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BibleForums Christian Message Board - Bible Chat https://bibleforums.org/ Questions and answers. Any conceivable topic related to the Bible. en Tue, 19 Mar 2019 17:32:00 GMT vBulletin 60 https://bibleforums.org/images/misc/rss.png BibleForums Christian Message Board - Bible Chat https://bibleforums.org/ <![CDATA[The Identities of the "Serpent" (Num 21:6; John 3:14)]]> https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/281075-The-Identities-of-the-quot-Serpent-quot-(Num-21-6-John-3-14)?goto=newpost Tue, 19 Mar 2019 03:54:45 GMT SYMBOLISM IN THE “SERPENT” (Num 21:6; John 3:14) When we read about “The Serpent” in the Torah/Bible, we are reminded of Satan. “The Devil is the Serpent.” 99% of the time, it DOES symbolize “HaSatan.” But what about the other 1%. If it... SYMBOLISM IN THE “SERPENT” (Num 21:6; John 3:14)


When we read about “The Serpent” in the Torah/Bible, we are reminded of Satan. “The Devil is the Serpent.” 99% of the time, it DOES symbolize “HaSatan.” But what about the other 1%. If it isn’t HaSatan, then, who can it be? Are you thinking about Messiah? Really? Seriously? Well, let’s see.


We read in the Torah when the people of Israel sinned and complained, that Adonai sent “fiery serpents” to bite the people. Some translations say that they were “Seraphim” angels of fire, or perhaps the “Seraphim” directed the serpents to bite the people. One can only wonder. Yet when the people repented, Adonai directed Moshe to erect a bronze serpent on a pole and whoever looked at it, would be healed of the serpent poison.(Numbers 21:6-9)


In John 3:14, Yeshua speaks saying; “As Moshe lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so the Son of Man be lifted up.”


Does this mean that the serpent, in this case, is Messiah? Or is the bronze serpent “likened” unto Messiah in being “lifted up?’


Here are some things to ponder on. The people were poisoned by the serpents’ bites, yet the same serpent on the pole, when looked at, healed the one looking at it. Scientists take snake venom and make serum out of it, so as to heal people who are bitten by that same snake. The venom that kills, is the venom that heals.


In our case, sin kills, yet Messiah Yeshua carried our sins on the cross, so being filled with our sins, we who look and trust IN Him, who carried our sins, are healed! What else can we see?


In Hebrew gematria. The words we look at are; “Nachash” (serpent) and “Mashiach” (Messiah). When we add up the number values, they both equal “358”. “Nun, Chet, Sheen” = 358, “Mem, Sheen, Yod, Chet” = 358.


Then we look at the symbolism in these numbers. 3 = Elohim, 5=grace, 8=new beginning. What can we see in the number 358 then? One way we can look at it is; “Elohim gives grace in our new beginning” (as born-again believers, we are saved by “saving grace”. 3+5+8 = 16. 1=Echad, 6=man. “Elohim who is “Echad” (the Unity of ONE) became man (to save mankind from the curse of sin). “16” 1+6=7. “7” is perfection.


What then can be the whole message? “Elohim, who is “echad” ONEness in three, in his grace toward mankind, became a perfect man, without sin, so that mankind, whosoever that “looks up” to HIM, might be saved and have a “new beginning”.



Shalom... Ben Avraham ]]>
Bible Chat Yakov https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/281075-The-Identities-of-the-quot-Serpent-quot-(Num-21-6-John-3-14)
Moses and God and ministry https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280905-Moses-and-God-and-ministry?goto=newpost Sat, 16 Mar 2019 11:00:54 GMT Moses was a King in Egypt, but became a shepherd in the wilderness. He learned to lead a flock. After learning to be a shepherd, God used him to lead Israel, God's flock. There was a time when the Lord got agitated (a soft word considering the circumstances) with Israel and told Moses something astounding.

Exodus 33:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, "Depart, go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, 'To your descendants I will give it.' 2 "I will send an angel before you and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3 "Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, because you are an obstinate people, and I might destroy you on the way."

He told Moses that He would help Israel come into the life of fullness! He would help them overcome the strongholds in battle. They would conquer the promised land. BUT, God would not go with them. Instead, He would send His angel ahead of them.

Moses had the chance to minister to people. To help them. To help bring them into God's promises. To help them overcome the strongholds in their lives. But it would be done, without God! That was the offer that God made to Moses. Basically, God was saying "I'll honor my word. I will keep my promises to you and to the people. But I am not going to be with you." What a terrifying thought! A life of fullness in the natural, and even victory over my strongholds, but without the presence of God.

Moses, a man who loved God said this later in the chapter:

Exodus 33:12 Then Moses said to the Lord, "See, You say to me, 'Bring up this people!' But You Yourself have not let me know whom You will send with me. Moreover, You have said, 'I have known you by name, and you have also found favor in My sight.' 13 "Now therefore, I pray You, if I have found favor in Your sight, let me know Your ways that I may know You, so that I may find favor in Your sight. Consider too, that this nation is Your people." 14 And He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest." 15 Then he said to Him, "If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here. 16 "For how then can it be known that I have found favor in Your sight, I and Your people? Is it not by Your going with us, so that we, I and Your people, may be distinguished from all the other people who are upon the face of the earth?"

Moses did not want ministry that improved people's lives without God being there too. Also, Moses readily admitted that He did not understand why God was behaving as He did and asked God to help him learn His ways. God granted all that was in Moses' heart. His presence went with Moses and Moses learned God's heart, His ways. The Psalmist said that Moses knew God's ways and Israel knew His acts.

As ministers of the gospel, we can move forward in ministry and see God help people. He will send His angel to enforce His word. People will get set free. They will get saved, delivered, overcome their strongholds, but all that can happen without God being with us in His manifest presence. Let us be careful that we do not move out to build our ministry, or to solely improve people's spiritual lives, etc. For ultimately, the main purpose, is to make sure we are intimate with God, with His heart, with His ways, and that when it comes to others, we minister WITH Him (or more accurately, He ministers while we walk with Him) rather than ministering just so mankind can have a better spiritual life, or be improved, or our own reputation, or for a blessing to "our" ministry, or even just "FOR" Him as He keeps His promises and enforces His word.

