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Does God really see us as perfect?

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  • Does God really see us as perfect?

    This has been bugging me lately.

    The Bible says we are perfected forever by the sacrifice of Jesus

    But it also says God scourges whom He loves.

    So how is it that God sees us as perfect but at the same time sees when we sin? How can He see us sin but at the same time see us as perfect?

  • #2
    I believe it's because God sees us in light of eternity.. Whereas we only see now, God is transcendent time doesn't matter to him... God delights in us now but not necessarily in our compromise but there's a process that he takes us through... he calls things in us that are not as if they were... that's true prophecy...

    So, while we are forever made righteous in Christ by his blood made perfect and sinless in God's eyes, we in our own lives must live in agreement with that that we are free and dead to sin... it's part of the flesh/spirit struggle... which are you going to agree with daily... where's your focus? your righteousness or the righteousness of God... When God says we're righteous we're righeous and by agreeing with God that he has made us righteous we are in fact warring with the flesh and the sin that is still ensnaring us without even realizing it
    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

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    • #3
      Originally posted by reformedct View Post
      This has been bugging me lately.

      The Bible says we are perfected forever by the sacrifice of Jesus

      But it also says God scourges whom He loves.

      So how is it that God sees us as perfect but at the same time sees when we sin? How can He see us sin but at the same time see us as perfect?
      I think it has to do with how the body, soul and spirit appear to God. The spirit, that which is born of God, does not sin. The soul, still needs to be saved and that is the process of sanctification. As the soul learns to operate more at the will of the Spirit, then the fruit of the Spirit is more apparent.

      So our spirit is perfect but our soul requires pruning and chastisement.
      Matt 9:13
      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
      NASU

      Comment


      • #4
        The Beauty of the Gospel of Christ is that it exalts Christ and him making us righteous in him and purifying us... it's his work in us not us making ourselves righteous... all we say to God is yes and keep saying yes... he does the work in us... and all i do to make myself righteous is agree with him
        The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
          I think it has to do with how the body, soul and spirit appear to God. The spirit, that which is born of God, does not sin. The soul, still needs to be saved and that is the process of sanctification. As the soul learns to operate more at the will of the Spirit, then the fruit of the Spirit is more apparent.

          So our spirit is perfect but our soul requires pruning and chastisement.


          Ditto, exactly, You betcha, etc., etc...

          Comment


          • #6
            Good replies so far!

            I'll just say that I believe we're all "tested" from time to time. Because the end result is always a gain of wisdom. Whether we learn "the hard way" or by a successful "mission" so to speak.

            (Believe me, I've had plenty of hard lessons in my life! LOLOL!! )

            Our sins are paid for in full by the blood of Christ, forgiven & remembered no more. Yes we continue to sin, because of the flesh and it's need for satisfaction... but overall, they're gone. That's how we can stand as "righteous" before God when we're eventually "face to face". Our sins are covered.

            But remember, we are a work in progress. And thankfully God knows that!
            Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
            _______________________________________________
            There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
              This has been bugging me lately.

              The Bible says we are perfected forever by the sacrifice of Jesus

              But it also says God scourges whom He loves.

              So how is it that God sees us as perfect but at the same time sees when we sin? How can He see us sin but at the same time see us as perfect?
              God chastens us when we deliberately and knowledgeably sin against Him. The reason God the Father sees us as perfect is because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. Jesus Christ is our Advocate and He makes intercession for us. However, if we sin willfully we are counting the blood of the Lord as a common thing and we are insulting the Spirit of grace. Therefore, the Word says in such a situation there is no sacrifice for our sins because even though we know the truth we have rejected it and sinned anyway. When we do that we can expect judgment to come . . . which is the chastening of the Lord.

              Funny you brought this up because I just preached on this today.

              Hebrews 10:26-31
              For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
              "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

              -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                Good replies so far!

                I'll just say that I believe we're all "tested" from time to time. Because the end result is always a gain of wisdom. Whether we learn "the hard way" or by a successful "mission" so to speak.

                (Believe me, I've had plenty of hard lessons in my life! LOLOL!! )

                Our sins are paid for in full by the blood of Christ, forgiven & remembered no more. Yes we continue to sin, because of the flesh and it's need for satisfaction... but overall, they're gone. That's how we can stand as "righteous" before God when we're eventually "face to face". Our sins are covered.

