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Show Me The Money? [Prosperity Doctrine]...

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  • Discussion Show Me The Money? [Prosperity Doctrine]...

    Malachi 3: 1 0
    ...Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there might be meat in My house, and try Me now in this says the Lord of hosts, If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.

    When someone is bring forth the Word of God, we, as God’s children need “discernment” in listening to the Word that is brought forth, as well as “knowledge” of scripture.

    Discernment: knowing the "spirit" behind a thing, whether it is the Lord, the devil, or "flesh".

    Peter had a direct revelation from God, (Matt. 16:16-19), but a few verses later he error greatly by making a statement that wasn't even in his flesh, but directly from Satan because it was a directly against the will and plan of God, (verses 21-23). We can be very spiritual, however if we are speaking, and teaching things that are not scripturally correct, [according to the FULL gospel-rightly dividing the Word of Truth], then we error.


    (Before I go any further, let me tell you what this is NOT about. I am not saying you should not pay tithes, because the Bible says let every person be fully persuaded in their OWN minds...Romans 14: 5, (in whatever you do), and I John 3: 20-21 reads...if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts... If you feel that tithing is a New Testament practice, then "Amen". Also, we should always give offerings, and not just in church).

    Also, if you are in a church which believes in "tithing", and you are a member of that church, you should tithe because the Bible says... obey them that have rule over you...Hebrews 13: 17.

    What I want to talk about is the abuse of collecting tithes, and to put "giving" back in it's proper prospective. So, let's continue...)

    The "fleecing of the flock", the "merchandising of the gospel", the "franchising of the gifts", "the prostituting" of my Jesus.


    If you read Malachi chapters 2, and 3...you will see the Lord wasn't talking to the people, He was talking to the priest, who were not doing with the "tithes" what He intended.

    ­
    The Vision, which the Lord gave to me:
    I saw a shepherd shearing a sheep for wool, but he was cutting so deeply with the shaver that he drew blood, and the wool couldn't grow back, wouldn’t replenish it self. The Lord said the leaders were like that, taking too much from the people, so much so, that they were depleted to the point where they couldn't replenish.

    The Lord also told me the "tithe" had become the foundation of the church, an idol, and this was never meant to be so, Christ is the only foundation of the church. Everything is about "giving" to the church, and "getting" a return, and this process has become our "god".

    Let's look at Malachi 3:10, again. As I was reading this verse, the Lord told me to look up for words in their original language:
    *Storehouse-depository, cellar, storage place, to store up.
    *Meat- fresh leaf, supply with food/feed/provisions.
    *Windows-as in lurking, to lie in wait, ambush: (which means a surprise attack from a concealed position).
    *Blessing-prosperity, benefit, abundance, altogether.

    So this is how this scripture could read...

    "Bring ye all the tithes, (a tenth), into the (depository/storage place) that there might be (provisions/supply) in My house, and prove, (investigate or examine), Me NOW, that I might open the (ambush/surprise in a concealed position/something lying in wait) of heaven and pour you out a (benefit/abundance/prosperity) that you might not have room enough to receive it. AWESOME! So the Lord is promising to "ambush" you with a blessing, and it could be prosperity because a "benefit" is whatever you may need, at the time. Bless God!
    "'

    First of all, the tithes is the Lord's: Deut. 14: 22-26, Lev.26: 30, Malachi 3: 8-10, so He has the right to designate where they go, and what they are for.

    Why did the Lord institute the paying of the tithe? First to care for the "workers in the Tabernacle". Let me explain...


    The Lord had 12 Tribes of Israel when He brought them out of Egypt, (Genesis 49: 1-28) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
    When the Lord set the tribes toward the "promised land", He separated the tribe of Levi unto Himself to be priest to care for the Tabenacle. The He took the tribe of Joseph, and divided it into two (2) tribes named after Joseph's sons, (Ephraim and Manassah), to make up once again the twelve (12) tribes, Numbers 26: 28-37). (Twelve (12) is the Lord's number of government).

    Moses, along with Aaron and his 4 sons, (Ex 28: 1,41), which made up the Aaronic Priesthood, and the remaining tribe of Levi, (Numbers 18:2-6), was to make up the Levitical Priesthood, and was given to the Aaronic as a gift for the work of the tabernacle, (Numbers 18: 2-3, 6).

