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  • Once saved always saved?

    Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?

  • #2
    Ok, since it is early in the thread I will take a swing at it.

    Salvation is not just a past event. It happened at the cross, it happens when we accept Christ, but it is not complete until the judgment.

    Both the Greek and the Hebrew convey this idea. Our silly arguments would fall to the wayside if we were to consider the entirety of scripture rather then picking a few verses and pitting them against each other.

    Scripture will not controdict its self.
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    ....Live your life the same way.... ~ *

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nessa View Post
      Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
      I think there are at least three active threads on this subject now. I think most people that are willing to discuss this have already weighed in on one of them.
      Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nessa View Post
        Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
        Good question.

        Here's a scripture:
        1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

        We are born again not of a seed that is corruptible or could fade away, but of an incorruptible seed. I don't picutre an incorruptible seed going away or being 'lost'.

        Here's another:
        Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom [Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
        14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

        God seals us with the holy spirit upon our believing faith in Christ - our salvation. He doesn't mention a partial seal or a broken seal. And then he even says that it is the down-payment UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, instead of saying that he's going to lose you before that redemption.

        Since scripture doesn't use the term 'once saved always saved' we must search the scriptures and see what they say along the topic. If God does a lasting work of salvation after we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ when we are sealed with the holy spirit, then loosing it is kinda out of the question. But if God doesn't make his work of salvation last even after we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - then it seems kind of a half-hearted effort on God's ability to seal us with the holy spirit - and a less than lasting accomplishment of our Lord Jesus Christ's salvation that he did for us.

        I believe that it shows a much more loving God and a God who is faithful to his word to seal us until the redemption if we lose not our salvation upon receiving it. It also shows a much more permanent accomplishment in the work of our Lord Jesus Christ in his sacrifice on the cross. It's like saying 'yeah I know you accomplished our salvation, but somehow it got lost along the way!'

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        • #5
          I agree Amos.

          Originally posted by nessa View Post
          Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
          Yes. There are many passages for and against OSAS, which makes it impossible to cling to one set of verses without ignoring the other set of verses. Salvation is by grace through faith alone. Really! Alone! Keep the faith to the end and you will be saved.

          Comment


          • #6
            ... The problem with arguing this doctrine, taught in the scriptures, is the inability of so very many people to remember context, context and did I say context? The Bible, the very Word of God, does teach eternal salvation and if you can be saved and then lose it you never had eternal salvation. The big argument surfaces as soon as people forget that the Bible is one continuous context from Gen. 1:1 through the last Amen of Revelation. that being said, Jesus explained the entire hoorah in the parable of the sower and the seeds. When the seed for a large field is cast (thrown by hand) it lands all over the place, just as does the Gospel when it is preached. Some of the seed lands on good ground and receives the right amount of sunlight and water and grows rapidly and produces fruit. The seed that landed on a stone just lies there and never produces because it has no roots. Then there is the seed that confuses the issue. This seed takes root, springs from the ground rapidly but then just dies because it had not enough soil depth or sunshine or water. In the church today that is the person that makes a big splash, works like crazy, thinks he is doing great because he is so busy but he burns out and leaves. He never made contact with God through the Holy Spirit because he never sought after it and so he was never saved but he looked good.
            ... Jesus even told His desciples that He preached in parables so that the ones that were truely listening would know and the rest would just miss the message. What you ought to do, I'm assuming your not as mature a Christian as this old man is, is to watch carefully for what God is doing and when you see an old fox or an old woman if your a lass, then join them in the work. If you'll do just this you will grow closer and closer to God and all the nay sayers will never shake you because you'll learn to hear God.

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with both Amos and Sirus on this. We claim salvation now through faith in Jesus Christ, but that salvation is not completed until the judgment. We have the promise from God that we will be saved if we continue in faith so we can cling to that promise. We can't gain nor lose what we don't already have in hand, hence the reason the apostles all preached on preserving until the end in faith in Jesus Christ.
              I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
              Have you laid your burdens down?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nessa View Post
                Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
                Well this has certainly been a hot topic lately, along with debate on alcohol.

