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Is Evil According to God's Plan??

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  • Is Evil According to God's Plan??

    All the evil in the world, is it right according to God's plan???

    I once thought it wasnt till a friend looked me in the face and said: "Did you think all the world's evil is a bug in Gods windows program"??
    Then I thought about it and dawned on me its all right according to his master plan. Nothing happens by accident, it all has a purpose.

    And IMO satan was created for this exact purpose, to deceive and cause havoc around the world. If that werent true God would just kill him being the almighty and all powerful God that He is.

    Opinions??

  • #2
    Originally posted by Fresco View Post
    All the evil in the world, is it right according to God's plan???

    I once thought it wasnt till a friend looked me in the face and said: "Did you think all the world's evil is a bug in Gods windows program"??
    Then I thought about it and dawned on me its all right according to his master plan. Nothing happens by accident, it all has a purpose.

    And IMO satan was created for this exact purpose, to deceive and cause havoc around the world. If that werent true God would just kill him being the almighty and all powerful God that He is.

    Opinions??
    I think you're kind of on the right track,..... but here's what I can offer as an explanation.

    God KNEW / KNOWS what will happen. Even before the angels were created, before the Heavens & the Earth were created.

    But I don't think that means he "MADE things happen" in a particular way.
    We have free will, just as the angels do.

    Satan (Lucifer) CHOSE to rebel, but wasn't created to do so. (If that were the case, it wouldn't really be Satan's fault that he rebelled.) He made a willful choice... just as Adam & Eve did in the garden.

    But.... God KNEW exactly what would happen beforehand.
    He also knew what it would take to bring salvation to his people. And because he wanted to have that relationship with us,... a GENUINE ralationship based on our own choice, he was willing to send a substitue sacrifice for our sins, through Jesus' crucifixion.

    If there was no TRUE CHOICE, then nothing would have any real meaning or value.

    So, I agree that there was a "plan" in action..... but it wasn't necessarily that God CREATED Satan as "evil". However; because of real free will, he allowed the POTENTIAL for evil.

    (Make sense?)
    Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    _______________________________________________
    There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Fresco View Post
      All the evil in the world, is it right according to God's plan???

      I once thought it wasnt till a friend looked me in the face and said: "Did you think all the world's evil is a bug in Gods windows program"??
      Then I thought about it and dawned on me its all right according to his master plan. Nothing happens by accident, it all has a purpose.

      And IMO satan was created for this exact purpose, to deceive and cause havoc around the world. If that werent true God would just kill him being the almighty and all powerful God that He is.

      Opinions??
      Greetings Fresco,

      I agree! It has always been part of God's plan to use sin and evil to accomplish His purposes. Sin and evil cannot exist unless God allows them to. In fact we find some evidence in Scripture where God Himself takes credit for creating evil (Isa 45:7).

      Many Blessings,
      RW

      Comment


      • #4
        In my opinion, everybody who says God only knew what would happen if He created satan and man is trying to get God 'off the hook' for something where there is no need for God to get off the hook. I struggled with this question some time ago and there is only one solution, that is, God ordained for evil to exist. And this comforts me a great deal.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
          In my opinion, everybody who says God only knew what would happen if He created satan and man is trying to get God 'off the hook' for something where there is no need for God to get off the hook. I struggled with this question some time ago and there is only one solution, that is, God ordained for evil to exist. And this comforts me a great deal.

          I think I understand what you're saying..... but I don't think I have to "let God off the hook".

          His knowing what would happen, did not change the fact that he still allowed it to, based on our free will.
          Creating the potential for evil, and knowing that it WOULD enter into his creation, isn't an "excuse" or an attempt to "help God out with some kind of "whipped up explanation".
          (He doesn't need my "help" there...... LOL!)

          Again, I agree that there was a plan.
          I disagree that his plan was to BRING evil into existence.... I think his "plan" was the conquering of sin & evil.

          Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
          _______________________________________________
          There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by markdrums View Post
            Again, I agree that there was a plan.
            I disagree that his plan was to BRING evil into existence.... I think his "plan" was the conquering of sin & evil.

            But before you can conquer sin & evil, it first has to exist.
            And for it to exist it has to be created

            Also how will we know how to do good, if we dont first know what evil is??