Written in fear and trembling.

God bless! ]]>
Bible Chat Brother Mark https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280905-Moses-and-God-and-ministry
Why the Spirit is given to Jesus? https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280903-Why-the-Spirit-is-given-to-Jesus?goto=newpost Sat, 16 Mar 2019 05:59:06 GMT Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?" I have my own inclinations, which I may share later, if there is some good input on this.

I do find that there are many Christians who have been ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and that includes me. I've been a Pentecostal for many years, but was raised up in the Lutheran Church. So the change in theology, from the classic "salvation of Jesus" to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" brought about some confusion in my mind. Pentecostals, raised up in the Pentecostal tradition, simply accepted the "Spirit Baptism" without thought. But more traditional Christian thought has had to challenge some of their assumptions, as have I.

One thing I agree with my Pentecostal brethren, however. And that is on the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. We are to be "filled with the Spirit," making melody in our hearts to the Lord and praying continually. We are to walk in the light, and make the most of every opportunity. This is the "Spirit-filled life."

What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation.

Christian salvation, therefore, should always be characterized by spiritual living. But we should also rely on the power of the Spirit to proclaim our testimony. We do not need to wait for another Pentecost, however, since the Spirit has already been given both to Jesus and to the Church. What we do need, though, is to be led by the Spirit when we are proclaiming the Gospel, so that it will be carried out in power.

Any thoughts? ]]>
Bible Chat randyk https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280903-Why-the-Spirit-is-given-to-Jesus
How do the Levitical offerings point to YESHUA/JESUS? Lev 1:1-6:7 https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280901-How-do-the-Levitical-offerings-point-to-YESHUA-JESUS-Lev-1-1-6-7?goto=newpost Sat, 16 Mar 2019 03:42:54 GMT PARASHA: “Vayikra” (and he called) LEVITICUS 1:1-6:7………ISAIAH 43:21-44:23……MARK 11:1-12:44 We start the book of Leviticus, this part of the Torah has to do with the Mishkan (the tabernacle) now ready to be used, and the sacrificial system... PARASHA: “Vayikra” (and he called)



LEVITICUS 1:1-6:7………ISAIAH 43:21-44:23……MARK 11:1-12:44




We start the book of Leviticus, this part of the Torah has to do with the Mishkan (the tabernacle) now ready to be used, and the sacrificial system that will be instituted within the Mishkan. All the sacrifices point to and illustrate MESSIAH YESHUA (Jesus the Christ) who he is and what his one-time sacrifice means to us as believers. Even though the sacrificial system was completed with Messiah's death on Calvary, it is still worthwhile studying the meaning of it all, since it is a very integral part of the Torah.


One interesting part of the word; “Vayikra” is that in the Hebrew, there is a small “Aleph” at the end of the word. Some ask as to why? Why is the “Aleph” small and a bit elevated? One answer is that it reminds us that we must approach God in a humble way, we must humble ourselves when we look up to HIM.


The first thing you must do is read over the scripture verses, from Chapter 1:1 through 6:7. Now we are ready for a discussion. The whole idea of a “Korban” (offering) is to generate the idea of “substitution”. Also, the word “Korban” symbolizes “coming close to God.” Our sin separates us from God, yet through the blood, in our case, the blood of Yeshua, we come “close” to God.


The sacrificial system involves; a gift, a death, a substitute, a renewed “close” relationship. “The gift (HaMatanah)” comes from the person offering, which is an animal. The animal, which would be a goat, a lamb, a bull, or a bird, would be killed and the blood splattered on the altar (Mizbeach), the animal would be a “substitute” for the person who offers it. The sins of the person “transfer” to the animal. Through the sacrifice, the relationship between the offerer and YHVH is renewed. But remember that the “sacrifices” are just symbolic of what they really mean, which is Messiah Yeshua taking on ALL of our sins and him being nailed to the cross, and shedding his blood for our sins, giving us a “renewed” relationship with Him, through a “born-again” experience.


There were 5 kinds of “korbanot” (offerings); 1. The burnt offering (Olah) 2. The sin offering, 3. The guilt or trespass offering; 4. The Peace offering (Korban Shelamim) 5. The grain or meat offering (Minchah). Each one identifies our relationship with Messiah Yeshua.


THE BURNT OFFERING (Olah) This involved animal sacrifice, the animal was completely burned on the altar and the ashes taken away and buried “outside the camp” the head, the inner organs, and the legs were burned as well. The pieces of the animal were arranged on the altar and burned. The head could symbolize our “thoughts” the inner organs could represent our “inner being, the heart, and the legs, our “walk” all of these were “offered up” to YHVH, thus symbolizing our “complete surrender to God in all that we are and have. The altar as you remember was made of hardwood overlaid with bronze and had a grill in the middle, and under the grill was earth and stones. Wood was laid on the grill and the animals were cut up and laid on the grill and burned. This reminds us of Yeshua who was “sacrificed” by his own free will on a WOODEN cross and was consumed by the “fires of judgment” He was judged for OUR SINS. The animal’s throat was cut and the blood was poured out and splashed on the altar. The person offering the animal showed that he/his family was “offering themselves to the LORD”. It also symbolizes our awareness of our sin nature. This sacrifice originated in Genesis, with Adam and Eve, Abel offered an “Olah Korban” so did Abraham, when he offered up the ram instead of his son Isaac, so did Noah, when he left the ark.


THE SIN OFFERING (korban chatat) This also involved animal sacrifice. It symbolized our specific sins that we commit by mistake, (active) or something we do not do, or forget to do (passive). In this korban, the person would offer the animal as a sacrifice, the person would place his hands on the head of the animal, transferring his “sins” into the animal, which would be the “substitute. The animal’s throat would be cut and the blood splattered on the altar. The priest would offer on the altar the fat, the liver, and the kidneys of the animal. These could symbolize our inner being. In this, the person confessed their sins and they did it by free will, and the animal symbolized Yeshua who paid our sin price in full.