                OSAS is untrue, and here are the passages to show such:

                I. Parables that show the possibility of falling from grace.
                1. The sower and the seed (or the soil). Matthew 13:1-23; especially verses 20-21: Mt 13:20-21 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Also Luke 8:4-15; especially verse 13: Lu 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. Note that Matthew has that they “endured” (were saved) for a time, then were offended. Luke has that many believed for a time, then fell away.

                2. The vine and the branches (John 15:1-8). Note verse two: Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Branches that are in Christ (new creatures II Cor. 5:17) are “taken away” (cut off) if they do not bear fruit. Same thought in verse six: Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

                3. The lost sheep (Matthew 18:12-14). This sheep was once with the shepherd (Christ) but strayed away from Christ, then was brought back. The argument that this sheep was still secure because it was still a sheep is invalid. In this parable the saved are represented by the sheep in the fold. The unsaved (lost) are represented by the sheep that is lost. Once it was saved, then lost.

                4. The fruitless tree (Luke 13:6-9), teaches exactly the same truth as the fruitless branch of John 15.

                5. The five foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13). These virgins had lights (were saved) but these lights went out. They were rejected.

                II. Some did backslide.
                1. Peter (Matthew 26:69-75). He denied Christ. One who does these things cannot be a Christian. Luke 22:32 teaches that Peter had a second conversion following his defection: Lu 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

                2. Judas. Judas was given the same power as the other apostles. Had he not been a Christian, this would have been impossible. Judas fell (ceased to be in grace) through transgression. Acts 1:25: That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.The Bible does not say he was a devil from the beginning. In John 6:70, Judas is called a devil (opposer) just like Peter is called Satan (opposer) in Matthew 16:23.

                3. Hymaenaeus and Alexander. I Timothy 1:19-20: Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

                III. Apostasy is shown to be possible.
                1. Ezekiel 33:18: When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. This is a prophecy of the gospel dispensation.

                2. Romans 11:20-21: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Christians can be cut off.

                3. I Corinthians 8:11: And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? It is possible for a weak brother to PERISH through our uncharitable activities.

                4. I Corinthians 9:27: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. As great as Paul was, he knew he could still be lost.

                5. I Corinthians 10:12: Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. An admonition showing the possibility of apostacy.

                6. Galatians 5:4: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. People can “fall from grace.”

                7. I Thessalonians 3:5: For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. If these failed under temptations, Paul’s labors in getting them saved would be wasted labor.

                8. I Timothy 5:11-12: But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. Those who cast off their first faith are damned.

                9. Hebrews 3:6, 12, 14:
                Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
                Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
                Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
                Admonitions showing the possibility of falling.

                10. Hebrews 4:11: Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. We can fall just as the Israelites did.

                11. Hebrews 6:4-6: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. These passages very strongly show the possibility of final and complete apostasy, as well as backsliding. (As well as Hebrews 10:26-39)

                12. Hebrews 12:15: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; It is possible for one to fail (lack) the grace of God after having had it at one time.

                13. James 5:19-20: Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. People who have departed from the truth require a second conversion experience.

                14. II Peter 1:10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: An admonition to avoid falling from grace.

                15. II Peter 2:20-22: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. A strong statement showing how apostasy can come.

                16. Revelation 3:14-16: And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. God will not tolerate unwholesome conditions.

                END PART I....PART II in next post.

                Comment


                • #9
                  PART II

                  IV. Saving faith and obedience are inseparably linked in the following texts.
                  1. Matthew 24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Must endure (be obedient) to the end to be saved.

                  2. Romans 1:5: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

                  3. Romans 2:6-11: Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. This passage repeatedly indicates that we will be judged by our deeds and failure to obey will bring swift retribution. Remember verse 11 says that God is no respecter of persons. He will not take one person to heaven and send another one to hell for the same act.

                  4. Romans 3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. The idea that Christians can do as they please in regard to the demands of God is spiked by this text.

                  5. Romans 6:1-2: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Christians must be dead to sin. If one continues in sin, it is proof he is not a Christian.

