Discussion Evangelism outside the church?

[clormond]

I am just wanting your thoughts on this?

The church has seemed to have encamped itself in the 4 walls of the building. I often have wondered why there is really no outside effort to evangelize the neighbors or the local community. I see allot of effort to help those over seas and to those that are in the mission fields, but what about home? Now I know we need those yet we also need to go next door, and down the street, and around the block. Is it not our job to spread the gospel or just sit in church and go home while not being bothered with anything outside the walls if it means we have to do something beside pray and give money..not looking for an attack but maybe if I could understand it I could influence others once I knew why..I have asked the question to others in person but seems as I get the "that's the pastors job"..Just wondering for your thoughts..

[spiritinaction]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

It seems to me that your approach to solving this problem could be improved. This is an approach appropriate to setting up a business plan for a secular business, we must search for the way God leads us.

We are dependent on the word and the Holy Spirit to find that way, but when we search the word we must keep God's overall plan in mind. Every understanding of every scripture must fit into God's overall plan, and to see that takes watching what scripture says in the entire bible.

At the very beginning, God say that evangelism didn't work for man became so taken up with evil that good couldn't come to them so God saved the world by getting rid of this death, there was the flood.

When Noah couldn't establish life and not death in the world, God created a small group of people to lead in showing evangelism. To do that, one of the main points was in sanctification--in separating themselves from the world of evil and show God by living it. They weren't told to go preach it, but to show it.

This theme of leaving all free to choose without judging them for their choice, but showing God is a theme all through scripture. We are to be sure that we let all people have access to knowledge of truth, we are to tell them about Christ, but show it, not push it inside our sanctified church. Whenever churches are illustrated in scripture, they are to be sanctified, kept clean from especially sexual sin. Scripture tells us this often. We are to be a light in the darkness in our church. Showing our love for each other is to be our evangelism.

[clormond]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

so how would I improve this problem? I completely understand the history, but I am talking about today in todays world. So is your suggestion to just wait till they come in?

[watchinginawe]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

I am just wanting your thoughts on this?

The church has seemed to have encamped itself in the 4 walls of the building. I often have wondered why there is really no outside effort to evangelize the neighbors or the local community.

What would this outside effort of local evangelizing look like? What is it that you see missing?

Often times foreign missions are concentrated around the building of a new local church. You already have that in your community, probably several.

Generally, churches label their efforts within the four walls as inreach and outside the four walls and into the community as outreach. Outreach can take at least two forms. One is to allow members to perform Christian service, where the outreach serves as a covert evangelistic purpose. The other is much the same but with an overt evangelistic purpose, a purposeful means of spreading the Gospel. Regardless, the idea is to build a gym and/or rec center, playground, have church programs such as a thrift store or food pantry, etc. These programs would constitute the outreach activities of the church, whether in covert or overt evangelism.

[spiritinaction]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

so how would I improve this problem? I completely understand the history, but I am talking about today in todays world. So is your suggestion to just wait till they come in?

I try so hard to get myself out of the entire picture and only see through the word! So I try so hard not to suggest, but report how I think scripture is telling us. I'm certainly not able to see with absolute clarity, I can only report how the best I can manage does.

I would say God principles never change. It is true we have to understand the world and culture of the people God was using to show us His principles to understand God, but the principles are the same. For an example when God said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, in the world that was spoken to it was God telling people to use justice. They would cut off a hand for a small theft. When we read it to say that back then God told you to take revenge, we aren't understanding.

I guess you would say that I think God gives two orders---be sure people know about Christ, and yes, show the beauty of living for Christ so well that you can wait for God to bring them in. Our job is only to support others in the church and love them. And to keep the church sanctified.

That is a huge job for us, and with the evil that has come to us by going away from listening to only God, it takes our entire heart, mind, and soul. Everything else in life would have to come second.

[Boo]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

Is it not the question for each of we to ask ourselves "What am I doing to reach into the world of the lost and show them my Jesus?

If our "reach" is simply to give money to the church, we are paying someone else to do our reaching.
If it is to just smile when you pass people by, do not the pagans also do that?
If it is simply be kind to the homeless, there are many lost people who do the same thing.

