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Is it our own fault they react this way?

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  • Discussion Is it our own fault they react this way?

    I was reading the threads about Prop 8 and the h*mos*xuals attacking the churches and it got me thinking about something. Is it possible that it is our own fault they are responding this way? It seems from what I read and hear through this site and tv and online that the predominate issues christians are in an uproar about are abortion and h*mos*xuality. Yes, I know that these are terrible, but so is lying, drunkeneess, idolatry, etc. Many unbelievers only see us preaching against these, and nothing else, which is why they may think we hate them so, particularly the people who are g*y. They think we are singling them out. Do you believe it is a reasonable theory I have put out here? Why or why not?

  • #2
    I think you make a good point... the problem is that homosexual behaviour is sinful, and to people who are not "that way inclined" it's rather repulsive. Homosexuals themselves cannot see (or remember) that their sin provokes disgust, and they are offended by the reaction. (When I was in that kind of relationship myself, before I was Christian, I managed to "edit" my previous feelings regarding same sex bonds. Deep down though I still knew.) People tend to react with a visceral horror when confronted by that particular sin.

    In one of the "protests" against Prop 8 there was an incident when the "protestors" disrupted a service by, among other things, "making out" in front of the congregation and preacher. It struck me that people were offended by "queer kissing," as though such behaviour would have been less reprehensible between heterosexual people in a house of God.

    We can't help our feelings, but we do have to remember that all sin is reprehensible and disgusting in the eyes of God. Including our own sins.

    The media feeding frenzy surrounding homosexuality generates a counter reaction amongst Christians, so it ends up looking as though Christians are fighting a losing battle against a newly liberated group that (according to the new history everyone is being brainwashed with) we have been oppressing. To a certain extent the fact that we keep throwing our pearls before the same swine, year in and year out, is stimmying us. We stop teaching our own children about the value of chastity, we stop examining our own habits of thought and behaviour. The devil has us distracted on one front, and he's painting us into a corner.

    We need to remember that the gates of hell cannot prevail against Christ's church, and we need to treat homosexual sinners not as a special class of sinner, but as lost men and women who need the gospel, just like a heterosexual man cheating on his wife, or an alchoholic mother who neglects her kids.

    People are people, and we need to look at THEM primarily, not the sin.
    Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

    My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lyndie View Post
      I was reading the threads about Prop 8 and the h*mos*xuals attacking the churches and it got me thinking about something. Is it possible that it is our own fault they are responding this way?
      Very insightful. An insight that can only come from the Holy Spirit.

      Originally posted by Lyndie View Post
      It seems from what I read and hear through this site and tv and online that the predominate issues christians are in an uproar about are abortion and h*mos*xuality. Yes, I know that these are terrible, but so is lying, drunkeneess, idolatry, etc. Many unbelievers only see us preaching against these, and nothing else,
      My heart leaps with joy at the depth of this understanding you are having here.

      Originally posted by Lyndie View Post
      which is why they may think we hate them so, particularly the people who are g*y. They think we are singling them out. Do you believe it is a reasonable theory I have put out here? Why or why not?
      Who can run before they crawl?

      In the same way, who can preach and teach about the huge strokes and obvious laws, when they themselves have yet to learn and practice the jots and the tittles?

      Comment


      • #4
        Or to put it another way, we should remove the log from our own eye. Good point, Back2Front.
        Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

        My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by daughter View Post
          Or to put it another way, we should remove the log from our own eye. Good point, Back2Front.
          From the very words of Christ himself always comes a certain punctuation. Thank you for quoting him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by daughter View Post
            Or to put it another way, we should remove the log from our own eye. Good point, Back2Front.
            I also want to say that the application of the words from Christ himself always causes me Joy as it is the literal road map for me as to how to live life in the flesh, through the spirit in a way that seeks the perfection of He who has set my example in both flesh and Spirit.

            Living and learning the jots and tittles should indeed never cause one to ignore the plank in their own eye, through nitpicking at the speck in our brothers and sisters eye.