                  6. Romans 6:12-16: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? The proof of being a Christian is in the life one lives. If he yields his members unto sin, it will produce death even if he did at one time believe on the Lord.

                  7. Romans 6:17-23: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Same thought as above. The wages of sin, even in one who once believed on the Lord, is death.

                  8. Romans 8:13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. If one who once had life, changes his life, changes his way of life and lives after the flesh, he shall die.

                  9. I Corinthians 6:9-10: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. If a believer should commit one of these sins, he would cease to be a believer and would lose his inheritance.

                  10. Galatians 6:7-8: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. If a so-called Christian sows to the flesh, he will reap corruption (death) according to this passage.

                  11. Hebrews 3:14-19: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Only by maintaining faithful obedience to the end can we hope to be with Christ in eternity. Note verse 14.

                  12. Hebrews 4:2, 6, 11:
                  Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
                  Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
                  Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
                  We can fail to enter in just as the Israelites failed to enter in though they were delivered from Egypt.

                  13. James 2:14-26: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. It is absurd to claim to have faith if one is living a life of sin at the same time. Such faith is dead and valueless. It will not stand the judgment test.

                  14. I John 3:6-10: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Christians do not sin. Those who are righteous do righteous deeds. We know sinners (unsaved people) by the fact that they sin. Such are of the devil. Note verse 10. Efforts to weaken these texts by the use of the Greek tenses is of no avail. In verse 8, “He that committeth sin is of the devil” is in the present tense. It is argued that this should read, He who habitually sins is of the devil. Now this is true as far as it goes. Certainly one who habitually sins is of the devil. The Greek present tense also has the significance of a process as well as a repeated action. Hence the full translation of this text would have to read, He who is in the process of sinning or who habitually sins is of the devil.

                  15. Revelation 21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. There will be a lot of church members in this group.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nessa View Post
                    Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
                    Well, personally I believe, "Once saved, always saved". However, Jesus said there would be some that call Him "Lord", but He would tell His Father He does not know them. I think those are the people who claim to be Christian, they might even believe it because they were raised in church or whatever, but they never really accepted Jesus as their Savior. A lot of people give lip service to Jesus, but they never really pick up their cross and follow Him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nessa View Post
                      Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
                      No, there are not. There are a number of “proof texts” that have been put forth to prove that once a Christian is saved he cannot lose his salvation, but when each of these “proof texts” is read in the Greek New Testament we find that it is necessary to assume in them an anomalous use of the Greek tenses and moods (especially the Greek present tense, the Greek perfect tense, and the subjunctive mood) and an anomalous use of the vocabulary and phraseology of the first century church in order for them to teach such a thing.

                      That is not at all the case regarding the passages in the New Testament that teach that the Christians continued salvation is conditional upon his continued faith in Christ and his continued obedience to Christ. There are a number of these passages, including the following:

                      Matt. 13:18-23
                      Matt. 24:9-13
                      Mark 4:13-20
                      Luke 8:11-15
                      Rom. 11:16-22
                      1 Cor. 9:25-27
                      1 Cor. 10:1-11
                      Col. 1:21-23
                      2 Thess. 2:3
                      1 Tim. 1:18-20
                      1 Tim. 4:1
                      Heb. 3:12-15
                      Heb. 6:4-9
                      Heb. 10:26-31
                      2 Pet. 2:20-22
                      2 Pet. 3:17-18
                      Rev. 3:5
                      Rev. 22:19

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nessa View Post
                        Well my friend said that once saved always saved is the truth. That once your a christian you cant lose your salvation. Is there any scriptures in the bible on this?
                        I haven't weighed in on this topic yet so here goes.

                        Often what is couched in this question is :"How far can I go and still be saved?".
                        So a good reply to your friend would be, "Why do you ask"? If they are truly trembling with fear of losing their salvation, then the Gospel promises need to be given for comfort and assurance.
                        On the other hand if the questioner seems to be playing theological gymnastics, or is known to be in sin or complacency, then stern warnings about falling away from Christ is in order.
                        All in all, I would say "If it is possible to lose the salvation one already has it would mean that they would have to lose Christ and the Holy Spirit. And this would only be thru a continual hardening of heart due to sin until they reach a point where they ultimately reject Jesus as their Savior. You tell me if that rejection is possible...I don't know.
                        ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          faithfulfriend posted just a few of the verses that prove tghis doctrice false. As jermand has pointed out even the verses they FOR their position in reality speaks against it when you consider two things:

                          1)As has been pointed out, the parsing of the verbs in Greek
                          2) The conditions set in the verse before it.