THE TRESPASS OR GUILT OFFERING; This involved the same process, only that the person who committed an offense against another would also have to bring compensation for the wrongdoing, either in payment in silver or gold, or payment with animals. When we offend another person, be the person a brother or sister in Messiah or an unbeliever, we need to “compensate” the sin, if we can do it, sometimes, we cannot, if the sin is against the person’s character, no amount of money can repay the damage done, only a sincere confession in humbleness. So, we need to watch our “walk”.


THE PEACE OFFERING (Shelamim). The word “Shelamim” comes from “Shalom” (peace) this was an enjoyable sacrifice in which both the priest and the offerer and his family would enjoy “roast beef, goat, or lamb”


This was a “thankfulness” offering for blessings received. The animal was offered in the same way, only the meat was shared between the priest and his family, and the offeror and his family. We see this kind of “korban” even today in the parks, when families go out and BBQ ribs (hopefully beef and not pork) chicken, beef sausage, steaks, etc., many times they invite friends and family to enjoy in the “grilling and BBQ” they also have bread, or tostadas, tortillas, drinks, salad, etc. to accompany the meal.


THE MEAL OR MEAT OFFERING (Minchah) this was a non-blood offering on the altar, in this korban, fine flour was offered, mixed with olive oil, frankincense, and also, the flour was made into cakes, rolls of bread, or flatbreads (tortillas) but made without leaven or honey. These usually accompanied the peace offerings, to make the meal a “feast”. The fine flour symbolizes “YESHUA THE BREAD OF LIFE” the oil THE RUACH HA KODESH (The Holy Spirit) the frankincense, OUR FELLOWSHIP THROUGH PRAYER. The animal itself represented Yeshua who gave his life for us and took upon himself ALL of our sins, past, present, and future. The word “KORBAN” (sacrifice) comes from the Hebrew verb KARAV which means; “to come near”


We can only come near to YHVH through the shed blood of Messiah Yeshua, who was the “sacrificed lamb” the Bible says that “without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sins” Our sins were “atoned for once and forever. That is why the “new covenant” or “renewed” covenant is a BETTER covenant because there is no more need for animal sacrifices because YESHUA took their place.




ISAIAH 43:21-44:23




YHVH speaks through the Prophet Yeshayahu and is complaining that Israel has forgotten about God, they no longer bring sacrifices but are engrossed in sin, He explains that craftsmen will use their skill to make idols, that have no value, what a waste of craftsmanship! They can take iron and make a plowshare, swords, and even an idol. Is the fault in the iron? Or in the craftsman? Iron is just material from the ground, the craftsman can turn it into something for usefulness or for idolatry. The worker in wood can cut down trees, make perhaps a plow, a wheel, use the wood for fuel for the fire, or make a wooden idol. Is it the wood’s fault? or does the fault lie with the craftsman? Even today, we can use money either to buy food for our family, pay our bills, or buy and sell drugs! Does the fault lie in the money? Or the use of it? We can use money to honor or dishonor God and those around us, the choice is ours. God cries out to Israel; “I SHALL WIPE OUT YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS LIKE A CLOUD, AND YOUR SINS LIKE A MIST, RETURN TO ME AND I SHALL REDEEM YOU” (44:22) The promise still stands. If we “shuv” to HIM, HE will save us!




MARK 11:1-12:44




There are several themes in these verses. Yeshua is in all of them. One theme is that when he went into the temple in Yerushalayim, he threw over the money tables and chased out the money changers, saying “My house is a House of prayer but you have made it a den of thieves” there are many synagogues and some churches that refuse to conduct business on the Sabbath or on the day of worship because they are reminded of that verse. However, Yeshua called them “thieves” these money changers were exchanging foreign money such as Greek “drachmas” and Roman “Denarii” for Israel “Shekels” in order to buy sacrifice animals. Many times, the money changers would not honor the exchange rate, and would “cheat” the clients. If 12 Mexican pesos equaled 1 US dollar, it would be like accepting the 12 pesos and giving the person 75 cents! Perhaps these money changers were cheating in this way.


In 12:29-31 Yeshua quotes the “Shema” Hear O Israel YHVH is our Elohim, YHVH is ONE (Echad) and he continues, Love Elohim with all your heart, being, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Yeshua just summed up all the 613 commandments in two verses! Because all the commandments have to do with our relationship with YHVH and our relationship with our fellow man. That is the purpose of Bible study, to learn of these commandments and put them into practice, so as to deepen our relationship with Messiah Yeshua and to be a good witness to our fellow man, and…bring lost mankind to a saving relationship with Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Christ)






Shabbat Shalom………………. Rabbi Ben Avraham ]]>
Bible Chat Yakov https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280901-How-do-the-Levitical-offerings-point-to-YESHUA-JESUS-Lev-1-1-6-7
The real abomination of desolation :) Food for thought. https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280877-The-real-abomination-of-desolation-)-Food-for-thought?goto=newpost Fri, 15 Mar 2019 12:37:48 GMT I've been following but not commenting on the threads about the "abomination of desolation". Maybe it is time to speak about another view but by no means, do I wish to say this one replaces the historical or yet to be abomination of desolations that have occurred or will occur. There is a literal abomination of desolation. But there's also a personal one for us as well. Also note the word order... it is an abomination of desolation. It is not an abomination that causes desolation but rather, one that results from desolation.

2 Thess 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

God created the body to be His temple. We know the scriptures that say this. But, before Jesus comes, the man of sin must be revealed. Before Jesus comes, our heart is desolate, empty of righteousness and full of sin. And for each of us, there comes a time when God opens up the eyes of our heart and we see that we have placed ourselves on the throne in the temple (our heart/body). We have declared ourselves god of our own lives. We have ruled as we saw fit. We have done what is right in our own eyes. We thought we knew good and evil, and we did, though it was a perverted and twisted version of good and evil we still knew it on some level. Because of that, we were full of judgment of other people, full of sin. We were the abomination (and are) of desolation. God wasn't in us and it showed! Our sin was a huge black hole that was so large, we became undone before Him. And God began to show us that we are the "man of sin" who set himself up as god in the "temple" and committed the "abomination of desolation". As we repent of being our own god, only then can or will Jesus appear in glory to us as Savior and everything changes after that!

