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  • Discussion Fulfill the Law?

    Hey everyone....

    For the longest time I was under the belief that with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ that we were free from the Law.

    But earlier today while preparing to start the Gospel of Matthew in my Life Application Bible (I have a 365 day bible reading program that I started Jan 1 -- it starts with Genesis then Matthew back to Exodus etc) and it showed this as the "key verse":

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill them." (Matt 5:17)

    Now as I said previously I always thought that we are no longer under the Law.

    But the blurb for Matt. 5:17 states this:

    "When Jesus talked about a new way to understand God's Law, he was actually trying to bring people back to its original purpose. Jesus did not speak against the Law itself, but against the abuses and excesses to which it had been subjected."

    Then it prompts me to read John 1:17 which states:

    "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

    The blurb for this verse states:

    "Law and Grace are both aspects of God's nature that He uses in dealing with us. Moses emphasized God's Law and justice, while Jesus came to highlight God's mercy, love and forgiveness. Moses could only be the giver of the Law, while Christ came to fulfill the Law (Matt. 5:17). The nature and will of God were revealed in the Law; now the nature and will of God are revealed in Jesus Christ. Rather then coming through cold stone tablets, God's revelation (truth) now comes through a person's life. As we get to know Christ better, our understanding of God will increase."


    This is probably the hardest part of my faith to figure out for me! Im so confused about what we are supposed to do in regards to the Law. And I still dont understand what Christ meant when He said that He did not come to abolish but fulfill the Law.

    Help? Anyone?
    "I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
    -- (Psalm 18:1-2)

    "Those who wait on the Lord will gain new strength; they will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk ant not be weary" -- (Isaiah 40:31)

  • #2
    There are different covenants God made at different times. In my opinion, the Levitical Law was for the nation of Israel only. If the covenant God made through Jesus was just a continuation of the old Covenant, why make Jesus die on the cross and why call it "new" and not re-newed?

    When you took the mortgage out on your house, you entered a contract or a covenant with the bank. When all of your payments have been made, you no longer have to pay the bank, the obligation or covenant has been fulfilled.

    The new covenant means living under the Law of Liberty that is in Christ. If the Holy Spirit guides and leads, you are indeed living under the Law of Liberty.

    Does that help any at all?
    V
    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
    - Mahatma Gandhi



    Comment


    • #3
      In my opinion, Jesus fulfilled the law in the respect of forgiveness of sin by being our atonement for our sin debt. However, God made the laws(the ten commnandments) and they are to be kept, as God doesn't change, HE is always the same. Jesus said if we kept these two commandements, 1) Love thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul and strength, and 2) Love thy neighbor as thyself...they would cover the ten commandments that God gave to Moses. So, they are still in place. Alleluia~~~~The law could not abolish sin, only cover it. So, God sent Jesus to die for us, and through the shedding of HIS spotless blood, we can be saved and cleansed!! Thank YOU, Jesus...Thank YOU, Father God!!!
      John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.


      My testimony: http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137007

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JesusPhreak27 View Post
        Hey everyone....

        For the longest time I was under the belief that with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ that we were free from the Law.

        But earlier today while preparing to start the Gospel of Matthew in my Life Application Bible (I have a 365 day bible reading program that I started Jan 1 -- it starts with Genesis then Matthew back to Exodus etc) and it showed this as the "key verse":

        "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill them." (Matt 5:17)

        Now as I said previously I always thought that we are no longer under the Law.

        But the blurb for Matt. 5:17 states this:

        "When Jesus talked about a new way to understand God's Law, he was actually trying to bring people back to its original purpose. Jesus did not speak against the Law itself, but against the abuses and excesses to which it had been subjected."

