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Good question! Spirtually dead?

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  • Good question! Spirtually dead?

    do not eat of the fruit, for in the day you do you will surely die

    did God only mean physically die? please use Scripture to explain

    when Adam ate the fruit did he only begin to die physically or did he also spiritually die?

  • #2
    Romans 5:11-13

    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

    Death has entered the world through sin. The Physical death we earn by sin due to the fact we are spiritually dead.

    Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

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    • #3
      Reckoned spiritually dead or fully and completely spiritually dead?

      He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."(Mar 12:27 NKJV)

      If our spirit is from God how can any spirit be dead?

      The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. (Job 33:4 KJV)

      Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. (Ecc 12:7 NKJV)

      The Pharaoh had a troubled spirit. Yet was not regenerated as I see it. Wholly dead things are not troubled.

      Now it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled, and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt and all its wise men. And Pharaoh told them his dreams, but there was no one who could interpret them for Pharaoh. (Gen 41:8 NKJV)

      I think the spirit is not dead in an unregenerate man but that it lacks a connection with God, then reckoned as good as dead though it lives. I see it is the very breath of life from God that makes us live, even when we are as good as dead, or even phisically dead, yet living.

      And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV)

      Peace,
      Joe

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      • #4
        It is an interesting question. Adam had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life and therefor, did not share in the uncreated life of God as we do. So what part of him died? I like Joe's answer a lot and I think he is on to something. The idea is that our spirits are separated from God and communication is lacking, much like a phone can be said to be "dead" because the line is cut.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

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        • #5
          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          do not eat of the fruit, for in the day you do you will surely die

          did God only mean physically die? please use Scripture to explain

          when Adam ate the fruit did he only begin to die physically or did he also spiritually die?


          It can't be spiritualy dead. God has clearly been communicating with man's spirit since that has happened.


          It can't be physically dead, as in the first death, because Christ defeated death, yet people still physically die.

          It only leaves one thing left. And that's the 2nd death, the final death from which there is no returning from. The Bible clearly tells us that this is what Christ saved us from. He obviously didn't save us from the first physical death, since we all still physically die. He saved us from the 2nd death, the same death that God warned Adam about.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by divaD View Post
            It only leaves one thing left. And that's the 2nd death, the final death from which there is no returning from. The Bible clearly tells us that this is what Christ saved us from. He obviously didn't save us from the first physical death, since we all still physically die. He saved us from the 2nd death, the same death that God warned Adam about.
            I was thinking this was a great answer and then I got stuck on something. Would Adam then not die in the second death, and the day he ate of it even? Know what I mean?

            Peace,
            Joe

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Walstib View Post
              I was thinking this was a great answer and then I got stuck on something. Would Adam then not die in the second death, and the day he ate of it even? Know what I mean?

              Peace,
              Joe


              According to Scriptures, the 2nd death doesn't occur until after judgment, With that in mind, this would go against God's nature if there were no judgment first, and Adam or Eve died the 2nd death right there on the spot.

              Also, we have to consider the fact that Adam nor Eve physically dropped dead
              at the eating of the fruit. My conclusion would be this. God wasn't specifically speaking to Adam nor Eve, He was speaking to mankind as a whole. Mankind as a whole would die.

              I feel that I make a good point about Christ defeating death. So which death did He defeat? It had to have been the 2nd one, since clearly people are still dying of the first one.

              Comment


              • #8
                There is body, spirit and soul - Adam and Eve did not physically die the instant they ate the fruit. God breathed spirit (life) into Adam - all people stop breathing at death. To me, it is the soul that "died" in Adam and Eve; they were no longer able to have communion with God. No longer could they walk in the garden with Him, talk to Him, learn from Him. God sacrificed an animal, blood was shed and they were "covered" by the sacrifice. Pictures of what Jesus has done for us.

                V
                I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
                - Mahatma Gandhi



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                • #9
                  No one is ever spiritually dead! Not even the wicked rather they are not yet spiritually born.......To say they are spiritually dead implies they have a spirit which died and spirits never die.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Vhayes View Post
                    There is body, spirit and soul - Adam and Eve did not physically die the instant they ate the fruit. God breathed spirit (life) into Adam - all people stop breathing at death. To me, it is the soul that "died" in Adam and Eve; they were no longer able to have communion with God. No longer could they walk in the garden with Him, talk to Him, learn from Him. God sacrificed an animal, blood was shed and they were "covered" by the sacrifice. Pictures of what Jesus has done for us.

                    V
                    The soul and spirit never die only the body.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                      when Adam ate the fruit did he only begin to die physically ?
                      Yes. His body became corruptable and the decaying process began.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        is the breath of life

                        and mans spirit

                        the same thing? does anyone have scripture for this?

                        also what does it mean to be dead in our tresspasses?

                        i think breath of life is just that. the ability to breath and be alive. I think we are spirtually dead to God at birth, reconnected by the Spirit when born again. New creature, new creation. Not renewed creation but brand new!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                          do not eat of the fruit, for in the day you do you will surely die

                          did God only mean physically die? please use Scripture to explain

                          when Adam ate the fruit did he only begin to die physically or did he also spiritually die?
                          I used to think it was spiritual death, however, I found some serious flaws with this position. One being, if this is spiritual death, it is a major theme throughout the Bible. It seems strange that it is "never" directly mentioned. Also, there is "no" mention in the Scriptures of spiritual death. Another is that the rich man who went to hell in Jesus parable was "not" spiritually dead. Another is, if this is spiritual death, that came through Adam's sin, where did physical death come from? Also as has been mentioned the phrase, in dying you will die, indicates that Adam began to die that day. However, Thaddeus posed a very plausible post to me regarding this, which I had never contemplated. Adam lived 930 years, consider what Peter said,

                          2 Peter 3:8 ( KJV ) 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

                          The same thing is said in,

                          Psalms 90:4 ( KJV ) 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

                          IF we apply this to what God said, Adam did die the same day.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Adam and Eve were not spiritually dead. In fact, Eve was a believer. God promised her that one day, a son of her's would arise to crush the head of the serpent, which she believed and trusted God.

                            The "death" Adam and Eve experienced was a "death" of their self-concept. That is, on the day they ate of the fruit, they realized that disobedience was something possible for them. Before that day, they had not known themselves as sinners.

                            It's like this. One day a boy goes to the store and takes a piece of candy. The day before the boy only knew his innocence. But the day he ate the stolen candy is the day he became a thief. After that, he could never claim to be innocent. The innocent boy he was, died that day.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                              I used to think it was spiritual death, however, I found some serious flaws with this position. One being, if this is spiritual death, it is a major theme throughout the Bible. It seems strange that it is "never" directly mentioned. Also, there is "no" mention in the Scriptures of spiritual death. Another is that the rich man who went to hell in Jesus parable was "not" spiritually dead. Another is, if this is spiritual death, that came through Adam's sin, where did physical death come from? Also as has been mentioned the phrase, in dying you will die, indicates that Adam began to die that day. However, Thaddeus posed a very plausible post to me regarding this, which I had never contemplated. Adam lived 930 years, consider what Peter said,

                              2 Peter 3:8 ( KJV ) 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

                              The same thing is said in,

                              Psalms 90:4 ( KJV ) 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

                              IF we apply this to what God said, Adam did die the same day.

                              this is what makes it so complicated. i believe what happens on the outside is an expression of the inside. i feel that somehow adam died inside. I want to believe it was spirtual death but like you say there is not alot of scripture spicifically mentioning spiritual death.

                              oh well, back to studying

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