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  • The Gospel Written in the Stars

    Last night I was listening to a lecture on Psalm 19 and how the Gospel may very well have been written in the stars at the time of creation. Very interesting stuff...what do you all know about this?


    Here is a site I found that seems to best go along with the lecture I heard.

    http://www.yarahministries.org/heaven.html

    ...and here is the lecture by Steve Gregg...

    http://www.digitalministries.us/stev.../05_psalms.mp3

    As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

  • #2
    It starts playing gematria with certain verses.
    To This Day

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by markedward View Post
      It starts playing gematria with certain verses.
      So you don't think there is anything to it?
      As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice topic. I have personally read three books on this, and own one. Bullinger is available online. I own Seiss. And the third is from a surprising auther, the late James Kennedy.

        I do believe there is enough evidence to consider the gospel in the stars to be credible. And as one who was reading astrology books when Jesus saved me, I found the new look at this to be incredible freeing and redemptive. Now, when someone asks about my sign, I can say, Capricorn, the dying yet living savior. That is, I can if I've brushed up on it. Just had to look it up, lol.

        Before reading about this theory, I just managed a lame "The sign of the cross - Jesus" and added that astrology was evil. But when I say that the signs were put there by God and taught to Adam, and corrupted over eons, I get more interest in the gospel.
        Free indeed!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gulah Papyrus View Post
          So you don't think there is anything to it?
          It makes me suspicious, at least.

          Not to mention that it uses a ton of convoluted "Bible code" nonsense... just because a "pattern" can be found in (i.e., forced into) Scripture doesn't mean God put it there. For every "Bible code" that people claim is in the Old Testament that says Jesus is the Messiah, there's just as easily found to be another "Bible code" that says Jesus isn't the Messiah.
          To This Day

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gulah Papyrus View Post
            Last night I was listening to a lecture on Psalm 19 and how the Gospel may very well have been written in the stars at the time of creation. Very interesting stuff...what do you all know about this?


            Here is a site I found that seems to best go along with the lecture I heard.

            http://www.yarahministries.org/heaven.html

            ...and here is the lecture by Steve Gregg...

            http://www.digitalministries.us/stev.../05_psalms.mp3

            I am really tired right now..about my bedtime so I can't focus on reading this right now...but yes I do believe the gospels were written in the stars...

            I did a thread about the Star of Bethlehem website and their DVD here: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=151742

            That would probably interest you alot. Its not just about the star leading the wise men, but also what was happening in the sky (well space) when Jesus died on the cross and scripture does back this up.

            Yes its true that people have taken God given signs to us and twisted it as satan always does with the truth, and made it corrupt by turning it into astrology which the bible speaks against. astrology is vastly different from astromony though. Reading stars for OUR foture is forbidden in the bible...read God's message to us about His Son, is not and is in scripture. The website I posted on my thread also explains the difference. I think we miss out on alot of 'signs' in the sky because we are afraid to study them anymore due to the corruption that others placed on them. In other words...are you viewing these signs through scripture or viewing them through some weird fortune telling idea people came up with? (not saying personally you, Gulah Papyrus) but saying to people in general this is how we can tell the difference.

            There was a well known pastor in the Christian radio station I listened too that spoke about the gospels being written in the sky too and even though he used scriptures...backed everything up with scriptures, many others attacked him for it. It got kind of messy for awhile and I thought sad too. Do we flee so far from things due to satan that we miss seeing God's work? Not even look at the stars and planets out of fear we might be sinning?

            As with everything else in the bible there has to be a balance.

            Anyway I hope your post is still here in the morning so I can read that link. Thanks for posting it.

            God bless
            "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

            Comment


            • #7
              I did not listen to the link. So I did not notice the objection about Bible codes. I concur about the codes. Nonsense. But Moonglow has said it well, nonsense aside.
              Free indeed!

