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  • The flesh

    What is “the flesh” talked about in these verses?

    Do we “hear” it’s desires?

    I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. (Gal 5:16-17 NKJV)

    But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.(Rom 13:14 NKJV)

    among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph 2:3 NKJV)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Walstib View Post
    What is “the flesh” talked about in these verses?

    Do we “hear” it’s desires?

    I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. (Gal 5:16-17 NKJV)

    But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.(Rom 13:14 NKJV)

    among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph 2:3 NKJV)
    I believe that it is an attempt to keep "the Law." Galatians is a dicotomy of Grace and Works. At least that's the way I read it. I will have opposition I know. Walking in the flesh is opposed to walking in the Spirit. One creates fighting and such the other produces the Fruit of the Spirit. If you don't see Love, Peace, Joy........................... you can bank on it being flesh. I love the Sarah and Hagar verses. Sarah got pregnant because of a promise. Hagar because of a stipulation in the law. Sarah by grace, Hagar by flesh.

    Comment


    • #3
      The type of life and the method of living that life which he here speaks of, Paul had already commended to them in 5:5, in the words "For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness." Thus, the secret of victory over sin is found, not in attempted obedience to a law that has been abrogated, but in subjection to a divine Person, the Holy Spirit...........................

      Galatians in the Greek New Testament

      Kenneth S. Wuest

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not sure what are you asking. You use Galatians first, I use Epheisans first. Its still Paul.

        Walking worthy of the Lord is my desire and my struggle. What is my identity -- is it truly in Chirst? Where does the heat come from that makes thorns? It comes from my flesh. And now let's factor in the heart.

        My old self is dead and I have a new heart. I'm not a slave to sin anymore. I have never been under the Law and that being said:

        Rom. 7:15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

        16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

        Is this a sin nature thread?
        Heb 10:31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

        It is a wonderful thing to be predestined, elected and to believe by faith by virture of His irresitible grace and His limited atonement. Calvie, premill, dispie and full of cats. I love you too!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SeattleSun View Post
          I'm not sure what are you asking. You use Galatians first, I use Epheisans first. Its still Paul.
          The word flesh itself is used in different ways throughout the scriptures. The three verses I posted were to give a focus on what usage I want to explore with everyone. The order of the verses was random.

          The "hear" question was directed toward our thought life.

          Plus I was trying to draw Yukerboy in to discuss Yukerism point #8
          Originally posted by SeattleSun View Post
          Is this a sin nature thread?
          Definitely part of the topic, the topic being a big one, so different definitions of "sin nature" would just be a part of the discussion and not the focus.

          Have to go now, I'll get back later to address the rest of your post.

          Peace,
          Joe

          Comment


          • #6
            I have the feeling that the opening of Romans Chapter 8 will assist in understanding here.....

            Chapter 8
            1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit,
            2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.
            3 For what was impossible to the law, in which it was infirm through the flesh, did God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sin's flesh and concerning sin, He condemns sin in the flesh,
            4 that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.
            5 For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh, yet those who are in accord with spirit to that which is of the spirit.
            6 For the disposition of the flesh is death, yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace,
            7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.
            8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
            9 Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you. Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His.

            There was a Negro Pastor in the United States a couple of years back...Carlton Pearson.

            He was part of a very large ministry, with lots of parishioners, and lots of money, that back fired on him, and he lost virtualy everything, the ministry, freinds, money, he lost the lot, except his family.

            God had revealed to him to teach the Good News of the Gospel, the Universal Salvation and Reconcilliation of all mankind, through the attoning sacrafice of Jesus Christ at the Cross.

            Anyhow he ended up with nothing.....but while speaking to a group in California, he was invited to speak at a small Church in San Francisco.

            The Pastor was a Lesbian Female, and the congregation numbered about 50 people.

            Gay couples and singles, aids patients, and home less people.

            After speaking to the congregation, at the end of the service a chair was produced and the congregation invited Carlton to sit down.
            They took his shoes off and while some wept quietly and others sang softly they began to wash his feet as a group.