        Then it prompts me to read John 1:17 which states:

        "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

        The blurb for this verse states:

        "Law and Grace are both aspects of God's nature that He uses in dealing with us. Moses emphasized God's Law and justice, while Jesus came to highlight God's mercy, love and forgiveness. Moses could only be the giver of the Law, while Christ came to fulfill the Law (Matt. 5:17). The nature and will of God were revealed in the Law; now the nature and will of God are revealed in Jesus Christ. Rather then coming through cold stone tablets, God's revelation (truth) now comes through a person's life. As we get to know Christ better, our understanding of God will increase."


        This is probably the hardest part of my faith to figure out for me! Im so confused about what we are supposed to do in regards to the Law. And I still dont understand what Christ meant when He said that He did not come to abolish but fulfill the Law.

        Help? Anyone?
        Have a look at the following scriptures:

        Luke 18:31-34

        Luke 24:25-27, 44-48

        Psalm 22:

        Isaiah 53:

        These are what Christ used to explain to the Disciples what he meant in the following;

        Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

        God bless you!

        Firstfruits

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Vhayes View Post
          There are different covenants God made at different times. In my opinion, the Levitical Law was for the nation of Israel only. If the covenant God made through Jesus was just a continuation of the old Covenant, why make Jesus die on the cross and why call it "new" and not re-newed?

          When you took the mortgage out on your house, you entered a contract or a covenant with the bank. When all of your payments have been made, you no longer have to pay the bank, the obligation or covenant has been fulfilled.

          The new covenant means living under the Law of Liberty that is in Christ. If the Holy Spirit guides and leads, you are indeed living under the Law of Liberty.

          Does that help any at all?
          V
          But what confuses me sis is the fact that Hebrews says that God's Word is the same yesterday today and tommorrow. If that is the case doesnt that mean that any covenant that God makes (Mosaic, Abrahamic etc) is still in effect right?

          But after reading what you wrote does that mean that we dont have to follow what the Law states?
          "I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
          -- (Psalm 18:1-2)

          "Those who wait on the Lord will gain new strength; they will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk ant not be weary" -- (Isaiah 40:31)

          Comment


          • #6
            We are not 'under' the law, per se.
            It is important to understand that law does not save us, nor make us righteous.
            Our faith in Jesus Christ and His payment for our sins is what saves us, and makes us righteous.
            But now that we are saved, how are we to live?
            The law provides us guidlines to live our daily lives. At NO TIME are we to trust in our obedience to the law for SALVATION, or for RIGHTEOUSNESS.
            But, we ARE to live according to God's holy and eternal law, ie love our neighbor instead of killing him, etc.
            But the Holy Spirit writes that eternal law on our hearts. In other words, He gives us the DESIRE to be obedient to Him.
            Jesus did not come to destroy or to away with God's holy eternal law (this is not the oral traditions, nor even the old covenant of Moses that I am referring to).
            He came to fulfill it. How did He do that? We all have sinned. The punishment for sin is death. When we break God's eternal law, as we all have, the prescribed and just punishment for breaking that law is death, ie eternal separation from God. When that death is satisfied, and the punishment of the law is complete, then the law is 'fulfilled'.
            Jesus Christ paid that penalty for us, in our place, and by doing so, HE fulfilled the law in our behalf, so that WE don't have to.
            Now we each have a choice. We can either accept the payment HE made for us, or we can choose to pay the penalty ourselves. Either way, a death occurs and the law is satisfied, or fulfilled.