              Comment


              • #8
                I kind of see this in the same way many truths get hijacked by the adversary. I read a book somewhere in the past that took the position that the whole plan from start to finish was written in the stars. I don't remember what each constellation meant, but the ending was scorpio, and on it's heals sagitarius (though each had different names of course) and God's wrath being poured onto the scorpions tail.

                I find it all interesting, but it should be taken as nothing more than a topic of interest and nothing more. First, it would be extra biblical. And seeing there is enough deceit in this world today, we need to keep in the Word and not rely on extra biblical stuff to guide us. Plus, there is nothing in scripture that says to look to the stars for anything other than as a guide for the seasons.

                Peace.
                Ken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                  I am really tired right now..about my bedtime so I can't focus on reading this right now...but yes I do believe the gospels were written in the stars...

                  I did a thread about the Star of Bethlehem website and their DVD here: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=151742

                  That would probably interest you alot. Its not just about the star leading the wise men, but also what was happening in the sky (well space) when Jesus died on the cross and scripture does back this up.

                  Yes its true that people have taken God given signs to us and twisted it as satan always does with the truth, and made it corrupt by turning it into astrology which the bible speaks against. astrology is vastly different from astromony though. Reading stars for OUR foture is forbidden in the bible...read God's message to us about His Son, is not and is in scripture. The website I posted on my thread also explains the difference. I think we miss out on alot of 'signs' in the sky because we are afraid to study them anymore due to the corruption that others placed on them. In other words...are you viewing these signs through scripture or viewing them through some weird fortune telling idea people came up with? (not saying personally you, Gulah Papyrus) but saying to people in general this is how we can tell the difference.

                  There was a well known pastor in the Christian radio station I listened too that spoke about the gospels being written in the sky too and even though he used scriptures...backed everything up with scriptures, many others attacked him for it. It got kind of messy for awhile and I thought sad too. Do we flee so far from things due to satan that we miss seeing God's work? Not even look at the stars and planets out of fear we might be sinning?

                  As with everything else in the bible there has to be a balance.

                  Anyway I hope your post is still here in the morning so I can read that link. Thanks for posting it.

                  God bless
                  Hi Moonglow, I agree with everything you said, and as Markedward pointed out, the 'code' stuff does invites skepticism, but I cannot help but be fascinated, though not surprised, with the idea that God wrote the Gospel story in the stars. Isn't that so like him?

                  Just so you know, the text link that I posted, I posted for the scripture references, not the code. If you have time to listen to the audio link(55+ minutes) I think you would really enjoy it.
                  As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                    I kind of see this in the same way many truths get hijacked by the adversary. I read a book somewhere in the past that took the position that the whole plan from start to finish was written in the stars. I don't remember what each constellation meant, but the ending was scorpio, and on it's heals sagitarius (though each had different names of course) and God's wrath being poured onto the scorpions tail.

                    I find it all interesting, but it should be taken as nothing more than a topic of interest and nothing more. First, it would be extra biblical. And seeing there is enough deceit in this world today, we need to keep in the Word and not rely on extra biblical stuff to guide us. Plus, there is nothing in scripture that says to look to the stars for anything other than as a guide for the seasons.

                    Peace.
                    Ken
                    What does the term 'extra biblical' mean?
                    As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gulah Papyrus View Post
                      Last night I was listening to a lecture on Psalm 19 and how the Gospel may very well have been written in the stars at the time of creation. Very interesting stuff...what do you all know about this?


                      Here is a site I found that seems to best go along with the lecture I heard.

                      http://www.yarahministries.org/heaven.html

                      ...and here is the lecture by Steve Gregg...

                      http://www.digitalministries.us/stev.../05_psalms.mp3

                      Dr D. James Kennedy wrote a book called "The real meaning of the Zodiac" about 25 years ago that explains it without the kabbalahic numerology. They probably got alot of that stuff from him.

                      Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                      I am really tired right now..about my bedtime so I can't focus on reading this right now...but yes I do believe the gospels were written in the stars...