God bless! ]]>
Bible Chat Brother Mark https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280877-The-real-abomination-of-desolation-)-Food-for-thought
<![CDATA[Jesus/Yeshua's Title as "The Great Mountain" ZECH 4:7]]> https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280854-Jesus-Yeshua-s-Title-as-quot-The-Great-Mountain-quot-ZECH-4-7?goto=newpost Thu, 14 Mar 2019 01:48:52 GMT * YESHUA; THE GREAT MOUNTAIN* * We know the different titles of Yeshua, like “The Bread of Life,” “The Light of the World,” “The Living Water,” “The Good Shepherd,” and many more, but have... YESHUA; THE GREAT MOUNTAIN


We know the different titles of Yeshua, like “The Bread of Life,” “The Light of the World,” “The Living Water,” “The Good Shepherd,” and many more, but have you heard of “Yeshua, the Great Mountain?” This is a title that is not well known, yet it is a title. It comes from the book of Zechariah;

“Who are you? A Great Mountain before Zerubbabel? A plain, and He shall bring forth the Top Stone with shoutings of grace, grace unto it (him). (Zechariah 4:7)

The question; “who are you?” indicates that it IS a person that the mountain refers to. We can see some symbolism in the original Hebrew; “Mi atah HaHar HaGadol?” In this verse, we can find the letters YHVH.
If we look at the “Sod” understanding of “HaHar, HaGadol” (A Great Mountain) using gematria, the two words sum “703.” One way we can look at this number is; “The Perfect, Eternal, Elohim.”

Two other words which can point to Mashiach are “plain” (mishor) and “Top Stone’ (Aven). While a mountain is “very high” or “tall”, a plain, on the other hand, is lower than a mountain and flat. Yeshua was with the Father in Heaven, yet he left his place “On High” to come “down” to earth to dwell among men. Serve, heal, teach, and finally, die for our sins. The Hebrew word “mishor” comes from “Yashar” which means “straight” or “blameless” Yeshua was “straight and blameless” Hitting the mark, fulfilling all the Torah and the Prophets. The word; “Yashar” is part of the word “Yisrael” it means “Yashar-El” (Straight to God).

The “Top Stone” is the most important stone, “Stone” in Hebrew is “Aven” which is the combination of “Av” (Father) and “Ben” (Son). And who is the “he” that brings forth the “Top Stone?” Could it be the Father who brings forth the Son? And the Son is full of “Chen” (grace). The word “Grace” is mentioned twice. The word “it” can also be translated “him” There are two types of “grace;” Saving grace and Covenant grace. By grace, we are saved, and through the renewed covenant, we “grow” in grace and faith.

Another verse that can support this is Isaiah 52:13; “He shall be lifted up and be very high” What on earth is higher than a mountain? Yeshua died for our sins, was buried and then, “lifted up” resurrected and now is “on high.” He came from being “on high” to come down and be a “plain” and then was lifted up and ascended unto the Father once again.

Have a blessed day…..Rabbi Yakov







Ref: “The Return of the Kosher Pig” pgs 84-90 ]]>
Bible Chat Yakov https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280854-Jesus-Yeshua-s-Title-as-quot-The-Great-Mountain-quot-ZECH-4-7
Hate https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280835-Hate?goto=newpost Tue, 12 Mar 2019 02:00:06 GMT I know over the years there has been a lot of talk about this. My question is rather difficult to answer but here it is: When searching the hate (including all forms such as hates and hated) I come up with different number results from different... I know over the years there has been a lot of talk about this. My question is rather difficult to answer but here it is:

When searching the hate (including all forms such as hates and hated) I come up with different number results from different versions of the Bible, ie. New American Standard, King James and so on. I expected the numbers to vary but not in the range of double-digits. The reason I didn't expect such a big margin is because the word hate is very difficult to debate. It's pretty clear how the Bible defines hate as well as how people define it. In other words, hate doesn't have a "grey" area...I think we can all agree that even if there is a fine line between love and hate, there is still a line; a difference.

So when I searched "hate," the N.I.V. version has 127 results. But the N.A.S.B. version has 163 results...and I checked to make sure all tenses of the word were included. I haven't cross-referenced yet to see the differences. But with that many more versions of hate, can someone tell me why one version included that many more/less depending on your point of view? Having just a few like 5 would be confusing. But having 36 seems like a big margin to have with a such a strong word. ]]>
Bible Chat Dreamdweller https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280835-Hate
Mistrust For Others? https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280833-Mistrust-For-Others?goto=newpost Mon, 11 Mar 2019 21:50:21 GMT What does Scripture say about trusting others (i.e.: your neighbor, or brother/sister in Christ)? Do you believe a general mistrust, except in relating to God, is a problem or even sinful? What would be some solutions? What does Scripture say about trusting others (i.e.: your neighbor, or brother/sister in Christ)? Do you believe a general mistrust, except in relating to God, is a problem or even sinful? What would be some solutions? ]]> Bible Chat Aviyah https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280833-Mistrust-For-Others The Tabernacle! Three? or just ONE? EXODUS 38 https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280665-The-Tabernacle!-Three-or-just-ONE-EXODUS-38?goto=newpost Sun, 10 Mar 2019 02:35:52 GMT Continuing in a Midrash over Parashah “P’Kudei” (accounting of) in Exodus 38, the tabernacle seems to be mentioned/referred to in three ways; 1. HaMishkan (The Tabernacle) 2. HaMishkan, HaOhel Moed (The Tabernacle, Tent of Meeting) 3. ... Continuing in a Midrash over Parashah “P’Kudei” (accounting of) in Exodus 38, the tabernacle seems to be mentioned/referred to in three ways;

1. HaMishkan (The Tabernacle)
2. HaMishkan, HaOhel Moed (The Tabernacle, Tent of Meeting)
3. HaMishkan, HaEidut (The Tabernacle of the Testimony).

In reality, there are ALL the same, yet referred to by different names. Why is that? Why does Moshe refer to them in different ways? Perhaps we can see the ministry of Adonai in different ways.

