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  • Man is born with a sinless nature

    Of course i believe the opposite, but i would like to see Scriptures that are in support of man being born with a sinless nature. Perhaps i will be convinced to change my views

  • #2
    Well that title gave me a small palpitation!

    No man born of man is sinless. Christ wasn't conceived as you and I were - men (woman) - by a man, but of the Spirit, of God.

    Matthew 1
    9And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.


    2 Corinthians 5
    21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
    Not second or third, but first.
    Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
    when He is the source of all hope,
    when His love is received and freely given,
    holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
    will all other things be added unto to you.

    Comment


    • #3
      it is the fact that we are born with the nature to sin that we need god no matter who we are or who we were raised by

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nanoson View Post
        it is the fact that we are born with the nature to sin that we need god no matter who we are or who we were raised by
        lol i believe with you, but i am just using this thread to give those with an alternative view a chance to Scripturaly support their position. I have seen there are a few on this site who dont believe that we are born with a corrupted nature (which of course would be related to Adam)

        so all we have to do is see if there is Scripture that supports men being born with a sinless nature

        Comment


        • #5
          i don't believe there is unless

          A. There reworded it to change it's meaning
          or
          B. It refers to Christ who is an exemption to the rule because though is man he is also God

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by reformedct View Post
            lol i believe with you, but i am just using this thread to give those with an alternative view a chance to Scripturaly support their position. I have seen there are a few on this site who dont believe that we are born with a corrupted nature (which of course would be related to Adam)

            so all we have to do is see if there is Scripture that supports men being born with a sinless nature
            I have also seen this doctrine on other forums and in some chat rooms. Seems that those who believe this haven't read Romans 5:12:

            Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)
            And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:17)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
              lol i believe with you, but i am just using this thread to give those with an alternative view a chance to Scripturaly support their position. I have seen there are a few on this site who dont believe that we are born with a corrupted nature (which of course would be related to Adam)

              so all we have to do is see if there is Scripture that supports men being born with a sinless nature
              All were born with a sin nature even Adam. Paul illustrates it in Romans using himself as the example, but the example is the very same commandment Adam had.

              Romans 7:7-11 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." (8) But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. (9) I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. (10) The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. (11) For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

              Adam had one rule, don't eat of the tree of good and evil. That rule comes down to do not covet. Adam broke that command as God knew he would. We are no different than Adam. We have the same sin nature he had.
              I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
              Have you laid your burdens down?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                Of course i believe the opposite, but i would like to see Scriptures that are in support of man being born with a sinless nature. Perhaps i will be convinced to change my views
                Greetings.

                All men are born with a sinful nature, flesh and blood; including the man Jesus. Perhaps a word study of "sinful nature" might help. Exactly what, according to scripture, does "sinful nature" mean?

                Jake
                Jake

                What does the bible say?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                  Greetings.

                  All men are born with a sinful nature, flesh and blood; including the man Jesus. Perhaps a word study of "sinful nature" might help. Exactly what, according to scripture, does "sinful nature" mean?

                  Jake
                  How is it that Christ was sinful when scripture clearly says He was sinless?

                  Hebrews 4
                  14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
                  15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
                  16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
                  Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                  Not second or third, but first.
                  Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                  when He is the source of all hope,
                  when His love is received and freely given,
                  holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                  will all other things be added unto to you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                    How is it that Christ was sinful when scripture clearly says He was sinless?

                    Hebrews 4
                    14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
                    15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
                    16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
                    christ was tempted by his humanly sinful nature but due to his divineness never actually sinned, he always rose above the nature

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                      How is it that Christ was sinful when scripture clearly says He was sinless?

                      Hebrews 4
                      14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
                      15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
                      16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
                      it is my understanding that the sin of Adam is spread through the head male. There is something about the male that is significant. When Eve ate the forbidden fruit, her eyes were not opened until Adam also ate. It wasnt until the head also sinned that the woman was effected. SO Jesus did not have a sinful nature because he was not born of a human man. Also the Bible says he came in the likeness of sinful flesh not a sinful nature. there is a difference between the sinful flesh, our physical bodies, and sinful nature ( a heart or inner nature that is sinful) Jesus was concieved of incorruptable seed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                        How is it that Christ was sinful when scripture clearly says He was sinless?

                        Hebrews 4
                        14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
                        15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
                        16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
                        I suggest you learn the meaning, according to scripture, of "sinful nature".

                        Here's a little help. If my memory serves me correctly, the NIV translation was the first to use the phrase "sinful nature". Consider;

                        Rom 7:5
                        5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
                        NIV

                        There is also a footnote at "sinful nature" which states;

                        Rom 7:5
                        7:5 a Or the flesh; also in verse 25
                        NIV

                        Now let's consider the same passage in the KJV;

                        Rom 7:5
                        5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
                        KJV

                        Our "sinful nature" is simple our flesh and blood body or "outward man", which Jesus also shared in. It doesn't mean he committed sin, but rather took on the form of flesh and blood.

                        Being "controlled by the sinful nature" is merely choosing to be slave to sin, Rom 6:16.

                        Jake
                        Jake

                        What does the bible say?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                          I suggest you learn the meaning, according to scripture, of "sinful nature".

