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  • God loves all?

    I remain convinced that God doesn't love all.

    For God so loved the world...I know this verse. I'm sure everybody here can quote John 3:16 by heart.

    What needs to be done is define world.

    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

    Did Christ take away the sin from those who are saved AND those who are unsaved?

    They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

    Is he the Savior of the unsaved as well as the saved?

    For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

    Does he give life to the unsaved as well as the saved?

    To say that the "world" referred to here includes those who are unsaved along with those who are saved would be a form of, if not outright, universalism.

    Anyway, back to topic. Show me that God loves those He has condemned. He killed so many through the flood. He killed many through the Israelites, women, children, and infants alike.

    I want to believe that God loves all, just show me why I should believe it.

  • #2
    1 John 2:2
    2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
    NASB

    One thing about Calvinism, it has to redefine biblical words or it would not exist.

    Universalism and Calvinism are extremely close in doctrine.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Yukerboy View Post
      I remain convinced that God doesn't love all.

      For God so loved the world...I know this verse. I'm sure everybody here can quote John 3:16 by heart.

      What needs to be done is define world.

      The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

      Did Christ take away the sin from those who are saved AND those who are unsaved?

      They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

      Is he the Savior of the unsaved as well as the saved?

      For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

      Does he give life to the unsaved as well as the saved?

      To say that the "world" referred to here includes those who are unsaved along with those who are saved would be a form of, if not outright, universalism.

      Anyway, back to topic. Show me that God loves those He has condemned. He killed so many through the flood. He killed many through the Israelites, women, children, and infants alike.

      I want to believe that God loves all, just show me why I should believe it.
      Why would Jesus tell us to love our enemies if He didn't love His?

      Why would it rain on the just and the unjust if He didn't love the unjust?

      Why would He be the savior of all men (in any sense) especially those who believe if He didn't love them?

      If He is Love how could He not love?

      I'm with BrotherMark on this one, you have to change some stuff to believe he don't love us all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Yukerboy View Post
        I remain convinced that God doesn't love all.

        For God so loved the world...I know this verse. I'm sure everybody here can quote John 3:16 by heart.

        What needs to be done is define world.

        The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

        Did Christ take away the sin from those who are saved AND those who are unsaved?

        They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

        Is he the Savior of the unsaved as well as the saved?

        For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

        Does he give life to the unsaved as well as the saved?

        To say that the "world" referred to here includes those who are unsaved along with those who are saved would be a form of, if not outright, universalism.

        Anyway, back to topic. Show me that God loves those He has condemned. He killed so many through the flood. He killed many through the Israelites, women, children, and infants alike.

        I want to believe that God loves all, just show me why I should believe it.
        God made salvation & forgiveness available to "whosoever asks"..... Not everyone WILL ask, but the offer is on the table.

        AND... he loves us SO MUCH, that he's willing to respect our choices for all eternity.
        Whether it's to have a relationship with him, or to NOT have one.... We can rest assured that God's love is real, & strong enough to respect & honor our choices.

        Can you imagine NOT wanting the relationship with him, and being dragged into Heaven & into his presence against your will, for ALL ETERNITY?
        There would be no personal choice in that situation.

        But that's not the case.

        His love for us is beyond our comprehension.
        Think about it.
        Even while we were yet sinners, he loved us enough to provide a way to be free from the curse of sin. He willingly died for us, to cover OUR butts for the mistake WE made.

        I can't think of a bettter example of love than that!
        Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
        _______________________________________________
        There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          “For God has concluded them all [both the Israelites and the Gentiles—see verses 25-31] in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon ALL.

          Who are the ones concluded in unbelief and why would he have mercy on those He didn't love?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
            Universalism and Calvinism are extremely close in doctrine.
            That's funny, we Calvinists believe Universalism and Arminianism are extremely close in doctrine.

            Anyway, I do believe that God does love every single person in a certain way. I agree that if we are to love our enemies then that means God too loves His enemies. This love, however, doesn't mean all will be saved or that universal atonement is true.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              God IS Love! God IS Holy; God IS Righteous; God IS Just; God IS Light; God IS Truth; God IS Life.

