Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The bible and wine/strong drink

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The bible and wine/strong drink

    ecclesiastes 9:7 Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do. (ESV)

    psalm 104:14-15:

    14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
    and plants for man to cultivate,
    that he may bring forth food from the earth
    15 and wine to gladden the heart of man,
    oil to make his face shine
    and bread to strengthen man's heart.(ESV)

    Deuteronomy 14:25-26

    25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. (ESV)

    Numbers 6:1-2 (nazarite vow)

    6:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, [1] to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.




    FIRST OFF! this not a thread to argue whether wine means grape juice in the Bible. The bible calls grape juice grape juice and calls wine wine and calls strong drink strong drink

    (some have argued that strong drink means something that is extemely sweet but i dont buy it lol)

    obviously we are not to get drunk. we are not to be wine-os and drunkards. we are not to be alcholics

    however we cannot say the Bible forbids wine

    so does this mean that drinking alcoholic drink is ok for Christians?

    please do not get into a cultural argument about Americans and how they drink and drive so therefore we Christians can't drink a glass of wine. There are obviously times and places and people we should not drink around for various reasons.


    The question here is what are the rules for Christian drinking

    There are at least two versus as i have stated that mention wine and a merry heart. We know that when people drink they laugh harder. So it seems as if a sort of "slight buzz" is not prohibited? a middle ground between stark drunk and drinking responsibly?

    also we all know there are many verses that warn us about drinking:

    wine is a brawler, and strong drink a mocker

    so you do not have to start posting all the warnings we know about

    also for those who think the wine in the bible is non-alcoholic

    how could non-alcoholic wine and strong drink cause someone to be a mocker and a brawler? Last time i drank some welchs grape juice i was quite fine haha

    but seriously, what are the biblical principles of alcoholic drink?


    ALSO, PLEASE DO NOT RUN OFF AND START RAMBLING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PREJUDICES AGAINST THIS SUBJECT

    this thread is made so that we can LOOK AT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, not your personal opinions

    thank you!

  • #2
    Originally posted by reformedct View Post
    ecclesiastes 9:7 Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do. (ESV)

    psalm 104:14-15:

    14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
    and plants for man to cultivate,
    that he may bring forth food from the earth
    15 and wine to gladden the heart of man,
    oil to make his face shine
    and bread to strengthen man's heart.(ESV)

    Deuteronomy 14:25-26

    25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. (ESV)

    Numbers 6:1-2 (nazarite vow)

    6:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, [1] to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.




    FIRST OFF! this not a thread to argue whether wine means grape juice in the Bible. The bible calls grape juice grape juice and calls wine wine and calls strong drink strong drink

    (some have argued that strong drink means something that is extemely sweet but i dont buy it lol)

    obviously we are not to get drunk. we are not to be wine-os and drunkards. we are not to be alcholics

    however we cannot say the Bible forbids wine

    so does this mean that drinking alcoholic drink is ok for Christians?

    please do not get into a cultural argument about Americans and how they drink and drive so therefore we Christians can't drink a glass of wine. There are obviously times and places and people we should not drink around for various reasons.


    The question here is what are the rules for Christian drinking

    There are at least two versus as i have stated that mention wine and a merry heart. We know that when people drink they laugh harder. So it seems as if a sort of "slight buzz" is not prohibited? a middle ground between stark drunk and drinking responsibly?

    also we all know there are many verses that warn us about drinking:

    wine is a brawler, and strong drink a mocker

    so you do not have to start posting all the warnings we know about

    also for those who think the wine in the bible is non-alcoholic

    how could non-alcoholic wine and strong drink cause someone to be a mocker and a brawler? Last time i drank some welchs grape juice i was quite fine haha

    but seriously, what are the biblical principles of alcoholic drink?


    ALSO, PLEASE DO NOT RUN OFF AND START RAMBLING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PREJUDICES AGAINST THIS SUBJECT

    this thread is made so that we can LOOK AT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, not your personal opinions

    thank you!

    ok, I wont argue

    Comment


    • #3
      Considering the harm drinking has caused to our society-I do not see any reason why a Bible believing Christian would drink at all. Why bother? It isn't bringing you closer to Christ-only closer to the world and it's ways.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
        Considering the harm drinking has caused to our society-I do not see any reason why a Bible believing Christian would drink at all. Why bother? It isn't bringing you closer to Christ-only closer to the world and it's ways.
        I do not think an occasional drink, be it wine, beer, or stronger, can make me closer to the world. My heart is totally dedicated to God, what goes in my body does not defile me one bit.

        Reading the word we see that its not drinking that is wrong. It's allowing drink to control us that is wrong.

        If you judge me in drink or food or sabbath days, than you show a weak faith. I judge nobody in these things. I just pray they have strength to keep it controlled.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
          Considering the harm drinking has caused to our society-I do not see any reason why a Bible believing Christian would drink at all. Why bother? It isn't bringing you closer to Christ-only closer to the world and it's ways.
          hello godsgirl,

          im not saying we become alcoholics. what i am referring to is responsible drinking. For example going out to dinner at an Italian restaurant and ordering a glass of wine.

          I may be wrong but i believe a glass of wine a day is actually good for your heart.

