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    I just started my section on separation from disobedient brethren and will be focusing on various texts (2 Thes 3:6,14-15, Rom 16:17-18, 1 Cor 5,etc).

    I do not believe its wise to separate entirely for all evangelicals and Charismatics,because God works in believers and when people get to heaven the only thing that will matter will be Jesus and what was done for him in the body. But none the less its Biblical to separate from disobedient brethren as commanded in the scriptures. But the question is how far will you go?

    In your churches and fellowships do you not associate with your disobedient? Would you not eat or drink or fellowship with them?

  • #2
    We go through a process. We don't just cast them out. We try love and instruction first. Our desire is to see them restored, rather than cast out to the dogs. We don't kick them while they're down, we don't cast stones at them for falling into the mire, and we don't hack their legs off for being deceived.
    Above all, we understand that those who have accepted Christ in their lives are in God's hands, Who is able to finish that which He began in them, and that He will not lose a SINGLE SHEEP.

    Comment


    • #3
      After Jesus told Peter "You will deny me" and Peter then pretty much called Jesus a liar, then the Lord ask Peter to "come and pray with me".

      I wonder if Jesus should have just separated from him.
      Matt 9:13
      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
      NASU

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not willing to discuss "them" vs. "me." ALL believers are disobedient to some degree. Where are you drawing the line?

        I keep trying to separate from myself....
        Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SIG View Post
          I'm not willing to discuss "them" vs. "me." ALL believers are disobedient to some degree. Where are you drawing the line?

          I keep trying to separate from myself....
          One on level this is hysterically funny while on another, it is so profound it made me almost cry.

          Well said, SIG! Well said!
          V
          I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
          - Mahatma Gandhi



          Comment


          • #6
            The ideal is Matt 18:15-18 and the restoration process. Thanks as I would do the same. Disobedient Evangelicals and Charismatics are in error because they do not take separation or the scriptures seriously and why Fundamentalist separate from them. but within a fellowship the ideal is to restore the disobedient.

            I personally do not believe in 100% of 2nd and 3rd degree separation.

            Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
            We go through a process. We don't just cast them out. We try love and instruction first. Our desire is to see them restored, rather than cast out to the dogs. We don't kick them while they're down, we don't cast stones at them for falling into the mire, and we don't hack their legs off for being deceived.
            Above all, we understand that those who have accepted Christ in their lives are in God's hands, Who is able to finish that which He began in them, and that He will not lose a SINGLE SHEEP.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
              We go through a process. We don't just cast them out. We try love and instruction first. Our desire is to see them restored, rather than cast out to the dogs. We don't kick them while they're down, we don't cast stones at them for falling into the mire, and we don't hack their legs off for being deceived.
              Above all, we understand that those who have accepted Christ in their lives are in God's hands, Who is able to finish that which He began in them, and that He will not lose a SINGLE SHEEP.
              The fear of the Lord will keep a man from evil. But it is the kindness of God that leads a man to repentance. Sometimes we get those things backwards.

              It was God's lovingkindness that led me to repent of sins after I was saved. Not fear. Proper fear just kept me from sinning in the first place.
              Matt 9:13
              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
              NASU

              Comment


              • #8
                Consider the context of the passage, and also consider the differences between personal and ecclesiastical separation. I do not believe entirely in personal separation, just as Jesus did not.

                There are Fundamentalist mission boards and schools that want their candidates to practice personal separation and I strongly disagree with them on this point as its not what Jesus taught.

                But separating from American Baptists, CBA, Calvary Chapel, and others that do not believe in the Doctrine of Sufficiency among others is warranted and is what Paul taught. But we are always welcome to restoration once they repent of their disobedience.

                Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                After Jesus told Peter "You will deny me" and Peter then pretty much called Jesus a liar, then the Lord ask Peter to "come and pray with me".

                I wonder if Jesus should have just separated from him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by poochie View Post
                  Consider the context of the passage, and also consider the differences between personal and ecclesiastical separation. I do not believe entirely in personal separation, just as Jesus did not.

                  There are Fundamentalist mission boards and schools that want their candidates to practice personal separation and I strongly disagree with them on this point as its not what Jesus taught.

                  But separating from American Baptists, CBA, Calvary Chapel, and others that do not believe in the Doctrine of Sufficiency among others is warranted and is what Paul taught. But we are always welcome to restoration once they repent of their disobedience.
                  Interestingly enough, when Jesus was here, he went to church with some folks that had really bad doctrine. He didn't go out and form a separate denomination or separate from the synagogue system.

                  So we have the example of Christ who asked Peter to pray with him. And then we have his example and how he regularly attended synagogues that were run by hypocrites.

                  I find it fascinating.
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mark what chapter and what verse says that the synagogue's that Christ attended had bad doctrine?

                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    Interestingly enough, when Jesus was here, he went to church with some folks that had really bad doctrine. He didn't go out and form a separate denomination or separate from the synagogue system.

                    So we have the example of Christ who asked Peter to pray with him. And then we have his example and how he regularly attended synagogues that were run by hypocrites.

                    I find it fascinating.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by poochie View Post
                      Mark what chapter and what verse says that the synagogue's that Christ attended had bad doctrine?
                      Well, the first one he preached at in Luke 4 tried to kill him and it was his local synagogue. How many of them did he preach at that had it wrong about the sabbath?
                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                        Well, the first one he preached at in Luke 4 tried to kill him and it was his local synagogue. How many of them did he preach at that had it wrong about the sabbath?
                        Mark you need to understand what Dispensationalism is. Christ lived in a culture, and that culture required the attendance at churches. In our day the culture does not require attendance at churches and we have the freedom of choice in a church. Also Christ lived before the Church age dispensation and therefore certain Hermeneutical methods cannot be applied to him. The Historical Grammatical approach must be utilized which means.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical-grammatical
                        The historical-grammatical method, also referred to as grammatico-historical or grammatical-critical, is a component of Biblical hermeneutics that strives to find the intended original meaning in the text. [1] This original intended meaning of the text is drawn out through examination of the passage in light of the grammatical and syntactical aspects, the historical background, the literary genre as well as theological (canonical) considerations.[2] The historical-grammatical method distinguishes between the one original meaning and the significance of the text. The significance of the text includes the ensuing use of the text or application.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by poochie View Post
                          Mark you need to understand what Dispensationalism is. Christ lived in a culture, and that culture required the attendance at churches. In our day the culture does not require attendance at churches and we have the freedom of choice in a church. Also Christ lived before the Church age dispensation and therefore certain Hermeneutical methods cannot be applied to him. The Historical Grammatical approach must be utilized which means.
                          Got it. In other words, if his example doesn't fit for us, we simply find another way to interpret it so we can have our own doctrine.
                          Matt 9:13
                          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                          NASU

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                            Got it. In other words, if his example doesn't fit for us, we simply find another way to interpret it so we can have our own doctrine.
                            Wrong.

                            Mark check out the book The Hermeneutical Spiral by Grant Osborne. Its a long and large book, but with it will youn understand how to read and interpret the Bible. Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by poochie View Post
                              Wrong.

                              Mark check out the book The Hermeneutical Spiral by Grant Osborne. Its a long and large book, but with it will youn understand how to read and interpret the Bible. Good luck!
                              I would rather use the rules of interpretation that Paul and Jesus used instead of using some rules a man made up.
                              Matt 9:13
                              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                              NASU

                              Comment

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