    Look at Numbers 18...the Lord gave the offerings to the Aaronic Priesthood, (Numbers 18:8-9), and He gave the Levitical Priesthood all the tithes, (Numbers 18:21), for "salary", and for distribution by them as the Lord saw fit. Then the distribution went as follows, in Numbers 18:27, a tenth of the tithe was to be a heave offering, and was to be given to Aaron, and his sons. Then in Deut. 14: 28-29, and Deut. 26: 12-13, the Lord list who else gets the tithes; the stranger, the fatherless, the widow, and the poor, they were not to be forgotten because that was a transgression.

    So Aaron and His sons were established leadership in the tabernacle, (Ex. 28: 1,41), with no portion in the land because the Lord was their portion, and they were provided for through offerings...by reason of the anointing, (Numbers 18: 8-14).

    But what did the rest of these Levites do in the tabernacle? They were the ones who took physical care of the tabernacle and all the furnishings, II Chron. 5:5, (maintenance/housekeeping, etc). The singers, worship leaders, and musicians, (II Chron. 5: 12). The gatekeepers, (II Chron. 8: 14), and those that distributed treasures, (II Chron. 8: 15). So, lets translate this to the New Testament.


    Generally, we know the Aaronic Priesthood is the Five-fold ministry, (Ephesians 4; 7-11), but we are never taught who the remainder of the Levitical Priesthood translate to.

    These are the worship leaders, the choirs, the ushers, greeters, hostesses, and the deacons, (Acts 6:1-3). Anyone putting their time and talents, (consistently), in the work of the House of the Lord should be getting a wage from the tithes. (The people who keep the church clean and polished, take care of the furniture, bathrooms, etc., the musicans, the office staff, for the most part, these people are given wages).

    Matthew 10:10 reads...a workman is worthy of his hire, and I Tim. 5:18 reads...do not muzzle the ox... and we have taken those scriptures to only mean the Reverend/Dr., the Pastor, and the Bishop, but this is not so.

    Leadership looks at everyone else as volunteers, "untapped resources" to be used as labor for free, (and I have heard this first hand in some churches). James 5: 1-6 speaks regarding this, especially verse 4...the wages of the laborers in YOUR house, which you have kept back by fraud, cry out and the cries of the reaper have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, (armies, one who fights).

    Then there is the stranger, (those outside of your local assembly), the fatherless, (irregardless of how they got that way), the widows, (single parents in need), and the poor.

    Now some will say that's Old Testament, but where is Malachi coming from? Where are most of the scriptures coming from that are used to compel us to give, especially excessively to our leaders? If you tell us to pay tithes, and offerings, according to Old Testament scriptures, then they do what should be done with the tithes we pay, according to Old Testament scriptures.

    Then some will say, "how is the ministry to be supported, the spreading of the Gospel"? First, through offerings, Jesus said so in Matt. 10:8-15, Mark 6:7-11, Luke 9:3-6/10:2-12 and 22: 26, and by faith, Luke 22: 35, the same faith they teach us to exercise, then you exercise it, also. Your evangelizing is to be supported by your faith, and offerings, (and that's New Testament).

    Then employment, Paul traveled, but he also worked where he ministered, (Acts 18:3, Acts 20:33-35, and I Cor. 11:9/12: 14).

    The Apostles didn't have at lot of "things", but they had a whole lot of "POWER" from God...Acts 3:6-8.

    Hold on, now, because this ride is about to really get rough...

    To be con't...
    "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

  • #2
    The Prosperity Doctrine...

    Con't...

    Tithing is Old Testament, in the New Testament, the Lord doesn't require 10%, but whatever we are led to give by Him, (Read Acts 44: 44-47, and Acts 5:1-11). We deal with the lust of the flesh, and sometimes with the lust of the eyes, (although we don't apply that scripture to our desire for a larger membership), but we never deal with the pride of life, (I John 2:16).

    Now let me clarify right here, there would be nothing wrong with large numbers, if people were being prepared and sent out into the ministries the Lord ordained for them to do, (Luke 9:1-2).

    The Lord never intended for us to "stockpile" saints, or for our churches to be "storage barns" for the children of God.

    We discourage people from leaving our churches, then boast of the numbers we have, but David got in trouble for numbering God's people, (I Chron. 12:1-17), because it was not to put them in order, (purpose), or to battle, (destiny).