The difference for Christians is that they can give of money, smile to others, be kind to the poor, the sick, and the homeless AND share their Jesus.

We have managed to turn "reaching the lost" into "being nice people." That way, we eliminate the idea of sharing our Jesus.

So, then, we can be just like the non-believers and everyone will speak of how nice we are.

[clormond]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

Is it not the question for each of we to ask ourselves "What am I doing to reach into the world of the lost and show them my Jesus?

If our "reach" is simply to give money to the church, we are paying someone else to do our reaching.
If it is to just smile when you pass people by, do not the pagans also do that?
If it is simply be kind to the homeless, there are many lost people who do the same thing.

The difference for Christians is that they can give of money, smile to others, be kind to the poor, the sick, and the homeless AND share their Jesus.

We have managed to turn "reaching the lost" into "being nice people." That way, we eliminate the idea of sharing our Jesus.

So, then, we can be just like the non-believers and everyone will speak of how nice we are.

yes that's my point, what is it that we do different? why is it always "someone else will do it"..just don't understand what it is that keeps us from spreading the good news?

[SeekFirstTheKingdom]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

Your question is presented in a skewed view or even a false representation of the true church.

True Christians are the church. True Christians are evangelizing, and doing the will of the Father and Christ while being led by the Holy Spirit.

The book of Acts depicts the true church and serves as a modern playbook or hand-guide as to how the church moves/serves/operates, etc.

Don't expect the people who "go to church" to do the things that the real church does.

When you say "I don't understand what it is that keeps us fropm spreading the good news?", you're (most likely not on purpose) implying that "us" (the real Christians, the real church) aren't spreading the good news and or operating properly. That of course, is not the case and is not true.

Never confuse the real with the counterfeit and never expect the counterfeit to operate the way the real does.

The people you're noticing, who mainly attend a brick building and play church a couple times a week (or couple times a year), are deceived. They have a form of godliness but deny the power therein. Pray for them. God is faithful to draw His people out of said atmosphere, in His perfect time. Intercede for them in the meantime, and just focus on being the example or true representation of a Christian.

I feel you, though. Eccl 1:18.

[Boo]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

yes that's my point, what is it that we do different? why is it always "someone else will do it"..just don't understand what it is that keeps us from spreading the good news?

It is so tempting to get on my soapbox here, so excuse me while I wrestle with myself over things.

SFTK is correct, and it is even worse than what meets our eyes.

In many cases, our churches have become a business. People teach and preach those things that draw people in instead of what God has told us. Many attend a church because the church makes them feel good. There is abundant confusion in that process, because we think that our feeling good is a product of receiving the word. We don't see that there is a power on earth that wants us to be happy with our good feelings and to not seek Him who will save us.

Since we are attending a business that has become more of a social club than a place where God is worshiped and people are discipled, there is no growth on the part of those who wish to follow Jesus.

We are really good at excusing our lack of growth and our unwillingness to read our Bibles for ourselves. That preacher and that Sunday School teacher who read their notes and school books to us are the total effort we put into our growth. Then, while we remain infants in Christ, if indeed we ARE in Christ, we make claims that "the Holy Spirit will teach me" and "we are all a work in progress." Those two statements have become our Christian Cold Medicine. It removes the symptoms but produces no cure. God has freed us from sin so that we can walk in the light. Walk is a verb, and grow is an action. We tend to lack action as we avoid verbs.

The Christian world that confuses you may be a product of our business corporations - the local churches. The real church, the one that Jesus started, is still out there, but it is comparatively small when compared to how many attend a local church.

God, one day, will separate the sheep and the goats. Your question should be a goad for you to ensure that you are a sheep.

