle Paul faced times of a broken spirit and sapped
strength, he proclaimed to the Corinthian church, "My grace is enough
for you. When you are weak, then my power is made perfect in you."
2 Corinthians 12:9b NCV

When we are broken in spirit and our strength is spent, we can turn to
our Savior, Jesus.



Thanks for sharing Slug. That was a great story (and lesson)!

GothicAngel
May 8th 2007, 01:34 PM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?
No.

Everything comes from God.

You cant have something be greater then that from whence it came.

For example, if you have a pound of clay, no matter how hard you try, you cannot make something out of it that is more than a pound.

And since God is what that everything ceoms from, the absolute source, He must be greater than that which comes from Him.

Scruffy Kid
May 8th 2007, 01:46 PM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

Here's a different answer.

Meaningless words don't become meaningful just because we put the words "God can" or "God can't" or "Can God ...?" before them.

If we ask "Can God zibble a hroolt?" the answer is that the question is meaningless. It doesn't refer to a real action.

Similarly, if we ask "Can God create a straight line that is curved?" or "a square circle?" the answer is that the question is meaningless. A straight line by definition is not curved; there is no such thing as a curved straight line. To create is to bring into existence. Something that is a contradictory concept cannot exist, so it cannot be created. This is not a limitation of one who tries to create it, but reveals that the question is based on contradictory presuppositions (here, that a straight line can be curved).

Questions like "Can God create a rock so big he can't lift it?" or, "a pebble so small he can't see it?" are similar. There is no such thing as a pebble so small God can't see it -- God sees all that is -- and no such thing as a rock so large God can't move it -- for God can move, dissolve, and so on, all things. He is Lord. Therefore the questions are asking "Can God create something that cannot, by definition, exist? It's a silly question, meaningless, or obviously false. It's no limit to God's power that he can't do self-contradictory things, or create things that by definition could not exist.


The answer at carm

The answer at carm has some limitations and drawbacks. (1) It gets off into a complex discussion of God's nature. This can be good, or not, depending on where you want to go in the conversation. (2) It implies that God is "big" in the sense of occupying space so that a rock of the kind required would be "bigger than God". This is just confused, and false. God does not dwell in time and space: he created them, and all that is in them. IMO it plays into the misunderstanding that God is a being alongside other beings, rather than the Creator of all, who is beyond all things.

Usually the questioner seems to think he or she's scored a big point with such a question. The advantage to answering with the logic objection to the question -- rather than the theological objection that carm (rightly and illuminatingly) raises about God's omnipotence being part of his nature, etc. -- is that it stays on the turf of logic, and defeats the wiseguys there where they think they're the smart ones.


Possible follow-ups

The question posed is a little like the demo that a ham sandwich is better than eternal happiness. (Nothing is better than eternal happiness. But a ham sandwich is better than nothing. Therefore -- by transitivity -- a ham sandwich is better than eternal happiness.) I like logic games and paradoxes. But it would be silly to suppose that such things tell us something about eternal happiness. Similarly, its silly to suppose that the pseudo-paradox about the big rock contributes to discussion of whether God exists.

Thus one might come back by saying Ha, ha! good joke. Here's why it's just a joke. But if this is what atheists come up with, as refutations of God's omnipotence, it shows they have a pretty weak case.

The noted scientist and philosopher Francis Bacon, 1561-1626, stated (in the first chapter of his book The Advancement of Learning) "But further, it is an assured truth, and a conclusion of experience, that a little or superficial knowledge of philosophy may incline the mind of men to atheism, but a further proceeding therein doth bring the mind back again to religion."


Previous discussion of this question on the board

You can find a similar post here: http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=761866#post761866) , and that thread which raised the same question has various good advice from others on the board as well.

TEITZY
May 8th 2007, 01:51 PM
It is...I got this question from another forum. When I read it and tried to answer it, I couldn't. I didn't know how to tackle it.

Well it's a totally pointless and irrelevant question anyhow so you don't need to answer it. Another illogical favourite of theirs is, "Can God make a square circle". For people who don't believe in God, Atheists seem to spend a lot of their time worrying about Him!

Anyhow if you did want to answer this stupid question you could take the approach outlined by GothicAngel above or you could simply point out that God is omnipotent and therefore it wouldn't matter how heavy the rock was because someone with infinite strength can lift anything.

Cheers
Leigh

Looks like SK beat me to it. Just treat my post as the abridged version.

Magnetic
May 8th 2007, 06:07 PM
I sure do wish that I could zibble a hroolt. I feel about useless. :sad:

SIG
May 10th 2007, 07:32 AM
Q: Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

A: He can, but He won't.

GothicAngel
May 10th 2007, 01:14 PM
Q: Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

A: He can, but He won't.
How is that possible?