“HaMishkan” If we go back to the ancient Hebrew spelling of the word “Mishkan” It is spelled with 4 Hebrew letters. “Mem” “Sheen” “Kaph” and “Nun” It comes from the verb “Sh’ken” which is “to dwell”. The reason that Adonai ordered Moshe to build the Tabernacle was so that HE could dwell amongst HIS people. One can look at the letters from the ancient Hebrew perspective and say;


“The Living Water who is the All-Consuming Fire anoints (his people) with life” … or … “Our lives became anointed when the presence of the All-Consuming Fire /the Living Water is amongst us”


“HaOhel Moed” (The Tent of Meeting) Why do we go to the synagogue/church? Because it is the meeting place where we meet with Elohim. His spirit is there! Even if there are only two believers present in some place, HE is in the midst! So, Adonai dwells with his people so that we can “meet” with HIM. “Ohel Moed” has 7 letters, “7” is the number of perfection. “Aleph” “Hey” “Lamed” and then; “Mem” “Vav” “Ayin’ “Tav”


Again, going back to the ancient Hebrew understanding of the symbolism in the letters, we could understand these two words in the following manner: “Behold the God of Instruction and Teaching (gives his people/us) the “living water (of the word) which connects us with insight, which is at the door”. When we meet with Adonai, we are taught His Word through his chosen teachers, we are taught about Yeshua who is the “Living Water” who gives “insight’ (or understanding). The understanding is there at the door, all we have to do is open the door (of our mind and heart) to receive it. It is interesting that the last word “Moed” has the letters “Ayin and Dalet” which spell “Witness” there are witnesses when we meet with Adonai, Adonai himself and his holy angels besides those who are there to receive the Word of God.


“HaEidut” (Testimony or Pact) The Mishkan was also known as the “Eidut” the Tabernacle of Testimony. What is the testimony? The testimony is the presence of the “Tables of the Torah” The tablets of the Commandments which were placed in the Ark of the Covenant. The word “Eidut” spelled in the Hebrew consists of three letters; “Ayin’ “Dalet” and “Tav”. When we see these from the ancient Hebraic perspective, we can see this message; “Insight is at the door of the Covenant” or we could also understand it as; “The covenant gives insight, and that is at the door”. The letter “Tav” in the ancient spelling looks like a cross leaning to one side. It speaks of the New Covenant under Yeshua, and when we understand (insight) the message of “Yeshuah” (Salvation) then that “Yeshuah” is at the “door”. All that we need to do is open the door and receive “Yeshuah” that comes from “Yeshua” (seems like a play on words). Again, we see the two letter “Ayin and Dalet” (ED) yet here they are reversed, yet they are still present, the “Witness”


In conclusion, the Tabernacle was all about where Adonai came to dwell amongst his people to dwell with them, teach them his word, his ordinances, his commandments, to direct them to a new lifestyle other than the life they had in Egypt.

We meet with Adonai in HIS place of worship to receive his word, and to allow HIM to dwell inside of us through His Holy Spirit. We learn His Word and his Word directs ALL to YESHUA, who is the New Covenant


Rabbi Ben Avraham (Jimmie)


(just finished my Ebook "God Tales An Anthology," just have to get a website now) ]]>
Bible Chat Yakov https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280665-The-Tabernacle!-Three-or-just-ONE-EXODUS-38
Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine? https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280641-Do-We-Need-Thee-and-Thou-Thy-and-Thine?goto=newpost Sat, 09 Mar 2019 06:11:32 GMT Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine? “So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.” Nehemiah 8:8 “Every word of God is pure … Add thou not... Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?


“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly,
and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”
Nehemiah 8:8


“Every word of God is pure … Add thou not unto his words,
lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5-6


“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
Luke 4:4



If you love the words of the living God, please take a few minutes to delight in His precision and accuracy in giving you the Holy Scriptures in the English language. The blessed God promised to preserve His words (Ps 12:6-7). If the Lord Jesus Christ was concerned about every jot (smallest Hebrew letter) and tittle (small Hebrew mark), then surely He was concerned about the pronouns He chose for the Bible (Matt 5:18). There is a Bible version far more accurate than the others, and it requires thee's and thou's! Yet it is these "archaic" words that are the most popular reason for modern Bible versions.

When buying a new Bible, many Christians ask for a new version without thee’s and thou’s. They are tired of old words that they no longer use in everyday speech. Many of them want to read the Bible like a novel, in the street language of modern America. They prefer the Readers’ Digest condensed versions of books, including the Bible! And they can easily find a Christian bookstore that will criticize the out-of-date language of the King James Version to sell them a modern Bible reading like a newspaper.

What most Christians do not know is that the thee’s and thou’s in the King James Version reflect a form of English far superior to that of modern English in two ways. First, these older pronouns are necessary to show whether the second person personal pronoun is singular or plural. And second, they are far more reverent and conducive to prayer and worship than the gender-neutral, street-talk of the modern versions that refer to the great and dreadful God of heaven as the reader’s buddy or copilot.

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/sc...e-and-thou.php


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Bible Chat Jude https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280641-Do-We-Need-Thee-and-Thou-Thy-and-Thine
<![CDATA[Ready to build God's House! EX 35:1-38:20]]> https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280292-Ready-to-build-God-s-House!-EX-35-1-38-20?goto=newpost Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:11:34 GMT PARASHA: VaYakhel (and he assembled) and P’Kudei (Accountings of) EX 35:1-38:20 and EX 38:21-40:38…………….1 KINGS 7:13-8:21…………. MARK 9:1-50 These are the final chapters of Exodus (Shemot) and Moshe talks about honoring the Sabbath day, the... PARASHA: VaYakhel (and he assembled) and P’Kudei (Accountings of)



EX 35:1-38:20 and EX 38:21-40:38…………….1 KINGS 7:13-8:21…………. MARK 9:1-50






These are the final chapters of Exodus (Shemot) and Moshe talks about honoring the Sabbath day, the prohibition of lighting a fire on the Sabbath, gathering an offering to build the tabernacle and it’s furnishings, the appointment of persons to make certain items, and finally, the building project in detail and the outcome. All these are worth talking about.
” Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to YHVH”
” You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”



These are very important statements, commandments repeated from before. Even before the building project begins, YHVH wants his people to know the work days, rules, and regulations. In this “work-a-holic” world in which we live, the believer should know when to stop and rest. YHVH commands it, for our own good and mental soundness. Too many people work all seven days a week, perhaps 10 or more hours each day to make a “lot-of-money” only to spend the extra money at the hospital when they have a nervous breakdown because of all the extra work hours.