    The sad thing is that our buildings are getting bigger and bigger, and less and
    less people are prepared for true ministry, or know what they are called to do, anddoing it.
    Our evangelism is at a all time low, while we have membership drives. Then we just shift members, and our church doors are revolving doors because those that do get saved, don't stay, (and you can't keep blaming it on rebellion).
    "--"
    Do you actually think Jesus actually wants us to continue building bigger buildings while His people, who He purchased with His blood, go lacking. And you justify yourselves by saying, "we give them the Word, and teach them principles", look at Luke 6: 34-35, Luke 9: 12-13...(Jesus said...YOU give them something to eat, Luke 14: 12-14.

    Look at James 2: 14-16...if a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one says to them depart in peace, be warmed and filled, (I will speak a word over you, pray, etc), but do not give them the things needful for the body, what does it profit?..and I John 3: 16-18...whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God dwell in him?


    But there was one scripture that messed me up totally, Deut. 15: 7­-11.

    Preachers always say, "the poor you have with you always", (Mark 14: 7), as though helping them is some futile effort that we have to tolerate until Jesus comes, but that is not what Jesus meant when He said it.

    The "poor" was to be an continual obligation for His people to care about, and Deut. 15: 7-11 clarifies this, because it is the "poor" that is to partake of the tithes...you shall not harden your heart against that poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend to him, (and not expect to get it back­…(Luke 6: 34), sufficient to his need, whatever he needs. Beware lest there be a wicked thought in your heart and you give him nothing...you shall surely give to him because for this thing the Lord your God will bless you...for the poor will never cease from the land, therefore I COMMAND YOU...you shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor, and your needy.

    When 1 read this, 1 wept, my first thought was, "we are in trouble".

    We are so concern about our buildings, and boast of the size of our churches. We are at the point where we judge success by how large the membership is, and how grand our churches are, but so did the religious leaders of Jesus day. Well, guess how Jesus felt about their "grand" buildings, how he felt looking at their manmade structures, read Mark 13: 1-2, and Luke 21: 5-6.

    We will quote scripture regarding David and Soloman building God a house, and how the people gave their best into it. And membership will rush to give hundreds, thousands, and in some ministries even millions, to build, (sometimes another buliding), but don't let a brother or sister need a ride, a meal, or a bill paid, because then "they" are trying to use you for your money.

    Do you not know that WE are the building of God, the Lord no longer requires a building, because we are it, (Acts 17: 22-25, 29, 30). The building is not the church, WE ARE THE CHURCH! This was the one of the first things I learned when I got saved, the church is a BODY of baptized believers. We are the church, who meet in a sanctuary, to prepare to bring God's kingdom, (Hallelujah) !

    He dwells in us, (John 14: 23/17:23, Acts 7:47_50, I Cor. 3:9)...you are God's building, (II Cor. 6:16/13:5, Eph. 2: 19-22, Heb. 9:11/10:5, and I Peter 2:5...you are also living stones. And we disregard taking care of the people of God, building the spiritual building of God, to give all our time, talents, and treasures to manmade buildings, and we call this the "work of the Lord".

    Something is wrong with this picture. We give our old dented can goods, and our raggedy clothing to people, but according to scripture we should give our "best" to the "house" of the Lord.

    Then we are told to sacrifice, and Elijah is used as the example, but the Lord said he has never required for anyone to sacrifice to give to someone who had more than they did, (read I Kings 17: 8-16). Elijah had less than the widow. Also, Proverbs 22: 16 b states “if he who gives to the rich shall surely come to poverty”.

    It has been said to leave your money to the church, instead of your "drunk relatives", but the Bible says...a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children...Prov. 13: 22. II Cor. 12: 14 reads...for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. Those who tell you this, is there family provided for?

    Saints, I have told you over and over, you better search the scriptures for yourself, (John 5:39). In Acts 17:11, the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. At one time, the Lord said to me, "if the only way you know Me is through man, you are in trouble”.

    Lord Jesus left a mandate for His leadership in Mark 10:42-45, and a challenge to the wealthy in Christ in Mark 10:21. Ask yourself, in that situation, what would you do?

