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  • Discussion Could Paul Be Disqualified?

    Last night I heard a preacher on the radio talk about the concept of salvation. He began by giving an outline of what salvation really is, listing three main divisions:

    1. Separation from the Judgment of sin - justification
    2. Separation from the Power of sin - sanctification
    3. Separation from the Presence of sin - glorification

    I like this outline, because it shows that salvation is not encompassed in a mere moment but is in fact a journey that is not fully complete until glorification takes place. It is not for nothing that the first Christians were called followers of "The Way" (Acts 9:2).

    The preacher then proceeded to 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, where Paul states that he disciplines his body and makes it a slave lest, after having preached to others, he himself might not be disqualified. Shockingly, he said that Paul was not referring to our salvation here but merely to our inheritance. We cannot lose our salvation but we can lose our inheritance!

    Now within the context of the verse, I have a hard time finding any justification for this conclusion. Both 1 Corinthians 9:24 and Hebrews 12:1 refer to our Christian walk as a 'race' that is to be completed. The material question to me here is this: What does it mean for a man to be disqualified? As far as a race is concerned, it means he is not allowed to complete the race and even if he does, his results will not be counted and he will be treated as though he never competed in the race. In the same way, Paul disciplines himself so that he might not be disqualified in this race of salvation. Paul is very aware that salvation is not a moment but a process, something that is not done and over with by saying a prayer but is only complete when Jesus returns and we are glorified with Him!

    Both the Old and New Testament give ample examples of people who started out on "The Way" but never actually made it to the finish line. Paul proceeds in 1 Corinthians 10 to give some examples of those people. In the first five verses of that chapter, Paul states that though the Israelites were baptized, drank spiritual drink and drank spiritual food and drank from the rock, which is Christ, God was still not pleased with them and they were laid low in the wilderness. After listing several sins that these Israelites committed, he says these things have happened as an example for us, then stating that we should be careful not to fall if we think we stand. The whole point Paul is making to the Corinthians here is that the possibility of being disqualified is present.

    You might argue that being laid low does not mean to lose their salvation or that falling in 1 Corinthians 10:13 doesn't refer to something more serious than just making a mistake. The context of the verses, however, state differently, and a difference in semantics cannot take away from the gravity of what Paul is saying here.

    A race is a race, a way is a way, and we have not arrived until we finish the race or reach our destination.

    In discussing this, I would like to stick to this verse and not digress into discussing every verse available on the topic. If you can show me from cross-references that being disqualified does indeed refer to losing your inheritance and not forfeiting your salvation, then please feel free to do so.

    I look forward to your input.
    Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

    Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

  • #2
    This is a matter that has dominated my thoughts for much of the past year. I almost preached on these verses as a challenging end to a sermon on discipline but ran out of time! But amazingly, a few weeks later, the visiting preacher spoke on them anyway and made the same points I was going to! God must have really wanted our folks to hear that truth!

    Yes, the Greek word for "disqualified" (sorry, don't have access to a Greek Lexicon here) means "castaway" or "reprobate" and is always used that way in other NT passages where it appears. As I'm sure you're aware, there are three views on the connection between perseverance and heavenly reward - the radio preacher is classic OSAS and you are correct to reject his teaching.

    The other views can be conjoined as follows - if Paul did not persevere to the end, he would be disqualified - lost - despite all he had done. The same applies to all of us. My own position is POTS, many others here would hold to NOSAS - either way, each view keeps us on our toes, whereas the OSAS view of the radio preacher is, I believe, responsible for much of what passes as Western Christianity today - where there is belief without obedience - how many millions are being deceived or deluded into a lost eternity by such teaching only the Day will reveal......