            Do not confuse the holy eternal law of God with the covenant of Moses. They are separate things. It is true that the Mosaic covenant included the eternal law of God, but the eternal law of God pre-existed the Mosaic covenant. It was from the very beginning. Each covenant, the Adamic, the Noahide, the Abrahamic, the Levitic, the Mosaic,the Davidic, AND the New Covenant, all contained the eternal law of God.
            Jesus said the law of God would never pass away. He said that heaven and earth would pass away but his law would remain forever.
            So how do we walk according to God's eternal law?
            We love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and turn away from all other 'gods'.
            We take his Name (CHRISTian) and walk in a manner that is not vain.
            We keep a day set apart to spend with Him and with our families, setting aside our daily rituals of work and TV. (What day you do that is according to your own conscience. The day God picked is a good day to do it.)
            We honor our parents and those in authority over us, because as we do so, we both learn and show respect for God Who is our ultimate authority.
            We love our neighbor instead of hating him.
            We give him Life (speak the gospel) instead of killing him.
            We honor our marriage and the marriage of others.
            We give to our neighbor instead of stealing from him.
            We speak truth to our neighbor instead of lying to him.
            We are satisfied with what God has provided us, instead of lusting and coveting what our neighbors have.
            And these things the Spirit writes on our heart when we accept Christ as our Savior. Little by little as we walk this kingdom walk, we find our hearts changed. We no longer want to do those things that once brought us (temporary) pleasure, and instead desire to do good things.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by livingwaters View Post
              In my opinion, Jesus fulfilled the law in the respect of forgiveness of sin by being our atonement for our sin debt. However, God made the laws(the ten commnandments) and they are to be kept, as God doesn't change, HE is always the same. Jesus said if we kept these two commandements, 1) Love thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul and strength, and 2) Love thy neighbor as thyself...they would cover the ten commandments that God gave to Moses. So, they are still in place. Alleluia~~~~The law could not abolish sin, only cover it. So, God sent Jesus to die for us, and through the shedding of HIS spotless blood, we can be saved and cleansed!! Thank YOU, Jesus...Thank YOU, Father God!!!

              So it means that as long as we love the Lord with all our minds body and souls and love our neighbors as we love ourselves that is all we have to do??? Because if we ACTUALLY do this then we will actually live a pleasing life to God?

              This part is SO confusing......
              "I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
              -- (Psalm 18:1-2)

              "Those who wait on the Lord will gain new strength; they will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk ant not be weary" -- (Isaiah 40:31)

              Comment


              • #8
                So is the laws just the 10 commandments?
                Are any of the Levitical laws included?

                Should we be Torah observant? As Torah observant as we can?

                This question has been very much on my mind since reading AJ Jacob's "A Year of Living Biblically".

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have come to see that He changes me inside in regards to the ten commandments. I don't worry about anything but following where He leads me.He shows me how I murder when I get mad at someone inside no matter if I am hiding my anger from them, how sneaky I can be by saying I am doing one thing when the motive of my heart is completely different from what I have professed, how when I get my feelings hurt by someone I am really being prideful because I felt they owed me some sort of respect or honor - things like that. He just concentrates with me on my inside which I tend to think is okay just because no one else can see it and He uncovers and shows me how I've hidden my true motives from even myself.

                  I know lots of christians worry about their outward appearance to others but I don't know why that is never my concern. I care most what HE thinks of me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JesusPhreak27 View Post
                    But what confuses me sis is the fact that Hebrews says that God's Word is the same yesterday today and tommorrow. If that is the case doesnt that mean that any covenant that God makes (Mosaic, Abrahamic etc) is still in effect right?

                    But after reading what you wrote does that mean that we dont have to follow what the Law states?
                    Look at the verse in Hebrews 8
                    8 - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

                    Is this the one you were thinking of?

                    Jesus remains the same - God remains the same. But I don't walk in the Garden of Eden. I don't follow a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. I do not sacrifice in a temple.

                    God changes the manner in which He deals with man.

                    Does that help?
                    V
                    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
                    - Mahatma Gandhi



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vhayes View Post
                      Look at the verse in Hebrews 8
                      8 - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

                      Is this the one you were thinking of?

                      Jesus remains the same - God remains the same. But I don't walk in the Garden of Eden. I don't follow a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. I do not sacrifice in a temple.

                      God changes the manner in which He deals with man.

                      Does that help?
                      V
                      Sure does Sis....

                      So what you guys are saying is that the Law allowed the Israelites receive forgiveness for their sins (God allowed them to sacrifice animals in their place), but since Jesus paid the ultimate price and became the sacrificial Lamb we no longer have to worry about any of that.

