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  • Are Jesus Teachings also law

    Are Jesus teachings,(be perfect as your Father is perfect, forgive or you will not be forgiven) are they just as much law as the Mosaic law?

    if so, doesnt that mean that we are not under those laws?(Jesus laws?)

    i dont mean we dont have to keep them, i mean dont we keep them because we are under grace not because we are under law?

    For example forgive others and you will be forgiven

    isnt that the same as keeping the ten commandments, meaning that our salvation(true forgiveness) is not based on doing this?

  • #2
    Perhaps my confusion is due to tiredness, but could you rephrase your question?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by reformedct View Post
      Are Jesus teachings,(be perfect as your Father is perfect, forgive or you will not be forgiven) are they just as much law as the Mosaic law?

      if so, doesnt that mean that we are not under those laws?(Jesus laws?)

      i dont mean we dont have to keep them, i mean dont we keep them because we are under grace not because we are under law?

      For example forgive others and you will be forgiven

      isnt that the same as keeping the ten commandments, meaning that our salvation(true forgiveness) is not based on doing this?
      How can one claim to follow someone that they don't follow? How can one claim to love Him and yet not obey? No... the law of Christ is not the Law that Paul says we are free of. Goodness... Paul speaks of the Law of Moses... not the Law of the Lord.


      Visit our new website
      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

      A.W. Tozer said,
      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
        How can one claim to follow someone that they don't follow? How can one claim to love Him and yet not obey? No... the law of Christ is not the Law that Paul says we are free of. Goodness... Paul speaks of the Law of Moses... not the Law of the Lord.

        How can the Law of Messiah contradict the Law of God? As I have repeatedly stated, Paul spoke against Jewish Law, not the Law of God. Otherwise he was a heretic.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          Are Jesus teachings,(be perfect as your Father is perfect, forgive or you will not be forgiven) are they just as much law as the Mosaic law?

          if so, doesnt that mean that we are not under those laws?(Jesus laws?)

          i dont mean we dont have to keep them, i mean dont we keep them because we are under grace not because we are under law?

          For example forgive others and you will be forgiven

          isnt that the same as keeping the ten commandments, meaning that our salvation(true forgiveness) is not based on doing this?

          Yes, salvation comes from the death burial and resurrection of Messiah, apart from any law.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Emanate View Post
            How can the Law of Messiah contradict the Law of God? As I have repeatedly stated, Paul spoke against Jewish Law, not the Law of God. Otherwise he was a heretic.
            Uh... you might read again what I said.


            Visit our new website
            ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

            A.W. Tozer said,
            "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

            GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
              Uh... you might read again what I said.

              My point is that Jewish Law is not even the law of Moses. They believe it is, but is a rabbinic construct.

              Comment


              • #8
                Not even going to pretend to know what that all means. Hopefully my point is made without getting into all of that sort of thing.


                Visit our new website
                ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                A.W. Tozer said,
                "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                  Are Jesus teachings,(be perfect as your Father is perfect, forgive or you will not be forgiven) are they just as much law as the Mosaic law?

                  if so, doesnt that mean that we are not under those laws?(Jesus laws?)

                  i dont mean we dont have to keep them, i mean dont we keep them because we are under grace not because we are under law?

                  For example forgive others and you will be forgiven

                  isnt that the same as keeping the ten commandments, meaning that our salvation(true forgiveness) is not based on doing this?

                  Genesis 49:8-10 ( KJV ) 8Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee. 9Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.


                  Acts 3:21-24 ( KJV ) 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                    How can one claim to follow someone that they don't follow? How can one claim to love Him and yet not obey? No... the law of Christ is not the Law that Paul says we are free of. Goodness... Paul speaks of the Law of Moses... not the Law of the Lord.
                    I agree with you first part PP, but not the second. Yahushua said he that obeys his commands inherits the tree of life. I have always seen James as saying that we come in faith and that faith causes obediance to the one we love.

                    I however, believe Paul is denouncing man made laws and additions to Torah. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would give a law, call it perpetual or everlasting, only to do away with it later. He knows the end from the beginning, Messiah's life/death/life ordained from the foundation of the world. So why give an "everlasting command" and then kill it for eternity when Messiah does what he does? There just seems, to me, to be a lack of continuity in that as well as him going against his own word.

                    Peace to you.
                    Ken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                      I agree with you first part PP, but not the second. Yahushua said he that obeys his commands inherits the tree of life. I have always seen James as saying that we come in faith and that faith causes obediance to the one we love.

                      I however, believe Paul is denouncing man made laws and additions to Torah. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would give a law, call it perpetual or everlasting, only to do away with it later. He knows the end from the beginning, Messiah's life/death/life ordained from the foundation of the world. So why give an "everlasting command" and then kill it for eternity when Messiah does what he does? There just seems, to me, to be a lack of continuity in that as well as him going against his own word.

                      Peace to you.
                      Ken
                      I am quite sure that Jesus was against the man-made stuff no doubt. Also quite sure that Jesus set straight some of the written law of Moses as well. But sure... I knew that there would be some that didn't agree.


                      Visit our new website
                      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                      A.W. Tozer said,
                      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                        How can one claim to follow someone that they don't follow? How can one claim to love Him and yet not obey? No... the law of Christ is not the Law that Paul says we are free of. Goodness... Paul speaks of the Law of Moses... not the Law of the Lord.

                        This is what i mean:

                        just as we dont obey the ten commandments to have right standing,

                        (we do obey them but not to be made righteous)

                        do we also not obey Christ commands to have right standing

                        (meaning we obey them but not to be made righteous)

                        for example can i say, i forgive my enemies, therefore i am justified because of doing so.

                        Or, i love God and my neighbors, because of this, i am justified and have right standing

                        as compared to: i am justified by faith in Christ, and because i have been justified i obey Him out of pure love

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                          This is what i mean:

                          just as we dont obey the ten commandments to have right standing,

                          (we do obey them but not to be made righteous)

                          do we also not obey Christ commands to have right standing

                          (meaning we obey them but not to be made righteous)
                          Who is righteous if you aren't obeying the laws of the Lord?


                          Visit our new website
                          ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                          A.W. Tozer said,
                          "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                          GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                            Who is righteous if you aren't obeying the laws of the Lord?

                            Are you saying that we are made righteous by our obedience?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              Are you saying that we are made righteous by our obedience?
                              Well... isn't the righteous man the one that practices righteousness?


                              Visit our new website
                              ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                              A.W. Tozer said,
                              "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                              GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                              Comment

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