                      I did a thread about the Star of Bethlehem website and their DVD here: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=151742

                      That would probably interest you alot. Its not just about the star leading the wise men, but also what was happening in the sky (well space) when Jesus died on the cross and scripture does back this up.



                      God bless
                      I liked the Star of Bethlehem site as well. The only issue I have with it is that the author doesn't understand that Jesus couldn't have been crucified on a friday like he claims. This would not have allowed for the sign of Jonah(three days AND three nights) to be fulfilled. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday just before a special sabbath on one of the Jewish high holy days and NOT the regular Saturday sabbath This would have allowed the three full days to take place. However, I love the site as far as the star of Bethlehem itself went
                      Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                        I kind of see this in the same way many truths get hijacked by the adversary. I read a book somewhere in the past that took the position that the whole plan from start to finish was written in the stars. I don't remember what each constellation meant, but the ending was scorpio, and on it's heals sagitarius (though each had different names of course) and God's wrath being poured onto the scorpions tail.

                        I find it all interesting, but it should be taken as nothing more than a topic of interest and nothing more. First, it would be extra biblical. And seeing there is enough deceit in this world today, we need to keep in the Word and not rely on extra biblical stuff to guide us. Plus, there is nothing in scripture that says to look to the stars for anything other than as a guide for the seasons.

                        Peace.
                        Ken
                        Well actually there is...we see numerous verses saying their will be signs in the heavens...

                        Matthew 24

                        29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


                        Many take this literally...that these heavenly signs will actually happen. Some of us don't as references to the sun, moon, etc can stay for nations, kings, etc as we see for example with Joseph who had a dream of the sun, moon and stars bowing before him...

                        Genesis 37:8-10
                        9 Soon Joseph had another dream, and again he told his brothers about it. “Listen, I have had another dream,” he said. “The sun, moon, and eleven stars bowed low before me!”

                        10 This time he told the dream to his father as well as to his brothers, but his father scolded him. “What kind of dream is that?” he asked. “Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow to the ground before you?”


                        ...in that it meant his family and especially brothers and a whole nation as he ended up being the right hand man of Pharaoh of Egypt. Even Jacob, Joseph father knew these heavenly signs were not literally in this case. It can be difficult figuring out what is to be taken literally as 'signs in heaven' and what isn't but as we see here...some of this was literal:


                        The FIFTH sign, fearful portents.

                        To these St. Luke adds that there shall be fearful sights and great signs from heaven 21:11.) Josephus, in his preface to the Jewish war, enumerates these. 1st. A star hung over the city like a sword; and a comet continued a whole year. 2d. The people being assembled at the feast of unleavened bread, at the ninth hour of the night, a great light shone about the altar and the temple, and this continued for half an hour. 3d. At the same feast, a cow led to sacrifice brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple! 4th. The eastern gate of the temple, which was of solid brass, and very heavy, and could hardly be shut by twenty men, and was fastened by strong bars and bolts, was seen at the sixth hour of the night to open of its own accord! 5th. Before sun-setting there were seen, over all the country, chariots and armies fighting in the clouds, and besieging cities. 6th. At the feast of pentecost, when the priests were going into the inner temple by night, to attend their service, they heard first a motion and noise, and then a voice, as of a multitude, saying, LET US DEPART HENCE! 7th.

                        What Josephus reckons one of the most terrible signs of all was, that one Jesus, a country fellow, four years before the war began, and when the city was in peace and plenty, came to the feast of tabernacles, and ran crying up and down the streets, day and night: "A voice from the east! a voice from the west! a voice from the four winds! a voice against Jerusalem and the temple! a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides! and a voice against all the people!" Though the magistrates endeavoured by stripes and tortures to restrain him, yet he still cried, with a mournful voice, "Wo, wo to Jerusalem!" And this he continued to do for several years together, going about the walls and crying with a loud voice: "Wo, wo to the city, and to the people, and to the temple!" and as he added, "Wo, wo to myself!" a stone from some sling or engine struck him dead on the spot! It is worthy of remark that Josephus appeals to the testimony of others, who saw and heard these fearful things. Tacitus, a Roman historian, gives very nearly the same account with that of Josephus. Hist. lib. v.
                        ****************************