    There is an "abomination of desolation", (Daniel 11:31, Matt.24:15, Mark 13:14) a "detestable practice, or action that makes "ruined, devastated, wretched, or destitute, in God's house, (what if for the Gentiles, it is this...), John 2;13-16...Jesus went up...and He found in the temple those who sold...moneychangers...doing business...and He said...take these things away...Do not make My Father's house, a house of merchandise. Read Ezekiel chapter 34 when you get home.

    Because of the idealogies of the church, the church society has become a "caste system" of have's and have nots, when in Acts 2: 44-47...the people had ALL things in common...and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Maybe this is the real problem with our evangelism. (Matthew 6: 32-33)

    If tithing was so important, why is there is no recorded incident of Jesus paying tithes, [but it is recorded that he paid taxes], and when the Apostles were discussing what parts of the law Gentiles were to follow, tithing was not listed...Acts 15: 23-29.
    "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Paul admonished the brethren to help the poor and needy BRETHEREN in Jerusalem (he never admonished them to help those who were rejecting Christ).

      Jesus said,

      "I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; I was naked, and you did not clothe Me; I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me. Then they will also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You? Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me." (Mat.25: 43-45).

      I think the Lord has given those who belong to Him discernment about which direction they should channel their offerings - IMO, it's certainly not to the greedy teachers of false doctrine, or to anyone who teaches false doctrine - be he greedy or not. Tithing keeps the greedy and the teachers of false doctrine in the positions they hold.

      But it's also the dissatisfaction of many people with what the Lord has provided them with that causes them to be inclined to believe the faith-prosperity doctrines of the greedy. So the blind lead the blind.

      The Lord will show us where He wants us to channel our offerings - Bible societies which produce Bibles in the spoken languages of nations, and distribute them to the poor is one example among many.

      If a Pastor dedicates all his time to tending to the needs of the flock (how many do?) then I feel that he should be supported by the flock - or someone will have to provide him and his family with a place to stay, 3 meals a day, a car to get around, gas in the tank, money for food, groceries and utility bills, etc etc. To be fair, they should also pay for the Pastor and his family's vacation at least once a year, if he truly gives all his time to tending to the needs of the flock. I think it's much cheaper to tithe, in such a case!

      But what purpose is there in tithings and offerings in order to pay those who do nothing except prepare their sermons which are exceedingly based on their own, or the institution's truth/error mixture, and in order to pay for huge, expensive buildings and their maintenance, as well as the administraiton of the institution and the travelling expenses of the truth/error mixture-teachers when they attend synods and conferences?

      I'm prepared to tithe or give offerings toward the keep of the Pastor whose truly a full-time Pastor - but I'm not too sure about most of the churches of today - why give financial support to apostasy?

      Anyway, I think the Lord does give discernment to those who belong to Him regarding where they should channel their giving.

      ananias

      "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

      And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

      Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
      (Mat.23: 8-10)

      AND

      "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

      By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
      (Joh.13: 34-35)

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Lady Ashanti!.

        What Church do you go to?

        I completely agree with all you just said, God has been speaking this in my Spirit all day...

        Confirmation from the LORD

        Thank You

        and

        Thank You JESUS...

        Comment


        • #5
          Excellent!!! God bless

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JBailey View Post
            Hello Lady Ashanti!.

            What Church do you go to?

            I completely agree with all you just said, God has been speaking this in my Spirit all day...

            Confirmation from the LORD

            Thank You

            and

            Thank You JESUS...
            Since I came back to Austin, I have been looking for a church home however so many have been saturated with the prosperity doctrine that it has been very difficult to find one that just preaches Jesus, and Him crucified...smh!!!

            I just met a sister that wants me to visit her church, so I will. Where do you go?
            "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              its a heart condition

              Comment


              • #8
                I love your word on this subject (Prosperity) and agree that it is a big issue in the church and must be confronted. I know this is a thread purposely on Prosperity doctrine but want to say emphatically that this is but one of the areas the enemy has pulled the church into falsity and impotence. God is calling true believers to a new aggressive commitment to the purity of His word. You go!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Blessings to you!!!

                  Originally posted by mrsb View Post
                  I love your word on this subject (Prosperity) and agree that it is a big issue in the church and must be confronted. I know this is a thread purposely on Prosperity doctrine but want to say emphatically that this is but one of the areas the enemy has pulled the church into falsity and impotence. God is calling true believers to a new aggressive commitment to the purity of His word. You go!
                  I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

                  Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

                  2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

                  14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

                  Amen, in Jesus Name...
                  "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lady Ashanti View Post
                    I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

                    Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

                    2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

                    14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

                    Amen, in Jesus Name...

