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  • Question On Baptism

    Should infants be baptized?

    I assume (yikes!) most people here would say no. I would as well. So, if it's true that baptism is only for people who believe, then aren't there a whole bunch of people in the world who believe but aren't baptized?

    What I mean is that Catholics and a lot of Reformed folk believe in infant baptism. So when the infant grows up to be a believer they don't feel the need to be baptized since they were baptized as a baby. If believer's baptism is true then wouldn't these people be considered unbaptized?
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  • #2
    Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
    Should infants be baptized?

    I assume (yikes!) most people here would say no. I would as well. So, if it's true that baptism is only for people who believe, then aren't there a whole bunch of people in the world who believe but aren't baptized?

    What I mean is that Catholics and a lot of Reformed folk believe in infant baptism. So when the infant grows up to be a believer they don't feel the need to be baptized since they were baptized as a baby. If believer's baptism is true then wouldn't these people be considered unbaptized?
    Mark 16:16-"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

    The most important thing is believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose again. When we are baptized as believers we are recognizing these things as true.
    A baby cannot do this. A baby's baptism has no merit in God's eyes whatsoever.
    I was baptized as a baby. When I came to know Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, I was baptized as a believer. One had nothing to do with the other.
    As a matter of fact, I was saved through a tract given to me.
    On the outside it said, "Where in the Bible does it speak of infant baptism?"
    When you open it, it reads "nowhere."

    I have that tract in a frame to this day.

    .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

    ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
    .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a



    Comment


    • #3
      one baptism

      there is a debate as to which baptism Eph 4:5One Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism,


      Lu 3:16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed BAPTIZE you with WATER; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall BAPTIZE you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
      I think the latter myself
      Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


      Pastor Keith

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
        Should infants be baptized?

        I assume (yikes!) most people here would say no. I would as well. So, if it's true that baptism is only for people who believe, then aren't there a whole bunch of people in the world who believe but aren't baptized?

        What I mean is that Catholics and a lot of Reformed folk believe in infant baptism. So when the infant grows up to be a believer they don't feel the need to be baptized since they were baptized as a baby. If believer's baptism is true then wouldn't these people be considered unbaptized?
        I think that if someone was baptised as an infant, and grows up to be a believer then it is up to them to pray and ask the Lord if they should be re-baptised. If the Lord convicts them to do so, then they should. If He does not convict them to do so, then it is not for other people to judge. I imagine there are many people who were baptised as infants who are dear believers. They may not have ever heard believer's baptism explained properly or they may not understand it. But the Lord knows their hearts and their situations. I think we should explain believer's baptism to other believers who do not know about it and pray that they will chose to be baptised, but it must be their decision lead by the Lord.
        ...be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man, that Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be full of strength to apprehend with all the saints what the breadth and length and height and depth are and to know the knowledge-surpassing love of Christ, that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God. Eph. 3:16-19

        Comment


        • #5
          Baptism in the Catholic church believes that it washes your sin away. This is not true.
          baptizo, "baptism" means to dip or immerse. The Catholic church sprinkles.

          Baptism in no way washes away your sin. You are identifying yourself with the death,burial and Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
          A baby is not capable of making that kind of decision to identify oneself.
          .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

          ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
          .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a



          Comment


          • #6
            I'll go against the tide and say yes. Unfortunately, it's getting late (happy new year!), so I'll just post a link to the infant baptism form from the Blue Psalter Hymnal which makes a good case for infant baptism. (This is the only link I could find with it.)

            http://www.thirdmill.org/files/engli...baptism.1.html

            Also, here is Heidelberg Catechism Q&A 74 (with citations!), which
            asks about infant baptism.