                      We just have to love God with all our minds hearts bodies and souls and love one another the same way we love ourselves and this will lead us?
                      "I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
                      -- (Psalm 18:1-2)

                      "Those who wait on the Lord will gain new strength; they will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk ant not be weary" -- (Isaiah 40:31)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JesusPhreak27 View Post
                        Hey everyone....

                        For the longest time I was under the belief that with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ that we were free from the Law.

                        But earlier today while preparing to start the Gospel of Matthew in my Life Application Bible (I have a 365 day bible reading program that I started Jan 1 -- it starts with Genesis then Matthew back to Exodus etc) and it showed this as the "key verse":

                        "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill them." (Matt 5:17)

                        Now as I said previously I always thought that we are no longer under the Law.

                        But the blurb for Matt. 5:17 states this:

                        "When Jesus talked about a new way to understand God's Law, he was actually trying to bring people back to its original purpose. Jesus did not speak against the Law itself, but against the abuses and excesses to which it had been subjected."
                        I know it takes guts to disagree with the people who wrote that blurb, but I will.

                        I think that your "original" position is, in fact, correct - we are indeed no longer under the Law (the Torah).

                        I do not like the statement "Jesus did not speak against the Law itself, but against the abuses and excesses to which it had been subjected." and I am frankly surprised to see it from a presumably authoritative source (the Life Application people).

                        It is true that Jesus critiqued man-made distortions to the Law. But that should not, in and of itself, drive us to conclude that Jesus could not have done away with the Law. So while I think this statement from your blurb is true, it is misleadingly incomplete - Jesus (and Paul) both, I claim, declare that the Torah is now retired.

                        When I say that the Law is retired, I am not saying it is now OK to covet, commit adultery, etc., etc. I am asserting that, with the gift of the Spirit, the essence of Torah - what it is all about at its core - has been "written on our hearts". So there is a sense in which the Torah continues to be in force, but not as a "list of do's and don'ts" - the Spirit gives us a capability people did not have before the time of Christ. So, in a sense, we do not need the "tutor" of Torah to tell us how to live. Of course, since the Torah is God's law, if anyone claims to have the Spirit and thinks they are free to violate the 10 commandments, I suggest they are on the wrong track.

                        The status of the Law is very, very tricky, I suggest. After all, at times Paul declares its abolition, at other times, he affirms it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          So is the laws just the 10 commandments?
                          Are any of the Levitical laws included?

                          Should we be Torah observant? As Torah observant as we can?
                          I think it is clear from Mark 7 that Jesus overturned the Levitical food laws:

                          In Mark 7, Jesus does indeed repudiate human add-ons to Torah. But Jesus clearly goes beyond this and overturns some of the Levitical food laws:

                          15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16["[b]If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] 17When he had left the crowd and entered (P)the house, (Q)His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

                          Jesus really cannot be misunderstood here - he clearly states that all foods are clean. This cannot be reconciled with the Levitical food laws which clearly state some foods are unclean.

                          So the fact that Jesus also repudiates man-made additions to Torah must not be seen as His only point here. It clearly is not - in addition to repudiating such add-ons, He also declares all foods clean. And that is at variance with Torah itself, not man's distortions of it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Romans 10:4
                            For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

                            HE IS the end of the law for righteousness to ALL who believe. Time to move on to the life of living in righteousness and not needing to fulfill the works of the law - for he's already fulfilled it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------

                              But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


                              Even the righteousness of God [which is] by'faith'of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:



                              That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------

                              Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

                              Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

                              This is the first and great commandment.

                              And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
                              thyself.

                              On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


                              Christ fullfilled the Law and In Him we have His Righteousness.. which is Righteousness by Faith.. believing on His Completed and Atoning Work on that Bloody Tree..
                              Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                              ------------------------------------------------
                              Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                              ------------------------------------------------
                              The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                              Jeremiah 31:3

                              Comment

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