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fresco View Post

              But before you can conquer of sin & evil, it first has to exist.
              And for it to exist it has to be created

              Also how will we know how to do good, if we dont first know what evil is??
              Hi Fresco,

              Excellent questions! It's also interesting to read "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made" (Gen 3:1). Why would God make the serpent more "subtil" (cunning, crafty, prudent) then the rest of the beasts of the field, and then allow him to come into His "very good" creation where no sin or evil yet exists? Would God have not known that being more subtil than any creature, he would be able to easily deceive the woman?

              Many Blessings,
              RW

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Fresco View Post

                But before you can conquer of sin & evil, it first has to exist.
                And for it to exist it has to be created

                Also how will we know how to do good, if we dont first know what evil is??

                To say God "Created" imperfection is kind of going against God's nature.
                His CREATION, having a willfull choice, brought evil into existence.

                In order to have TRUE choice & Free Will, you have to have the opportunity to go either way. Otherwise, it's not really a choice; it's more of being programmed like a robot, with no distinct personality. This would make true love an impossibility as well.

                Sin was definitely NOT "created" by God. But God DID allow for sin & evil to exist because of our genuine choice.

                That's why CHOOSING salvation based on our personal acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins is "a choice".

                If God "created" evil by choice, and forced ALL OF US (Mandkind / Adam & Eve / you & I / etc...) into the curse of sin & death right from the start, then his SALVATION should be for everyone as well; Without having to ask for it, & without having to believe upon the Lord as our substitute sacrifice.

                Right?

                Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                _______________________________________________
                There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                  To say God "Created" imperfection is kind of going against God's nature.
                  His CREATION, having a willfull choice, brought evil into existence.

                  In order to have TRUE choice & Free Will, you have to have the opportunity to go either way. Otherwise, it's not really a choice; it's more of being programmed like a robot, with no distinct personality. This would make true love an impossibility as well.

                  Sin was definitely NOT "created" by God. But God DID allow for sin & evil to exist because of our genuine choice.

                  That's why CHOOSING salvation based on our personal acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins is "a choice".

                  If God "created" evil by choice, and forced ALL OF US (Mandkind / Adam & Eve / you & I / etc...) into the curse of sin & death right from the start, then his SALVATION should be for everyone as well; Without having to ask for it, & without having to believe upon the Lord as our substitute sacrifice.

                  Right?

                  I dont think there's as much choice in choosing between good and evil as you claim. The Bible says sin is passed down 3 or 4 generations. So if my mother is a heroin addicted prostitute, then there's a very good chance I might not turn out so well either in society. I might have the best intentions, but I'll be a slave to character traits that were passed down from my mother.

                  Also Job had no choice in his suffering, he was considered the most upstanding person of his generation, yet he still had to go through some severe suffering. Even though he didnt really do anything to deserve it

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fresco View Post
                    I dont think there's as much choice in choosing between good and evil as you claim. The Bible says sin is passed down 3 or 4 generations. So if my mother is a heroin addicted prostitute, then there's a very good chance I might not turn out so well either in society. I might have the best intentions, but I'll be a slave to character traits that were passed down from my mother.

                    Also Job had no choice in his suffering, he was considered the most upstanding person of his generation, yet he still had to go through some severe suffering. Even though he didnt really do anything to deserve it
                    I think you're mixing topics & contexts here.....
                    BUT.... back to the original topic of "Creating Sin / Evil"; let me pose the questions/ comments this way:

                    Why would a PERFECT God create imperfection? In fact, weren't the angels, (as well as Adam & Eve) cerated WITH perfection?

                    It was because of the choices by free will of God's creations, that evil & sin entered into existence; not because God created them as evil or imperfect.

                    When scripture tells us that God "created ALL things".... we need to give that a little thought.
                    Evil exists, no doubt about it.... it exists because God created the angels & people who had a real choice.

                    Drug abuse exists... but I would put the blame on mankind's choices for it's existence.
                    Sexual immorality exists.... again, because of mankind's choice.
                    Greed exists..... etc......

                    God did not create the evil itself..... Evil & sin are IMPERFECT, complete opposite of God.