Work in the church that Jesus built, walk in His light, and strive to grow without excuses for your lack of growth. The frustration you are feeling is not one-of-a-kind. There are others who suffer the same feelings. Our mandate still stands, and our love is to be visible to all. MY guess is that, for most of us, it is more difficult to show love for those who profess to be our brothers and sisters (who remain infants) than it is for the lost. I think Jesus may be the same way:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Revelation 3:1-6 (ESV)

“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

Revelation 3:14-22 (ESV)

[clormond]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

boo,

not only that although I agree with all of what you said, but I feel that most of the sermons anymore are either bashing of the other religions or denominations or how we have to give to receive. I really don't know how we can be discussing a building fund till we build the body of the church. A vision for the future is all good but what about today..Case in point, I brought up to a group at a breakfast about the needs in the community and how we should help in our own neighborhood. My answer was that if they would come to church and learn the ways of the lord then we could help...Seems we have encamped our selves in the walls of the church..I have an old bible that was given to me that he used when going door to door asking if he could pray for people or introduce them to the gospel...what happened to that? guess im in my frustration faze and maybe I should start my own church.hheheeh..guess the days of the evangelist and the tent meetings are gone and before anyone tells me that, that was for that day and now now, save it..just seems that the church has become a place where we teach the ones who already know the answers yet complain about who is giving what and why they are wearing that..sorry for the rant..

[SeekFirstTheKingdom]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

boo,

not only that although I agree with all of what you said, but I feel that most of the sermons anymore are either bashing of the other religions or denominations or how we have to give to receive. I really don't know how we can be discussing a building fund till we build the body of the church. A vision for the future is all good but what about today..Case in point, I brought up to a group at a breakfast about the needs in the community and how we should help in our own neighborhood. My answer was that if they would come to church and learn the ways of the lord then we could help...Seems we have encamped our selves in the walls of the church..I have an old bible that was given to me that he used when going door to door asking if he could pray for people or introduce them to the gospel...what happened to that? guess im in my frustration faze and maybe I should start my own church.hheheeh..guess the days of the evangelist and the tent meetings are gone and before anyone tells me that, that was for that day and now now, save it..just seems that the church has become a place where we teach the ones who already know the answers yet complain about who is giving what and why they are wearing that..sorry for the rant..

That is the counterfeit church. It isn't Christianity, it's churchianity, cultural christians.

The real church can't "go to church' or "come to church" they are the church - a living organic thing (Christians being the body, Christ being the head).

Evangelism isn't dead, it won't ever be, you're just noticing that the counterfeit church doesn't do the things that the real church does.

I hear you on the rant, and I feel your frustration, though. I just want to make sure you "get it" - as it would be unreasonable for you to expect these fake christians to do the things real Christians do. Hense why Jesus said "come out of her, My people"

[clormond]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

Is there that many out there? I have been visiting churches seeking one that I would like to attend and this is what im finding. Am I being to critical?

I hear you on the rant, and I feel your frustration, though. I just want to make sure you "get it" - as it would be unreasonable for you to expect these fake christians to do the things real Christians do. Hense why Jesus said "come out of her, My people"

[clormond]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

from another post

landshark posted and I hope they don't mind if I use it here:

I think SOME people are called to "go out" and take the good news to places it has not been heard. But individually, I don't think that is the case. The Great Commission is not all in command form... "GO" is not a command, it is more like "as you go." What is in command form is "make disciples." So the essence of our walk and witness is like this, as I see it:

We are to live in a manner that allows the world around us to see God in us. His attributes like love, peace and joy, patience, long suffering, a willingness to extend mercy to those we might not even think are worthy of such... is what others should see in us because THAT is what we saw in HIM... we reflect Him. When we do, people will notice, we are as a city on a hill that cannot be hid. People will ask, and when they do, we are to teach. Not before, because when somebody is not seeking they will not find. When somebody is not asking questions, they will not hear answers. But when they see and then ask, teach. That is our responsibility as individuals. IMHO

this was so eye opening to me, could anyone further explain this to me? I believe that I may be seeing things through the wrong eyes or mind set.

[SeekFirstTheKingdom]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

Is there that many out there? I have been visiting churches seeking one that I would like to attend and this is what im finding. Am I being to critical?

The Greek word "ecclesia" is correctly defined as: "The called-out (ones)"

When you see in the scriptures the 'church of Ephesus' or something similar, it's not referring to a 4-walled building, but a region of believers/Christians (ecclesia). So, I live in the Niagara Region, if Paul was addressing believers in Niagara Region, he may have written to "the church of Niagara". See the difference? But if you come to Niagara Region, there are hundreds of church buildings (all diff denominations) which do not represent the true church. I hope you can see the difference there.