            Q. Should infants, too, be baptized?

            A. Yes. Infants as well as adults belong to God's covenant and congregation.[1] Through Christ's blood the redemption from sin and the Holy Spirit, who works faith, are promised to them no less than to adults.[2] Therefore, by baptism, as sign of the covenant, they must be grafted into the Christian church and distinguished from the children of unbelievers.[3] This was done in the old covenant by circumcision,[4] in place of which baptism was instituted in the new covenant.[5]

            [1] Gen. 17:7; Matt. 19:14. [2] Ps. 22:11; Is. 44:1-3; Acts 2:38, 39; 16:31. [3] Acts 10:47; I Cor. 7:14. [4] Gen. 17:9-14. [5] Col. 2: 11-13.
            This will give you something to look over for a while. Hopefully, I will have more time tomarrow (today? ) to discuss this.
            What I believe: Heidelberg Catechism | Canons of Dordt | Belgic Confession

            Comment


            • #7
              Water baptism is not necessary at all !

              Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and "Fire" < Fire, not water !

              Comment


              • #8
                Firstly a quick answer to Mysteryman's last comment - I believe you are wrong for many biblical reasons, not least Matthew 28:19 where Jesus says, 'Go therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit.' How are we to baptise anyone with 'fire' only God can, so it must refer to water baptism.

                Next may I turn my thoughts to infant baptism, a subject i felt some pain over some months ago and shared on this site.

                karenoka27 speaks a lot of sense/ truth - however i would like her and others to consider some of what i am about to say.

                I was baptised into the church of Jesus Christ via the Anglican denomination at a few days old. I totally agree that this was not either a baptism of repentance or a total emersion baptism. My parents spoke the words and also my God- parents.
                Later at 11 i was confirmed. Made the commitment myself (no), and i have admitted before that again i just did what mum & dad and the priest told me to do. 2 years later i stopped going to church and lost another 17 years of my life to non belief.

                At 30 i read the bible alone and accepted gospel truth and i believe at that point recieved the Holy Spirit - that God/ Jesus baptised me with fire.

                It is under 6 months since i became a church regular. Before that i went to more services than i ever realised or admitted, just not regularly.

                The church I returned to is Anglican. I have at this present time, put myself under the authority of an Anglican church. I am open to our Lord at a future date calling me to another church of any denomination - his Will, not mine. I attend many churches of many denominations and am building friendships in many churches.

                But and this is important, i have entered into a relationship with brothers & sisters at that Anglican church and have accepted the authority of those in charge there and the denomination.

                I contacted the national authority of the Church of England/ Anglican denomination and told them how i felt about my baptism/ confirmation. They clearly replied that a second baptism is not possible in the Anglican church. I have to accept their decision.

                Once a year in the Anglican church (only once i think, i'm not an authority on these matters) we have a chance as adults to renew our baptismal vows. Which i did in 2008. I prayed for our Lord to hear my personal turning to him again.

                If we are to accept people of all denominations, which i do, then we have to listen to their personal faith and how they express it. Would i prefered to have had a full emersion baptism and repented of my sins, the answer is 'yes.'

                Will i disobey the authority of my church the answer is 'no.' Will i make other people with infant baptism feel less equal 'no.' In the same way that i won't demand that others have a new full emersion baptism or recite the believers prayer, because i believe their life doesn't live up to what i expect of a brother or sister.

                There are NOT a lot of people with infant baptism who are not baptised. There are many who have not known our Lord though. Also many who long to be accept by people who believe they have a 'superior' baptism.

                All the sacrifices, all the baptisms, all the spiritual gifts are of little value without love. As long as the person comes to a point of understanding and personally accepting the Cross, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ they are my brother/ sister.

                I am sorry if this seperates me from anyone on these forums. Truely sorry. SofTy.
                1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                KJV

                May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Baptism

                  Originally posted by Mysteryman View Post
                  Water baptism is not necessary at all !

                  Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and "Fire" < Fire, not water !


                  While most do not recognize this, there are several different baptisms in the Bible. And many simply do not understand the purpose of baptism. Or that not every baptism has to do with water. But, beware - you have probably opened a great big can of worms here. I have been severely attacked by those who believe that salvation doesn't "take" if you're not water baptized.