                        But then in this account:

                        The Death of Jesus
                        44 By this time it was noon, and darkness fell across the whole land until three o’clock. 45 The light from the sun was gone. And suddenly, the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn down the middle. 46 Then Jesus shouted, “Father, I entrust my spirit into your hands!”[h] And with those words he breathed his last.


                        http://www.bethlehemstar.net/day/day.htm
                        Peter's Argument

                        We now leap beyond the crucifixion to add a last piece of evidence about the day of the cross. The Bible reports that the resurrected Messiah instructed his disciples not to leave Jerusalem until they received power from the Holy Spirit. They may have been confused, wondering if Jesus was talking about something political (27). But stay they did.

                        They were still there for the Jewish celebration of Pentecost, 50 days after the Passover Feast and the crucifixion. Jerusalem was full of worshipers from all over the Near East. The Bible reports sudden startling events during this celebration: the sound of a great rushing wind, something like flames hovering about the disciples. Just as strange, the disciples began to speak, but not in their native Aramaic or Hebrew. They spoke in languages they had not learned. They were understood by countless foreign visitors to the city (28).

                        There was pandemonium. A boisterous crowd jostled closer. Travelers heard their own languages spoken by Galileans and were bewildered. Hecklers shouted: "They're all drunk!" The apostle Peter jumped up amid the confusion. We can imagine his hand outstretched to still the crowd. He then boomed out his explanation of what was happening. Listen and consider as Peter argues from the words of the prophet Joel recorded circa 835 BC. From the Book of Acts, Chapter 2:

                        "14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 "`In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'"

                        Then Peter delivered the knockout punch. The Book of Acts, Chapter 2:

                        22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."

                        Peter asserts that Joel's prophesy has been fulfilled and that his listeners know it—that they have seen the signs themselves. This is the same argument the apostle Paul made, as discussed in "Setting the Stage" on this web site. This argument would have had exactly no persuasive force unless Paul's and Peter's audiences knew that signs had occurred. Both men assumed that everybody knew about the signs. That's powerful evidence that they had occurred. Of particular interest for us: Joel said there would be astronomical signs. And now Peter says, "you've seen them." What were they?

                        "The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood..." The gospels do recount that the sun was darkened on the day of the crucifixion from noon until 3 in the afternoon (29). Ancient non-Biblical sources confirm this. Phlegon Trallianus records in his history, Olympiades (41):

                        "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad [AD 32-33], a failure of the Sun took place greater than any previously known, and night came on at the sixth hour of the day [noon], so that stars actually appeared in the sky; and a great earthquake took place in Bithynia and overthrew the greater part of Niceaea," obviously not a simple astronomical event. (42)

                        But what about the bloody moon?

                        The answer to that question fixes the date of the crucifixion with precision. Beyond reasonable doubt, in fact, because a "blood moon" has a specific meaning. In ancient literature, not only the Bible, it means a lunar eclipse. Why bloody? Because when the moon is in eclipse it is in the Earth's shadow. It receives no direct light from the sun, but is lit only by the dim light refracted and red-shifted by the Earth's atmosphere. The moon in eclipse does glow a dull red, as you know if you have seen it.

                        This matters, because with Kepler's equations we can determine exactly when historical eclipses occurred. Perhaps it will not surprise you to learn that only one Passover lunar eclipse was visible from Jerusalem while Pilate was in office (30). It occurred on April 3, 33 AD, the Day of the Cross.
                        ******************
                        sorry this is such a long post ..

