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  • Justice and Holiness?

    Wiil there ever be a time when God won't need to be Holy and Just?

  • #2
    Originally posted by mikebr View Post
    Wiil there ever be a time when God won't need to be Holy and Just?
    in my opinion absolutely not... God is always holy and just and he never suspends those attributes even when he may be acting in a way that in our own human understanding seems to contradict it... His mercy is his justice, his justice is his holiness... he is eternal he knows no beginning and no end... he will never stop being anything other than what he is... he is unchanging
    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
      Wiil there ever be a time when God won't need to be Holy and Just?

      Hmmmmm.... interesting question.

      Will there be a time when God won't NEED to be Holy & just?
      My current feelings are, "No. There WON'T be a time when he doesn't need to be...." Only because, God's nature IS Holy & just. Anything else would be against, or the opposite of his nature.

      That's my thought anyway.
      Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
      _______________________________________________
      There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

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      • #4
        Maybe a better question would be would there every be a time when God won't display his holiness and justice.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by markdrums View Post
          Hmmmmm.... interesting question.

          Will there be a time when God won't NEED to be Holy & just?
          My current feelings are, "No. There WON'T be a time when he doesn't need to be...." Only because, God's nature IS Holy & just. Anything else would be against, or the opposite of his nature.

          That's my thought anyway.
          i totally agree

          everything he does is an outflow of who he is... and he is truly unsearchable
          The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mikebr View Post
            Maybe a better question would be would there every be a time when God won't display his holiness and justice.
            i seriously doubt it.. everything he does is an outflow of who he is... we only know his holiness because he's displayed his holiness in a way that can relate to us... otherwise holiness would just be a lifeless term... We only know justice in the context of what God has related to us now... otherwise it would just be a word to us... and I believe we will be seeing new revelation of his holiness and justice for all eternity... the angels have been around his throne crying out Holy Holy Holy forever... and I don't think they or we will stop saying that...
            The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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            • #7
              Thanks for your responses. Now What is the purpose of God's holiness and justice?

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              • #8
                No, God doesn't choose to be just and holy. God is just and Holy. he cannot choose to be anything other than what he is. Imagine if God were water.
                he might be steam, ice or water, but his nature is still water.
                He can change his form and he may change how he interacts with a container for example, but in the end, he cannot be chocolate pudding.
                (Although he might choose the form, he would still BE water.)
                God can choose to love, but he cannot choose to love and be unjust or unholy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tt1106 View Post
                  No, God doesn't choose to be just and holy. God is just and Holy. he cannot choose to be anything other than what he is. Imagine if God were water.
                  he might be steam, ice or water, but his nature is still water.
                  He can change his form and he may change how he interacts with a container for example, but in the end, he cannot be chocolate pudding.
                  (Although he might choose the form, he would still BE water.)
                  God can choose to love, but he cannot choose to love and be unjust or unholy.
                  If God can choose not to love why can't He choose to be unjust or unholy? Aren't all three attributes of God?
                  The Bible says that God is Love.

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                  • #10
                    You are right. I phrased that incorrectly. I shoudn't have put it that way. When I think of God, I think of him as this perfectly white light. The purest white light that anybody could ever conceive of. That light is his holiness. Our souls are darkness. In order for us to be allowed in the same room with God, we have to be transformed from darkness to light. Jesus does that for us, when we are obedient to him. God doesn't need to be holy and just he is Holy and Just. Therefore we need a booster shot because if we entered the same room as God with our evilness we would be obliterated.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                      If God can choose not to love why can't He choose to be unjust or unholy? Aren't all three attributes of God?
                      The Bible says that God is Love.

                      I don't think God chooses not to love either....

                      In fact, he loves us SOOOO much, that he was willing to let US choose whether or not we want to have a relationship with him. And then actualize our choices for eternity, instead of dragging someone against their will, into his presence.

                      I also think your original question took a turn.

                      It went from "..... Need to be" to "Displaying Holiness & Justness"... to "actually BEING Unholy or Unjust".

                      I know it's hard for US to understand how God IS, WAS, and ALWAYS WILL BE exactly the same, no matter what. Especially since we (And yes, I mean ME TOO) can go from love, to hatred, to vengance, to forgiveness, to "take back forgiveness, because I changed my mind", to "OK, I forgive you again."... etc.....
                      LOL!

                      But no. I God will not go against his own nature.


                      Know what I mean?
                      Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                      _______________________________________________
                      There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The problem is that we expect God not to love. We imagine that His love is conditional yet we don't believe that His holiness and justice are condtional. In other words some would argue that God hates the unregenerate; that His love is conditional yet no one would say that His holiness is conditional yet love in scripture seems to be His greatest attribute.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                          The problem is that we expect God not to love. We imagine that His love is conditional yet we don't believe that His holiness and justice are condtional. In other words some would argue that God hates the unregenerate; that His love is conditional yet no one would say that His holiness is conditional yet love in scripture seems to be His greatest attribute.

                          The first part of your post sums it all up.
                          The "problem" is US; Along with what we imagine & believe/don't believe.

                          Someday we'll better understand our ONE TRUE GOD. But currently, we're extremely limited in what we can comprehend about him, and his nature.

                          The good news? We'll have an ETERNITY to learn about him & from him; getting to know him more fully, and exploring the infinite ends of the new Heavens & Earth.

                          But for now, we still wonder "How can he be completely unchangeable???? How can he be ABSOLUTE in fairness & judgment??? How can he EQUALLY love all of us, even though we fall short on a daily basis???"

                          But remember, one day we'll have a chance to ask him!
                          Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                          _______________________________________________
                          There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                            The first part of your post sums it all up.
                            The "problem" is US; Along with what we imagine & believe/don't believe.

                            Someday we'll better understand our ONE TRUE GOD. But currently, we're extremely limited in what we can comprehend about him, and his nature.

                            The good news? We'll have an ETERNITY to learn about him & from him; getting to know him more fully, and exploring the infinite ends of the new Heavens & Earth.

                            But for now, we still wonder "How can he be completely unchangeable???? How can he be ABSOLUTE in fairness & judgment??? How can he EQUALLY love all of us, even though we fall short on a daily basis???"

                            But remember, one day we'll have a chance to ask him!

                            I totally agree with you post. The problem is that we are telling people on a weekly basis that God's love is conditional based on everything from church attendance to baptism. I asked my Sunday school class one time if they would continue to come to church if they knew it wouldn't change the way God felt about them. They were dumbfounded.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                              I don't think God chooses not to love either....

                              In fact, he loves us SOOOO much, that he was willing to let US choose whether or not we want to have a relationship with him. And then actualize our choices for eternity, instead of dragging someone against their will, into his presence.

                              I also think your original question took a turn.

                              It went from "..... Need to be" to "Displaying Holiness & Justness"... to "actually BEING Unholy or Unjust".

                              I know it's hard for US to understand how God IS, WAS, and ALWAYS WILL BE exactly the same, no matter what. Especially since we (And yes, I mean ME TOO) can go from love, to hatred, to vengance, to forgiveness, to "take back forgiveness, because I changed my mind", to "OK, I forgive you again."... etc.....
                              LOL!

                              But no. I God will not go against his own nature.


                              Know what I mean?
                              Yes these posts have a way making a life of their own. But yes my question was meant to look at a time when God will be all in all, in eternity future. When there's no more faith, hope will no longer be an issue, when only love will remain will God need to exhibit His holiness and justice. Will wrath be an issue? Will we need laws?

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