                  So, brace yourself. And prepare for the "battle."

                  God Bless.
                  "I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High." Psalm 9:2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ServantofTruth View Post
                    Firstly a quick answer to Mysteryman's last comment - I believe you are wrong for many biblical reasons, not least Matthew 28:19 where Jesus says, 'Go therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit.' How are we to baptise anyone with 'fire' only God can, so it must refer to water baptism.

                    Next may I turn my thoughts to infant baptism, a subject i felt some pain over some months ago and shared on this site.

                    karenoka27 speaks a lot of sense/ truth - however i would like her and others to consider some of what i am about to say.

                    I was baptised into the church of Jesus Christ via the Anglican denomination at a few days old. I totally agree that this was not either a baptism of repentance or a total emersion baptism. My parents spoke the words and also my God- parents.
                    Later at 11 i was confirmed. Made the commitment myself (no), and i have admitted before that again i just did what mum & dad and the priest told me to do. 2 years later i stopped going to church and lost another 17 years of my life to non belief.

                    At 30 i read the bible alone and accepted gospel truth and i believe at that point recieved the Holy Spirit - that God/ Jesus baptised me with fire.

                    It is under 6 months since i became a church regular. Before that i went to more services than i ever realised or admitted, just not regularly.

                    The church I returned to is Anglican. I have at this present time, put myself under the authority of an Anglican church. I am open to our Lord at a future date calling me to another church of any denomination - his Will, not mine. I attend many churches of many denominations and am building friendships in many churches.

                    But and this is important, i have entered into a relationship with brothers & sisters at that Anglican church and have accepted the authority of those in charge there and the denomination.

                    I contacted the national authority of the Church of England/ Anglican denomination and told them how i felt about my baptism/ confirmation. They clearly replied that a second baptism is not possible in the Anglican church. I have to accept their decision.

                    Once a year in the Anglican church (only once i think, i'm not an authority on these matters) we have a chance as adults to renew our baptismal vows. Which i did in 2008. I prayed for our Lord to hear my personal turning to him again.

                    If we are to accept people of all denominations, which i do, then we have to listen to their personal faith and how they express it. Would i prefered to have had a full emersion baptism and repented of my sins, the answer is 'yes.'

                    Will i disobey the authority of my church the answer is 'no.' Will i make other people with infant baptism feel less equal 'no.' In the same way that i won't demand that others have a new full emersion baptism or recite the believers prayer, because i believe their life doesn't live up to what i expect of a brother or sister.

                    There are NOT a lot of people with infant baptism who are not baptised. There are many who have not known our Lord though. Also many who long to be accept by people who believe they have a 'superior' baptism.

                    All the sacrifices, all the baptisms, all the spiritual gifts are of little value without love. As long as the person comes to a point of understanding and personally accepting the Cross, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ they are my brother/ sister.

                    I am sorry if this seperates me from anyone on these forums. Truely sorry. SofTy.

                    Your testimony touched my heart. I don't know anything about renewing "baptism vows." Never heard of those, but please know that God knows our heart, and no matter if and when we were baptised, if we believe that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again, and if we have trusted Him to be our Lord and Savior, we are saved! It doesn't matter the traditions or rituals of the church about infant baptism or baptism as an adult.

                    Keep looking up. God's will is that you trust Christ, not depend on the "rituals" of any denomination.

                    God Bless.
                    "I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High." Psalm 9:2

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by graceforme View Post
                      While most do not recognize this, there are several different baptisms in the Bible. And many simply do not understand the purpose of baptism. Or that not every baptism has to do with water. But, beware - you have probably opened a great big can of worms here. I have been severely attacked by those who believe that salvation doesn't "take" if you're not water baptized.

                      So, brace yourself. And prepare for the "battle."

                      God Bless.
                      Thanks for the heads up, but my faith is not wavered by what other people think.

