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  • Was Noah Righteous?

    Was Noah righteous because of how he lived, or because God declared him righteous?
    (forgive my spelling lol)

    Increasing Corruption on Earth

    6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in [1] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim [2] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
    5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
    Noah and the Flood

    9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.



    When it says Noah found favor, does that mean he was a good man and God said well hey look at that righteous man down there

    Or does it mean Noah found favor in the sense that God chose to give him favor?

    Wasn't Noah included in the previous verses in the evil condition of mankind? I think later on it goes on to say that Noah was passed out drunk in his tent butt naked lol is that a righteous man?


  • #2
    Originally posted by reformedct View Post
    Was Noah righteous because of how he lived, or because God declared him righteous?
    (forgive my spelling lol)

    Increasing Corruption on Earth

    6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in [1] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim [2] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
    5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
    Noah and the Flood

    9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.



    When it says Noah found favor, does that mean he was a good man and God said well hey look at that righteous man down there

    Or does it mean Noah found favor in the sense that God chose to give him favor?

    Wasn't Noah included in the previous verses in the evil condition of mankind? I think later on it goes on to say that Noah was passed out drunk in his tent butt naked lol is that a righteous man?

    I think it means both. God decided to show favor to Noah, in order to save mankind during the time and ordained him to be alive. Likewise..Noah was righteous in God's eyes as well, based on his actions. He decided to not go with the flow of what everyone else was doing, and didn't turn from God when the going got tough..and from the reading of scripture those times during the flood were very tough. I'm sure we can't even begin to imagine what Noah had to go through with Nephilim running rampant, the building of the ark..and the additional responsability of having to preach to the people for 100's of years..all the while being mocked and ridiculed in the process.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think Noah was deemed a righteous man in his day, based on what he did -- specifically his obedience and faithfulness to God. I don't necessarily think that God forced Noah to be righteous, which is why I think one really needs to be careful in using the term predestined with him. I think of the best application to give regarding God's choosing of Noah would be that of Psalm 53:2.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Just_Another_Guy View Post
        I think Noah was deemed a righteous man in his day, based on what he did -- specifically his obedience and faithfulness to God. I don't necessarily think that God forced Noah to be righteous, which is why I think one really needs to be careful in using the term predestined with him. I think of the best application to give regarding God's choosing of Noah would be that of Psalm 53:2.

        so..
        are you saying,
        First Noah was good
        then God responded?

        im not here to force you to believe what i do but i don't see why Noah isn't counted among the evildoers in the previous verses?

        the story seems to play like this:

        man was evil and jacked lol (including noah?)

        Noah found favor. (i believe in the original language the word is the same word as "grace" which makes sense, because one aspect of grace is that it is the giving of something that is not deserved)

        Then it says Noah was righteouss and blameless in his generation(even though he got drunk and naked in a tent, so if he was blamless, it must be talking about a righteousness other than his own.) Once again these are just my views


        Notice that first Noah found favor (or grace)

        THEN he was said to be righteouss.

        this seems to fall in line with what Paul says: By grace you have been saved, not of yourselves, lest any man should boast.

        i just feel that if God responded to Noah's obedience, Noah could say:
        "yes, i found favor because i did good things"

        there would be room for boasting

        this is why i believe God chose Noah because it was His will not because Noah was literally blameless in and of himself. I mean was Noah really in and of himself blameless? wouldn't that basically be synonmous with sinless? yet after God killed all mankind, Noah is passed out naked?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          man was evil and jacked lol (including noah?)
          I don't believe the text describes Noah as being as fell as the rest of mankind.

          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          Noah found favor. (i believe in the original language the word is the same word as "grace" which makes sense, because one aspect of grace is that it is the giving of something that is not deserved)
          I guess I'm suspicious. If it meant "grace" why didn't the translators say "grace". Even if it is grace, did absolutely nothing separate Noah from other people of the time and God just pulled him out at random? If so, what responsibility does that give us to live righteous lives?