                    Welcome to Austin! I hope you like it here...
                    Last edited by Theophilus; Sep 11th 2008, 02:58 PM. Reason: Removed personal info

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lady Ashanti View Post
                      Since I came back to Austin, I have been looking for a church home however so many have been saturated with the prosperity doctrine that it has been very difficult to find one that just preaches Jesus, and Him crucified...smh!!!

                      I just met a sister that wants me to visit her church, so I will. Where do you go?

                      Me and a group of my friends, I like to call them Holy Rollers, meet monthly just to fellowship in the Lord. You should come some time. I don't know how to use private messenger (I may not have access to it) but I will give you my e-mail some how.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Amen, but with great love and commitment

                        I believe God is calling His children to discernment of leadership and "authorities". We must act in love by lovingly, consistently and strongly confronting false teaching. It will take courage to stand up to those in leadership positions, and surely, we must be certain we are not rebelling when we do so. Having said that, the scriptures are the plumb line that we must always follow. God in Christ has called us to relationship not man's legalism, even when it may have begun in truth.

                        It is always good to remember that when the Holy Spirit calls us to discernment and interaction, we are only responsible for our part, not what another's reaction is or will be. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't feel like failures or be angry (think Jonah). In the end times, it may be frustrating work, but we are still to answer the call in love and courage.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lady Ashanti View Post
                          I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

                          Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

                          2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

                          14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

                          Amen, in Jesus Name...
                          I agree with a lot of what you said. The prosperity doctrine kept my mom a financial victim for many years.

                          I'm on the fence when it comes to the tithe....I know it's not specifically mentioned in the NT, but you know most people want to know how much to give! I figure 10% is probably the LEAST

                          I believe that a full-time pastor should be supported by the local church. If he is serving the the biblical capacity of pastor and reaching the lost, then he should be supported:

                          "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." I Cor 9:14

                          Our pastor FAITHFULLY witnesses to anything with a pulse. He also invests many, many hours of bible study. He has written his own study bible and put over 50k hours into it. According to the bible, he is worthy of even more:

                          "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." I Tim 5:17

                          Because he has invested so much in time studying the scriptures for our sake, it would be a travesty to expect him to hold an outside job.

                          I do understand your frustration.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is so...

                            Originally posted by mrsb View Post
                            I believe God is calling His children to discernment of leadership and "authorities". We must act in love by lovingly, consistently and strongly confronting false teaching. It will take courage to stand up to those in leadership positions, and surely, we must be certain we are not rebelling when we do so. Having said that, the scriptures are the plumb line that we must always follow. God in Christ has called us to relationship not man's legalism, even when it may have begun in truth.

                            It is always good to remember that when the Holy Spirit calls us to discernment and interaction, we are only responsible for our part, not what another's reaction is or will be. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't feel like failures or be angry (think Jonah). In the end times, it may be frustrating work, but we are still to answer the call in love and courage.
                            I do not attend churches where I cannot submit, I refuse to go to hell from the pew, nor will I lead a rebellion in someone's church. I feel that the Lord has called that man/woman to shepherd that flock, and if he does it erroneously the the Lord will deal with Him...Ezekiel 34.

                            One does not have to point fingers at anyone, just teach/preach the truth, light will always expose darkness. This is what the Lord has commissioned of me...

                            I believe it is love [passion] that motivates people to want to see others delivered, but one can't do it for them. We can only prepare the meal, they have to want to "eat"...LOL!!! One plants, another waters, but it is GOD who gives the increase... Praise the Lord for Jesus!!!
                            Last edited by Lady Ashanti; Sep 12th 2008, 07:07 AM. Reason: typos
                            "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Love to!!!

                              Originally posted by JBailey View Post
                              Me and a group of my friends, I like to call them Holy Rollers, meet monthly just to fellowship in the Lord. You should come some time. I don't know how to use private messenger (I may not have access to it) but I will give you my e-mail some how.
                              I would love to, however it has to be male, and female. I would feel uncomfortable with just males, [and I cannot tell from your name if you are a brother, or a sister]...
                              "...For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict, or resist...Luke 21:15"...I am looking for the remnant....sigpic

                              Comment

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