                      My reading of scripture seems very clear to me, that when Jesus spoke just before his ascention, that he made it perfectly clear. John baptized with water. Not Sam, or George, or anyone else. Just John !

                      And John the baptist made it also perfectly clear that he who comes after him , will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus does the baptizing and no one else.

                      Even Paul said that the Lord did not send him to baptize. Now, meaning the Church, only baptizes by name, in the Name of Jesus Christ. All else is an assumption by others to even think that water is envolved.

                      Baptizing by the name of, not "with" anything. Jesus is doing the actual baptizing . And it is clear that he baptizes with the Holy Spirit and "fire", not water !

                      On this , I stand my ground of faith, and will not waver.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Acts 8:27-39 (WEB)

                        8:27 He arose and went; and behold, there was a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship. 8:28 He was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.

                        8:29 The Spirit said to Philip, “Go near, and join yourself to this chariot.”

                        8:30 Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

                        8:31 He said, “How can I, unless someone explains it to me?” He begged Philip to come up and sit with him. 8:32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this,

                        “He was led as a sheep to the slaughter.
                        As a lamb before his shearer is silent,

                        so he doesn’t open his mouth.
                        8:33 In his humiliation, his judgment was taken away.
                        Who will declare His generation?

                        For his life is taken from the earth.”
                        8:34 The eunuch answered Philip, “Who is the prophet talking about? About himself, or about someone else?”

                        8:35 Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached to him Jesus. 8:36 As they went on the way, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Behold, here is water. What is keeping me from being baptized?”

                        [8:37 Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." He answered, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] 8:38 He commanded the chariot to stand still, and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

                        8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, and the eunuch didn’t see him any more, for he went on his way rejoicing.
                        Not only did Philip baptize this eunuch with water, but in verse 29 it says that the Spirit led Philip to this place and situation.

                        Also, the water used baptism is a sign and seal (as it is a sacrament), just like the bread and wine (some would say grape juice) in the Lord's Supper.

                        1st Peter 3:13-22 (WEB)

                        3:13 Now who is he who will harm you, if you become imitators of that which is good? 3:14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “Don’t fear what they fear, neither be troubled.”* 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, with humility and fear: 3:16 having a good conscience; that, while you are spoken against as evildoers, they may be disappointed who curse your good way of life in Christ. 3:17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, that you suffer for doing well than for doing evil. 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 3:19 in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison, 3:20 who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 3:21 This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you—not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 3:22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him.
                        What I believe: Heidelberg Catechism | Canons of Dordt | Belgic Confession

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mysteryman View Post
                          Thanks for the heads up, but my faith is not wavered by what other people think.

                          My reading of scripture seems very clear to me, that when Jesus spoke just before his ascention, that he made it perfectly clear. John baptized with water. Not Sam, or George, or anyone else. Just John !

                          And John the baptist made it also perfectly clear that he who comes after him , will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus does the baptizing and no one else.

                          Even Paul said that the Lord did not send him to baptize. Now, meaning the Church, only baptizes by name, in the Name of Jesus Christ. All else is an assumption by others to even think that water is envolved.

                          Baptizing by the name of, not "with" anything. Jesus is doing the actual baptizing . And it is clear that he baptizes with the Holy Spirit and "fire", not water !

                          On this , I stand my ground of faith, and will not waver.

                          When does this baptism that Jesus performs, happen?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by karenoka27 View Post
                            Baptism in the Catholic church believes that it washes your sin away. This is not true.
                            baptizo, "baptism" means to dip or immerse. The Catholic church sprinkles.

                            Baptism in no way washes away your sin. You are identifying yourself with the death,burial and Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
                            A baby is not capable of making that kind of decision to identify oneself.

                            Acts 22:16 ( KJV ) 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


                            Acts 2:38 ( KJV ) 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Should infants be baptised? - a baptism question. May i respectfully suggest we return to the original question and if you wish to discuss another issue you open your own new topic. SofTy.
                              1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                              Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                              KJV

                              May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                              Comment

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