    Comment


    • #3
      My own position is POTS, many others here would hold to NOSAS
      What do "POTS" and "NOSAS" stand for?
      Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shepherdsword View Post
        What do "POTS" and "NOSAS" stand for?
        "Perseverance of the Saints" and "Not-Once Saved Always Saved"
        My Blog

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post

          In discussing this, I would like to stick to this verse and not digress into discussing every verse available on the topic. If you can show me from cross-references that being disqualified does indeed refer to losing your inheritance and not forfeiting your salvation, then please feel free to do so.

          I look forward to your input.
          Lets take a look at 1 Cor 9:27

          I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (HCSB)

          I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (KJV)

          The word disqualified or castaway, depending on the translation, in the Greek is adokimos which carries the following definitions.

          adokimos
          Thayer Definition:
          1) not standing the test, not approved
          1a) properly used of metals and coins
          2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought
          2a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

          Paul is concerned that his person should be a castaway, (not standing the test, being unfit, or reprobate) I believe he thinks it is possible that he could become unfit for the heavenly reward (v. 24). And in my opinion the heavenly reward is the hope of eternal life.
          If the Calvinistic Westminister Confession is true (that "God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"), then God ordained my disbelief of Calvinism.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
            In the same way, Paul disciplines himself so that he might not be disqualified in this race of salvation. Paul is very aware that salvation is not a moment but a process, something that is not done and over with by saying a prayer but is only complete when Jesus returns and we are glorified with Him!

            Both the Old and New Testament give ample examples of people who started out on "The Way" but never actually made it to the finish line. Paul proceeds in 1 Corinthians 10 to give some examples of those people. In the first five verses of that chapter, Paul states that though the Israelites were baptized, drank spiritual drink and drank spiritual food and drank from the rock, which is Christ, God was still not pleased with them and they were laid low in the wilderness. After listing several sins that these Israelites committed, he says these things have happened as an example for us, then stating that we should be careful not to fall if we think we stand. The whole point Paul is making to the Corinthians here is that the possibility of being disqualified is present.

            You might argue that being laid low does not mean to lose their salvation or that falling in 1 Corinthians 10:13 doesn't refer to something more serious than just making a mistake. The context of the verses, however, state differently, and a difference in semantics cannot take away from the gravity of what Paul is saying here.

            A race is a race, a way is a way, and we have not arrived until we finish the race or reach our destination.

            In discussing this, I would like to stick to this verse and not digress into discussing every verse available on the topic. If you can show me from cross-references that being disqualified does indeed refer to losing your inheritance and not forfeiting your salvation, then please feel free to do so.

            I look forward to your input.
            Greetings Pilgrimtozion,

            Throughout his epistles, we hear Paul speaking of his total security in Christ, and his absolute assurance of eternal life. Therefore if Paul were now teaching that we must not have this confidence in Christ because there is a possibility that we won't finish the race and receive the crown of everlasting life, then Paul is far too contradictory to follow.

            Paul, in this passage is making reference to athletes participating in sporting events. He uses the example of training for every athlete who participates in the games. The athlete must be mindful of the need to disicpline himself in food, drink, pleasures and idleness. He restricts himself to temperance and moderation in all things in order to win a temporary and corruptible crown. But the believer's faith, dedication, temperance and sacrifice are for a higher and nobler purpose; to gain an incorruptible crown (Heb 12:1,2).

            Paul doesn't run this race without keeping the goal and destination in mind, but as one who strives to cross the finish line. He says he does not box as a man shadow-boxes, who has no opponent, but only striking out at the air. Paul says he has a real enemy - the FLESH! Therefore he disciplines his flesh, his mind, and his body bringing them into subjection to the Spirit of Christ. Paul is not telling us to do this because if we do not we could lose our salvation, but because believers also know we too have an enemy that is very real - our FLESH! We must subdue the flesh with its desires and infirmities, lest while teaching others, we ourselves should fail the test and prove to be not saved at all...but reprobate.

            2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

            Paul implies, if such earnest, self-denying watchfulness over himself be needed still, with all his labors for others, to make his own calling sure, much more is the same needed by the Corinthians, instead of their going, as they do, to the extreme limit of Christian liberty.