                        God bless
                        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gulah Papyrus View Post
                          What does the term 'extra biblical' mean?
                          It means not bibical..not found in scriptures...though I don't think it is extra biblical as we have this verse:

                          Psalm 19
                          To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
                          1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
                          And the firmament shows His handiwork.
                          2 Day unto day utters speech,
                          And night unto night reveals knowledge.
                          3 There is no speech nor language
                          Where their voice is not heard.
                          4 Their line[a] has gone out through all the earth,
                          And their words to the end of the world.


                          http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/vi...ps&chapter=019
                          St. Paul applies this as a prophecy relative to the universal spread of the Gospel of Christ, Romans 10:18; for God designed that the light of the Gospel should be diffused wheresoever the light of the celestial luminaries shone; and be as useful and beneficent, in a moral point of view, as that is in a natural. All the inhabitants of the earth shall benefit by the Gospel of Christ, as they all benefit by the solar, lunar, and stellar light. And, indeed, all have thus benefited, even where the words are not yet come. "Jesus is the true Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world." His light, and the voice of his Spirit, have already gone through the earth; and his words, and the words of his apostles, are by means of the Bible and missionaries going out to all the extremities of the habitable globe.
                          ****************************
                          God bless
                          "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                            What Josephus reckons one of the most terrible signs of all was, that one Jesus, a country fellow, four years before the war began, and when the city was in peace and plenty, came to the feast of tabernacles, and ran crying up and down the streets, day and night: "A voice from the east! a voice from the west! a voice from the four winds! a voice against Jerusalem and the temple! a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides! and a voice against all the people!" Though the magistrates endeavoured by stripes and tortures to restrain him, yet he still cried, with a mournful voice, "Wo, wo to Jerusalem!" And this he continued to do for several years together, going about the walls and crying with a loud voice: "Wo, wo to the city, and to the people, and to the temple!" and as he added, "Wo, wo to myself!" a stone from some sling or engine struck him dead on the spot! It is worthy of remark that Josephus appeals to the testimony of others, who saw and heard these fearful things. Tacitus, a Roman historian, gives very nearly the same account with that of Josephus. Hist. lib. v.
                            Is this a quote from Josephus? I'm not familiar with the passage - I think Josephus only mentions Jesus twice. Once is the Testimonium Flavianum (believed to be a later insertion by a Christian), and the other mentions Him as the brother of James. Curious as to where the above has come from? I know it's in Adam Clarke's Commentary, but where did he get it from? Furthermore, Tacitus has no similar passage - his mention of Nero and the Christians doesn't even come close to the above.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bethany67 View Post
                              Is this a quote from Josephus? I'm not familiar with the passage - I think Josephus only mentions Jesus twice. Once is the Testimonium Flavianum (believed to be a later insertion by a Christian), and the other mentions Him as the brother of James. Curious as to where the above has come from? I know it's in Adam Clarke's Commentary, but where did he get it from? Furthermore, Tacitus has no similar passage - his mention of Nero and the Christians doesn't even come close to the above.
                              No, no...this isn't about Jesus our Savior he is talking about but another man named Jesus. The name Jesus, was apparently fairly common...kind of like the name Mary, back then. Tacitus too, isn't talking about Jesus our Savior, but about this fellow that went around shouting this message of doom. (edited to add) What Adam Clark is explaining is the events that actually happened...the destruction of Jerusalem long after Jesus had ascended back to Heaven. He gives the historical accounts from Josephus, to show how this prophesies Jesus gave, were full filled. Sorry for the confusion!

                              I don't know if this is an exact quote from Josephus' War of the Jews...sounds more like paraphrasing.

                              you might find this link interesting: Regarding the quotes from the historian
                              Josephus about Jesus


                              I don't want to side track the thread too much on that...just thought it might interest you though.

                              Adam Clark does use quite a bit of Josephus' War of the Jews accounts all through his commentary on Matthew 24.

                              God bless
                              Last edited by moonglow; Jan 6th 2009, 03:55 PM. Reason: added more explaination
                              "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                              Comment

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