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  • Spiritual Death

    Did Adams sin cause spiritual death?
    I think we can all agree that death is simply seperation from life ie God

    Did the spirit of man remain pure? or was it put into bondage under sin and death as the rest of man(mind, will, actions)

    What is the condition of our spirit before conversion/being born again?

    Are sinners such as Adolph Hitler still someway spiritually connected to God?

  • #2
    Originally posted by reformedct View Post
    Did Adams sin cause spiritual death?
    I think we can all agree that death is simply seperation from life ie God

    Did the spirit of man remain pure? or was it put into bondage under sin and death as the rest of man(mind, will, actions)

    What is the condition of our spirit before conversion/being born again?

    Are sinners such as Adolph Hitler still someway spiritually connected to God?
    When Paul said, "you who were dead in trespasses and sins", he wasn't speaking to a corspe. He was writing to people physically living. How are we dead in trespasses and sins, in what way are we dead...yet living and breathing?

    Many Blessings,
    RW

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RogerW View Post
      When Paul said, "you who were dead in trespasses and sins", he wasn't speaking to a corspe. He was writing to people physically living. How are we dead in trespasses and sins, in what way are we dead...yet living and breathing?

      Many Blessings,
      RW


      Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

      When I read this verse, I don't ask who?, but I ask why? Then I read verse 2 and 3. Now I understand why.

      Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
      3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


      This would be why these were once dead in trespasses and sins. It makes no mention of being spiritually dead, but it does mention following the wrong spirit.

      Comment


      • #4
        reformedct;1933180]Did Adams sin cause spiritual deat
        Yes

        Did the spirit of man remain pure? or was it put into bondage under sin and death as the rest of man(mind, will, actions)
        No it did not remain pure.

        What is the condition of our spirit before conversion/being born again?
        Dead to the Word of God.

        Are sinners such as Adolph Hitler still someway spiritually connected to God?
        I don't think so.

        I have an appointment that I need to keep right now... but I will be back later to give scripture for everything that I am saying.

        God Bless,

        Dave
        In Christ Love

        BCF

        2 Peter 1:20-21:

        "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

        Search and believe the Scripture, before you believe anything man tells you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

          When I read this verse, I don't ask who?, but I ask why? Then I read verse 2 and 3. Now I understand why.

          Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
          3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


          This would be why these were once dead in trespasses and sins. It makes no mention of being spiritually dead, but it does mention following the wrong spirit.

          Though one be physically alive.. yet 'dead' in trespasses and sins...

          what does that mean?

          One is not physically dead..... but 'spiritually' dead?

          'dead' in trespasses and sin..

          When Christ 'quickens' one at the New Birth.. being born again.. what does He quicken? an 'alive' spirit? or is it a spirit/soul that is dead in trespasses and sins...


          When He saved me.. and I was Born Again Feb 3 1994... He 'quickened' my spirit... Oh believe me He did.. prior to that my spirit was dead in trespasses and sins... He not only 'quickened' but 'set it free'... Amen and amen and amen... Praise Him for what He has done..
          Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
          ------------------------------------------------
          Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
          ------------------------------------------------
          The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
          Jeremiah 31:3

          Comment


          • #6
            [QUOTE=theBelovedDisciple;1933369]Though one be physically alive.. yet 'dead' in trespasses and sins...

            what does that mean?

            Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
            When Christ 'quickens' one at the New Birth.. being born again.. what does He quicken? an 'alive' spirit? or is it a spirit/soul
            that is dead in trespasses and sins...

            Perhaps 1 Peter 3: can shed some light on this.


            1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


            Unless I'm reading this wrong, it states that Christ was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. Does this then mean that He was spiritually dead? Wouldn't quickened in the Spirit mean the same thing for Christ, as for us? If it means that our spirit was dead, then shouldn't it also mean that His spirit was dead?

            IMO, it seems that it was the flesh that was dead in trespass and sin in Eph 2, because this is what Christ put to death, the flesh. Then He was made alive by the Spirit.

            Comment


            • #7
              [quote=divaD;1933458]
              Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
              Though one be physically alive.. yet 'dead' in trespasses and sins...

              what does that mean?

              Perhaps 1 Peter 3: can shed some light on this.