            Believers will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Instead they will, like Paul examine themselves, and be constantly bringing the flesh under submission of the Spirit in them. In this they will have confidence, as does Paul, that we truly are in Christ, and walking in the Spirit.

            Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

            1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul

            This is a warning against false presumption, false confidence and indifference to holy conduct and practice. Lacking these things does not mean we will lose our salvation, but proves we are yet reprobates.

            Many Blessings,
            RW

            Comment


            • #7
              As a believer in eternal security because of this verse:

              Those whom he justified these he also glorified

              I think Paul was indeed refferring to his own salvation. But I dont believe he was saying a true Christian can lose their salvation.

              It is my interpretation that Paul was expressing how he keeps himself in check to make sure he also does not fall away.

              This does not mean a true believer can lose salvation. It simply means he was keeping an eye on himself as we all should. We must all make our calling and election sure by making sure we are growing everyday and perservering

              We must make sure not to take some verses more seriously than we should. For example Paul said he wish he was cut off so that his Jewish brothers could come to faith. But im sure Paul did not actually want to go to hell for someone else lol


              Even though i believe in eternal security, my mindset is just like Paul's. I must make sure that i am also not disqualified. Disqualified simply means not able to recieve because of a lack of a requirement or a violation of a rule. Every unbeliever has been disqualified from the eternal inheritance unless they repent and believe. Those that fall away are also disqualified. However as the Bible says, they went out from us because they were not of us. If they were of us, they would have remained


              God Bless

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                Last night I heard a preacher on the radio talk about the concept of salvation. He began by giving an outline of what salvation really is, listing three main divisions:

                1. Separation from the Judgment of sin - justification
                2. Separation from the Power of sin - sanctification
                3. Separation from the Presence of sin - glorification

                I like this outline, because it shows that salvation is not encompassed in a mere moment but is in fact a journey that is not fully complete until glorification takes place. It is not for nothing that the first Christians were called followers of "The Way" (Acts 9:2).

                The preacher then proceeded to 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, where Paul states that he disciplines his body and makes it a slave lest, after having preached to others, he himself might not be disqualified. Shockingly, he said that Paul was not referring to our salvation here but merely to our inheritance. We cannot lose our salvation but we can lose our inheritance!

                Now within the context of the verse, I have a hard time finding any justification for this conclusion. Both 1 Corinthians 9:24 and Hebrews 12:1 refer to our Christian walk as a 'race' that is to be completed. The material question to me here is this: What does it mean for a man to be disqualified? As far as a race is concerned, it means he is not allowed to complete the race and even if he does, his results will not be counted and he will be treated as though he never competed in the race. In the same way, Paul disciplines himself so that he might not be disqualified in this race of salvation. Paul is very aware that salvation is not a moment but a process, something that is not done and over with by saying a prayer but is only complete when Jesus returns and we are glorified with Him!

                Both the Old and New Testament give ample examples of people who started out on "The Way" but never actually made it to the finish line. Paul proceeds in 1 Corinthians 10 to give some examples of those people. In the first five verses of that chapter, Paul states that though the Israelites were baptized, drank spiritual drink and drank spiritual food and drank from the rock, which is Christ, God was still not pleased with them and they were laid low in the wilderness. After listing several sins that these Israelites committed, he says these things have happened as an example for us, then stating that we should be careful not to fall if we think we stand. The whole point Paul is making to the Corinthians here is that the possibility of being disqualified is present.

                You might argue that being laid low does not mean to lose their salvation or that falling in 1 Corinthians 10:13 doesn't refer to something more serious than just making a mistake. The context of the verses, however, state differently, and a difference in semantics cannot take away from the gravity of what Paul is saying here.

                A race is a race, a way is a way, and we have not arrived until we finish the race or reach our destination.

                In discussing this, I would like to stick to this verse and not digress into discussing every verse available on the topic. If you can show me from cross-references that being disqualified does indeed refer to losing your inheritance and not forfeiting your salvation, then please feel free to do so.

