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Are Some People Beyond The Scope Of Help?

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  • Are Some People Beyond The Scope Of Help?

    Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
    no amount of convincing will shake them

    My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

    Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
    sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
    others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

    Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
    immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

    I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
    matter who we 'elect' as president

    Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?
    -Slade-

  • #2
    Originally posted by Chris In O.C. View Post
    Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
    no amount of convincing will shake them

    My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

    Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
    sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
    others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

    Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
    immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

    I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
    matter who we 'elect' as president

    Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?
    I guess this goes both ways though, you value your opinion - and she values hers on such subjects. There are certain aspects of the word that are salvific, and other parts that are not. I wouldn't worry about you or her engaging in long winded discussions regarding revelations that don't relate to salvation. Jesus essentially stated to just "be prepared" so as long as she, you, and everyone else is doing what they are supposed to be doing, there is really not much to worry about.

    In Christ,

    Stephen

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chris In O.C. View Post
      Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
      no amount of convincing will shake them

      My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

      Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
      sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
      others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

      Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
      immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

      I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
      matter who we 'elect' as president

      Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?
      The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.
      ----------------------------------------------
      When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
        The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.
        Christian have to be very careful, the bible says that the enemy will come as an angel of light, who we think best represents us may not.

        looking at the whole picture and not at just ONE issue would be best suggested to body of Christ so as not to be decieved
        It takes love to embrace those ones who are weak, and strength to endure the weakness, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
          The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.
          True, nations are judged by God, not just the individual citizens in the nation.

          There are people that rejected God for so long that God allows their heart to harden and they will no longer have the opportunity to be saved. There are many who are not predestined and will die in their sins.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Chris In O.C. View Post
            Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
            no amount of convincing will shake them

            My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

            Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
            sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
            others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

            Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
            immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

            I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
            matter who we 'elect' as president

            Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?
            My advice is that you directly use Scripture. Don't wave a full Bible in front of her. Instead, use a free online Bible program to print out the following two verses. The first one is for you, as it explains why only Scripture can get through to her. The second is for her because it explains that the "clock is ticking" and now is the time to turn to God.

            Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
            That was for you. This is for her:

            Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
            God's Truth transcends everything, including politics. People who don't repent now won't escape that Day of judgment.

            Hope this helps.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris In O.C. View Post
              Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
              no amount of convincing will shake them

              I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
              matter who we 'elect' as president

              Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?
              Have you shared the Gospel with her, or do you guys just argue politics and the endtimes?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by IBWatching View Post
                My advice is that you directly use Scripture. Don't wave a full Bible in front of her. Instead, use a free online Bible program to print out the following two verses. The first one is for you, as it explains why only Scripture can get through to her. The second is for her because it explains that the "clock is ticking" and now is the time to turn to God.

                Hope this helps.
                Thank you for the reply, I will certainly do that

                Reps on the way
                -Slade-

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm in a pretty similar situation to that described in the OP, both my parents are atheists and they (well only my father really, my mother is more the "god exists but all good people go to heaven" sort of person) are absolutedly convinced that religion is nothing but a cause of wars and some sort security for people too weak to cope with the "real world".

                  I've never tried to witness to them (though I'm still a fairly new Christian myself), I see enough from their attitudes that they are very set in their minds.

                  They are the classic pushy parents. They are full of pride, and they would have me be the same. It's like this pride completely clouds their mind against God's word. They are pretty conservative/right-wing, and they are absolutedly consumed with ideas of furthering themselves and their children. They are always talking against the "benefit culture" (I live in the UK), and are always talking of the importance of working to further yourself, because you must be competetive, you must have ambition for yourself.

                  Well I will take nothing to do with it. Heh I suppose some of my US-counterparts may understand my socialist views given the above paragraph.

                  Anyway I've come a little off topic, I just noticed the similarity with the OP's posts description of "neo-conservative" parents.

