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  • Discussion The "light" on day one

    On day one of creation, God created light. He divided darkness and light, he called the dark night, the light day.

    However, it was not until the 4th day of creation that the physical lights which allow us to see were created. The sun which lights the day, the moon and stars to light the night, created on the 4th day. These lights too, define for us what day or night is.

    What then, do you think the light on day one is? I have heard one who believes the elements that would be used to make the sun, moon, and stars were created on day one...thus, even though the sun and moon were yet to be created, what would be used to make them was, so God was able to divide day and night. This makes some sense.

    I have another alternative to that which is worthy of consideration. It is a two part answer that works in harmony together.

    Since God knows the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end, He knew before He made us, that we would fall. Could it be then, that the "light" on day one was the narrow pathway BACK to him, created before we even needed to use that path?

    There is no record as to when God's Torah, His Law, was created. However, we know it was before Sinai and Moses, because we see that Abraham kept God's commandments and Torah as early as Gen 26:5. Could Torah, the guideline for what is and isn't expected of God's people, have been created on day one?

    Pro 6:23 For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light and reproofs of discipline a way of life

    The word WORD is used for Torah at various times, and we know the Word was made flesh. When in the flesh, John refered to him in this manner:

    John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    He goes on:

    John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    I am not proposing Yahushua (Jesus) was created, I rather see him as the creator. But his purpose in coming to earth was to reconcile the world unto himself, to "light the way" back to God.

    So could it have been that the Torah, which pointed to Messiah, and the Good News (gospel) itself, was the light created on day one? A path back to God before the path was even needed? I draw no conclusion yet, ultimately we canot not know for sure. But if this is indeed what the light of day one is about, is there a better example of the grace of God in scripture than to see him planning our return to Him before we even fell away? I know not of one!

    Peace and blessings.
    Ken

  • #2
    I don't know, but it made me think of this. Dark is the absense of light. Darkness is often associated with evil. Yet Darkness in itself is good. It is when we sleep. Why did God create us to need sleep. Is sleep symbolic of dying and waking up in Heaven? Is the first light the light that is found in Heaven? Is Heaven lit up by the holiness of Christ or God? Or is/was it created for us?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by kenrank View Post
      On day one of creation, God created light. He divided darkness and light, he called the dark night, the light day.

      However, it was not until the 4th day of creation that the physical lights which allow us to see were created. The sun which lights the day, the moon and stars to light the night, created on the 4th day. These lights too, define for us what day or night is.

      What then, do you think the light on day one is? I have heard one who believes the elements that would be used to make the sun, moon, and stars were created on day one...thus, even though the sun and moon were yet to be created, what would be used to make them was, so God was able to divide day and night. This makes some sense.

      I have another alternative to that which is worthy of consideration. It is a two part answer that works in harmony together.

      Since God knows the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end, He knew before He made us, that we would fall. Could it be then, that the "light" on day one was the narrow pathway BACK to him, created before we even needed to use that path?

      There is no record as to when God's Torah, His Law, was created. However, we know it was before Sinai and Moses, because we see that Abraham kept God's commandments and Torah as early as Gen 26:5. Could Torah, the guideline for what is and isn't expected of God's people, have been created on day one?

      Pro 6:23 For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light and reproofs of discipline a way of life

      The word WORD is used for Torah at various times, and we know the Word was made flesh. When in the flesh, John refered to him in this manner:

      John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
      John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

      He goes on:

      John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
      John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
      John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

      I am not proposing Yahushua (Jesus) was created, I rather see him as the creator. But his purpose in coming to earth was to reconcile the world unto himself, to "light the way" back to God.

      So could it have been that the Torah, which pointed to Messiah, and the Good News (gospel) itself, was the light created on day one? A path back to God before the path was even needed? I draw no conclusion yet, ultimately we canot not know for sure. But if this is indeed what the light of day one is about, is there a better example of the grace of God in scripture than to see him planning our return to Him before we even fell away? I know not of one!

      Peace and blessings.
      Ken

      Two things:

      First, scientist are just now learning that all things are made up of "strings", which are, in essence a form of "light".