            Comment


            • #7
              When "Christians" openly preach condemnation and hell-fire to unbelievers I think God is embarrassed that His children are getting it so wrong.
              The gospel is best expressed by following Jesus example. He offered them life first, then revealed the people His law.
              An example of this is the woman at the well. He offered her living water, and when He had her interest, He then pointed out her sin, although not in any manner that condemned. His message to her gave her an overwhelming sense of acceptance, despite having Him tell her "everything that I had ever done".
              Another example of this is seen with God's treatment of Israel while in Egypt. They had forgotten His ways after many hundreds of years and had no or little knowledge of the true God. Their slavery had blinded them to hope, until God sent them a deliverer in the person of Moses. Their salvation came first. Then, while beginning their journey, God gave them His law.
              So many Christians have this back to front. We call people sinners, we condemn and accuse and expect them to respond favorably. We are not only deceiving them but ourselves also. But worse, we are promoting a completely wrong perception of the nature and character of a loving, merciful and gracious God.
              Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
              rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                When "Christians" openly preach condemnation and hell-fire to unbelievers I think God is embarrassed that His children are getting it so wrong.
                The gospel is best expressed by following Jesus example. He offered them life first, then revealed the people His law.
                An example of this is the woman at the well. He offered her living water, and when He had her interest, He then pointed out her sin, although not in any manner that condemned. His message to her gave her an overwhelming sense of acceptance, despite having Him tell her "everything that I had ever done".
                Another example of this is seen with God's treatment of Israel while in Egypt. They had forgotten His ways after many hundreds of years and had no or little knowledge of the true God. Their slavery had blinded them to hope, until God sent them a deliverer in the person of Moses. Their salvation came first. Then, while beginning their journey, God gave them His law.
                So many Christians have this back to front. We call people sinners, we condemn and accuse and expect them to respond favorably. We are not only deceiving them but ourselves also. But worse, we are promoting a completely wrong perception of the nature and character of a loving, merciful and gracious God.
                Great post! I agree. Sadly I think because we don't follow the instruction in the bible given on how to reach the lost...and follow Christ example, we drive more away from God then too Him. Its getting really bad with the Christians too...especially on the net! The attacks on nonbelievers is so horrible its sickening...they bait them just to attack them...and they cuss like you wouldn't believe!

                I made this video to address this problem...

                filthy mouth Christians

                We cannot go around just doing these things and claiming we are doing it in the Name of God. Its shaming Him and everything He did for THE sinners...for the LOST.

                God bless
                "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                  Great post! I agree. Sadly I think because we don't follow the instruction in the bible given on how to reach the lost...and follow Christ example, we drive more away from God then too Him. Its getting really bad with the Christians too...especially on the net! The attacks on nonbelievers is so horrible its sickening...they bait them just to attack them...and they cuss like you wouldn't believe!

                  I made this video to address this problem...

                  filthy mouth Christians

                  We cannot go around just doing these things and claiming we are doing it in the Name of God. Its shaming Him and everything He did for THE sinners...for the LOST.

                  God bless
                  Great Video MoonGlow
                  God Bless
                  Randy
                  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think it's very important to keep one key point in mind here.

                    Whenever you hear accounts of certain groups acting out in a malicious or otherwise extreme way -- Muslims bombing trains, Christians picketing funerals, gay people attacking churches -- one must realize that these extremists do not represent the vast majority of others within their particular group.

                    The group of gay people who attacked that church in Michigan were wrong in what they did, and most gay people would agree that it was wrong and wouldn't condone what they did in the least. It isn't right to take the extreme actions of a few and assume they speak for the majority.

                    That said, I can tell you for a fact that the issue many gay people -- as well as straight non-Christians -- have with Christians is the "my sin isn't as bad as your sin" mentality many Christians have. Sure, it's easy to look down on gay people and tell them how horrible their actions are in God's eyes, but what does the bible say about looking at the speck in your neighbor's eye? What issues do you struggle with in your own life, yet not consider them "as bad" as the sins of others? Maybe even things that you know are wrong but have no intentions of changing? Think about how you might feel having someone bringing those sins up to you every time they see you, and the picture becomes clearer.

