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May I speak from my heart!

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  • May I speak from my heart!

    In my short time as a member of this board and starting first in the forum known as 'maturing in Christ' (I believe that's it) I was told that 'bible chat' was more suited for debating/discussion, etc; than it.

    I love to proclaim what I believe and realize there are all kinds of beliefs in here and from various back grounds and as such we will never ever agree even about who Jesus is - for instance one started a thread to see if "JESUS COULD SIN" Now, when I first glanced at it I passed over a number of times just like a few others that to me made me wonder 'what is their motive' in starting such a thing???

    To border on blasphemy is very dangerous and I have a light side about me at times but when it comes to my Savior who loved me and gave Himself for me then that is a very serious matter. I posted a reply;...oops got to go someone at the door;...be back later to finish this.

    God bless,
    Sam,

    P.S. Sorry, but been out all day and just came in after taking my wife out for supper. To resume with my thought above I only meant to say this:
    ...I posted a reply to the question but then got to thinking, why would one question if Jesus could sin? That is if they believe the word of God and have the blessed Holy Spirit abiding as their teacher and if they truly know the Lord in the free pardon of sin - How can one trust Jesus to save their soul and at the same time believe it was possible for Him to sin? To be this way one would have to wonder if he did, know what I mean!
    Last edited by Samsheep2; Dec 20th 2008, 12:36 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Samsheep2 View Post
    In my short time as a member of this board and starting first in the forum known as 'maturing in Christ' (I believe that's it) I was told that 'bible chat' was more suited for debating/discussion, etc; than it.

    I love to proclaim what I believe and realize there are all kinds of beliefs in here and from various back grounds and as such we will never ever agree even about who Jesus is - for instance one started a thread to see if "JESUS COULD SIN" Now, when I first glanced at it I passed over a number of times just like a few others that to me made me wonder 'what is their motive' in starting such a thing???

    To border on blasphemey is very dangerous and I have a light side about me at times but when it comes to my Savior who loved me and gave Himself for me then that is a very serious matter. I posted a reply;...oops go to go someone at the door;...be back later to finish this.

    God bless,
    sam
    Sam, the Truth needs no defense. I worry about people who are offended when their truth is questioned. We act as if God is sitting somewhere PO'd (plum offended), wringing his hands, scared to death by the questions we ask.


    I say the one of the biggest problems in Christianity is that we don't think and we don't ask questions. Have you ever noticed that the Bible doesn't defend itself. It didn't start with an arguement for God existence. Why?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Samsheep2 View Post
      In my short time as a member of this board and starting first in the forum known as 'maturing in Christ' (I believe that's it) I was told that 'bible chat' was more suited for debating/discussion, etc; than it.

      I love to proclaim what I believe and realize there are all kinds of beliefs in here and from various back grounds and as such we will never ever agree even about who Jesus is - for instance one started a thread to see if "JESUS COULD SIN" Now, when I first glanced at it I passed over a number of times just like a few others that to me made me wonder 'what is their motive' in starting such a thing???

      To border on blasphemey is very dangerous and I have a light side about me at times but when it comes to my Savior who loved me and gave Himself for me then that is a very serious matter. I posted a reply;...oops go to go someone at the door;...be back later to finish this.

      God bless,
      sam
      Sometimes people create posts to get us to think beyond the surface. I have started my own threads, which ended up being a little too controversial for my liking, but were simply intended to get others, and myself, to dig a little deeper into the Word.

      Could he have sinned? It isn't blasphemy to ask that question anymore than it is to get frustrated one day and ask, "God, are you even real?" We can't get answers my friend unless we ask questions. Did you read the Davinci Code? I did...took it all as fiction and enjoyed the heck out of it. It was based on some gnostic texts from the same time period most of the NT was written. Are they garabage? Sure...but is it blasphemy to ask, "Did you marry Mary Magdaline and have children?" Of course not, and his answer would be no, or course. But there is no harm in asking.

      When it gets to the blaphemous state is when you go beyond asking and start teaching that his works are of the devil, that he was a sinner, that he was really married and had kids, that he doesn't exist at all.

      Peace.
      Ken

      Comment


      • #4
        My brother Sam, I understand your feelings. But there was a time when I too wondered if Jesus "could" sin. Not that he ever would, but I was wondering about it because of what it meant to me. If Jesus had the potential to sin, then he too had to overcome all that I had to overcome. While I did not read the thread, perhaps it was not one of blasphemey but one of wanting to understand better.

        Jesus had to overcome everything I had to overcome. In all ways he was tempted as I was. If he could not ever, in any way, sin, then how could he be tempted?

        I do not proclaim to know the answer to this question. But I have taken great comfort in knowing that because Jesus overcame the flesh, we can too.

        Blessings,

        Mark
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mikebr View Post
          Sam, the Truth needs no defense. I worry about people who are offended when their truth is questioned. We act as if God is sitting somewhere PO'd (plum offended), wringing his hands, scared to death by the questions we ask.


          I say the one of the biggest problems in Christianity is that we don't think and we don't ask questions. Have you ever noticed that the Bible doesn't defend itself. It didn't start with an arguement for God existence. Why?
          --------------------------------------------------------------------

          What was Paul's proclamation?