                I look forward to your input.
                No need to cross referenece, you have aleady nailed it in your commnetary.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                  This is a matter that has dominated my thoughts for much of the past year. I almost preached on these verses as a challenging end to a sermon on discipline but ran out of time! But amazingly, a few weeks later, the visiting preacher spoke on them anyway and made the same points I was going to! God must have really wanted our folks to hear that truth!

                  Yes, the Greek word for "disqualified" (sorry, don't have access to a Greek Lexicon here) means "castaway" or "reprobate" and is always used that way in other NT passages where it appears. As I'm sure you're aware, there are three views on the connection between perseverance and heavenly reward - the radio preacher is classic OSAS and you are correct to reject his teaching.

                  The other views can be conjoined as follows - if Paul did not persevere to the end, he would be disqualified - lost - despite all he had done. The same applies to all of us. My own position is POTS, many others here would hold to NOSAS - either way, each view keeps us on our toes, whereas the OSAS view of the radio preacher is, I believe, responsible for much of what passes as Western Christianity today - where there is belief without obedience - how many millions are being deceived or deluded into a lost eternity by such teaching only the Day will reveal......

                  Well said my friend.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I take a different view with all the above and don't necessarily think this it has to do with salvation at all. I think Paul is talking about his message...his good news. He is saying that if he doesn't practice what he preaches to others then others will "castaway" or "disqualify" what he is saying. He is castaway. Much of chapter 9of 1 Corinthians centers about the theme of practicing the Gospel one preaches (v. 13-14).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                      Greetings Pilgrimtozion,

                      Throughout his epistles, we hear Paul speaking of his total security in Christ, and his absolute assurance of eternal life. Therefore if Paul were now teaching that we must not have this confidence in Christ because there is a possibility that we won't finish the race and receive the crown of everlasting life, then Paul is far too contradictory to follow.

                      Paul, in this passage is making reference to athletes participating in sporting events. He uses the example of training for every athlete who participates in the games. The athlete must be mindful of the need to disicpline himself in food, drink, pleasures and idleness. He restricts himself to temperance and moderation in all things in order to win a temporary and corruptible crown. But the believer's faith, dedication, temperance and sacrifice are for a higher and nobler purpose; to gain an incorruptible crown (Heb 12:1,2).

                      Paul doesn't run this race without keeping the goal and destination in mind, but as one who strives to cross the finish line. He says he does not box as a man shadow-boxes, who has no opponent, but only striking out at the air. Paul says he has a real enemy - the FLESH! Therefore he disciplines his flesh, his mind, and his body bringing them into subjection to the Spirit of Christ. Paul is not telling us to do this because if we do not we could lose our salvation, but because believers also know we too have an enemy that is very real - our FLESH! We must subdue the flesh with its desires and infirmities, lest while teaching others, we ourselves should fail the test and prove to be not saved at all...but reprobate.

                      2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

                      Paul implies, if such earnest, self-denying watchfulness over himself be needed still, with all his labors for others, to make his own calling sure, much more is the same needed by the Corinthians, instead of their going, as they do, to the extreme limit of Christian liberty.

                      Believers will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Instead they will, like Paul examine themselves, and be constantly bringing the flesh under submission of the Spirit in them. In this they will have confidence, as does Paul, that we truly are in Christ, and walking in the Spirit.

                      Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

                      1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul

                      This is a warning against false presumption, false confidence and indifference to holy conduct and practice. Lacking these things does not mean we will lose our salvation, but proves we are yet reprobates.

                      Many Blessings,
                      RW

                      So, are you saying, Paul has total assurance of his salvation, yet admits that after preaching to all the others, he may still be a reprobate and not saved?