The Sabbath is a day to spend with the family, at the family’s place of worship., be it at a synagogue or at a church. It is a time to spend with the LORD, to worship, learn from HIS WORD, and fellowship with other believers. It is a time to leave the things of the house alone, perhaps eat out, and return home at the end of Sabbath. It is intended as a “day of rest” so, “rest” means exactly that, “rest”.


When we look at the commandment; “Thou shalt kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath” we need to ask ourselves, what was fire used mainly for? Probably for cooking! To boil water, prepare food in different ways. Manna fell from the sky and the Israelites perhaps ate it as is, or boiled it, made it into bread, they probably roasted goats or lambs from the flocks, heated ovens for “Manna flatbread” It was a task and a half to start and maintain a fire, cooking, preparing and all that. So, YHVH is saying STOP! just for the Sabbath, and take a break from it all. Stop slaving over the hot stove and rest, prepare something on Friday, that is why HE gave a “double-portion” of Manna on Friday.


Today, how can we put that “mitzvah” into good use without “overdoing it” as some Jewish sects do, not, turning on a light switch, not driving a car, etc. Well, to start, we can prepare meals for Saturday on Friday, and on the Sabbath, just heat them up. Another idea, eat something light like salad and sandwiches. Many churches and synagogues have the custom of eating out or eating “in”. Some Jewish synagogues have “Oneg” a lunch prepared for the members and guests after service. Some church Sunday school classes go out to eat as families after services on Sundays. Why not? Give the house-wife or house-husband a break from kitchen duty! Don’t they deserve it? Anyway, the Sabbath was made for man and woman, to “rest” and take it easy, and meditate on YHVH.


The rest of these two Parashot have to do with the Tabernacle. The order to build it, to take up an offering of materials, to assign workers, to “build it” to “put it all together” and finally, to invite YHVH to come down and dwell in it, which he DID, at the close of the book of Exodus. So, go ahead and read the chapters. How can we look at this in light of our lives as born-again believers in Messiah Yeshua?


The “tabernacle” today is YHVH’s dwelling place which is each and every “Kehilah” (congregation) where born-again believers meet to worship the LORD, singing praises and teaching his WORD. The tabernacle is also the bodies of all believers, with the Ruach HaKodesh dwelling inside of us! YHVH has given each and every believer some gift and talent to “maintain” the “Mishkan of Believers” as YHVH chose different individuals to build the furniture of the Mishkan, so HE has selected different believers with different talents to maintain the Kehilah.


The root word of “Mishkan” are the letters SH+K+N, (Shaken) meaning to “dwell with” or one could say “to live among” This is the Hebrew word for “Tabernacle” (Mishkan). If we are to look at this word from an ancient Hebraic view, the letters would be “Sheen” (the all-consuming fire) “Kaph” (anointing), and “Nun” (life). We can see the symbolism in these three letters; “The All-consuming fire (Adonai) wants to anoint the lives (of all believers) through HIS presence and ministry of teaching from his Torah, through his chosen teachers, preachers, rabbis, etc. He inhabited the Tabernacle with HIS divine presence and ministered to the People of Israel through the Levites and the priests.


When we look at the gematria for the letters “Sheen” “kaph” and “Nun” we get 300+20+50 = 370. We can look at this sum through symbolism seeing; Elohim (300) who is perfect (7) is eternal (0). 3+7+0=10. 10 is the number of the Law (Torah) His Word is Perfect, for all eternity.


so, what does every article of tabernacle furniture symbolize in a relationship with Yeshua and believers?
1. The Mishkan itself with the curtains, poles, staves, etc. = A “fence” to keep holiness in and ungodliness out!


Once inside, you are in the holy place, where YHVH dwells, and where the priests minister. Our Kehilot are “holy places” where the LORD dwells and where we join for fellowship with other believers.


2. “Aron HaKodesh” (The Ark of the Covenant) the “heart” of the Mishkan, where the tablets of the commandments are kept, together with a pot of Manna, and Aron’s rod. It symbolizes the believer who “should” shine like “gold” both inwardly as well as outwardly. We should be mindful of the commandments to put them into action as “unto good works” Yeshua is our “Manna” the “Bread of Life” and the Rod of Aron as our “Rod of authority, our high priesthood of believers” the “Shekinah glory” which rested above the mercy seat is the everlasting presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.


3. “The Table of Incense” it symbolizes our prayers as they go up “like smoke” unto the heavenlies, even to the Throne of Grace. One thing to point out, all the furniture with the exception of the Menorah, was made of Acacia wood overlaid with gold, the wood symbolizes the humanity of Yeshua, and the gold “purity”. The incense was made of various ingredients but making an exact replica of the original substance is forbidden, most worshippers today that use incense use a mixture of Frankincense and Myrrh, which is readily available. It is a relaxing aroma that helps one to go to sleep at night.


4. “The Golden Menorah” was made of one solid piece of gold, hammered and formed into a seven-branch candlestick. It had seven lamps which were filled with olive oil and burned all night. In the morning, the priest would come into the Holy Place and trim the wicks and re-fill the lamps with olive oil. We look at the Menorah as “Yeshua Ha-Or Olam” (Yeshua who is the light of the world, the Eternal Light) we are the 6 branches that are on either side of the “Shamash” the helper lamp which is in the middle, Yeshua said, “Ye are the light of the world” that means “every believer is a light in dark places” but our light comes from Yeshua” we have no light of our own, like the moon, moonlight is sunlight reflected off the lunar surface. The oil symbolizes the Ruach Ha Kodesh, (The Holy Spirit) and the wicks are “us” we need to be in contact with the “oil” in order to have brightness.