              1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

              Unless I'm reading this wrong, it states that Christ was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. Does this then mean that He was spiritually dead? Wouldn't quickened in the Spirit mean the same thing for Christ, as for us? If it means that our spirit was dead, then shouldn't it also mean that His spirit was dead?

              IMO, it seems that it was the flesh that was dead in trespass and sin in Eph 2, because this is what Christ put to death, the flesh. Then He was made alive by the Spirit.
              Hi Diva,

              In Eph Paul is writing to people, who are physically alive, telling them they were "dead in trespasses and sins." First Peter says Christ was "put to death in the flesh". In other words Christ really died physically on the cross. But after three days Christ was resurrected from physical death to physical life, by the Spirit, and He was seen by many witnesses to prove this. How is the flesh dead in trespasses and sins prior to being quickened by the Spirit in Eph 2? Are you sure it is the flesh that is made alive by the Spirit in Eph 2?

              Many Blessings,
              RW

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
                Though one be physically alive.. yet 'dead' in trespasses and sins...

                what does that mean?

                One is not physically dead..... but 'spiritually' dead?

                'dead' in trespasses and sin..

                When Christ 'quickens' one at the New Birth.. being born again.. what does He quicken? an 'alive' spirit? or is it a spirit/soul that is dead in trespasses and sins...


                When He saved me.. and I was Born Again Feb 3 1994... He 'quickened' my spirit... Oh believe me He did.. prior to that my spirit was dead in trespasses and sins... He not only 'quickened' but 'set it free'... Amen and amen and amen... Praise Him for what He has done..

                Thats a great testimony. I remember the day God did something inside of me. Everything in my life prior to that was a blur of confusion and folly. I never ever had a strong desire to read the Bible besides feeling guilty about sin and trying to get some good points by occasionally reading it. After my new birth i have been so hungry for the Word everyday

                Comment


                • #9
                  One who is dead in trespasses and sins needs the 'new birth'.. being born again.. being quickened by the Spirit. Why would somebody who is alive spiritually yet dead in trespasses and sins need to have their 'spirit' quickened.. its quickened because its 'dead in trespasses and sins.. as with the soul... the flesh returns to the dust but the spirit and soul go either 2 places after death... Christ made away to have 'new life'.. Eternal life... and this was thru the 'quickening'... Jesus the 2nd Adam was made a quickening Spirit... and its thru Him....that one is Born Again.. the spirit and soul quickened at the new birth.. being born Again.. which is done by and thru the Will of God Himself.

                  Can one be alive spiritually yet dead in trespasses and sins??????
                  Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                  ------------------------------------------------
                  Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                  ------------------------------------------------
                  The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                  Jeremiah 31:3

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                    Are you sure it is the flesh that is
                    made alive by the Spirit in Eph 2?
                    Hi Rw. If this is what I seemed to be implying, then obviously I'm being misunderstood.

                    If Christ died in the flesh, in which He did, then it would make no sense to say that the flesh is made alive because of it.

                    If Christ was made alive by the Spirit after being put to death in the flesh, then that means that we will also be made alive by the Spirit, either at the first resurrection, or if still alive, at Christ's 2nd coming.

                    None of us currently alive have literally obtained immortality. This is something that we hope for and wait for and believe for, thru Christ of course.


                    Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                    How is the flesh dead in trespasses and sins prior to being quickened by the Spirit in Eph 2?

                    Doesn't verse 2 and 3 tell us how?



                    Still, I don't think anyone got my point. If the reason that we are made alive by the Spirit is because we were spiritually dead, then this would also need to apply to Christ, since He was also made alive by the Spirit. But this can't be. When was Christ ever spiritually dead, thus needing to become spiritually alive? He was physically dead, as in the flesh, thus the need to become alive via the Spirit.

                    It's the flesh that sins. This is what Christ's physical death symbolized, the destroying of the flesh. It is by the Spirit that one is made alive. This was symbolized by Christ literally being quickened by the Spirit. Plain and simple, Christ is our link and only link to eternal life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by divaD View Post
                      Hi Rw. If this is what I seemed to be implying, then obviously I'm being misunderstood.

                      If Christ died in the flesh, in which He did, then it would make no sense to say that the flesh is made alive because of it.

                      If Christ was made alive by the Spirit after being put to death in the flesh, then that means that we will also be made alive by the Spirit, either at the first resurrection, or if still alive, at Christ's 2nd coming.