      Second, we understand the separating of light from the darkness to have additional significance as this speaks to God's purpose for creation, i.e. to reveal himself. From day-one our understanding has moved from cloudy to clear, dim to bright, vague to defined, ambiguous to fixed, foolish to wise, dumb to smart, and etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gregg View Post
        I don't know, but it made me think of this. Dark is the absense of light. Darkness is often associated with evil. Yet Darkness in itself is good. It is when we sleep. Why did God create us to need sleep. Is sleep symbolic of dying and waking up in Heaven? Is the first light the light that is found in Heaven? Is Heaven lit up by the holiness of Christ or God? Or is/was it created for us?
        Like I said, I haven't made any conclusion. Don't even know if one is possible. But what you are saying somewhat falls in line with how I lean, that being...the good, the path to him, maybe even, knowledge.

        The tree of knowledge of good and evil has both light (good) and dark (evil) and from what we can tell, was involved in the first command given by God. (i.e. don't eat of it)

        Another perspective would be for those who do not believe Jesus is God, then they might see Jesus as having been created then...the light. I don't subscribe to that notion.

        Good stuff though!
        Peace.
        Ken

        Comment


        • #5
          God's plans in themselves were all available and known to him from the beginning. As the scriptures state..

          Ecclesiastes 3:1
          To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

          Ecclesiastes 3:11
          It is beautiful how God has done everything at the right time. He has put a sense of eternity in people's minds. Yet, mortals still can't grasp what God is doing from the beginning to the end [of time].

          So everything that God has done is meant to be applied to various periods of time when applied to his creations.

          I don't believe God created the Mosaic covenant..for example -- to be applied to those during Noah's time..or after the time of Christ..as they are given no specific commands by God to follow the Mosaic covenants.

          Hope this answers your question.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is from Thomas Aquinas

            Be light made: I answer, then, with Dionysius (Div. Nom. iv), that the light was the sun's light, formless as yet, being already the solar substance, and possessing illuminative power in a general way, to which was afterwards added the special and determinative power required to produce determinate effects. Thus, then, in the production of this light a triple distinction was made between light and darkness. First, as to the cause, forasmuch as in the substance of the sun we have the cause of light, and in the opaque nature of the earth the cause of darkness. Secondly, as to place, for in one hemisphere there was light, in the other darkness. Thirdly, as to time; because there was light for one and darkness for another in the same hemisphere; and this is signified by the words, "He called the light day, and the darkness night."
            Augustine seems to say (De Civ. Dei xi, 9,33) that Moses could not have fittingly passed over the production of the spiritual creature, and therefore when we read, "In the beginning Godcreated heaven and earth," a spiritualnature as yet formless is to be understood by the word "heaven," and formless matter of the corporeal creature by the word "earth." And spiritualnature was formed first, as being of higher dignity than corporeal. The forming, therefore, of this spiritualnature is signified by the production of light, that is to say, of spiritual light. For a spiritualnature receives its form by the enlightenment whereby it is led to adhere to the Word of God.

            Comment


            • #7
              The light from day one came from the Sun. Genesis 1 is topical not chronological.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
                The light from day one came from the Sun. Genesis 1 is topical not chronological.
                I think there's a metaphorical aspect to it.specifically..the light of Christ..think of Paul's Epistle from Hebrews..

                John 1:4
                "In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

                Hebrews 2:18
                Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

                So before him there was only darkness in creation..when he came, so did light "i.e. bright morning star." In relation to the thread poster's original question..I don't think the Torah can be discerned to be created at any period of time within God's creation of man..thus that is why I posted the verses from Ecclessiastes.

                We only know it to be applicable to a specific time period to men..specifically that time period between when it was handed to Moses on Mount Sinai and the cross. Who knows exactly when God created it. It could have been created at any "time" within the realm we live in..which does not apply to the timelessness of God himself..i.e. him being eternity and all.
                Last edited by Friend of I AM; Dec 18th 2008, 04:34 PM. Reason: clarification

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                  John 1:4
                  "In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

                  Hebrews 2:18
                  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

                  So before him there was only darkness in creation..
                  I don't agree in entirety -- As per this verse..

                  1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

                  So I think the light always existed. Now the darkness came afterward, or I think it came after God seperated the light from the darkness. We know that all darkness represents is the absence of light. That being said, I think we can look at the initial Genesis account from two perspectives..God seperating physical light from physical darkness..or from a metaphorical perspective of God seperating the concepts of good and evil from the onset of creation. Isaiah 45:7 goes into this a bit more in depth with the I form light I create darkness verses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Just_Another_Guy View Post
                    I don't agree in entirety -- As per this verse..