                      You said,

                      Rogerw---Throughout his epistles, we hear Paul speaking of his total security in Christ, and his absolute assurance of eternal life.
                      Paul speaks of his total assurance, then you said,

                      Rogerw---Paul says he has a real enemy - the FLESH! Therefore he disciplines his flesh, his mind, and his body bringing them into subjection to the Spirit of Christ. Paul is not telling us to do this because if we do not we could lose our salvation, but because believers also know we too have an enemy that is very real - our FLESH! We must subdue the flesh with its desires and infirmities, lest while teaching others, we ourselves should fail the test and prove to be not saved at all...but reprobate.
                      First you said Paul has assurance of his salvation, yet here you say, If Paul doesn't keep his body under control, he will prove that he is not saved.

                      If Paul is not saved how can he be an apostles of Christ?

                      Did Christ send out an apostle who was not saved?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                        So, are you saying, Paul has total assurance of his salvation, yet admits that after preaching to all the others, he may still be a reprobate and not saved?
                        No!

                        Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                        First you said Paul has assurance of his salvation, yet here you say, If Paul doesn't keep his body under control, he will prove that he is not saved.

                        If Paul is not saved how can he be an apostles of Christ?

                        Did Christ send out an apostle who was not saved?
                        Paul has complete confidence and assurance...he knows without doubting that he will complete the race set before him, and receive the crown of everlasting life. He makes this blessed assurance abundantly clear throughout his epistles.

                        Paul is NOT writing this as a warning for himself, he is writing to the Corinthian church, and anyone else who professes to be in Christ, but who does not bring the flesh into submission to the Holy Spirit. When one is controlled by the flesh instead of the Spirit they profess to possess, it is made manifest they do NOT possess the Holy Spirit at all; i.e. they are NOT SAVED! Paul is not concerned that some in the church may fall away and lose their salvation, he is concerned that though they profess saving faith, they are shown to be in unbelief because of factions, divisions, open sin, intellectualism, and all sorts of ideas and wrong practices allowed into their midst.

                        Paul uses the example of the Jews, who enjoyed great favor and privilege, but by their sin, idolatry and rebellion brought the judgment of God upon themselves. They thought they could live in the flesh, safe, secure and above their sins. These are an example to us. The punishment inflicted upon them was designed as instruction for us to avoid living like the world, but still believing we are secure in Christ. Through their punishment Paul seeks to warn us to avoid like sins in the flesh, because to live by the flesh is to die.

                        Commentary by Simon J. Kistemaker

                        "Paul places himself before his readers as an example. he controls his lifestyle in such a way that no one can accuse him of preaching the gospel while contradicting it by the life he leads. Paul exerts himself physically and mentally for teh benefit of the gospel; he shows his listeners that what he preaches to them is reality in his personal life."

                        "God elects a person in Christ and grants him or her the assurance of salvation. Conversely, God expects the believer in a test of faith to demonstrate a sincere desire to know His will, to obey His commands, to be thankful for His gift of salvation, to love God and one's neighbor, to have faith in God and hope to overcome trials. If the Christian's desire is cold and his heart callous, does he run the risk of losing his salvation? Paul does not teach that God's electing love exempts the believer from all responsibility and that without a test of faith God grants him or her the crown of eternal life. Not at all, for Paul exhorts the believers to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, becuase it is God who works in them to will and to work (Ph 2:12-13). Could Paul himself fall from grace and be disqualified? No, because he spared no effort to serve the Lord, preach the gospel, and live honorably before God and man. Elsewhere Paul warns the Corinthians to examine themselves so that they will not fail the test (see 2Co 13:5-7). Then he adds tha he and others have not failed it. Near the end of his life, Paul writes that he will receive the crown of righteousness that is in store for him (2Ti 4:8)."

                        2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
                        2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

                        Many Blessings,
                        RW

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          honestly we can debate this all day. Some people will not let go to what they believe because they believe that to be true. So we can argue and debate and pull up Scripture, but if we are not open to considering the poistions and opinions of others to see if maybe we are wrong what is the use??