                      None of us currently alive have literally obtained immortality. This is something that we hope for and wait for and believe for, thru Christ of course.





                      Doesn't verse 2 and 3 tell us how?



                      Still, I don't think anyone got my point. If the reason that we are made alive by the Spirit is because we were spiritually dead, then this would also need to apply to Christ, since He was also made alive by the Spirit. But this can't be. When was Christ ever spiritually dead, thus needing to become spiritually alive? He was physically dead, as in the flesh, thus the need to become alive via the Spirit.

                      It's the flesh that sins. This is what Christ's physical death symbolized, the destroying of the flesh. It is by the Spirit that one is made alive. This was symbolized by Christ literally being quickened by the Spirit. Plain and simple, Christ is our link and only link to eternal life.

                      This is why Jesus was born of the SPirit. He was not spiritually dead because the curse is passed by man. Jesus was concieved by the Spirit, unlike the rest of mankind. We are not concieved by the spirit, we have man as fathers. Therefore we are dead. Christ was never dead but we are not Christ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jesus gave us a hint to the OP when He said:

                        "let the dead bury their own dead." - Matt 8:22, and Luke 9:60

                        Since a person has to be physically alive to be able to bury someone, I believe what Jesus was saying here, is let those who are spiritually dead, but alive physically bury their own dead.

                        Thanks for the hint Jesus
                        If the Calvinistic Westminister Confession is true (that "God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"), then God ordained my disbelief of Calvinism.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          Hi Rw. If this is what I seemed to be implying, then obviously I'm being misunderstood.

                          If Christ died in the flesh, in which He did, then it would make no sense to say that the flesh is made alive because of it.

                          If Christ was made alive by the Spirit after being put to death in the flesh, then that means that we will also be made alive by the Spirit, either at the first resurrection, or if still alive, at Christ's 2nd coming.

                          None of us currently alive have literally obtained immortality. This is something that we hope for and wait for and believe for, thru Christ of course.

                          Doesn't verse 2 and 3 tell us how?

                          Still, I don't think anyone got my point. If the reason that we are made alive by the Spirit is because we were spiritually dead, then this would also need to apply to Christ, since He was also made alive by the Spirit. But this can't be. When was Christ ever spiritually dead, thus needing to become spiritually alive? He was physically dead, as in the flesh, thus the need to become alive via the Spirit.

                          It's the flesh that sins. This is what Christ's physical death symbolized, the destroying of the flesh. It is by the Spirit that one is made alive. This was symbolized by Christ literally being quickened by the Spirit. Plain and simple, Christ is our link and only link to eternal life.
                          It seems you are confusing being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, with being physically dead. Obviously it is not our flesh that is quickened when we are born again...it is our spirit. How can it be our flesh, since we are physically alive? It is our spirit that must be born again of the Spirit. Before being made spiritually alive by the Spirit, we walk according to the flesh, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that works in the children of disobedience. We are like every man born in Adam, of the flesh, fulfilling our fleshly desires, and by nature children of wrath. Until we are given spiritual life by the quickening Spirit we will remain children of wrath, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and mind.

                          Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
                          Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

                          Once we have been made spiritually alive by the quickening Spirit, then we have received the power to have access to the Father by the life giving Spirit we possess. We have no ability to come to Christ unless we have been quickened (made spiritually alive) by the Spirit.

                          Many Blessings,
                          RW

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                            It seems you are confusing being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, with being physically dead.
                            Actually I'm not. I guess I sorta' see being quickened in the Spirit as pertaining to immortal life, which would occur at the first resurrection, upon Christ's return. But I have read your post(this post). IMO, it's a very good post. I don't really see anything in your post that I would disagree with. Obviously I'm having one of those days where I just can't seem to say what I'm trying to say.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The 'dead' throughout scripture communicate with and receive from God just fine.

                              Before the cross Jesus said the spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak.

                              Mary said her spirit rejoiced in God her savior.

                              Job said there is a spirit in man that is the candle of the Lord and the Spirit gives man understanding. Jesus, the Word that all things were made by is the light that lights all men.

                              Paul said to will and want to do good is present.

                              Those are just a few off the top of my head, I can post hundreds more, but you get the idea....and from scripture. Spiritual death is not an inability or paralysis or anything that makes our spirit dysfunctional in any way.

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