                    1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

                    So I think the light always existed. Now the darkness came afterward, or I think it came after God seperated the light from the darkness. We know that all darkness represents is the absence of light. That being said, I think we can look at the initial Genesis account from two perspectives..God seperating physical light from physical darkness..or from a metaphorical perspective of God seperating the concepts of good and evil from the onset of creation. Isaiah 45:7 goes into this a bit more in depth with the I form light I create darkness verses.
                    That's what I meant. I wasn't trying to state that God isn't in control of things and that he wasn't light..just that creation itself only new darkness before it knew God..i.e..the following verse..

                    John 3:19
                    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

                    Now are you trying to suggest that light and darkness have some fellowship with one another in the verse from Isaiah above? If this is the case..how does one really distinguish between the two concepts? My thought would be that there is no fellowship between the two..but God uses both of these concepts known by man for his purposes..I think that's what the verse is alluding too above. We don't understand these purposes at times..thus is why there is all the confusion when something we perceive as bad is happenning...

                    God bless,

                    Stephen

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                      That's what I meant. I wasn't trying to state that God isn't in control of things and that he wasn't light..just that creation itself only new darkness before it knew God..i.e..the following verse..

                      John 3:19
                      And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

                      Now are you trying to suggest that light and darkness have some fellowship with one another in the verse from Isaiah above? If this is the case..how does one really distinguish between the two concepts? My thought would be that there is no fellowship between the two..but God uses both of these concepts known by man for his purposes..I think that's what the verse is alluding too above. We don't understand these purposes at times..thus is why there is all the confusion when something we perceive as bad is happenning...

                      God bless,

                      Stephen
                      No I am not trying to suggest that light and darkness fellowship with one another. I am trying to suggest that God uses these concepts for his purposes -- as per the description I'm about to give in realtion to the thread topic.

                      The torah for example..represented a two fold purpose by God -- the apostle Paul goes into great detail to describe this. The light in the torah..demonstrated and represented God's righteousnous, while the darkness it brought about to mankind was the inherent sinfulness of man -- and his need of a savior.

                      The time period thing I agree with you on. It is impossible for us to really say at what point in eternity God actually created it -- as he is the Alpha and the Omega. It does more than likely only apply to a specific point in time in regards to mankind's timeline.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
                        The light from day one came from the Sun. Genesis 1 is topical not chronological.
                        You're entitled to that opinion, but how do you arrive at it? It clearly says the sun was created on day 4.

                        Thanks.
                        Ken

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

                          Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

                          Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

                          So it appears that the light was his dear son, the word of God, the light of the world. Note God creates the heaven and earth, his son which was firstborn creates all that is IN heaven and IN earth from day 2-6.

                          Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

                          Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

                          Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

                          Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


                          He will be the literal light of the world for ever....


                          Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Paul quoted Genesis 1 to the Corinthians when he said it was God who said "Let there be light" in our hearts. The whole chapter is also about the salvation of man and his sanctification.

                            Man's heart is without form and void. The Spirit of God hovers over the heart of the man. Then God says let there be light and it is good. The man is changed. Then God begins the process of separating the man and sanctifying him and making him fruitful. Each step is good. But when man is fully formed in the image of God, God calls this very good.

                            So not only is it a type of God showing that Jesus would come into the world without explanation and not be understood (i.e. light without a sun) so would light shine in the heart of man and man would be created in His image.

                            There is much more to Genesis than just creation.
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                              Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

                              Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

                              Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

                              So it appears that the light was his dear son, the word of God, the light of the world. Note God creates the heaven and earth, his son which was firstborn creates all that is IN heaven and IN earth from day 2-6.

                              Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

                              Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

                              Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

                              Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


                              He will be the literal light of the world for ever....


                              Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
                              That's a well thought out post, but you realize it put Messiah as created, and not the creator. Note your above verse, Col. 1:16, "for by him were ALL things created." That goes along with John, "he was in the world, the world was made by him, the world knew him not." God is a Spirit (John 4:24) who was manifested in the flesh. (1 Tim 3:16) So could it have been the physical image he would assume, the image he made Adam after, what would become the son....that Col. 1:15 is speaking of???

                              Peace.
                              Ken

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