                    God cannot change, cannot err, and cannot go against his true nature. And for God to create imperfection, would be to do just that.
                    Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                    _______________________________________________
                    There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                      In order to have TRUE choice & Free Will, you have to have the opportunity to go either way. Otherwise, it's not really a choice; it's more of being programmed like a robot, with no distinct personality. This would make true love an impossibility as well.
                      I don't agree with this at all. What about Heaven? Will there be opportunity for rebellion in Heaven? If there isn't, then according to this kind of thinking we will never really love God in Heaven.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                        Drug abuse exists... but I would put the blame on mankind's choices for it's existence.
                        Sexual immorality exists.... again, because of mankind's choice.
                        Greed exists..... etc......
                        Thats true, but Job's suffering was not by choice, and he certainly didnt deserve to suffer since he was a pillar of the community. That leads me to believe that God planned for evil to happen, regardless if we deserve it or not

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BrckBrln View Post
                          I don't agree with this at all. What about Heaven? Will there be opportunity for rebellion in Heaven? If there isn't, then according to this kind of thinking we will never really love God in Heaven.

                          So, we don't "choose" our eternity? We're programmed, or dragged into Heaven?

                          To think God created sin, & forced us into the curse, would mean we're also forced into salvation.... which would mean there's no real love.

                          Giving US the choice makes it REAL.

                          Our choices NOW are actualized in eternity.
                          If we choose to have a relationship with our creator, and choose salvation by the grace of our substitute sacrificial Lamb, then we're saying we WANT TO BE perfect... like Christ.

                          We WANT TO spend an eternity free from sin. Just like Christ..... by our own personal choices.

                          If we choose to reject him, we're saying, "That's our eternal wish".

                          I don't see how eliminating the chance for sin, rebellion, and evil in the "New Heaven / New Earth," means there's no choice & no real love.

                          Heaven is exactly what we as believers are beleiving in & hoping for. That PERFECT eternal existence.... away from sin once & for all..... for all eternity.

                          We'll be COMPLETELY perfect, holy, and righteous... just like our creator / savior.... because WE choose.

                          God created perfection, not evil. And God will RESTORE perfection, & permanently eliminate evil.
                          Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                          _______________________________________________
                          There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fresco View Post
                            Thats true, but Job's suffering was not by choice, and he certainly didnt deserve to suffer since he was a pillar of the community. That leads me to believe that God planned for evil to happen, regardless if we deserve it or not

                            No, Job DIDN'T choose to suffer... you're right.
                            But GOD didn't create or plan Job's suffering either..... he ALLOWED it.

                            God KNEW Job's faith. He KNEW suffering wouldn't change a thing in Job's beliefs.

                            I still disagree with the "creation" of evil.
                            God CREATED perfection, & had a PLAN for salvation.
                            Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                            _______________________________________________
                            There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                              So, we don't "choose" our eternity? We're programmed, or dragged into Heaven?

                              To think God created sin, & forced us into the curse, would mean we're also forced into salvation.... which would mean there's no real love.

                              Giving US the choice makes it REAL.

                              Our choices NOW are actualized in eternity.
                              If we choose to have a relationship with our creator, and choose salvation by the grace of our substitute sacrificial Lamb, then we're saying we WANT TO BE perfect... like Christ.

                              We WANT TO spend an eternity free from sin. Just like Christ..... by our own personal choices.

                              If we choose to reject him, we're saying, "That's our eternal wish".

                              I don't see how eliminating the chance for sin, rebellion, and evil in the "New Heaven / New Earth," means there's no choice & no real love.

                              Heaven is exactly what we as believers are beleiving in & hoping for. That PERFECT eternal existence.... away from sin once & for all..... for all eternity.

                              We'll be COMPLETELY perfect, holy, and righteous... just like our creator / savior.... because WE choose.

                              God created perfection, not evil. And God will RESTORE perfection, & permanently eliminate evil.
                              That doesn't really answer the question. Even if we 'choose' now what we want for eternity why wouldn't we be able to change our mind in eternity? If you say that in order to love God there must be the opportunity to choose evil or rebel then you must apply that to Heaven or else, it seems to me, you are being inconsistent.

                              The reasoning that says in order for our choices to be real we must have complete free will is absurd. That's like saying in order for our lives to have meaning then God must not be independent for if God is independent and all knowing then what is the purpose? The reason our lives have meaning is because God says they do and the reason our choices have meaning is because God says they do.
                              sigpic

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