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  • How do we know?

    How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

    but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


    So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?


    i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?

  • #2
    Originally posted by reformedct View Post
    How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

    but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


    So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?
    Reconcile your doctrine with "all" of Scripture.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by reformedct View Post
      How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

      but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


      So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?
      The only way to have the right doctrine is to humble ourselves and let the Holy Spirit dictate doctrine. We have to pray and submit to the control that is truly God's and quit listening to what men tell us. Paul spoke about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 we can only know when the Holy Spirit gives us the revelation right from God.
      I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
      Have you laid your burdens down?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TrustingFollower View Post
        The only way to have the right doctrine is to humble ourselves and let the Holy Spirit dictate doctrine. We have to pray and submit to the control that is truly God's and quit listening to what men tell us. Paul spoke about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 we can only know when the Holy Spirit gives us the revelation right from God.
        But how do you know you have recieved revelation? What if you say you are folowing the Spirit and i say i am also following the Spirit and we end up in two different places? How do we know whose right/wrong?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
          But how do you know you have recieved revelation? What if you say you are folowing the Spirit and i say i am also following the Spirit and we end up in two different places? How do we know whose right/wrong?
          When God says "You were right here here and here, but wrong here here and there."

          However, like Butch said, read all the Scripture. If one person says anything that contradicts even a verse, that's fine, but the Scripture needs to show why their view is right and that the seeming contradiction is not a contradiction.

          When Satan quoted Scripture, Christ didn't call him a liar or say it was wrong. Christ quoted more Scripture to show the fallacy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by reformedct View Post
            How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

            but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


            So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?


            i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?
            Good question.

            Here's my rule of thumb; I do the best I can to read all the scripture, to examine it, and to get it right the first time through.

            But I always try to stay mindful that I am a man, I am fallible, and I could get it wrong. So I come here and listen carefully. I try not to come here just to yell my position over and over, but to consider other ideas, to try to search out the truth.

            Paul spoke of a noble spirit;

            Acts 17:11
            Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
            I try to do this. When I hear a new idea I try to search the scriptures to see if it is so.

            Some of my ideas become reinforced the more I look at scripture. Some become more and more questionable. I've even had to change some as it became clear they weren't right.

            But at all things; the scripture is my basis and foundation.
            One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

            Comment


            • #7
              That’s a good question. How does one know when they are right or wrong? The easy answer would be that their doctrine has to agree with ALL the scriptures has to say about any subject. That’s correct but easier said than done. If everyone who said they were lead by the Spirit were lead by the Spirit, they would all come to the same conclusions. But we know that is never going to happen. So that means that there are many who say they are lead by the Spirit but are not.
              So, you are saying that those who are incorrect in the tiniest bit are not led by the Spirit and therefore condemned.

              When Paul confronted Peter, Paul was led by the Spirit, but make no mistake, The Spirit never left nor forsook Peter. He did as he was led by the Spirit to do.

              Just look at some threads going on at this very moment. There’s one side that is very right and the other side that is very wrong about their doctrines. I honestly just skim through threads of that nature and just shake my head. It’s amazing to me that we all call ourselves Christians yet can’t even harmonize the most basic of beliefs. Are we saved by something we do or believe or by God alone? LOL. So basic but such contoversy. OSAS or not? LOL, so basic but such controversy.


              Some people need to hear one and the other. I would have never come to Christ had I thought it was OSAS, but knowing that POTS is true now doesn't make it wrong that I thought NOSAS. As the Spirit leads, the Christian will go.

              It all really comes down to us. How do we approach the bible? Is it the ultimate authority and infallable? Are we going to listen to it and let it teach us? HA!! Again easier said than done. EVERYONE here will say “yes, I let the word of God teach me”. Noone will tell you different. Everyone that hold onto their main beliefs think that they are following what the bible says. A great example is the “how do we become saved?” issue. Everyone who holds to the doctrine of free will just know for a fact that the bible teaches that we can choose to accept or reject Christ. Everyone who holds to the doctrine of God alone saves just know for a fact that the bible teaches that we can’t choose to follow Christ or that faith helps in salvation.


              Yes let's look at a passage where some may be thinking one thing and the Scripture screams another.

              Someone (not naming names) may say "Many will think they are right when Christ comes to rapture us. But most will realize when they are left that they were wrong."

              Matthew 24:37-40
              37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

              38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
              39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

              I ask, when the flood waters came, who was taken? Who was left? Christ did say that "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.", correct?

              All I can say to those not believing what God says is this. Good luck.


