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  • The fear of God

    Is this needed after justification and regeneration? Why or why not?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Walstib View Post
    Is this needed after justification and regeneration? Why or why not?
    Yes: This is just one of many verses:

    "Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear" (Hebrews 12:28)

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    • #3
      hmmm.... that word is used quite a number of different ways in most English Bibles...

      I'd say it certainly is evidenced as an understandable condition whenever even the regenerate are confronted with some manifestation of the glory of God. I think there are some beneficial uses of it, even when considering that, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." (1 John 4:18, ESV)

      Comment


      • #4
        I think so. Jesus told Peter and the other disciples "Fear Him...". There is a proper fear of God that only grows, the more we know him, IMO.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Walstib View Post
          Is this needed after justification and regeneration? Why or why not?
          I hope this helps.

          2 Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

          Firstfruits

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Walstib View Post
            Is this needed after justification and regeneration? Why or why not?
            I would say so, the line "fear God" is found 9 times in the NT after the gospels. The word translated as fear, can mean: frightened, in awe, or in reverence. I think it healthy to say all three together fit nicely.

            Peace.
            Ken

            Comment


            • #7
              If it would help, we need to define 'fear'
              The only fear (IMHO) should be a reverence, for God has not given us a Spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind.
              My view is, that if we feel we are being led by fear (other then reverence) then we are not being led by the Spirit.

              This is a page from Vine:

              Fear, Fearful, Fearfulness

              A. Nouns.
              1. phobos (G5401) first had the meaning of "flight," that which is caused by being scared; then, "that which may cause flight," (a) "fear, dread, terror," always with this significance in the four Gospels; also e.g., in Act_2:43; Act_19:17; 1Co_2:3; 1Ti_5:20 (lit., "may have fear"); Heb_2:15; 1Jo_4:18; Rev_11:11; Rev_18:10, Rev_18:15; by metonymy, that which causes "fear," Rom_13:3; 1Pe_3:14, RV, "(their) fear," KJV "(their) terror," an adaptation of the Sept. of Isa_8:12, "fear not their fear"; hence some take it to mean, as there, "what they fear," but in view of Mat_10:28, e.g., it seems best to understand it as that which is caused by the intimidation of adversaries; (b) "reverential fear," (1) of God, as a controlling motive of the life, in matters spiritual and moral, not a mere "fear" of His power and righteous retribution, but a wholesome dread of displeasing Him, a "fear" which banishes the terror that shrinks from His presence, Rom_8:15, and which influences the disposition and attitude of one whose circumstances are guided by trust in God, through the indwelling Spirit of God, Act_9:31; Rom_3:18; 2Co_7:1; Eph_5:21 (RV, "the fear of Christ"); Phi_2:12; 1Pe_1:17 (a comprehensive phrase: the reverential "fear" of God will inspire a constant carefulness in dealing with others in His "fear"); 1Pe_3:2, 1Pe_3:15; the association of "fear and trembling," as, e.g., in Phi_2:12, has in the Sept. a much sterner import, e.g., Gen_9:2; Exo_15:16; Deu_2:25; Deu_11:25; Psa_55:5; Isa_19:16; (2) of superiors, e.g., Rom_13:7; 1Pe_2:18. See TERROR.

              2. deilia (G1167), "fearfulness" (from deos, "fright"), is rightly rendered "fearfulness" in 2Ti_1:7, RV (for KJV, "fear "). That spirit is not given us of God. The word denotes "cowardice and timidity" and is never used in a good sense, as No. 1 is. Cf. deilos, B, No. 2, below, and deiliao, to be fearful (KJV, "afraid"), Joh_14:27.

              3. eulabeia (G2124) signifies, firstly, "caution"; then, "reverence, godly fear," Heb_5:7; Heb_12:28, in best mss., "reverence"; in general, "apprehension, but especially holy fear," "that mingled fear and love which, combined, constitute the piety of man toward God; the OT places its emphasis on the fear, the NT...on the love, though there was love in the fear of God's saints then, as there must be fear in their love now" (Trench, Syn. Sec.xlviii). In the Sept., Jos_22:24; Pro_28:14.

              Note: In Luk_21:11, phobetron (akin to No. 1) denotes a terror, RV, "terrors," for KJV, "fearful sights," i.e., objects or instruments of terror.

              B. Adjectives.
              1. phoberos (G5398), "fearful" (akin to A, No. 1), is used only in the active sense in the NT, i.e., causing "fear," terrible, Heb_10:27, Heb_10:31; Heb_12:21, RV, "fearful," for KJV, "terrible."

              2. deilos (G1169), "cowardly" (see A, No. 2), "timid," is used in Mat_8:26; Mar_4:40; Rev_21:8 (here "the fearful" are first in the list of the transgressors).

              3. ekphobos (G1630), signifies "frightened outright" (ek, "out," intensive, and A, No. 1), Heb_12:21 (with eimi, "I am"), "I exceedingly fear" (see No. 4); Mar_9:6, "sore afraid."