                But remember, we are a work in progress. And thankfully God knows that!
                the work in progress is not an attribute to God's patience, it's an attribute to our patience with ourselves... I don't believe that God is in a hurry to make us perfect, his desire is to make himself known to the world and especially to us... we in our western mindsets would like to think that if God is going to do something he better do it quick... we like to get things done whereas God has been infinitely patient and not in too big a hurry with man at large or with man as an individual...

                our mistakes and our sin is, I believe a result of our unbelief that God has made us righteous, but the awesome thing is that in less than a quarter of a half of a second after messing up and choosing sin and our own ways just by a simple yes we position ourselves right back under the grace of God, the blood of Jesus and the righteousness of Christ just by choosing that he makes us righteous and by choosing to behold that righteousness of God within us we find ourselves becoming that without even realizing it... keep in mind it's the righteousness of God and his glory that he's revealing inside of sinful depraved man... If I were God i would hurry up the process and just do it and save man alot of debate and heartache and futility of working for it... but thank the Lord that he has taken his time and I have a testimony of his righteousness over time... God seems to really enjoy the process... but then again he has no concept of time
                The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                  the work in progress is not an attribute to God's patience, it's an attribute to our patience with ourselves... I don't believe that God is in a hurry to make us perfect, his desire is to make himself known to the world and especially to us... we in our western mindsets would like to think that if God is going to do something he better do it quick... we like to get things done whereas God has been infinitely patient and not in too big a hurry with man at large or with man as an individual...

                  our mistakes and our sin is, I believe a result of our unbelief that God has made us righteous, but the awesome thing is that in less than a quarter of a half of a second after messing up and choosing sin and our own ways just by a simple yes we position ourselves right back under the grace of God, the blood of Jesus and the righteousness of Christ just by choosing that he makes us righteous and by choosing to behold that righteousness of God within us we find ourselves becoming that without even realizing it... keep in mind it's the righteousness of God and his glory that he's revealing inside of sinful depraved man... If I were God i would hurry up the process and just do it and save man alot of debate and heartache and futility of working for it... but thank the Lord that he has taken his time and I have a testimony of his righteousness over time... God seems to really enjoy the process... but then again he has no concept of time
                  Great point on the "time" issue!
                  Since God is OUTSIDE of time, the results of forgiveness, & covering are virtually instant in his eyes.

                  The main thing to keep in mind is LOVE.
                  even when we disobey, his love for us is unwavering.

                  Like a parent/child relationship. When my daughter disobeys the rules we set, whether it's attributed to being "young" or just a blatant "I don't want to do that" attitude, my love for here never falters either..... I may be momentarily disappointed, but I also know she's learning. AND, under my guidance to boot!

                  I may have gotten slightly off topic.... but I think I'm still somewhat on the same track here.... LOL!

                  Make sense?

                  Anyway, (once again) I think you hit a good point with God, and his relation to time & space.

                  Great addition!
                  Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                  _______________________________________________
                  There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                    Great point on the "time" issue!
                    Since God is OUTSIDE of time, the results of forgiveness, & covering are virtually instant in his eyes.

                    The main thing to keep in mind is LOVE.
                    even when we disobey, his love for us is unwavering.

                    Like a parent/child relationship. When my daughter disobeys the rules we set, whether it's attributed to being "young" or just a blatant "I don't want to do that" attitude, my love for here never falters either..... I may be momentarily disappointed, but I also know she's learning. AND, under my guidance to boot!

                    I may have gotten slightly off topic.... but I think I'm still somewhat on the same track here.... LOL!

                    Make sense?

                    Anyway, (once again) I think you hit a good point with God, and his relation to time & space.

                    Great addition!
                    thank you very much for the props my friend...

                    just because we have a desire to be like him it gives God the leverage to do with us as we like...

                    song of solomon 4:9 says we ravish his heart with one glance of our eyes... just because we look at him, he knows the weakness of our frame he sympathizes with our weakness that's why he made a way for us, our job is to do what we were made to do, be intimate with God... he does the hard part
                    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                      thank you very much for the props my friend...

                      just because we have a desire to be like him it gives God the leverage to do with us as we like...

                      song of solomon 4:9 says we ravish his heart with one glance of our eyes... just because we look at him, he knows the weakness of our frame he sympathizes with our weakness that's why he made a way for us, our job is to do what we were made to do, be intimate with God... he does the hard part
                      I'll get all "Old School Ghetto" on ya' for my reply....

                      Ready??


                      "WORD!!!!"

                      Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                      _______________________________________________
                      There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                        I'll get all "Old School Ghetto" on ya' for my reply....

                        Ready??


                        "WORD!!!!"

                        i got one better

                        RIGHTEOUS!!!
                        The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                          i got one better

                          RIGHTEOUS!!!

                          OK you two i think thats enough haha

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                            OK you two i think thats enough haha
                            aww come on man.. you never let us have any fun..
                            The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              This has been bugging me lately.

                              The Bible says we are perfected forever by the sacrifice of Jesus
                              Does the Bible really say that?

                              Where?
                              You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

                              Charles G Finney



                              http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

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