                  Since these people seem to be determined to think "logically" and insist on putting proof before faith, perhaps some clear Biblical prophecies which have come true would be ideal for getting through to them?
                  "I could not but smile out to God in praises,
                  in assurance of victory,
                  because God would by things that are not,
                  bring to naught things that are.
                  Of which I had great assurance, and God did it"
                  - Oliver Cromwell

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm in a pretty similar rut. After being saved last fall ('07), I kept my faith almost completely under wraps from my family (my family is Catholic) out of fear of causing a rift as a result of departing from the Catholic faith that was a large part of my family for generations. As the months went by I became more open about my faith, and, unfortunately, there has been some tension as a result much to my dismay, there have been moments where I've clashed with my family about how the RCC is teaching a perverted, false gospel. I have seen some glimmers of hope as of recently, I just hope and pray that God will open their eyes.
                    USSA-The United Socialist States of America

                    Without Jesus, eternity is a living Hell, literally.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      God and Politics

                      I am listening to a discussion about the difficulty of witnessing to "right-wing" and neo-conservative" parents about Christ---here's a thought: Jesus was determinedly non-politic. He ignored both the Jewish leadership (right wing) and the political radicals (left wing) while He went about doing His Father's business: "So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord); but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does is what the Son does in the same way [in His turn]. (John 5:19)

                      The right wing Pharisees we may feel we know a lot about; but the left wing showed up in scripture as well when we hear that many thought Jesus had come to over throw the government of Rome. Taxes were a strong touch point for the people who wanted to overthrow Rome. Jesus responds to this subject at one point by telling Peter to "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Luke 20:25) In saying to give to Caesar what is his, and God what is God's, Jesus was delineating our priorities in our world. We are not to focus on the world's choices of important subjects (politics) but God's goals (sharing the truth of His Son to a lost world). God is able to work out the details for us as our Protector and Provider if we set our hearts on Him. (Colossians 3:1 and others)

                      Slavery is not a state created in love, yet the Word does not denounce slavery directly, which is a political choice of the world, the Word denounces unloving treatment of our fellow man. (Philemon and others)

                      Let the Holy Spirit fire your witness to all you are called and love! Act in submissive love to those you wish to show the Christ and avoid argument or debate of the world's issues. Focus on the Truth of our God in love and He will cause your words to be convincing.

                      Matthew 5:17 says "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your moral excellence and your praiseworthy, noble, and good deeds and recognize and honor and praise and glorify your Father Who is in heaven."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Are Some People Beyond The Scope Of Help?
                        I wonder what the followers of Christ thought of the man called Saul. How mony thought in their wildest imaginations that he would become Paul, a might man of God and Christ.

                        As to your other question, the hardest example I have run up against was a son lost to drugs Ė using and dealing. Almost everyone had given up on him, there was no hope for him. I claim no credit whatsoever for what happened but through it all, regardless of the appearances and the difficulties, I held to the faith that he was not lost, that there was hope that a miracle was possible. Yes, I had to look beyond a ton of stuff that was happening, but thatís a vital part of faith. This last week, instead of being out dealing or something worse, he attended a ministerís conference in Washington DC. He is now a pastor, husband, father and Ö no matter how clearly impossible things seem, there is a way and sometimes the only thing available for us to do is to hold steadfast in our faith that Godís Will will be done.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          To us, some people are beyond help, but not to the LORD.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            What DadBurnett and Joe King said. I am always amazed and tickled by how God gets ahold of the unlikeliest prospects and makes sold out Christians of them. The best you can do is show the love of Christ to them and pray for them. Witnessing, in my opinion, should focus on the fundamentals of sin and redemption rather than discussions of end times scenarios or, for instance, whether smoking is a sin. Those discussions should probably come after conversion.

                            There's a guy at work right now who, when we were both in the clerk craft, I never would have envisioned him as a Christian. Fast forward a few years: he recently joined me in the maintenance craft and goes around saying "Praise the Lord!" and singing snatches of worship songs. I didn't see THAT one coming.

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                            • #15
                              Actually, I am going to play "devil's" advocate and say yes.

                              Mark 3:29-30
                              But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." 30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."


                              I don't claim I fully understand this verse; I don't want to start a debate on that. But if we put it into context, there were people saying Jesus was possessed by Baalzebub and driving out demons that way. It seems that there indeed were people whom Jesus "wrote off". Does that mean there are people we are to write off? I don't know. Let alone if we are to judge who they are.

                              I do know, though, that Jesus told us to plant our seeds on fertile ground. There's a difference between judging and using sound judgement. We should use sound judgement as to what constitutes fertile ground. Absent a clear calling from the Lord, of course (which does happen--look at Peter and Cornelius). But that works both ways, too--in Acts we see a clear calling NOT to go to certain places as well. And we are told to "dust our sandals off" at times.

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