5. “The Table of Shewbread” made of hardwood overlaid with gold. Had 12 loaves of bread, symbolizing the 12 tribes of Israel. The table and bread symbolize “Yeshua HaLechem Chayim” (Yeshua the Bread of Life)


Even the “unleavened bread” of Passover which symbolizes “Yeshua” who is the unleavened bread”


6. Outside the holy place are two items, the bronze laver, and the Brazen Altar. The bronze laver was a huge bronze bowl filled with water. The priests would wash their hands and feet after offering blood sacrifices. It was made of bronze which symbolizes “judgment” when the water was still, the priest would see his reflection in the water. When we look in still water, or in a mirror, we see our reflection, we see who we are, sinners saved by grace, yet we still have the sin nature, and Yeshua went through “judgment” in our place, we have been “washed” in his blood and made clean. Remember that Yeshua washed the feet of his talmidim.


7. “the Bronze Altar” (Mizbeach) (pronunciation = “ach” like Johann Sebastian Bach) not “beach” which is by the ocean, NO! was made of hardwood overlaid with bronze, symbolizing the humanity of Yeshua who was judged in the “fires of our sin”. The animal sacrifices were performed on this altar, the blood was poured out at the base of the altar and the animals roasted on a grill. Think of the Mizbeach as a big BBQ pit. The brazen altar symbolizes the cross of Messiah Yeshua, the animals symbolizing Yeshua himself who poured out his blood for us sinners, who incurred “our judgment” in his own body.


We see the materials that went into building the tabernacle; gold, silver, bronze, fine linen, wood, blue, purple, scarlet, and animal skins, They all have symbolic meanings; Gold=purity (of Messiah) and the goal of every follower of Mashiach, Silver=redemption (Yeshua redeemed us from the curse of sin) bronze=Judgment (Yeshua was judged for our sins, Fine linen= our new nature and our walk with the LORD, wood=Humanity of Messiah


Blue=Heaven, Purple=Royalty, (we are royalty in Messiah Yeshua, part of his royal family) Scarlet=blood. Animal skins=the covering of our sins before, but now, our sins have been erased, not just covered.


At the end of Exodus, in 40:38 it says that YHVH settled upon the Mishkan in a cloud. Now his presence is visible. Messiah is still with us in the form of the Holy Spirit, WE are the living Tabernacles and the Spirit of God lives in our heart, as well as within the “Kehilot” of believers who come together for worship. There is much more to say, but I better end here, or I’ll be here all night and it is already past midnight.


1 KINGS 7:51-8:21


We see here a repetition of the same building project but on a larger scale. Solomon builds the first “Temple” for the presence of YHVH. Wherein the tabernacle was a mobile structure (kinda like a mobile home) the Temple was a fixed place. He employed thousands of workers, so there wasn’t much unemployment in Israel during that time. It took many years to build whereas the tabernacle was finished in a matter of months.


It takes time to build a ministry, many years sometimes. But if the goal is to share/teach the Word of God to others, to minister HIS word, then the LORD will bless that work, no matter how small or how big, whether a “mobile” ministry or a “fixed-in-one-place ministry, Adonai will bless and it will last.


MARK 9:1-50; 10:1-52


Yeshua takes his three chosen disciples; Kefa, Jacob, and Yochanan (Peter, James, and John) to witness a special event. We know this as the “Transfiguration.” They went up a mountain and the clothing of Yeshua was transformed into dazzling white. He then talked with Moshe and Eliyahu. The scripture does not say what they talked about. We can only imagine. Perhaps, it was the following;


Moses represents the Torah, (the first 5 books) and Elijah, the Prophets and writings, and Yeshua, the New Covenant. Altogether, we have the complete Torah, the Complete Word of God! Perhaps Yeshua told the two how He was the one that they wrote about and how all of their prophecies would be complete in HIM. Well, that is just an idea. What do you think they talked about if not that?


In Mark 10, Yeshua teaches on divorce. This is a big subject, and a sad subject because many couples do not take marriage seriously anymore. “Love” is a “commitment” it is a “conscious choice” to care for a person, it has nothing to do with “feelings”, yet “feelings” can lead two people together in order to “make a “love” commitment”


Divorce was allowed out of the “hardness of man’s heart” in biblical times, it was instituted by the man, never the woman, all is different now, get tired of your mate? Bored? Run to the lawyer and get a divorce, look for a new mate, someone more exciting and fuller of life. This is the mentality of the world, but not the mentality of God. The only biblical reason for allowing divorce is adultery, and for unbelief, if there is a mixed marriage and the unbeliever refuses to live with the believer, “let him (or her) depart” for we are not called to strife. All the more reason to be “equally yoked together, believers with other believers” Personally, divorce should be the last choice if one is living in a “hell hole” and the mate is an “unholy terror” but let’s not even go there now, we need to lift up our mates in prayer and pray for understanding one with the other. We are all different, and our mates complement our weaknesses, and through our mates, our weaknesses become “strong”


Rabbi Ben Avraham ]]>
Bible Chat Yakov https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280292-Ready-to-build-God-s-House!-EX-35-1-38-20
<![CDATA[What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?]]> https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280182-What-is-the-quot-Abomination-of-Desolation-quot?goto=newpost Sat, 02 Mar 2019 04:49:50 GMT We see this verse in Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

"27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Christ refers to it in Matthew 24:15(KJV)

"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

The Jewish Rabbis have pushed the view that it was when in 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem.

But it doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, not backwards, and the Jewish nation continued along with the sacrifices as we see at the beginning of Matthew 24 as Jesus was telling the disciples what was going to happen:

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So lets start with what was this desolation that would befall them?



desolation


  • a state of complete emptiness or destruction.
    "the stony desolation of the desert"
    synonyms: barrenness, bleakness, starkness, bareness, dismalness, grimness; Morearidity, sterility;
    wildness;
    isolation, solitude, solitariness, loneliness, remoteness
    "the arid, stony desolation of the Gobi desert"



    antonyms: fertility



    • anguished misery or loneliness.
      "in choked desolation, she watched him leave"
      synonyms: misery, sadness, unhappiness, melancholy, gloom, gloominess, glumness, despondency, sorrow, depression, grief, mournfulness, woe; More






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Bible Chat hobie https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280182-What-is-the-quot-Abomination-of-Desolation-quot
Is salvation possible after death? https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280138-Is-salvation-possible-after-death?goto=newpost Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:40:22 GMT When do you see this happening? *Isaiah 45:23 *I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. *Philippians 2:10* That at... When do you see this happening?


Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


Why I am asking is this...I mean when this happens are those still thrown into the LoF?


Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Is this to you talking after death...that souls will see the light?


Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.


Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.


I realize this is a lot of questions but they all tie together...I am a believer in “all things are possible with God”. So the reason I am asking is are we being told in scriptures...that hell could be a penalty and that it is possible to pay that debt....see the light after death...and still be saved? What are your thoughts on what I laid out?


Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. ]]>
Bible Chat kyCyd https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280138-Is-salvation-possible-after-death
What will we look like? https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280092-What-will-we-look-like?goto=newpost Thu, 28 Feb 2019 02:34:52 GMT It's been of interest to me for some time, but I'm not sure the Bible gives us any clear answers. My own belief is that Jesus was raised from the dead in his old body, essentially *healed* from death. This means he did not yet have his "glorified body." I believe the body we will all receive, as saints, is a glorified body, just as Jesus has now received a glorified body.

When Jesus ascended into heaven he scrapped his physical, resurrected body for a new glorified body. And I'm not sure anybody really knows what this looks like? In the book of Revelation he appears in highly symbolic form, with a sword coming out of his mouth, bronze feet, etc. His face shown like the sun. This is pure symbolism, but may give us a hint at what a glorified body looks like.

So today, I have to assume that the *only* glorified body in existence is Jesus' own body. People have been raised from the dead, but only Jesus has a glorified body. My question, therefore, is: Do you have a sense of what a glorified body will look like? Will it be physical? Will it have similar properties to what we have today? Will it be designed for work? Will it be designed to operate on a physical earth, such as we have today?

I also have questions about what the New Earth will look like? I believe that unless the New Earth looks somewhat like the current earth, it can hardly be called an "earth" at all? It surely must have dirt and rock on it, along with bodies of water?

And if so, surely our bodies will be designed to interact with this environment, and to produce work that brings happiness both to God and to ourselves?

What do you think? Will we be energy stars, or will we have corporeal bodies? Will the earth be made of dirt, air, and water, or will it all be other-dimensional, and beyond the scope of human language to describe, except by symbolism? Thank you! ]]>
Bible Chat randyk https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280092-What-will-we-look-like
Knowing the severity and kindness of the Lord... https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280080-Knowing-the-severity-and-kindness-of-the-Lord?goto=newpost Wed, 27 Feb 2019 04:02:08 GMT This hasn't been fully developed yet, but it has been a very interesting study for me. We all know the verse where Paul talks about coming to Corinth in fear and trembling and also about the verse where Paul talks about "knowing the severity and kindness of God"... But just in case, here they are.

Romans 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

and

1 Cor. 2:3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. 4 And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

There's a ton of passages on the fear of the Lord. But the Lord has begun sharing with me something new to me. Well, I was reading in Isaiah 61....

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me,
Because the Lord has anointed me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives,
And freedom to prisoners;
2 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To grant those who mourn in Zion,
Giving them a garland instead of ashes,
The oil of gladness instead of mourning,
The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting.
So they will be called oaks of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

A couple of things, stuck out to me.

1. Notice the progession... 1st) PReach the gospel to the poor, 2nd) to bind up the broken hearted, and 3rd) to proclaim liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners.

This is speaking of the Jubilee year that will happen to Israel after they have been sent into captivity. But it is also the same for us when we experience the Jubilee year as Jesus taught it in Luke 4. Salvation first, healing 2nd then deliverance from captivity. But what is interesting to me, is that for God to set Israel free, He had to bring judgment on Israel's enemies. And for the first time, I realized that the "day of vengeance of our God" was talking about setting us free from captivity to strongholds, or bondage just as, in context, it was speaking about setting Israel free from their captives and that God would take vengeance upon their captors. (See 2 Cor. 10:6 for a similar thought.)

Now, that led me to Isaiah 63 which is STRONG! (And yes, I know God is physically talking about Israel's physical enemies, the nations that held her. But He is also speaking about our enemies that spiritually hold us captive.)

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is satiated in heaven,
Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom,
And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction.
6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,
It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah,
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.
7 Wild oxen shall also fall with them,
And young bulls with strong ones;
Thus their land shall be soaked with blood,
And their dust become greasy with fat.
8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Notice the sword was satiated with the blood of bulls, and goats and fat. This is our sin sacrifice. This is Jesus. There were only a few scars left on Jesus. The marks of the covenant in his hands, and the scar of the sword on his side were two. The government appointed to wield the sword of the wrath of God, stuck Jesus in the side with a sword. That covered it with blood. This bloody sword as a type in heaven, is the same sword of wrath that God uses to come after our spiritual enemies. When King Jesus comes with His sword, covered in blood, it is covered in His own blood. That is salvation to us but death to the enemy.

We see then the very wrath of God that came upon Christ, is the same wrath that saves us from our sins and our spiritual enemies. It is like the Ark. The wrath of God fell on the Ark for all who were in the Ark. But for those on the outside, the wrath of God fell on them! It is like the passover in Egypt. The blood covered the door frame. All who had the blood over them and the Lamb in them were protected from the wrath of God that was juding the enemy. But for those without the blood fo the Lamb, they got judgment.

For me, it is so encouraging and empowering to see both the love of God, in that He did not come to condemn me but to save me. And the severity (wrath) of God which we are all under unless we repent and turn to Him. But His heart is to see us saved, not destroyed. And for this reason, we should have gratitude and love for Him but also fear and respect for Him.

God bless!

Mark ]]>
Bible Chat Brother Mark https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/280080-Knowing-the-severity-and-kindness-of-the-Lord