          Wasn't he 'set' in DEFENSE of the Gospel Truth........ that Gospel that was Delivered unto Him...

          And in another Epistle.. it is a command to

          Earnestly Contend for the 'faith' that was delivered up...

          To me that is not just standing by and letting all sorts of doctrine and half truths be labeled as 'truth'.. accepting it all in 'love'...

          Pauls statement is very clear.. in 'defense' as there were many 'other' Gosels being proclaimed and many other 'Jesus's' being proclaimed by false teachers, false brethern, false ministers etc.. those whom satan had planted as he plants his own as to appear as the real thing...


          Jesus Himself is TRUTH.. He doesnt need defending.. He can 'defend' on His own and He DEFENDS His own children....... and He will..

          but when lies, half truths, and downright false teaching comes across that is 'un biblical.. yet accepted as Truth... because we must not judge or we must 'love' and accepting everything in love.... then thats where the line must be drawn as far as 'truth' being defended...

          Its like if your a very good cook.. you have a tremendous recipe that you have freely given to those to use.. all of a sudden somebody comes along out of mischief and spite.. adds to that recipe... changes it some.. this making the recipe 'horrible'... then the word gets out that you have a terrible recipe..........will you not 'defend what was Origianlly delivered?

          Paul was set in 'defence' of the Gospel Truth delivered to him... its clear in his writing and epistles that there were many other 'gospels' around at that time. and many 'other Jesus's ' being preached... which by the way.. he writes.. those who come to you preaching 'another' Jesus

          let him/her be accursed

          or you 'might' well bear with him/her..

          I may offend some on here.. and some may be taken back by my Bold stance .. but all I can do is testify about Him and what He has done... and I will earnestly contend for that Faith that was first delivered up.. and I will defend the 'Truth'... this maybe offending many.. but I'm not here to 'please' people or man.. but to "please" Him .. Him who has called me out of darkness into His marvelous light..
          Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
          ------------------------------------------------
          Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
          ------------------------------------------------
          The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
          Jeremiah 31:3

          Comment


          • #6
            well, whether jesus could sin or not, the important thing is that he didn't

            however the scriptures say he was tempted in every way we are

            now we also know God cannot be tempted

            however we must remember Jesus who was fully God was also fully man

            man can be tempted

            The bible also says that Jesus understands us when we are being tempted and he is not in heaven saying how could you even say you are struggling with temptation? i think the verse says we do not have a high preist who is not empathetic or something like that

            If Jesus couldn't sin in his flesh, then that means he cannot relate to us

            but i believe in his flesh was the possibility to sin, but being also fully God, those temptations were never given into

            either way, the main point is he came, he died, he rose, for us and His glory, Amen

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
              My brother Sam, I understand your feelings. But there was a time when I too wondered if Jesus "could" sin. Not that he ever would, but I was wondering about it because of what it meant to me. If Jesus had the potential to sin, then he too had to overcome all that I had to overcome. While I did not read the thread, perhaps it was not one of blasphemey but one of wanting to understand better.

              Jesus had to overcome everything I had to overcome. In all ways he was tempted as I was. If he could not ever, in any way, sin, then how could he be tempted?

              I do not proclaim to know the answer to this question. But I have taken great comfort in knowing that because Jesus overcame the flesh, we can too.

              Blessings,

              Mark
              Weird...I just had this conversation today with another I know. He too had a similar question, but he was stuck on the word tempted. Why was Messiah tempted...how could he be? He is God?

              So I looked up the word tempted in that verse and realized that maybe "tempted" wasn't the best choice of words. You be the judge.

              Tempted is taken from:
              pi-rad'-zo
              From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

              The root word for pirad'zo is:
              pi'rah and means to test or put to trial.

              So I am not so sure he was tempted as much put to the test. That might be semantics...but....

              Ken

              Comment


              • #8
                Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. James 1:13

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
                  Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. James 1:13
                  this is true but lets remember that Jesus was fully God AND fully man. God cannot be tempted but Jesus also humbled himself putting on the likeness of sinful flesh. He was also a man. In his man nature he could be tempted

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                    this is true but lets remember that Jesus was fully God AND fully man. God cannot be tempted but Jesus also humbled himself putting on the likeness of sinful flesh. He was also a man. In his man nature he could be tempted
                    Good point are you thinking of the temptation in the wilderness as biblical backup ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                      Weird...I just had this conversation today with another I know. He too had a similar question, but he was stuck on the word tempted. Why was Messiah tempted...how could he be? He is God?

                      So I looked up the word tempted in that verse and realized that maybe "tempted" wasn't the best choice of words. You be the judge.

                      Tempted is taken from:
                      pi-rad'-zo
                      From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

                      The root word for pirad'zo is:
                      pi'rah and means to test or put to trial.

                      So I am not so sure he was tempted as much put to the test. That might be semantics...but....