          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          Then it says Noah was righteouss and blameless in his generation(even though he got drunk and naked in a tent, so if he was blamless, it must be talking about a righteousness other than his own.) Once again these are just my views
          One difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Jews can consider someone righteous even though they've messed up (ie: David, Moses, Noah, Samson, etc). I believe the text is saying that overall, Noah was as righteous as it got in that time, yet he was still human and fell short.

          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          Notice that first Noah found favor (or grace)
          THEN he was said to be righteouss.
          I believe it reads that way simply because there's no way to describe two things simultaneously in a sentence. I do not believe its stating that there was a difference between finding favor and being righteous. They went hand in hand, not chronologically.

          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          i just feel that if God responded to Noah's obedience, Noah could say:
          "yes, i found favor because i did good things"

          there would be room for boasting
          If one was being obedient, wouldn't that preclude one from boasting?

          [/quote]this is why i believe God chose Noah because it was His will not because Noah was literally blameless in and of himself. I mean was Noah really in and of himself blameless? wouldn't that basically be synonmous with sinless? yet after God killed all mankind, Noah is passed out naked?[/quote]
          I believe its both. I believe it was God's will AND that Noah mastered himself enough to be righteous in God's eyes. While its true Noah suffered a bout of drunkenness, he certainly paid the consequences for it, and it happened after God had deemed him righteous and set him to work on the Ark AND after having survived an extinction level event.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
            I don't believe the text describes Noah as being as fell as the rest of mankind.


            I guess I'm suspicious. If it meant "grace" why didn't the translators say "grace". Even if it is grace, did absolutely nothing separate Noah from other people of the time and God just pulled him out at random? If so, what responsibility does that give us to live righteous lives?


            One difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Jews can consider someone righteous even though they've messed up (ie: David, Moses, Noah, Samson, etc). I believe the text is saying that overall, Noah was as righteous as it got in that time, yet he was still human and fell short.


            I believe it reads that way simply because there's no way to describe two things simultaneously in a sentence. I do not believe its stating that there was a difference between finding favor and being righteous. They went hand in hand, not chronologically.


            If one was being obedient, wouldn't that preclude one from boasting?
            this is why i believe God chose Noah because it was His will not because Noah was literally blameless in and of himself. I mean was Noah really in and of himself blameless? wouldn't that basically be synonmous with sinless? yet after God killed all mankind, Noah is passed out naked?[/quote]
            I believe its both. I believe it was God's will AND that Noah mastered himself enough to be righteous in God's eyes. While its true Noah suffered a bout of drunkenness, he certainly paid the consequences for it, and it happened after God had deemed him righteous and set him to work on the Ark AND after having survived an extinction level event.[/quote]

            this is a good argument and makes sense
            i still see it my way but man i wish we could go back in time and actually watch all o these events played out! oh man could you imagine seeing or watching the creation of the first human being how crazy would that be.

            I wish God had videotaped all of the old and new testament so we could watch hahahah

            peace

            Comment


            • #7
              The New Testament often sheds light on difficulties in the Old Testament.

              Heb 11:6-7
              6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
              7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
              NKJV
              Blessings,

              Road Warrior


              Proverbs 4:23
              23 Guard your heart above all else,
              for it determines the course of your life.

              Comment


              • #8
                Noah choose to do as he was told. He was saved because of his faith. He was righteous because he was obedient.

                Romans 6:16 (King James Version)

                Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
                * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * ** * *** * * * * ***** * * * * ** * * * * ** ** * *
                ~ * You get 10 'reps' to bless others with each day... don't log off until you have used them up......
                ....Live your life the same way.... ~ *

                Please pray for the 'Persecuted Church'.


                Bible Forums Vision: "To be a community of believers who are actively engaged in pursuing the truth of God as revealed in His Son Jesus Christ by way of studying the Scriptures diligently in order to discover this truth."


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                  Was Noah righteous because of how he lived, or because God declared him righteous?
                  (forgive my spelling lol)

                  Increasing Corruption on Earth

                  6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in [1] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim [2] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
                  5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
                  Noah and the Flood

                  9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.



                  When it says Noah found favor, does that mean he was a good man and God said well hey look at that righteous man down there

                  Or does it mean Noah found favor in the sense that God chose to give him favor?