              4. entromos (G1790), "trembling with fear" (en, "in," intensive, and tremo, "to tremble, quake"; Eng., "tremor," etc.), is used with ginomai, "to become," in Act_7:32, "trembled"; Act_16:29, RV, "trembling for fear"; with eimi, "to be," in Heb_12:21, "quake" (some mss. have ektromos here). See QUAKE, TREMBLE.The distinction between No. 3 and No. 4, as in Heb_12:21, would seem to be that ekphobos stresses the intensity of the "fear," entromos the inward effect, "I inwardly tremble (or quake)."
              C. Adverb.
              aphobos (G880) denotes "without fear" (a, negative, and A, No. 1), and is said of serving the Lord, Luk_1:74; of being among the Lord's people as His servant, 1Co_16:10; of ministering the Word of God, Phi_1:14; of the evil of false spiritual shepherds, Jud_1:12. In the Sept., Pro_1:33.

              D. Verbs.
              1. phobeo (G5399), in earlier Greek, "to put to flight" (see A, No. 1), in the NT is always in the passive voice, with the meanings either (a) "to fear, be afraid," its most frequent use, e.g., Act_23:10, according to the best mss. (see No. 2); or (b) "to show reverential fear" [see A, No. 1, (b)], (1) of men, Mar_6:20; Eph_5:33, RV, "fear," for KJV, "reverence"; (2) of God, e.g., Act_10:2, Act_10:22; Act_13:16, Act_13:26; Col_3:22 (RV, "the Lord "); 1Pe_2:17; Rev_14:7; Rev_15:4; Rev_19:5; (a) and (b) are combined in Luk_12:4, Luk_12:5, where Christ warns His followers not to be afraid of men, but to "fear" God. See MARVEL, B, No. 1, Note.

              2. eulbeomai (G2125), "to be cautious, to beware" (see A, No. 3), signifies to act with the reverence produced by holy "fear," Heb_11:7, "moved with godly fear."
              Notes: (1) In Act_23:10 some mss. have this verb with the meaning (a) under No. 1.
              (2) In Luk_3:14, diaseio, "to shake violently, to intimidate, to extort by violence, blackmail," is rendered "put no man in fear" in KJV marg. See VIOLENCE.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                If it would help, we need to define 'fear'
                The only fear (IMHO) should be a reverence, for God has not given us a Spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind.
                My view is, that if we feel we are being led by fear (other then reverence) then we are not being led by the Spirit.
                Hi,

                Would you say then the verse faithfulfriend posted is redundant? ...Reverance and Godly reverence?

                Would you translate it differently?

                I can't shake this notion that I need to be more fearful, past a reverence sort of context.

                Peace,
                Joe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Walstib View Post
                  Would you say then the verse faithfulfriend posted is redundant? ...Reverance and Godly reverence?

                  Would you translate it differently?

                  I can't shake this notion that I need to be more fearful, past a reverence sort of context.

                  Peace,
                  Joe
                  Hey Joe. Partaker did some good research for us. In the new testament, when Jesus told us to "Fear Him" he used the Greek word for phobia. That's a pretty strong fear and IMO, goes beyond reverence.

                  I think you are on to something.

                  Grace and peace,

                  Mark
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    Hey Joe. Partaker did some good research for us. In the new testament, when Jesus told us to "Fear Him" he used the Greek word for phobia. That's a pretty strong fear and IMO, goes beyond reverence.

                    I think you are on to something.

                    Grace and peace,

                    Mark
                    Ya know, it is almost silly to think about. Who are we as compared to God? He holds ALL the cards, is the giver of life, grace, and salvation. While we are members of his household, as far as LIFE goes...we are less compared to him then ants are to us. How can you not have a healthy fear? Don't misunderstand, I am not saying we are nothing to him...far from it.

                    Peace.
                    Ken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Walstib View Post
                      Hi,

                      Would you say then the verse faithfulfriend posted is redundant? ...Reverance and Godly reverence?

                      Would you translate it differently?

                      I can't shake this notion that I need to be more fearful, past a reverence sort of context.

                      Peace,
                      Joe
                      Hi Joe!

                      It may be my age, but I often cringe when I hear some believers talk to God, or about God, as though He were some sort of buddy, or some dude.

                      Then there are others who suffer from 'Theophobia' the fear of God. It means "a morbid fear of God".

                      I read a short message from someone called Chip Brogden, on this subject.

                      He brings us back to the garden of Eden, were Adam and Eve had just sinned.

                      (Gen. 3:10) "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself"

                      Since God has not given us a spirit of fear, but Love, Power and a Sound Mind, if we are led by the Spirit, we are not led by fear (fright, dread, terror, cowardice or timidity)

                      If the motive to please God, in our worship, work, relationship etc, is to appease our fears, then we have a religion.

                      Paul says that whatsoever we do it has to be done from LOVE. Without love, it is empty and meaningless.

                      Like Ken said, there is a healthy fear.
                      If I have no fear when I drive my car, I am heading for trouble, but that fear should not be a phobia, for then I would not drive.