            Carlton relates that in that moment it was like the room began to spin around, and every person there suddenly turned into a Glorified and risen Christ!

            I can remember thinking to myself at the time.... OF Course ! Where else would we find our Lord !

            Looking at human History I have noticed that the Main Stream Church has been trying to correct the Flesh for Centuries....and failed miserably, because they are walking after the Flesh....

            5 For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh,

            Grace and Peace to you all....always!

            Comment


            • #7
              Ha! I'm not familiar of the doctine of Yukerism point #8. So its probably best that I watch from the sidelines until I have some sort of understanding.


              Heb 10:31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

              It is a wonderful thing to be predestined, elected and to believe by faith by virture of His irresitible grace and His limited atonement. Calvie, premill, dispie and full of cats. I love you too!

              Comment


              • #8
                There is only one word used in the Greek New Testament that is translated as "flesh" - that word is "sarx".

                It refers to the physical body, as opposed to what is spiritual.

                It's the same word used in verses such as Luke 3:6 "...and all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

                It's also used in John 3:6 when Jesus said; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

                After Adam sinned, God drove him from the Garden of Eden, and banned him from the tree of life.

                Genesis 3:22-24 "Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—" therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life."

                As a result, we also do not have access to the tree of life. When we are born, we are separated from God (spiritually).

                That why Jesus said; "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' " (John 3:7)

                Since we are born physically, not spiritually, we do not have the advantage of the Holy Spirit to direct our hearts and minds. We naturally do what the body desires.

                Those desires aren't inherently sinful, though; just natural. (similar to animals?)

                So when we begin to be aware of right and wrong, we are already accustomed to choosing whatever pleases the body (flesh).

                If we get a sense that maybe giving into a particular desire is inappropriate in a certain instance, it's foreign to us.

                That's why James can say:

                James 1:14-15 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

                Once we've made a choice contrary to our conscience, we've sinned.

                Romans 2:14-15 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

                Once we've sinned, we are guilty, and condemned by our conscience, becoming slaves to sin.

                Romans 6:15 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

                Romans 6:19 For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
                You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

                Charles G Finney



                http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by holyrokker View Post
                  There is only one word used in the Greek New Testament that is translated as "flesh" - that word is "sarx".

                  It refers to the physical body, as opposed to what is spiritual.

                  It's the same word used in verses such as Luke 3:6 "...and all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

                  It's also used in John 3:6 when Jesus said; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

                  After Adam sinned, God drove him from the Garden of Eden, and banned him from the tree of life.

                  After God caused Adam to Sin, he removed Adam from the Garden, because man still has a million things to experience first...before becoming like God!

                  Genesis 3:22-24 "Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—" therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life."

                  As a result, we also do not have access to the tree of life. When we are born, we are separated from God (spiritually).

                  That why Jesus said; "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' " (John 3:7)

                  Since we are born physically, not spiritually, we do not have the advantage of the Holy Spirit to direct our hearts and minds. We naturally do what the body desires.

                  Those desires aren't inherently sinful, though; just natural. (similar to animals?)

                  So when we begin to be aware of right and wrong, we are already accustomed to choosing whatever pleases the body (flesh).

                  If we get a sense that maybe giving into a particular desire is inappropriate in a certain instance, it's foreign to us.

                  That's why James can say:

                  James 1:14-15 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

                  Once we've made a choice contrary to our conscience, we've sinned.

                  Since when has clay had right over the clay ?

                  Romans 2:14-15 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

                  Once we've sinned, we are guilty, and condemned by our conscience, becoming slaves to sin.

                  1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.


                  Romans 6:15 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

                  1...Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit,

                  Romans 6:19 For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
                  5 For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh, yet those who are in accord with spirit to that which is of the spirit.


                  May I ask what has led you to believe that being disposed towards the flesh...or what the Flesh does...gives you right standing with God ?

                  Peace

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spirit Driven View Post
                    5 For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh, yet those who are in accord with spirit to that which is of the spirit.