                          i believe in eternal security

                          but i try to ALWAYS be open to the chance that maybe im wrong, and hear the case from those who believe conditional security. Through listening to others and reading Scripture for myself, i still believe in the security to the believer


                          This is what it boils down to:

                          Both eternal/conditional security believers agree that we must perservere

                          Eternal security believes that ultimately it is God who will cause us to perservere, because hose whom He justified these He also glorified, and He is at work in us, and He will be faithful to complete His work in us

                          Coditional security basically believes that man has the final say on if he will be saved.

                          Those who believe in conditional security are not crazy imo, because they are mannny verses that would seem to say a true Christian can lose their salvation, so if someone believes in conditional security i wouldnt go as far to scream heretic, but on the other hand i also believe conditional security is indeed false. Because salvation belongs to the Lord. It is His doing.

                          But either way, if you want to be strenghtened in your faith, please consider the chance that maybe you are wrong and reading things into Scripture that are not there. Take a good look at ALL the Scriptures that conflict with your beliefs. That is what i try to do. Not with the intention to manipulate the scriptures but honestly just read them at face value and not add things between the lines that are not said.


                          For those that believe in conditional security i would ask,

                          when the Bible says those whom He justified, these He also glorified, what does this mean to you? what do you think it means in terms of conditional security?

                          please understand that i am not trying to attack anybody here, just saying we should be open and consider that maybe what we think is not really proven by Scripture but rather assumed

                          God Bless

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                            No!



                            Paul has complete confidence and assurance...he knows without doubting that he will complete the race set before him, and receive the crown of everlasting life. He makes this blessed assurance abundantly clear throughout his epistles.

                            Paul is NOT writing this as a warning for himself, he is writing to the Corinthian church, and anyone else who professes to be in Christ, but who does not bring the flesh into submission to the Holy Spirit. When one is controlled by the flesh instead of the Spirit they profess to possess, it is made manifest they do NOT possess the Holy Spirit at all; i.e. they are NOT SAVED! Paul is not concerned that some in the church may fall away and lose their salvation, he is concerned that though they profess saving faith, they are shown to be in unbelief because of factions, divisions, open sin, intellectualism, and all sorts of ideas and wrong practices allowed into their midst.

                            Paul uses the example of the Jews, who enjoyed great favor and privilege, but by their sin, idolatry and rebellion brought the judgment of God upon themselves. They thought they could live in the flesh, safe, secure and above their sins. These are an example to us. The punishment inflicted upon them was designed as instruction for us to avoid living like the world, but still believing we are secure in Christ. Through their punishment Paul seeks to warn us to avoid like sins in the flesh, because to live by the flesh is to die.

                            Commentary by Simon J. Kistemaker

                            "Paul places himself before his readers as an example. he controls his lifestyle in such a way that no one can accuse him of preaching the gospel while contradicting it by the life he leads. Paul exerts himself physically and mentally for teh benefit of the gospel; he shows his listeners that what he preaches to them is reality in his personal life."

                            "God elects a person in Christ and grants him or her the assurance of salvation. Conversely, God expects the believer in a test of faith to demonstrate a sincere desire to know His will, to obey His commands, to be thankful for His gift of salvation, to love God and one's neighbor, to have faith in God and hope to overcome trials. If the Christian's desire is cold and his heart callous, does he run the risk of losing his salvation? Paul does not teach that God's electing love exempts the believer from all responsibility and that without a test of faith God grants him or her the crown of eternal life. Not at all, for Paul exhorts the believers to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, becuase it is God who works in them to will and to work (Ph 2:12-13). Could Paul himself fall from grace and be disqualified? No, because he spared no effort to serve the Lord, preach the gospel, and live honorably before God and man. Elsewhere Paul warns the Corinthians to examine themselves so that they will not fail the test (see 2Co 13:5-7). Then he adds tha he and others have not failed it. Near the end of his life, Paul writes that he will receive the crown of righteousness that is in store for him (2Ti 4:8)."