                          Here's a little help. If my memory serves me correctly, the NIV translation was the first to use the phrase "sinful nature". Consider;

                          Rom 7:5
                          5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
                          NIV

                          There is also a footnote at "sinful nature" which states;

                          Rom 7:5
                          7:5 a Or the flesh; also in verse 25
                          NIV

                          Now let's consider the same passage in the KJV;

                          Rom 7:5
                          5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
                          KJV

                          Our "sinful nature" is simple our flesh and blood body or "outward man", which Jesus also shared in. It doesn't mean he committed sin, but rather took on the form of flesh and blood.

                          Being "controlled by the sinful nature" is merely choosing to be slave to sin, Rom 6:16.

                          Jake
                          Your understanding of what the sin nature is incorrect. Sin nature is not a flesh thing, but rather a spiritual thing. When we come to Christ and are made anew we crucify the old man which is the sin nature and are give a new heart. Paul shows this if you read a little further in Romans 7. His flesh still sins, but he no longer considers that to be where he walks. Paul states that he serves God with his mind while his flesh serve the law of sin.

                          Romans 7:21-25 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. (22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, (23) but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (24) Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? (25) Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

                          Simply put sin nature is where our spirit sows to. Are we going to allow our spirit to be subject to the will pf the flesh and fulfill just the desires of the flesh or are we going to sow to the heavenly and deny the fleshy desires. It is all a matter of where our hearts are and the focus of our minds being continually on Christ.
                          I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
                          Have you laid your burdens down?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                            I suggest you learn the meaning, according to scripture, of "sinful nature".

                            Here's a little help. If my memory serves me correctly, the NIV translation was the first to use the phrase "sinful nature". Consider;

                            Rom 7:5
                            5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
                            NIV

                            There is also a footnote at "sinful nature" which states;

                            Rom 7:5
                            7:5 a Or the flesh; also in verse 25
                            NIV

                            Now let's consider the same passage in the KJV;

                            Rom 7:5
                            5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
                            KJV

                            Our "sinful nature" is simple our flesh and blood body or "outward man", which Jesus also shared in. It doesn't mean he committed sin, but rather took on the form of flesh and blood.

                            Being "controlled by the sinful nature" is merely choosing to be slave to sin, Rom 6:16.

                            Jake
                            but dont you think there is a difference between being concieved by the Holy Spirit and being concieved by a normal fleshly man and woman?

                            is the "nature" of a man concieved by the Holy Spirit

                            exactly the same as the "nature" of a man concieved by a normal man?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nanoson View Post
                              christ was tempted by his humanly sinful nature but due to his divineness never actually sinned, he always rose above the nature
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              it is my understanding that the sin of Adam is spread through the head male. There is something about the male that is significant. When Eve ate the forbidden fruit, her eyes were not opened until Adam also ate. It wasnt until the head also sinned that the woman was effected. SO Jesus did not have a sinful nature because he was not born of a human man. Also the Bible says he came in the likeness of sinful flesh not a sinful nature. there is a difference between the sinful flesh, our physical bodies, and sinful nature ( a heart or inner nature that is sinful) Jesus was concieved of incorruptable seed
                              Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                              I suggest you learn the meaning, according to scripture, of "sinful nature".

                              Here's a little help. If my memory serves me correctly, the NIV translation was the first to use the phrase "sinful nature". Consider;

                              Rom 7:5
                              5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
                              NIV

                              There is also a footnote at "sinful nature" which states;

                              Rom 7:5
                              7:5 a Or the flesh; also in verse 25
                              NIV

                              Now let's consider the same passage in the KJV;

                              Rom 7:5
                              5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
                              KJV

                              Our "sinful nature" is simple our flesh and blood body or "outward man", which Jesus also shared in. It doesn't mean he committed sin, but rather took on the form of flesh and blood.

                              Being "controlled by the sinful nature" is merely choosing to be slave to sin, Rom 6:16.

                              Jake
                              Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                              but dont you think there is a difference between being concieved by the Holy Spirit and being concieved by a normal fleshly man and woman?

                              is the "nature" of a man concieved by the Holy Spirit

                              exactly the same as the "nature" of a man concieved by a normal man?
                              HUH??? How in the world are you against the scripture that clearly states that Christ was tempted but never sinned? He was sinless.

                              He was fully man and fully God. God in the flesh. His flesh was the only thing that made Him able to be tempted. His divinity spiritually far outweigh his fleshy self. That is how it ought to be for us, to be spiritually strong to resist sin when the flesh desires it.

                              Hebrews 2
                              11For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12saying,
                              "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,
                              IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE."
                              13And again,
                              "I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM "
                              And again,
                              "BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME."
                              14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that (through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
                              15and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
                              16For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
                              17Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
                              18For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.


                              He was made man for many reasons, but one of which was so that He could understand our peril in this world to resist temptation.

                              I'm just not understanding the objection to the verses I shared above. It says what it says.
                              Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                              Not second or third, but first.
                              Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                              when He is the source of all hope,
                              when His love is received and freely given,
                              holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                              will all other things be added unto to you.

                              Comment

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