                      Ken
                      The interesting thing to me is that He was led by the Spirit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                        My brother Sam, I understand your feelings. But there was a time when I too wondered if Jesus "could" sin. Not that he ever would, but I was wondering about it because of what it meant to me. If Jesus had the potential to sin, then he too had to overcome all that I had to overcome. While I did not read the thread, perhaps it was not one of blasphemey but one of wanting to understand better.

                        Jesus had to overcome everything I had to overcome. In all ways he was tempted as I was. If he could not ever, in any way, sin, then how could he be tempted?

                        I do not proclaim to know the answer to this question. But I have taken great comfort in knowing that because Jesus overcame the flesh, we can too.

                        Blessings,

                        Mark
                        Like Mark says here, we all ask in order to understand the whole sacrifice Jesus made. While Jesus being fully man and fully God, he did not call on his deity while here as a man. Jesus faced the very same temptation we do and shows us we can overcome too.

                        If we never asked questions like this how would we grow to maturity in the faith? These kind of questions are the natural progression of maturity and how we find out what those false doctrines are. We don't have to defend God, he is very capable of doing that for himself. We do have to defend ourselves form the false teaching out there and the way we do that is through knowledge of what the truth is.
                        I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
                        Have you laid your burdens down?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
                          Good point are you thinking of the temptation in the wilderness as biblical backup ?

                          that and i was basin it on hebrews 4:15-16 i believe proclaims:

                          he was tempted in EVERY way that we are.

                          So there was a part of Jesus in which he can relate to us being tempted. He must have been able to feel what its like for the flesh to be tempted and felt the sinful natures weakness to temptation, yet he was without sin.

                          I mean, would it be amazing if Jesus didn't sin if it was impossible for Him to do so in His flesh? then whats the point? he cannot relate to us because He didnt even have potential to sin in his flesh?

                          However i think it is more profound to believe that though he was tempted (implying that he could sin imo), he refused to give into that temptation for 30 years. That is truly amazing. However as i said before, he was not tempted in his Deity. because God cannot be tempted, but Jesus also had a fleshly nature in his physical body right?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well... I can say I haven't been on here much simply because I have seen the same doctrines discussed over and over again and there is always someone who doesn't believe and here's why and there's some one who believes it and here's why...

                            It is my simple opinion that many of us look too much beyond the surface and take away the simplicity of knowing who Jesus is and thinking the right thoughts about him... Sometimes it just becomes a discussion more about a book than Jesus himself... we need to keep in mind that the Bible is the means to the the end... the end is knowing who Jesus is... the Bible is only a vehicle... it's not a literary work to be broken down an analyzed... it's the word of a living God who desires that his people search him out and know him...

                            Anyone can make a doctrine and make the Bible back it up... anyone can twist scripture... i can say something and someone can come along and misquote me and say that's what I said and totally miss my heart by a long shot... and that's what I'm afraid people do to God all of the time...

                            I say this because I am jealous to see someone who wants to know Jesus and have a heart for him... at the end of the day when I stand before God, I won't answer to the Bible, I'll answer to God... the Bible is only a means to know him... and many Bible scholars will hear Jesus say to them 'I never KNEW you'...
                            The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                              Well... I can say I haven't been on here much simply because I have seen the same doctrines discussed over and over again and there is always someone who doesn't believe and here's why and there's some one who believes it and here's why...

                              It is my simple opinion that many of us look too much beyond the surface and take away the simplicity of knowing who Jesus is and thinking the right thoughts about him... Sometimes it just becomes a discussion more about a book than Jesus himself... we need to keep in mind that the Bible is the means to the the end... the end is knowing who Jesus is... the Bible is only a vehicle... it's not a literary work to be broken down an analyzed... it's the word of a living God who desires that his people search him out and know him...

                              Anyone can make a doctrine and make the Bible back it up... anyone can twist scripture... i can say something and someone can come along and misquote me and say that's what I said and totally miss my heart by a long shot... and that's what I'm afraid people do to God all of the time...

                              I say this because I am jealous to see someone who wants to know Jesus and have a heart for him... at the end of the day when I stand before God, I won't answer to the Bible, I'll answer to God... the Bible is only a means to know him... and many Bible scholars will hear Jesus say to them 'I never KNEW you'...

                              this is a very good point and i agree 99.9%

                              the bible points us to Jesus this true. We can debate all day but if we don't individual seek Jesus and His righteousness for ourselves we won't know Him

                              however, because the Bible points us to Him, i believe it is wise to try to interpret what the Bible says about JEsus so we can see Him as he really is

                              For example, if i believe my salvation cannot be lost, and that Jesus will stick with me even when i fall into sin, my affections and relationship with Jesus will be different than if i believe it can be lost. Then my relationship toward Him would be a little different. Way more fear of slipping up by comitting a sin and such

                              So yes Jesus is the focus. However the Bible tells us about Him. So if we misinterpret what is said about Him, our picture of Him may be a little(and sometimes waaay) off.

                              Unfortunately i don't think these kind of debates will die until Jesus comes back.

                              I wish so bad to be able to sit down with Jesus, and have him explain to me exactly what everything in the Bible means, and exactly how i should relate to Him. Unfortunately all believers are not unified in all beliefs but what can you do?

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