          I am not talking about drinking as the world does, but biblical drinking. It is in our bible so it is fair that we discuss it and not ignore it.

          just like sex, there is a right way and a wrong way to enjoy wine in the bible

          my quest is to find the biblical instructions on drinking. i understand that the world perverts drinking into something you do to get a girl to sleep with you or to pass out. that is drunkenness and forbidden and i am not saying we should do that at all

          Comment


          • #6
            juuuuuuusssttt igggggnnnnnnoooreee this random posst lol

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
              Considering the harm drinking has caused to our society-I do not see any reason why a Bible believing Christian would drink at all. Why bother? It isn't bringing you closer to Christ-only closer to the world and it's ways.
              Tee-totaling "values" have also caused great harm. Eve said "do not touch" and it didn't help her overcome her flesh. That's part of what Colossians is getting at.
              Matt 9:13
              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
              NASU

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                Considering the harm drinking has caused to our society-I do not see any reason why a Bible believing Christian would drink at all. Why bother? It isn't bringing you closer to Christ-only closer to the world and it's ways.
                Man has created false gods...does that mean we should not bother to serve the true God? God gave us the fruit of the vine, and we are commanded to remain sober. When others do not act accordingly, God does not have to validate their actions...but it doesn't change the fact that he created the fruit of the vine.

                Hold onto your socks...we actually use wine at our church services.

                Peace.
                Ken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                  Man has created false gods...does that mean we should not bother to serve the true God? God gave us the fruit of the vine, and we are commanded to remain sober. When others do not act accordingly, God does not have to validate their actions...but it doesn't change the fact that he created the fruit of the vine.

                  Hold onto your socks...we actually use wine at our church services.

                  Peace.
                  Ken

                  I see alcohol like I do many other things that Christians speak out against. We are afraid that something might control us rather than the Spirit of God be they demons, TV, sex, or music.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Matthew 15:11
                    Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

                    There is nothing about alcohol that defiles a man or gets him closer to the world. It's what is in a man's heart that brings about the disobedience that will defile. Folks who abuse alcohol do so because that is what is in their heart. Therefore, their actions show their heart condition. Those who love God will reject the lusts of the flesh, and they will obey God's will. God's will, however, does not say "Do not touch" or "Do not taste".
                    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                      I see alcohol like I do many other things that Christians speak out against. We are afraid that something might control us rather than the Spirit of God be they demons, TV, sex, or music.
                      I won't get into it here Mike, but that is what the first few verses of Romans 14 is talking about. "Doubtful Disputations," disputations is a word dealing with judicial actions. So Paul was talking about doubtful laws created by man to deal with people doing things they feel convicted of. Some churches oulaw drinking any strong drink, wine included. But the bible doesn't EVER prohibit it, it simply says to be of a sober mind. So a glass of wine is not an issue, getting drunk is.

                      But what has happened is that a man, for example a pastor, will have a problem with alchol or see that problem in others. So he makes a law for that church that says to have none. That is a doubtful disputation. 300 people attend the church, one has a problem, so that privelege is taken away from the rest.

                      If we have Messiah centered in our hearts and minds, having a glass of wine is not an issue. We know we won't take it to the next level. If you lack that ability to be able to keep from taking it to that next level, you should abstain....but you shouldn't try to make everyone else live by your conviction. (by "your" I speak in general, not YOU)

                      Peace.
                      Ken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeshua made the best wine ever tasted. and that from water. I can't wait!
                        Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think one thing to keep in mind is when the Bible refers to strong drink... what is it talking about.

                          Obviously as your mentioned we are not told thou shall not drink wine(alcoholic) period... and are warned about strong drink. So what was consider strong then? It was about 13 or so percent through the fermentation process which is all they had.

                          However today we have distillation which produces 50 proof 100 proof etc... I think if you are going to drink just keep in mind what the Bible states is strong drink and get the lower alcohol content drink to stay reasonable...

                          I'll state I don't think a Christian should drink at all due to 1st Peter 4:3 which states

                          "For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: (ASV)"

                          Notice the term winebibbing which is defined by yourdictionary as "wine drinker" another translation states "social drinking" instead of winebibbing, or banquetings... which seems to point to having a few with the buddies is wrong...

                          I'm still studying on the winebibbing and social drink really need to study the greek on this verse... so I don't feel I have a firm foundation to stay its a sin to drink period... but I would advise agasist it.
                          Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                          I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                            but seriously, what are the biblical principles of alcoholic drink?
                            Moderation. One specific verse comes to my mind.

                            1 Timothy 3:12
                            Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by uric3 View Post
                              I think one thing to keep in mind is when the Bible refers to strong drink... what is it talking about.

                              Obviously as your mentioned we are not told thou shall not drink wine(alcoholic) period... and are warned about strong drink. So what was consider strong then? It was about 13 or so percent through the fermentation process which is all they had.

                              However today we have distillation which produces 50 proof 100 proof etc... I think if you are going to drink just keep in mind what the Bible states is strong drink and get the lower alcohol content drink to stay reasonable...

                              I'll state I don't think a Christian should drink at all due to 1st Peter 4:3 which states

                              "For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: (ASV)"

                              Notice the term winebibbing which is defined by yourdictionary as "wine drinker" another translation states "social drinking" instead of winebibbing, or banquetings... which seems to point to having a few with the buddies is wrong...

                              I'm still studying on the winebibbing and social drink really need to study the greek on this verse... so I don't feel I have a firm foundation to stay its a sin to drink period... but I would advise agasist it.

                              yes you made a good point there

                              the strong drinks of today are far higher in alcoholic content, and can get you pretty messed up after only a few "shots", so we must be very discerning. One thing i find interesting about that verse is that winebibbing is listed among abominible idolateries, lasciviousness, and lusts, so i think winebibbers might be something more serious than just social drinking. Perhaps you can look at that verse in other translations such as kjv or esv to see if it uses a different word

                              paul actually told timothy to drink some wine for medicinal use

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X