                    If we treat everyone with love and compassion, and stop holding the 10 foot pole out in front of those we don't agree with, we come closer to living and showing the love Jesus had for people in His time. We must stop looking down on others just because their sin "seems" worse than our own.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, great discussion so far. Moonglow, that video was awesome. The subject of abortion comes to mind also. I had the opportunity to go to Soulfest this yr, andit was awesome. One of the stories they told was about a teen girl who was preganant, and was going to abort her baby. The people who were speaking told of how they loved on her, gave her hope, and the girl decided to keep her baby. I wonder how many more babaies we can save if, instaed of standing outside clinics screaming "murderer" and holding up pics of fetuses, we handed out hot choccolate and said something to the effect of

                      "hi. Would you like some hot chocolate? I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you right now, and you might think this is your only way out. But it isn't. We can help you figure out other options. We can help you get your education, or a job, or a home, and give you rides to dr appt's if you need them. We can also have a baby shower at our church if you are in need of items to care for your baby. OR, we can help you find a loving home, if that is what you'd like." Part of the problem is when a girl gets pregant young, many people say "You've ruined your life, its going to be so hard now, you'll never get an education, etc". By saying those things abortions seems like an easy out, because the child will be a burden. Will it be hard? Of course, I was a mom at 19, I know. But, most of the women I know who have had abortions did it because they felt there was no other way. They are scared, mostly. Especially girls who are in the church. Instead of condemning them, we should help them, because girls in the church have abortions more often than we care to admit, and they are problem the most frightened of all, expecting condemnation and the like.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We do nothing wrong when we try to get people to repent of their sins; we are only trying to help them.

                        We'd like it if people would not indulge in their sins but would find try happiness with God.

                        A lot of people think that pleasure=happiness, but really is that the case? Who's happy when a drunk kills someone? Who's happy when they've ruined their body from drugs?

                        True happiness is dwelling with God, not some fleshy craving.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lyndie View Post
                          Wow, great discussion so far. Moonglow, that video was awesome. The subject of abortion comes to mind also. I had the opportunity to go to Soulfest this yr, andit was awesome. One of the stories they told was about a teen girl who was preganant, and was going to abort her baby. The people who were speaking told of how they loved on her, gave her hope, and the girl decided to keep her baby. I wonder how many more babaies we can save if, instaed of standing outside clinics screaming "murderer" and holding up pics of fetuses, we handed out hot choccolate and said something to the effect of

                          "hi. Would you like some hot chocolate? I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you right now, and you might think this is your only way out. But it isn't. We can help you figure out other options. We can help you get your education, or a job, or a home, and give you rides to dr appt's if you need them. We can also have a baby shower at our church if you are in need of items to care for your baby. OR, we can help you find a loving home, if that is what you'd like." Part of the problem is when a girl gets pregant young, many people say "You've ruined your life, its going to be so hard now, you'll never get an education, etc". By saying those things abortions seems like an easy out, because the child will be a burden. Will it be hard? Of course, I was a mom at 19, I know. But, most of the women I know who have had abortions did it because they felt there was no other way. They are scared, mostly. Especially girls who are in the church. Instead of condemning them, we should help them, because girls in the church have abortions more often than we care to admit, and they are problem the most frightened of all, expecting condemnation and the like.
                          You may be interested in the work of this group.

                          http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's easy to go after sins you have no interest in doing. Christians love to attack homosexuality because its a sin that most of us not only have no desire to do, but it disgusts us on a natural, human level without even delving into the spiritual horror. Now, take fornication. That sin is appealing to our flesh. I'm a guy and I know for a fact if there were no God or ultimate morality, I'd be out having sex with women. But I also know for a fact I would not be in a homosexual relationship.

                            We as Christians tend to condemn sin based on the weaknesses and strengths of our flesh rather than the truth that lies in our spirit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The first thirty yrs. of my life, there was not a person on the face of the Earth who could have convinced me that God existed.

                              But there were many who convinced me there was not ..can anyone guess who they were ?
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              "Let no man deceive you"

                              I also am "man" - this includes myself !

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