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GothicAngel
May 17th 2007, 01:40 AM
I apologize if this is the wrong forum...

I have a question regarding the Protestant belief of "Faith alone."

I do recognize that in this belief, that the real saving faith is accompanied by works, for you will know the tree by its friuts.

Also, I do recognize that in this belief one is either saved, or not saved.

By that I am assuming that then one either has saving faith, or doesnt.

So my quetsion is... is it correct that there is a clear line between saving faith and dead faith (ie, you cant be in between, because no in between salvation)? And if so, what number/kind/etc of works is the minimum for this saving faith?

RSiscoe
May 17th 2007, 02:29 AM
I apologize if this is the wrong forum...

I have a question regarding the Protestant belief of "Faith alone."

I do recognize that in this belief, that the real saving faith is accompanied by works, for you will know the tree by its friuts.

Also, I do recognize that in this belief one is either saved, or not saved.

By that I am assuming that then one either has saving faith, or doesnt.

So my quetsion is... is it correct that there is a clear line between saving faith and dead faith (ie, you cant be in between, because no in between salvation)? And if so, what number/kind/etc of works is the minimum for this saving faith?

It is not necessarily the works that makes faith a living faith. Supernatural charity (grace in the soul) is what makes faith a living faith.

Supernatural charity, which is also called grace, is the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is what makes man a "new creation", and a "partaker of the Divine nature".

This supernatural charity allows our good deeds to be supernatural. When we do good for the love of God, and through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, these works serve to sanctify our souls. It is through this sanctification of our souls that we are said to be "justified by works" (James 2:24); and it is in this context that the Bible speaks of a dead, vs. living faith.

The Bible (I believe Corinthians) tells us that it is "faith that worketh through charity" that God desires. This is a perfect description of supernatural faith. It is faith, animated by grace (supernatural charity) that does good by cooperating with the inspirations of the Holy Ghost who dwells within the soul.

These works, although imperfect, are pleasing to God and serve to sanctify our souls by uniting our wills with that of God. Although there may be faults mingled with these good works, as long as we have the indwelling Holy Ghost, and perform these works for the love of God, he is pleased.

Dead faith is faith that is not animated by this supernatural charity. We find this faith in a believer who is in the state of unrepentant sin, for unrepentant sin is incompatible with the indwelling Holy Ghost.

th1bill
May 17th 2007, 03:58 AM
I apologize if this is the wrong forum...

I have a question regarding the Protestant belief of "Faith alone."

I do recognize that in this belief, that the real saving faith is accompanied by works, for you will know the tree by its friuts.

Also, I do recognize that in this belief one is either saved, or not saved.

By that I am assuming that then one either has saving faith, or doesnt.

So my quetsion is... is it correct that there is a clear line between saving faith and dead faith (ie, you cant be in between, because no in between salvation)? And if so, what number/kind/etc of works is the minimum for this saving faith?
I can no more tell you the number of the good works the LORD has led me to perform for Him, in His name than I could tell the fool on the airplane that asked me how many Vietnamese I killed in my three tours there. Him I told to go join the Army or the Marines and you I will tell, simply put, go forth and work, as God leads you.

There is no magic formula. Me? I'll just plow my row until I fall over that fence at the end.

CFJ
May 17th 2007, 05:06 PM
I apologize if this is the wrong forum...




Not to worry... will move the thread for you to appr. forum... :)

RSiscoe
May 17th 2007, 08:19 PM
[FONT=Arial Black][COLOR=royalblue]I can no more tell you the number of the good works the LORD has led me to perform for Him, in His name than I could tell the fool on the airplane that asked me how many Vietnamese I killed in my three tours there.

Anyone who did three tours in Vietnam has my respect.

Beloved by God
May 18th 2007, 01:21 AM
Okay....hang on.....:hmm:

Are you asking how many good works you have to do before you are saved?





To go ahead and answer that question, 2 will not do it, 10 will not do it, 100,000 will not do it.
Salvation is freely given, and freely taken. You cannot buy a ticket to heaven; you also cannot trade or steal one. Belief in Christ's death and resurrection is what gets you there.

But if you are saved, and are listening to God's Word, then you should be doing good works, for a good tree bringeth forth good fruit.

The Parson
May 18th 2007, 02:09 AM
Simply put, you are saved by God's Grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by anything you could or would do. And certainly not by works cause that would give someone the chance to brag about saving themselves. It is Gods gift to you...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

RogerW
May 18th 2007, 06:32 PM
I apologize if this is the wrong forum...

I have a question regarding the Protestant belief of "Faith alone."

I do recognize that in this belief, that the real saving faith is accompanied by works, for you will know the tree by its friuts.

Also, I do recognize that in this belief one is either saved, or not saved.

By that I am assuming that then one either has saving faith, or doesnt.

So my quetsion is... is it correct that there is a clear line between saving faith and dead faith (ie, you cant be in between, because no in between salvation)? And if so, what number/kind/etc of works is the minimum for this saving faith?

The doctrine of Sola Fides - by faith ALONE, comes from the Protestant Reformation. Many in the Protestant Church will claim justification (salvation) is by faith alone, but some will also insist that in order to become righteous before God the one receiving this gift of faith, must accept/receive it, thereby making salvation dependent upon not only faith, but also our own effort or work. This was the same error of the Roman Catholic church during the time of the Reformation.

Martin Luther became convinced that the church had lost sight of what he saw as several of the central truths of Christianity, the most important of which, for Luther, was the doctrine of justification - God's act of declaring a sinner righteous — by faith alone. He began to teach that salvation or redemption is a gift of God's grace, attainable only through faith in Jesus as the Messiah.

"This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification," Luther wrote, "is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness."

Luther came to understand justification as entirely the work of God. Against the teaching of his day that the righteous acts of believers are performed in cooperation with God, Luther wrote that Christians receive that righteousness entirely from outside themselves; that righteousness not only comes from Christ, it actually is the righteousness of Christ, imputed to us (rather than infused into us) through faith. "That is why faith alone makes someone just and fulfills the law," he wrote. "Faith is that which brings the Holy Spirit through the merits of Christ." Faith, for Luther, is a gift from God. He explained his concept of "justification" in the Smalcald Articles:

The first and chief article is this: Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins and was raised again for our justification (Romans 3:24-25). He alone is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29), and God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6). All have sinned and are justified freely, without their own works and merits, by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, in His blood (Romans 3:23-25). This is necessary to believe. This cannot be otherwise acquired or grasped by any work, law, or merit. Therefore, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us ... Nothing of this article can be yielded or surrendered, even though heaven and earth and everything else falls (Mark 13:31).

Salvation is NOT AN OFFER! When the Lord died on the cross, He did not die to offer salvation to man, He actually redeemed all who would be saved with that one sacrificial atoning act. Christ assured, at that moment, that all who would hear the gospel, and be given faith necessary to believe would become saved.

We confuse the message of the cross, that is offered unto all men with salvation. The gospel message, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”, is the means of receiving saving faith, but it is not salvation. All the world is OFFERED the message of the cross, but only those who are given ears to hear will believe and receive salvation. Salvation is NOT the free gift OFFERED, it is the free gift GIVEN to all who believe. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit to impute faith into our hearts, enabling us to believe. There was nothing we did, we did not accept/receive this free gift through faith, we were in fact passive recipients of the awesome grace of Christ ALONE. This is what the Protestant Reformed mean when saying we are saved by FAITH ALONE.

RW