The REAL church (a group of true Christians) can meet up in a backyard, a basement, an attic, or anywhere else, and function in ministry and learning and operating in the gifts, and going out to evangelize or whatever else.

With that being said, not to complicate things...you can have a group of real Christians who meet in what you're referring to as "a church" building. It's just not the norm.

The key that you have to get first, is that you can't "go to church". You can't "go to yourself". What you're referring to as "church" isn't that. This concept is something that stuck, and was never reformed from in "the reformation" from the Catholic church (in the reformation era with Luther, and others). They reformed from some things, but the modern "church" that you're referring to and see all over, isn't scriptural.

The "five fold ministry" as it's known now from Ephesians 4, wasn't meant for instructing a bunch of people to go to a building and have a man with "the office of Pastor" to lord over everyone else with a "sermon" while everyone else sits there and listens. It was actually supposed to be a matter of the teachers/pastors/elders (the more mature in the things of Christ) to be pillars lifting up the babes in Christ and teaching them to operate in the ministry/gifts etc.

Jesus was the chief priest or chief apostle or pastor in His example on earth, and he washed the feet of His disciples who were under Him. He also taught them how to operate in ministry. You see that? Jesus set the example. But what do we see today instead? "pastors" of the "churches" that you're referring to, which are the counterfeit, you will see the pastor exalted almost, but it should be the opposite. The leaders are the shepherds, the foot-washers, the pillars to train up the sheep and to help them grow from babes to disciples.

A real ecclesia can happen in a modern "church" building. Some of those gatherings are for real. They look much different however than 1 man lording over others while everyone are spectators. The real deal you will see The Holy Spirit moving to heal (healing taking place), to deliver (deliverance taking place), people prophesying, MUCH PRAYER of intercession, of warfare, (not this 30 seconds of prayer at tithes and offer time). You will see people learning their roles and functions and gifts and everyone plays a role or a part, you could be the ear and I could be the elbow, your gifting ministers in this way, mine ministers in that way, etc.

Now, that is just an example, it's not set in stone every time the same. But people are all engaged as they are all PARTS of the body, Christ being the head.

No gathering is perfect, and Christ doesn't expect it to be. But the mainstream "church building" things of today aren't even close to the book of Acts church as Christ intended.

That is a basic summary of what things should look like. I have attended gatherings of this sort, some in the form of what you would think of as "home church" or "prayer meeting" etc. I've even seen it in the form of a "church" (building as you're referring to it in your posts) locally, who operate like this, led by the Spirit of God, not a set program of intro worship songs, offerings, sermon by one "Pastor" while everyone listens and doesn't do anything, closing 30 seconds of prayer, sing a song, go home". <-- that's not church in any sense other than counterfeit. Form of godliness, but deny the power there-in.

People will argue and cling to the fake church to the death and call me an idiot, but I'm just telling you straight up, and you can search the scriptures to see if it is so, as well as ask the LORD what's true.

[Boo]

Re: Evangelism outside the church?

from another post

landshark posted and I hope they don't mind if I use it here:

I think SOME people are called to "go out" and take the good news to places it has not been heard. But individually, I don't think that is the case. The Great Commission is not all in command form... "GO" is not a command, it is more like "as you go." What is in command form is "make disciples." So the essence of our walk and witness is like this, as I see it:

We are to live in a manner that allows the world around us to see God in us. His attributes like love, peace and joy, patience, long suffering, a willingness to extend mercy to those we might not even think are worthy of such... is what others should see in us because THAT is what we saw in HIM... we reflect Him. When we do, people will notice, we are as a city on a hill that cannot be hid. People will ask, and when they do, we are to teach. Not before, because when somebody is not seeking they will not find. When somebody is not asking questions, they will not hear answers. But when they see and then ask, teach. That is our responsibility as individuals. IMHO

this was so eye opening to me, could anyone further explain this to me? I believe that I may be seeing things through the wrong eyes or mind set.

If we wait till they ask before we mention our Lord, we will be able to keep our mouths shut for a very long time. There is some truth to the idea that they will wonder about your behavior when compared to others, but I would really suggest that we should find a way to open the door for their questions. If we are the first to use the word God or Jesus, they don't usually mind being the second one to do so.

When we fail to use those scary words, most often, they won't either.