                      I will say this, if we know God's love for us, then all that we do will be from out of love. If we don't know God's love for us, then we will cling to the ROCK, rather then stand firm on the ROCK.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        HI,
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        It may be my age, but I often cringe when I hear some believers talk to God, or about God, as though He were some sort of buddy, or some dude.
                        Jesus as well as the Father?
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        Then there are others who suffer from 'Theophobia' – the fear of God. It means "a morbid fear of God".
                        This to me would be an emotional kind of fear… I was purposeful in my wording to not say “I feel like I should fear God”. That said I am still trying to figure out what that means…

                        I would say there is another type of phobia for believers—the fear of fearing God. Like it would mean they are not truly trusting God if they fear Him. Just does not sit right in me right now. That is the place I was I think.
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        (Gen. 3:10) "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself"
                        Frightened is definitely not the context I am considering.
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        Since God has not given us a spirit of fear, but Love, Power and a Sound Mind, if we are led by the Spirit, we are not led by fear (fright, dread, terror, cowardice or timidity)
                        With, I think, the context of the verse speaking toward a boldness to witness without fear of persecution, I don’t see how this verse would be a good one to really speak of a fear of God. I would say the only, and I mean only, fear that would have any relevance to us would be the fear of God Himself.
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        If the motive to please God, in our worship, work, relationship etc, is to appease our fears, then we have a religion.
                        These would be appeasing the fear of things, no? The more time I spend worried and fearful about what I need the less time I can spend listening to what He would have me do for Him. In Mat 10 we see Jesus telling us to fear God, and to not fear, all the same root word.

                        And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. (Mat 10:28-31 NKJV)

                        Thinking I’m not sure a healthy fear of the Father appeases something, but rather would increase as we grow in our relationship with Him. I'm not sure the motivation of works comes into what I am attempting to qualify.
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        Paul says that whatsoever we do it has to be done from LOVE. Without love, it is empty and meaningless.
                        Yes, and He also in many places qualifies the importance of fearing God. Both have to be available without one canceling out the other I think. Like…

                        If the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and say love is the end of wisdom, to have all wisdom we need fear and love in harmony. I don’t think the opposite of love is fear, but is hate. I think part of this discussion involves people seeing fear as the opposite of love.
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        Like Ken said, there is a healthy fear. If I have no fear when I drive my car, I am heading for trouble, but that fear should not be a phobia, for then I would not drive.
                        Well healthy fear is still fear right? Here we get into definitions again. It’s not a reverence for your car is it? *forgive me the leading questions*
                        Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                        I will say this, if we know God's love for us, then all that we do will be from out of love. If we don't know God's love for us, then we will cling to the ROCK, rather then stand firm on the ROCK.
                        A nice saying for sure. Does not prevent fear from being in a healthy relationship while standing I think.

                        Thanks for the good things to consider, I’m just working out my salvation in fear and trembling here I think, figuring out what it means if I can.

                        Peace,
                        Joe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Walstib View Post
                          Frightened is definitely not the context I am considering.
                          I don't know how old they are or how many kids you have, but you surely have been around others who have children over 4 or 5 and younger than their early teens. What do we see in THEM when they have a loving Father who is strict (out of love) in the way he raises them?

                          I see it in my daughters eye, and am starting to in my son. (she 9 he 5) There is an absolute uninhibited love that they have for me. Yet, when they do something that displeases me, they have a fear of me. Not that I beat them or anything crazy like that, but that they know they have let me down. They know I will be upset, I might send them to their room, give them a swat on the butt, or worse...give them a dreaded lecture. Never is there a fear in them that I will cease to love them, for they know I always will no matter what they do.

                          I think our fear of God is or should be in this vein. He is our Father, we are his children. There are many similarities between how we are to act and walk according to God's will and the fear we have of him.....and how our own children act and walk in our will and have a fear of us. It is a reverent fear, a respectful fear....a fear that allows us to submit to his authority as our own children submit to ours.

                          Peace.
                          Ken

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Walstib View Post
                            Is this needed after justification and regeneration? Why or why not?
                            Luke 1:72-75
                            To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.


                            I think it's needed only before hand. I don't think that there will be fear after justification. Think about it from the perspective of the Garden of Eden. There was no fear of God that Adam and Eve had, fear only came into play after disobedience. Where there is no disobedience, there should be no fear. Thus as his spirit is working through us within this life, there should be a gradual dissipatation of the fears that we once had..as God does not give a spirit of timidity, but of power and courage.

                            That being said, we're still in the flesh..and at times being human we might be subject to feeling irrational fears. Doesn't mean one isn't walking in the spirit, as many times there is a trembling fear that one may have, knowing that the spirit is working through them. This is not a bad thing, as it keeps the flesh into submission under the spirt as God is sanctifying a believer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                              Hi Joe!

                              It may be my age, but I often cringe when I hear some believers talk to God, or about God, as though He were some sort of buddy, or some dude.
                              You know I used to think the same thing, but I think that ideally we should gradually get into the mode of thinking of God as a friend and "mighty counselor" whom we can come to with all of our problems. God called Abraham a friend, thus I do not think it is wrong to want to establish a friendship with God...we just have to pray that it is God who motivates us in the right spirit each time we approach him.

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