Magnetic
May 10th 2007, 01:53 PM
God COULD create a rock so big that it couldn't be lifted. It would be as big as the infinite size of the universe and beyond, filling up ALL conceiveable and inconceivable space, . . . .thus, there would be no more space in which it could be moved (by lifting or any other means). So, you would have a rock that couldn't be lifted.

bergie38
May 10th 2007, 03:36 PM
I got this my email the other day and the analogy (is that the right word?) is awesome:

A little boy was spending his Saturday morning playing in his sandbox.
He had with him his box of cars and trucks, his plastic pail, and a
shiny, red plastic shovel. In the process of creating roads and
tunnels in the soft sand, he discovered a large rock in the middle of
the sandbox. The lad dug around the rock, managing to dislodge it from
the dirt. With no little bit of struggle, he pushed and nudged the
rock across the sandbox by using his feet. (He was a very small boy
and the rock was very large.)

When the boy got the rock to the edge of the sandbox, however, he
found that he couldn't roll it up and over the little wall.
Determined, the little boy shoved, pushed, and pried, but every time
he thought he had made some progress, the rock tipped and then fell
back into the sandbox. The little boy grunted, struggled, pushed,
shoved... but his only reward was to have the rock roll back, smashing
his chubby fingers. Finally he burst into tears of frustration.

All this time the boy's father watched from his living room window as
the drama unfolded. At the moment the tears fell, a large shadow moved
across the boy and the sandbox. It was the boy's father. Gently but
firmly he said, "Son, why didn't you use all the strength that you had
available?"

Defeated, the boy sobbed back, "But I did, Daddy, I did! I used all
the strength that I had!"

"No, son," corrected the father kindly. "You didn't use all the
strength you had. You didn't ask me."

With that the father reached down, picked up the rock, and removed it
from the sandbox.

Do you have "rocks" in your life that need to be removed?
Are you discovering that you don't have what it takes to lift them?
There is One who is always available to us and willing to give us the
strength we need.
When the apostle Paul faced times of a broken spirit and sapped
strength, he proclaimed to the Corinthian church, "My grace is enough
for you. When you are weak, then my power is made perfect in you."
2 Corinthians 12:9b NCV

When we are broken in spirit and our strength is spent, we can turn to
our Savior, Jesus.



I LOVE THIS STORY! Thanks for sharing! :)

KingFisher
May 10th 2007, 06:36 PM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?

Hi StrongVibe,:wave:

I've seen this question quite a few times myself. The best answer that I've heard is this one, but I can't seem to remember where I heard it.

If anyone knows maybe you could link to it.

Anyway it goes something like this…

You could in turn ask this.

Let talk about a genius. Now this particular genius can pass any test. There is no test that he can't pass. He's a genius.

Well my question is could this genius pass a test that would qualify him as an idiot?

You don't have to answer that and this is why.

The question is constructed in a manner that it contradicts itself. This means that any answer given would then therefore contradict the other idea.

The problem isn't with the answer but with the question itself.

What you are seeing is language at it's logical limit. It's like saying the impossible has been accomplished. Well if it was impossible then it couldn't be accomplished.

God Bless,
KingFisher

davidturtledove
May 10th 2007, 09:09 PM
The Lord God Himself is the only rock that cannot be upheaved! This stone has become the head of the corner and upon it the church will be built. This is the Lord's doing and it fills our eyes with wonder!

*Madeline*
May 10th 2007, 09:21 PM
2 Timothy 2:23 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

SIG
May 10th 2007, 10:14 PM
How is that possible?

1. He refuses to be involved in the frivolous.

2. Because He is sovereign, we need to prove ourselves to Him--not Himself to us.

Soj
May 10th 2007, 10:50 PM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?No.

Yes all things are possible with God, but he never does anything contradictory, as would be the case if he created a rock he couldn't lift!

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

fuzzy
May 11th 2007, 12:01 AM
lol I had a christian friend ( one of my best friends),

ask a similar question:
can God lift a rock greater than himself?....... Which I thought like okayyyyy.... so I said yes he can with God all things are possible. then he goes: No he cant there is nothing greater than God. Which is unfair cause the question is a oxymoron. If u say no then that means God cant do all things then... which is the complete oposite but if you say yes then the answer I said willl end up :):):):):):rofl: funny joke guys lol

GothicAngel
May 11th 2007, 12:29 AM
God COULD create a rock so big that it couldn't be lifted. It would be as big as the infinite size of the universe and beyond, filling up ALL conceiveable and inconceivable space, . . . .thus, there would be no more space in which it could be moved (by lifting or any other means). So, you would have a rock that couldn't be lifted.
Ah... your right there man ;)

Silent Wings
May 11th 2007, 01:17 AM
Can God create a rock He wouldn't be able to lift?


If an all-powerful God can create a rock He wouldn’t be able to lift, then an all-knowing God can think of a way to build a machine to lift it for Him. :pp