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Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

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  • Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

    Dragons appear in the history of many cultures.

    Could he Leviathan described in Job 41 refer to a dragon? Perhaps dragons are not mystical beasts and they did really exist at one time?

    What really strikes me are these versus:

    19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

    20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

    21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.



    They seem to really refer to a fire breathing beast of some sort.


    So what do you think? Not a doctrinal question, just a curiosity.
    “ Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” ~ 1 Peter 1:3

  • #2
    It is exactly as it reads. Dragons or tanniyn (the hebrew word) are more specifically are Dinosaurs. Since dinosaur wasn't term coined until the 1840's, it obviously is not in the bible. The leviathan is clearly a dinosaur (just look at the massiveness in the scripture describing it).

    We have exploding bugs, what says we can't have fire-breathing dinosaurs? Would explain the persistent fire-breathing dragons we find in cultures all around the world-the people actually saw the animal!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Paladin54 View Post
      Dragons appear in the history of many cultures.

      Could he Leviathan described in Job 41 refer to a dragon? Perhaps dragons are not mystical beasts and they did really exist at one time?

      What really strikes me are these versus:

      19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

      20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

      21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.



      They seem to really refer to a fire breathing beast of some sort.


      So what do you think? Not a doctrinal question, just a curiosity.

      in the contro section Tgallison and Jerome1( members) goes into big detail of what the beast/ animal is. it is in:" An indepth study on Job".
      There is a second thread aswell. Jerome1 ask some good questions in that tread. Both are on Job.
      Very informative.
      http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=140623 this is the original study
      http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=143944 this is the response to questions.

      Very good read and study mate

      bennie
      Last edited by bennie; Jan 13th 2009, 03:44 AM. Reason: add tread links

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

        If you read Genesis it is compelling that dinosaurs lived with Adam and Eve and there is the possibility that before the flood killed them, some species had been domesticated as pets to help complete household chores like plowing fields.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

          Originally posted by Romber View Post
          It is exactly as it reads. Dragons or tanniyn (the hebrew word) are more specifically are Dinosaurs. Since dinosaur wasn't term coined until the 1840's, it obviously is not in the bible. The leviathan is clearly a dinosaur (just look at the massiveness in the scripture describing it).

          We have exploding bugs, what says we can't have fire-breathing dinosaurs? Would explain the persistent fire-breathing dragons we find in cultures all around the world-the people actually saw the animal!
          Amen! I believe that both leviathan and behemoth mentioned in the book of Job are dinosaurs.
          Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

            Originally posted by Paladin54 View Post
            Dragons appear in the history of many cultures.

            Could he Leviathan described in Job 41 refer to a dragon? Perhaps dragons are not mystical beasts and they did really exist at one time?

            What really strikes me are these versus:

            19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

            20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

            21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

            They seem to really refer to a fire breathing beast of some sort.

            So what do you think? Not a doctrinal question, just a curiosity.
            Don't forget the last verse.

            34 He beholds every high thing;
            He is king over all the children of pride.”

            More scripture on Leviathan.

            Job 3:8 May those curse it who curse the day, Those who are ready to arouse Leviathan.
            9 May the stars of its morning be dark; May it look for light, but have none, And not see the dawning of the day

            Psalm 74:13 You divided the sea by Your strength; You broke the heads of the sea serpents in the waters. 14 You broke the heads of Leviathan in pieces, And gave him as food to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

            Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. 21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain. 27:1 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

              Thread zombie! On Halloween!
              Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
              Ecc 7:10

              John777 exists to me only in quoted form.


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
                Amen! I believe that both leviathan and behemoth mentioned in the book of Job are dinosaurs.
                Spot on brother, the bible does not make a big deal about "dinosaurs" because they are just another of Gods creations frOm day 6 like the elephant or giraffe.

                But it does reference the massive creations of Gods first works.

                And even today, we still live with these amazing creatures!


                http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...Dinosaurs-quot
                “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                מקום כניעה סך הכל

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                  Originally posted by teddyv View Post
                  Thread zombie! On Halloween!
                  https://youtu.be/v17lMr0j2D8
                  “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                  מקום כניעה סך הכל

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                    Dragons appear in the history of many cultures.

                    Could he Leviathan described in Job 41 refer to a dragon? Perhaps dragons are not mystical beasts and they did really exist at one time?

                    What really strikes me are these versus:

                    19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

                    20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

                    21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.



                    They seem to really refer to a fire breathing beast of some sort.