                    May I ask what has led you to believe that being disposed towards the flesh...or what the Flesh does...gives you right standing with God ?

                    Peace
                    Either faith or righteousness. All men fail in righteousness, except Jesus. Natural man in natural flesh was created to live by faith in God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Greetings Sirus,

                      Be assured that I am not here to convince anybody of anything....God is the Great Convincer of men....all Glory goes to him.

                      As you are probably aware, we are to be in this world but not of it, and when observing the World I have noticed a definite trend.

                      However you must first understand, that I am nobodys Judge...lest I be Judged, yet I have noticed a...way... of this World.

                      The way of the World today is....actualy those first seven words should start spiritual alarm bells ringing in the heart of the elect, so I will repeat them.

                      The Way of the World today seems to be that a heterosexual, will base their right standing with God on their Sexuality or what their flesh does, then Judge sombody of different sexuality at the same time.

                      A double wammy !

                      I think it is a very alarming trend indeed.

                      Grace and Peace to you

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SeattleSun View Post
                        Ha! I'm not familiar of the doctine of Yukerism point #8. So its probably best that I watch from the sidelines until I have some sort of understanding.


                        8. The born again have sin living within their flesh that sins.

                        We have sin abiding in our flesh, but no sin abides in our spirit. We are our spirit. The flesh is dead, profiting nothing.

                        Therefore, Paul does not sin when he states, it is no longer he that does it, but the sin living within him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What is “the flesh” talked about in these verses?

                          Do we “hear” it’s desires?
                          Good question, Walstib.

                          I see God's power in all of Scripture at work in a dualistic sense, i.e., that there are simultaneous literal and spiritual meanings underlying it. If I recall correctly, Paul, Jesus and Peter are the three who used the contradistinction of "spirit" and "flesh" in their teachings in the NT. Someone asked if this is a "sin-nature thread", and I don't see how, if one is truly interested in a detailed study of Scripture and its meaning, this could be avoided.

                          One popular position held is very literal, that the two refer only to literal flesh and literal spirit. This position sounds good on the surface, but quickly falls apart when studied in more depth. Hume pointed out (and his observation stands to this day) that prescriptive value has no attachment to matter. In other words, acts in the physical world are just complex organizations and motions of atoms and molecules, meaningless from a value standpoint except where they are preceded and directed by minds dictating their activities. To say that the spirit is free from sin and that all sin now resides in matter or flesh simply dissolves under close scrutiny because the motions of matter (in matters of sin) is subsequent to consciousness. Jesus confirms this in Mat 5:28: but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart., where sin is concieved in the consciousness quite apart from the physical act.


                          The verses you used testify to this. Since matter is not capable of embodying sin--again, because "sin" (transgression of the moral law) is a peculiarly consciousness-driven circumstance--the "lust of the flesh" cannot apply to literal flesh; lust is a certain quality inherent to human consciousness. Who ever heard of an arm or leg lusting? Hence, the NT teachers had to have in mind a contradistinction or comparison of certain terms they used to other realities. We "hear" physically by sound waves acting on atoms and we "hear" with the intellect, and the intellect is imho of necessity always in view where spirit and flesh are compared in the Bible unless context demands only its literal use.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Personally I think we are all still flesh along with all that is associated with it UNLESS you happen to know someone who is already in their incorruptable, changed new body to match their born again spirit.
                            I have a Blog. Please visit!

                            My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                            Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Walstib View Post
                              What is “the flesh” talked about in these verses?

                              Do we “hear” it’s desires?

                              I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. (Gal 5:16-17 NKJV)

                              But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.(Rom 13:14 NKJV)

                              among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph 2:3 NKJV)
                              We're really walking in a dead perishing body right now. Our flesh is in a constant decaying state..and we are in a dead or perishable form even before our transformation and emergence into God's new kingdom..despite whether or not we act on the flesh's desires or not. Anyone who tells you that they are in a completely perfected state before having been transformed and perfected by God is a liar, and there is no truth within them. Even Christ was made perfect by God, as the Apostle Paul states in Hebrews 2:10.

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