                  Wasn't Noah included in the previous verses in the evil condition of mankind? I think later on it goes on to say that Noah was passed out drunk in his tent butt naked lol is that a righteous man?

                  Greetings Reformed,

                  If Noah was righteous because of how he lived, he would have somewhat to boast of. He could claim that he found grace in the eyes of the LORD because he was already just and perfect. If that were the case then the text should read, "God saw that the wickedness of man, except for Noah was great in the earth."

                  To be just means that Noah was a lawful or righteous man, and that he was perfect (walked in integrity) in his generations (his life time). How was Noah just and perfect since God has declared that every man was wicked? Noah is just and perfect because God's grace was upon him. Noah did not possess grace because he was just and perfect, but he found grace. In other words faith came forth from the grace God showed him. Noah, by grace received faith that was not his own but the gift of God's grace. This is how Noah is able, through faith to build the ark for the next 120 years.

                  Ge 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
                  Ge 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

                  Ps 18:32 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

                  Many Blessings,
                  RW

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [quote=reformedct;1911481]Was Noah righteous because of how he lived, or because God declared him righteous?
                    (forgive my spelling lol)

                    Let's look at another translation here KJb

                    Ge 6:9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.It says that Noah was a just man perfect in his generations, he was just by his ways , if it had been God made him just, then it would have read God made him just in his ways, but perjust in his generation not perfect in his ways, but he would had to rely on God and His strength as we do to be just. we tend to look at things wrong sometime we have preach that everything have is God's But in acts it says Ac 5:3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?Ac 5:4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Ac 5:5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.


                    While God gives us something He gives it to us. while Ananias, had something God's inspired Word said that while He had it it was Ananias's not God's, it was in ananias's power to do with it what he wanted to. so if the Bible said that Noah was just, then Noah we shouldn't try to figure out our question but to learn that if one man was a just man in God's eyes, then we to could be just
                    Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


                    Pastor Keith

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post
                      The New Testament often sheds light on difficulties in the Old Testament.

                      Heb 11:6-7
                      6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
                      7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
                      NKJV
                      You guys seem to be a bit stuck in the OT.

                      Hebrews indicates that Noah had faith in God, that he was diligent in seeking God, that he feared God, and that when God spoke, he obeyed God.

                      Can we examine ourselves and see whether we have those characteristics in ourselves?

                      Do you seek to know whether or not God will see you as righteous? Here are the qualifications, as measured by Noah.

                      Faith
                      seeking
                      fearing
                      obeying

                      What do you think?
                      Blessings,

                      Road Warrior


                      Proverbs 4:23
                      23 Guard your heart above all else,
                      for it determines the course of your life.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                        If Noah was righteous because of how he lived, he would have somewhat to boast of. He could claim that he found grace in the eyes of the LORD because he was already just and perfect. If that were the case then the text should read, "God saw that the wickedness of man, except for Noah was great in the earth."
                        But if Noah wasn't righteous because he of how he lived, why would any of us bother being righteous. We could simply live unrighteously and blame God for not "choosing" us for righteousness.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          But if Noah wasn't righteous because he of how he lived, why would any of us bother being righteous. We could simply live unrighteously and blame God for not "choosing" us for righteousness.
                          What God declares righteous is righteous regardless of what it does. You speak of unrighteous living as if it were beneficial. It will kill you, why would anyone want to live unrighteously.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                            What God declares righteous is righteous regardless of what it does. You speak of unrighteous living as if it were beneficial. It will kill you, why would anyone want to live unrighteously.
                            I do?
                            (15 characters)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              so..
                              are you saying,
                              First Noah was good
                              then God responded?
                              I don't know which came first. It's hard to say..I think Noah did have a choice not to be obedient to God though, why else would have God lamented and considered possibly destroying the earth?

                              As far as God declaring Noah as blameless..it could have been God just assessing the situation...and stating, this guys been through a lot and maintained faithfulness to me..despite the fact that he's made mistakes..I'm not going to count anything against him...and use him as a vessel of mercy for mankind.

                              Now we see that God's mercy though doesn't preclude his judgement in this situation. Both are utilized regarding assisting with mankinds salvation.

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