              Questions:
              Does God deal with all His Creation Holily or un-Holily?
              Does God deal with all His Creation Righteously, or unrighteously?
              Does God deal with all His Creation Justly, or unjustly?
              Does God deal with all His Creation with Light, or darkness?
              Does God deal with all His Creation in Truth, or lie?
              Does God deal with all His Creation with Life, or death?
              Does God deal with all His Creation out of Love, or hate?

              God IS Love, and if anything I am, or if anything I can do, can cause Almighty God not to love, then I have caused God (who never changes) to change.

              Can I make Almighty God to be unHoly, or unjust, or unrighteous?
              Can I cause Him, to be darkness, or a lie, or death, or hate?

              In all these things I say NO, for I am but the dust of the earth.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
                That's funny, we Calvinists believe Universalism and Arminianism are extremely close in doctrine.

                Anyway, I do believe that God does love every single person in a certain way. I agree that if we are to love our enemies then that means God too loves His enemies. This love, however, doesn't mean all will be saved or that universal atonement is true.
                How so?


                Does He love them like I love pizza?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
                  That's funny, we Calvinists believe Universalism and Arminianism are extremely close in doctrine.
                  I know several universalist that are Calvinist.

                  Anyway, I do believe that God does love every single person in a certain way. I agree that if we are to love our enemies then that means God too loves His enemies. This love, however, doesn't mean all will be saved or that universal atonement is true.
                  Right. He "loves" them. But it is such a weak love that it cannot save. It is another area where Calvinist have to redefine biblical words, like love and world, in order to keep their doctrine.

                  Agape no longer means agape and world doesn't mean world.
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In what sense could I love a drowing victim but not do anything to attempt to save him?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                      How so?
                      As I understand Arminianism, Jesus only made salvation possible by dying on the cross and it's up to us to accept or reject it. That leaves open the possibility that all would accept it. We know this isn't the case but the possibility was there.

                      Does He love them like I love pizza?
                      I don't understand the question.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Yukerboy View Post
                        I remain convinced that God doesn't love all.

                        For God so loved the world...I know this verse. I'm sure everybody here can quote John 3:16 by heart.

                        What needs to be done is define world.

                        The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

                        Did Christ take away the sin from those who are saved AND those who are unsaved?

                        They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

                        Is he the Savior of the unsaved as well as the saved?

                        For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

                        Does he give life to the unsaved as well as the saved?

                        To say that the "world" referred to here includes those who are unsaved along with those who are saved would be a form of, if not outright, universalism.

                        Anyway, back to topic. Show me that God loves those He has condemned. He killed so many through the flood. He killed many through the Israelites, women, children, and infants alike.

                        I want to believe that God loves all, just show me why I should believe it.
                        what about Romans 5:18 while we were yet sinners Christ died for us... he chose you before you even had the opportunity to choose him... that means he died for all... even for the ones who don't choose him... the saved are the ones who agree with his sacrifice... and the unsaved are the ones who don't, thus by their refusal of God's free gift, he is justified in sending them to eternal punishment
                        The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                          I know several universalist that are Calvinist.
                          And I actually think that has more biblical support than Arminianism. At least as I understand it, both Universalists and Calvinists believe the Atonement to be effectual. It's just that Calvinists believe it was limited while Universalists believe it was universal.

                          Right. He "loves" them. But it is such a weak love that it cannot save. It is another area where Calvinist have to redefine biblical words, like love and world, in order to keep their doctrine.
                          So God loves everybody in a saving way? If He does then why doesn't He save everybody, not just make salvation 'possible'?
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                            In what sense could I love a drowing victim but not do anything to attempt to save him?
                            And what kind of love is it to just thrown a life saver and say 'take it if you want'? Saving love would be jumping overboard and physically saving the person.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              one question i always ask Calvinists regarding their view of predestination and replacement theology is why did Jesus weep over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37-39 if he had predestined Israel for hell?...
                              The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                              Comment

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