                          example one(parsing of the verb)

                          John 3:16
                          16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


                          They use this verse and say "see ,the life is everlasting" What they fail to mention that the "believeth" has a durative aspect in the greek and it means that the "whosoever' is continuously believing

                          example two(conditions to the promise)

                          John 10:28-29
                          And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
                          My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

                          Here we see that we are promised that we can never be plucked from the Father's hand...it looks like they got us. However, what does the verse before this say?

                          John 10:27

                          My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

                          Now we see the conditions
                          1) They hear his voice
                          2)He knows them( or is intimate with them)
                          3)They follow him

                          However even with all of this I think it is crossnote that has hit it on the head.

                          Why are we asking the question? Is it to see how far we can go and still be saved?
                          Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I dont have a lot of scripture to back this up like a lot of my brothers and sisters do for their belief on this.....but this is what I do know:

                            1. Jesus tells us that there is only ONE sin that He is unable to forgive and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Now what does that mean? To me it means -- not falling away, because falling away means you still believe but arent active in your walk any more --turning your back to God and renouncing Him. To me it seems pretty cut and dry..... If you believe in Jesus and what He did on the Cross then you will recieve salvation.

                            2. The Bible also states that salvation is given on faith not deeds. Yes James does state that faith with out works is dead but that is something different, that I will get to in a second. But to say that we must do certain things or that we can do something to LOSE our salvation then puts us in control of our own destiny and then doesnt that lessen the sacrifice Christ made on the cross?

                            3. Though James does say that faith without works is dead, that is NOT aclaim that we can lose our salvation. Paul talks about the different levels of heaven. So as believers we all pass the initial judgment. We all get into heaven because of Christ. Where works come in to play is at the second judgment. This judgment determines our placement in Heaven. This judgment is based off of what you did as a Christian while on earth. Did you use the gifts God blessed you with to the best of your ability or did you just sit on the proverbial sidelines?

                            Just my 2 cents though......
                            "I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
                            -- (Psalm 18:1-2)

                            "Those who wait on the Lord will gain new strength; they will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk ant not be weary" -- (Isaiah 40:31)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JesusPhreak27 View Post
                              I dont have a lot of scripture to back this up like a lot of my brothers and sisters do for their belief on this.....but this is what I do know:

                              1. Jesus tells us that there is only ONE sin that He is unable to forgive and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Now what does that mean? To me it means -- not falling away, because falling away means you still believe but arent active in your walk any more --turning your back to God and renouncing Him. To me it seems pretty cut and dry..... If you believe in Jesus and what He did on the Cross then you will recieve salvation.

                              2. The Bible also states that salvation is given on faith not deeds. Yes James does state that faith with out works is dead but that is something different, that I will get to in a second. But to say that we must do certain things or that we can do something to LOSE our salvation then puts us in control of our own destiny and then doesnt that lessen the sacrifice Christ made on the cross?

                              3. Though James does say that faith without works is dead, that is NOT aclaim that we can lose our salvation. Paul talks about the different levels of heaven. So as believers we all pass the initial judgment. We all get into heaven because of Christ. Where works come in to play is at the second judgment. This judgment determines our placement in Heaven. This judgment is based off of what you did as a Christian while on earth. Did you use the gifts God blessed you with to the best of your ability or did you just sit on the proverbial sidelines?

                              Just my 2 cents though......
                              I agree with you! Salvation is completed at the cross. The purpose of Jesus' sacrifice was so He would be judged in our stead, thus enabling our relationship with God be restored. The wrong concept that salvation is not complete until judgement is just so full of fear and hopelessness since none of us can perfectly tow the mark up until that time.

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