              I find no random chance in the Bible, so I say to you, may God bless you.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is just me and I've been known to be wrong on the past, so...

                Our Christian life is ever growing. When I was a small child, I knew how to ride a bike but I didn't know how to drive a car. As I grew up and it became necessary for me to drive a car, lessons were provided and I learned the skill sets necessary to drive. When I was 8, I didn't need to know how to drive. When I was 18, I DID need to know how to drive in order to get to and from work, etc.

                I think "doctrine" is the same. If I NEED to know something, I will be led into truth by study and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. God knows what we need, when we need it. While I believe the doctrine of Eternal Security was imperative for me to know at a particular point in my life, it may be that another does not have that particular need but MUST know about the Trinity or Baptism.

                Not sure if that makes sense or not - I don't think any of us have a complete knowledge of the total "Truth" - not even in any given aspect of it. We are given what we need at the time to develop our growth in the way God knows is best.
                I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
                - Mahatma Gandhi



                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                  How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

                  but how do we know whose right??
                  The Bible is right, and God is right. In order to find out a doctrine must be tested against the tenure of all the scriptures. We must rightly divide the word of truth.


                  how do you know your interpretation is right??
                  II Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

                  There is no "your" interpretation and "my" interpretation. The Bible is meant to be understood as one doctrine, one truth, one faith. God didn't write the Bible for men to come up with their own conclusions, doctrines, and beliefs.

                  how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol
                  Not everybody is led by the Spirit. Just because an individual claims to be led, doesn't mean it is so. The Bible promises in John:

                  John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth"

                  Obviously those who have the spirit will be led into ALL truth. That's why this belief that "nobody knows all truth" is a deception from the Devil.


                  So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?
                  Majority acceptance of a doctrine does not make it true. Millions of people in the early days believed the Earth was flat....it was not so. The number of people who follow a belief does not determine whether or not it is true.


                  i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?
                  The truth can be revealed to anyone who is willing. Good commentaries are Adam Clarkes, Matthew Henry, and Halleys Bible Handbook. They don't contain all truth, but it's a start.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In trying to determine whether or not we have rightly divided (2Ti 2:15) the Word of truth can be difficult because of the many opinions we have. To Paul the most important aspect of our understanding of truth is determined by our foundation (1Co 3:11; Ep 2:20). Our foundation will determine all of doctine, if the foundation is wrong, our doctrine will be wrong.

                    This gets a bit murky because we all say we build on the foundation of Christ. What do we mean by that? For some the foundation of Christ will be Christ plus our response to Him. But the truthfulness of doctrine does not rely upon the response of man. Without realizing, our foundation has become the foundation of Christ plus man.

                    A doctrine that builds on the foundation of Christ plus man's response to Him, is a doctrine that not only robs God of all glory, but also makes Christ dependent upon fallen man for salvation.

                    How do I know whether or not my doctrine is biblical? Is the True Foundation of my doctrine Christ alone, grace alone, Scripture alone, faith alone, to the glory of God alone...or does my doctrine make man a co-worker or co-regent with Christ in any way? In other words if my doctrine is even in the least bit man-centered, then it is a doctrine coming from the mind of man. Therefore, as a starting place I try to make sure that my understanding of doctrine is God-centered. When I find my understanding of certain doctrine appears to give man some of the glory that rightly belongs to God alone, then my understanding of doctrine is not biblical and must be discarded.

                    Many Blessings,
                    RW

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                      How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

                      but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


                      So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?


                      i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?
                      You can find disrespectful people on both sides of any debate and you can find humble, respectful people on both sides of any debate, so how can you use that as a gauge for who is right or wrong?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                        In trying to determine whether or not we have rightly divided (2Ti 2:15) the Word of truth can be difficult because of the many opinions we have. To Paul the most important aspect of our understanding of truth is determined by our foundation (1Co 3:11; Ep 2:20). Our foundation will determine all of doctine, if the foundation is wrong, our doctrine will be wrong.

                        This gets a bit murky because we all say we build on the foundation of Christ. What do we mean by that? For some the foundation of Christ will be Christ plus our response to Him. But the truthfulness of doctrine does not rely upon the response of man. Without realizing, our foundation has become the foundation of Christ plus man.

                        A doctrine that builds on the foundation of Christ plus man's response to Him, is a doctrine that not only robs God of all glory, but also makes Christ dependent upon fallen man for salvation.