                    So what do you think? Not a doctrinal question, just a curiosity.
                    Thanks for asking the question, Paladin54. The thing about the Bible is that it is written in parable form, so that creatures and animals are symbolic of other things than just the creatures themselves. If the Bible were not written in parable form, God would expect people who are true believers to go around picking up literal serpents (Rattlesnakes, Coral Snakes, Cobras and such) according to Mark 16:18. Instead of God wanting that, serpents in that verse mean those persons and doctrines under evil control, not real snakes. Further, when the Bible says in John 10:11 that the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep, a literal interpretation would mean that literal sheep are the ones God came to save. Instead, however, the sheep mean those persons who are saved. Persons, not animals. It is no different with dragons. The word dragon occurs in the Bible at least 19 times. Consider, for example, Ezekiel 29:3: "Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself." In this example, it is easy to see that the dragon is Pharaoh king of Egypt. The rivers are the gospel, but unfortunately Pharoah is a picture of someone who has come to the conclusion that the gospel is from himself rather than from God. It is just like the king who boasts, 'is not this great Babylon which I have built?" Anyhow, considering that dragons are mentioned so often in the Bible, it would not be surprising to see this parable form used in the book of Job as well. It is not like it would be discovering suddenly the only place where dragons exist in the Bible. However, some readers see this as a dinosaur instead. While others see this as the beast, and so forth. No matter what creature you consider it to be in the surface text, your real mission should be to find out what the creature is a picture of in its interpreted (parable) meaning. Fortunately, the chapter you mention (Job 41) has lots and lots of description clues to help you work out what person or persons are being represented by the creature. Consider that the creature is called "a king over all the children of pride." (the word for 'pride' can be translated 'dignity' as well.) Or consider, as you have, that fire comes out of his mouth: "Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out." Did you know that Revelation 11:5 talks about people who have fire coming out of their mouths: "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth". These people in Rev 5 are the true believers. The Bible uses the terminology of fire to mean the unsaved condition, spiritually. Fire means spiritual condemnation or judgment. When a true believer shares the gospel it is life coming out of their mouths to save the new convert. However, if the person hearing the true believers gospel rejects that gospel, it is effectively fire (condemnation and judgment) that hearer experiences. There is no literal fire coming out of their mouths. This is the Bibles way of saying that life and judgment are proceeding from the gospel that the true believers have. Fire means simply judgment, which is to say the unsaved condition.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                      The Bible is not all written in parable form.

                      It is written in many different literary genres, and it is important to understand the genre when interpreting any given passage.

                      And Mark 16:18 is not in the original text.
                      Some people are offended that the Sovereign God, because He loved man so much and wanted to be in an intimate relationship with his creation, gave Man a free will to respond to God's grace, offered to all. They are offended that God is God as God chooses to be, not as they choose for God to be.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                        Originally posted by soultoucher View Post
                        If you read Genesis it is compelling that dinosaurs lived with Adam and Eve and there is the possibility that before the flood killed them, some species had been domesticated as pets to help complete household chores like plowing fields.
                        Care to elaborate? Which Scriptures have you read that lead you to these conclusions?
                        Day by day
                        Oh Dear Lord
                        Three things I pray
                        To see thee more clearly
                        Love thee more dearly
                        Follow thee more nearly
                        Day by day

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                          Originally posted by birdy View Post
                          Thanks for asking the question, Paladin54. The thing about the Bible is that it is written in parable form, so that creatures and animals are symbolic of other things than just the creatures themselves.
                          Parts of the Bible are parables, but Job 41 is basically the end of a list of animals God was giving Job... starting in chapter 39. So He mentions a lion, raven, goat, ox, donkey, horse, leading up to a behemoth (some sort of large land animal) and a leviathan (large sea animal, AKA dragon). I don't see why God would tell Job to look around at creation and mention all literal objects like the stars, rain, etc - then literal animals - only to end with a figurative one.

                          I think people believe the leviathan is figurative only because there's no obvious comparison or it sounds unrealistic. It might not have been a dragon like movies and TV portray (Job 41 doesn't mention it having wings and terrorizing villages), but I'm not skeptical of a deep sea creature which boils the water to kill its prey... all the biological necessities for it to be possible have been observed in nature. There are far stranger things in the oceans that we still can't explain, and yet we've discovered more of the surface of Venus than the oceans here on Earth. How do you describe something like this without sounding like a sci-fi writer, lol:

                          「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
                          撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                            The Bible is not all written in parable form.

                            It is written in many different literary genres, and it is important to understand the genre when interpreting any given passage.

                            And Mark 16:18 is not in the original text.
                            Yes, I am familiar with this sort of reaction. However, I believe differently. I believe the Bible tells us it is all written in parable form. Mark 4:34: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." God speaks through the Bible. The 'all things' in this verse is talking about all Bible things which God expounds to his disciples. He is saying that he did NOT speak without a parable: "But without a parable spake he not unto them". In other words, he only speaks WITH a parable. Psalm 78 backs this up, saying that the law of God (the Bible) is a parable: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable". I find that surface interpretation of the Bible leads to many wrong conclusions, and has spawned all kinds of unusual doctrines that are apart from the truth.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Is the Leviathn in Job 41 refer to a dragon?

                              Originally posted by Paladin54 View Post
                              Dragons appear in the history of many cultures.

                              Could he Leviathan described in Job 41 refer to a dragon? Perhaps dragons are not mystical beasts and they did really exist at one time?

                              What really strikes me are these versus:

                              19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

                              20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

                              21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.



                              They seem to really refer to a fire breathing beast of some sort.


                              So what do you think? Not a doctrinal question, just a curiosity.
                              i always thought the serpent in the garden was a dragon.

                              few want to consider what you said, pretty much every ancient culture has dragons in their oral traditions. few of the cultures knew each other, strange they would all make up the same stories.

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