                            2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
                            2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

                            Many Blessings,
                            RW
                            How then would Paul be disqualified?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              honestly we can debate this all day. Some people will not let go to what they believe because they believe that to be true. So we can argue and debate and pull up Scripture, but if we are not open to considering the poistions and opinions of others to see if maybe we are wrong what is the use??
                              i believe in eternal security
                              but i try to ALWAYS be open to the chance that maybe im wrong, and hear the case from those who believe conditional security. Through listening to others and reading Scripture for myself, i still believe in the security to the believer
                              This is what it boils down to:
                              Both eternal/conditional security believers agree that we must perservere
                              Eternal security believes that ultimately it is God who will cause us to perservere, because hose whom He justified these He also glorified, and He is at work in us, and He will be faithful to complete His work in us
                              Coditional security basically believes that man has the final say on if he will be saved.
                              Those who believe in conditional security are not crazy imo, because they are mannny verses that would seem to say a true Christian can lose their salvation, so if someone believes in conditional security i wouldnt go as far to scream heretic, but on the other hand i also believe conditional security is indeed false. Because salvation belongs to the Lord. It is His doing.
                              But either way, if you want to be strenghtened in your faith, please consider the chance that maybe you are wrong and reading things into Scripture that are not there. Take a good look at ALL the Scriptures that conflict with your beliefs. That is what i try to do. Not with the intention to manipulate the scriptures but honestly just read them at face value and not add things between the lines that are not said.
                              For those that believe in conditional security i would ask,
                              when the Bible says those whom He justified, these He also glorified, what does this mean to you? what do you think it means in terms of conditional security?
                              please understand that i am not trying to attack anybody here, just saying we should be open and consider that maybe what we think is not really proven by Scripture but rather assumed
                              God Bless

                              I believe I have already addressed those verses. They are in Romans 8, verses 29 and 30. Notice all of the verbs are past tense, this whole sequence is a completed act of God. It has already been accomplished, the word glorified is not speaking of a future glorification that is certain. It is speaking of a past glorification that is already complete. Verses 29 and 30, are the evidence to prove verse 28. Paul is telling the persecuted Christians at Rome, that God will work everything for their good. He tells them to look to the past at what God has already done as proof that He will work all things for good on their behalf. Paul says, for those He (God) foreknew He predestined. The Greek word for foreknew is "Proginosko", Pro, meaning before and Ginosko, meaning know. So, who are these people that God knew before. There are actually two questions that need to be addressed here, One is, who are these people, and the other is, God knew them before what or when? Let's deal with the second question first as it will bear on the first. Before what or when? Paul says those God knew before. He gives us no descriptive terms, therefore we can only conclude that Paul is referring to his present time. So Paul is basically saying those God knew before right now (the present in Paul's day). Those God knew before the time that Paul was writing his epistle to the Romans. Many will say that this is a reference to a time before the foundation of the world, however there is absolutely nothing in the context of this passage that warrants that interpretation, or even hints at it. So, now that we have established the what and when, let's deal with the other question. Who were these people the God knew before Paul was writing his letter to the Romans? We know from the previous verse that they loved God, so, these would be people such as Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, etc. They all loved God. Now, let's apply this to the Scripture verses. Paul says in verse 29, those God foreknew, He predestined, or predetermined, to be conformed to the image of His Son. These same people God called. The Greek word translated called is also translated 'to invite'. So, who did God call? Let's look back at verse 28,

                              Romans 8:28 ( KJV ) 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

                              The called are those who love God. Paul says that God will work all things together for good for those who love God. To prove this point to the Christians at Rome, Paul makes another statement, He says,

                              Romans 8:29-30 ( KJV ) 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

                              God has done all of these things for Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, etc. He has called, justified, and glorified, them. That is why all of the verbs are in the past tense. God has already done them. Paul is saying to the Christians at Rome look, God had done this for them, He will do it for you also.

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