                        How do I know whether or not my doctrine is biblical? Is the True Foundation of my doctrine Christ alone, grace alone, Scripture alone, faith alone, to the glory of God alone...or does my doctrine make man a co-worker or co-regent with Christ in any way? In other words if my doctrine is even in the least bit man-centered, then it is a doctrine coming from the mind of man. Therefore, as a starting place I try to make sure that my understanding of doctrine is God-centered. When I find my understanding of certain doctrine appears to give man some of the glory that rightly belongs to God alone, then my understanding of doctrine is not biblical and must be discarded.

                        Many Blessings,
                        RW
                        ------------------------------------------------------------

                        Excellent post and yes I agree.. the foundation is 'Jesus Christ" its all about God.. and Him alone...

                        Listen to Pauls Words Here...

                        For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

                        this the True Christ.. Jesus the Christ.. God manifest in the flesh..

                        and when He is made the foundation.. its about God... Your life is about what He has done for you.... and you will testify to it.. thru the Power of the Holy Ghost..

                        I posted in another thread about His Chastisement in my life.. and this was the major reason for His discipline in my life as a New Christian.. because I had 'slowly' progressed into what He had done in my life to a 'man centered' type of salvation and what I could do and what I've done... He Gently turned me around again to get the focus back On Him .. and what He did and will continue to do in my life... with the focus all pointing towards what He did on Calvary.. its because of that I exist today and His Unmerited Favor and Grace in my life.. and its the fact the He Loved me first... those who have a God centered foundation will understand this.......

                        It's because of Him I exist today...

                        and the foundation must be in Him.. Jesus Christ, and not man centered religous works or theology... and when Its IN HIM.. then you will 'know' and understand... He will HELP you and GIVE YOU strenth and Widsom to understand... For He is Humble and Meek and very Patient and His Burden is Light and not Heavy......... He loves you! amen and amen..
                        Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                        ------------------------------------------------
                        Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                        ------------------------------------------------
                        The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                        Jeremiah 31:3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                          How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

                          but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


                          So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?


                          i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?
                          First of all, it is critically important that we separate the doctrine from the man teaching it or advocating for it. The truth is the truth regardless of the man; and false doctrine is false doctrine regardless of the man.

                          Secondly, the Holy Spirit is not a respecter of persons; He has taught the very same truths and interpretations of them to Christians willing to receive them throughout the history of the Church. Other spirits have taught other Christians a vast multitude of wrong and conflicting doctrines. Every true doctrine can be found being taught throughout the history of the Church; they are generally accompanied by false doctrines, but the true doctrines are there in their midst. Therefore, a good test for the truth of any doctrine taught today is whether or not it is found being taught throughout the history of the Church. If it is not, it is a spurious and false doctrine—as are very many doctrines being taught and advocated for today. If it is found being taught throughout the history of the Church, further tests must be applied to it because a number of false doctrines have been taught throughout the history of the Church.

                          Once it has been established that a doctrine has been taught throughout the history of the church, all of the other relevant facts must be considered because, in order for any doctrine to be true, it must be in harmony with all of the facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vhayes View Post
                            This is just me and I've been known to be wrong on the past

                            I do not recall that event.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              How do we know what the correct doctrine of Scripture is? lol for example, either you can lose your salvation or not right? (Just an example do not turn this into a OSAS/NOSAS debate!)

                              but how do we know whose right?? how do you know your interpretation is right?? how can any of us know?? Be led by the Spirit? Thats what everyone says and look at us! lol


                              So how do we know what is 100% right and whats not? Do we go by majority historical acceptance? is that safe?


                              i personally look at fruit and respect of Scripture. Does the person (or do i) hold a high view of Scripture, as the only authoritative Word of God? Do they interpret literally or do they have some weird new trajectory hermaneutic?(Bell/Mclaren) Also what is the temperment of that person? Are they like Jesus? Or are they mean-spirited, finger pointing tighty religious in personality? Ive learned for the most part that people who yell all the time OR TYPE LIKE THIS are normally off. So that is my view. Do they stand under the Bible in humility or over it looking down? Do they change as society does or do they stay the same throughout? And can you always sense a feeling of love and concern and a connection with Jesus from them? Or do they just like to argue all the time disrespectfully?

                              A marvelous question.

                              We on this board of diamterically opposed views of dcotrine in some areas and we all know that we are right . We will be surprised when we found out where our error was, and where it was not. Doctrine can be very divisive and at the same time very binding to one another. We must always keep in mind that our doctrine will not save us. Our salvation rests solely on the accomplished work of Messiah. When doctrinal disputations arise, as they will and do, we must always keep or mind on the prize - the high calling of God in Messiah Y'shua.

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