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  • Godly love

    As much value I think the thread on Godly fear had, I wanted to turn to another attribute we have in relationship with our Creator, Love.

    We all have our own cultural identification or ideas about love. We are exposed to something called love constantly. Seemingly endless songs, movies and books have been produced on love's behalf. consider the movie 'Love Story' which proclaims "Love means never having to say you're sorry.' Or the sick euphamisms that equate love with all kinds of sexual deviancy. But how does God define love? That is what I would like to explore here.

    Think about some things we love..."I love chocolate", I love my dog, job, etc...

    So I want to start where I always start when studing the Bible - in the Hebrew, where every letter has meaning and every name has a purpose. The Hebrew word for love is 'ahav', spelled "alef-hay-bet." "Ahav" can be used to express all the sorts of love, from nobel to profane, and like in English, can be applied as 'Godly Love".

    The first usage of "ahav" is in Genesis 22:2

    (Gen 22:2) He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love (ahav), Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

    Genesis 22:2 implies what Abraham loved. How did Abraham 'prove' his love?

    (Gen 22:11) But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
    (Gen 22:12) He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."

    The hebrew pictograph of "ahav" is interesting, because if we start with the hebrew word 'av' (father) and add the letter 'hay' in the middle, the word 'ahav' is formed (remembering the alef-bet has only consonants). The adding of the letter 'hay' which points the the Spirt if God, or the heart of the matter, demonstrates that love is the focus of the Father. The heart of the father is Love.

    The first usage of 'ahav' in the context of loving God is found in Exodus 20:5-6:

    (Exo 20:5) You are not to bow down to them or serve them; for I, Adonai your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sins of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
    (Exo 20:6) but displaying grace to the thousandth generation of those who love (ahav) me and obey my mitzvot.

    In reading Exodus 20:5-6, what does God link to loving Him?

    Deuteronomy 11:1 has some things that are linked with the command to love God:

    (Deu 11:1) "Therefore, you are to love Adonai your God and always obey his commission, regulations, rulings and mitzvot.

    Now, go on to Proverbs and Hebrews and note the connection between reproof and love:

    (Pro 3:12) for Adonai corrects those he loves like a father who delights in his son.

    (Heb 12:6) FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

    So, what are some things God loves?

    (Psa 11:7) For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face.

    (Psa 33:5) He loves righteousness and justice; The earth is full of the lovingkindness of the LORD.

    (Psa 37:28) For the LORD loves justice And does not forsake His godly ones; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.

    (Psa 87:2) The LORD loves the gates of Zion More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.

    The Greek word used in the Septuagint for Love comes from the word 'agapao'. This is the same word used for love in John 3:16

    (Joh 3:16) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Think about the relationship between John 3:16 and Genesis 2:22.

    Many have said that 'agapao' is 'God's unconditional love for man." Is this supported in the Greek Apostolic Scriptures (NT)? For example, in Matthew 22:37 Yeshua quotes Deuteronomy 6:5. "Agapao" is used, but it is used as a command for us to love God, not the other way around. Read the following passages which use derivatives of the Greek word agapao. Note if there is a relationship between love and commands or obedience:

    (Luk 7:41) "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
    (Luk 7:42) "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?"
    (Luk 7:43) Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."

    (Joh 10:17)"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

    (Joh 14:21) "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

    (Joh 15:12) "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

    (1Jn 4:21) And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

    Reading the verses below, what does God say we are to love?

    (Deu 6:5) "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

    (Psa 119:47) I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.

    (Psa 119:97)מ(Mem) How I love your Torah! I meditate on it all day.

    (Psa 119:159) See how I love your precepts, Adonai; in keeping with your grace, revive me.

    (Mat 5:44) But I tell you, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!

    (Mat 22:37) He told him, " 'You are to love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
    (Mat 22:38) This is the greatest and most important mitzvah.
    (Mat 22:39) And a second is similar to it, 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.'

    (Joh 13:34) "I am giving you a new command: that you keep on loving each other. In the same way that I have loved you, you are also to keep on loving each other.

    (Joh 14:23) Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
    (Joh 14:24) Someone who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words — and the word you are hearing is not my own but that of the Father who sent me.

    1 John 2:15 tells us about something we are not to love.

    In 1 John 4:16, we are told that God is love. This verse is used sometimes to water down the fact that God is Holy and expects His people to obey Him. It is even used by some to draw a line between "the God of the Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament".

    God has not changed. In fact some have also used Matthew 22:27-39 (pasted above) to create an idea that Yeshua instituted a 'new Law', the "Law of Love" which supersedes and replaces God's holy commandments to His people. No. Instead what Yeshua does is point to the fact that there is a connection between God's commandments and loving Him. The "Law of Love" has always been the summation of God's commands. If we do not want to obey Him, then we do not love Him. To God the greatest commandment is love, as we read in Deut 6:5. The second greatest command is to "love your neighbor as yourself." This is a quote from Leviticus 19:18. Love is the summation of all that God has commanded, right out of Torah passages. Love motivates our desire to obey Him. Love validates we are His children.

    Now, if we love God, what will we do?



    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  • #2
    I'm getting ready to "leave" for the day, but I wanted to say, true love is not permissive love - that's nothing but sloppy agape. True love teaches, cherishes and always wants what is best for the beloved, even if it "hurts" a bit in the learning or gaining.

    A parent who truly loves their child will not allow them to play with matches even though the child is certain his happiness lies with that book of matches. True love takes the matches away and patiently explains that the red and yellow blocks are far more fun and then shows WHY they are more fun.

    Thanks, Keck, for starting a "love" thread.
    V
    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
    - Mahatma Gandhi



    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for responding Vhayes.

      'sloppy agape' - haha- I love it!
      Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Keck. I "love" that passage about Abraham. It was his "only son" whom he loved too. And it was also the first mention of the word worship along with love.

        Ever wonder why God loved Zion above all the dwelling places of Jacob? Zion was the area in Israel that was most fortified by the enemy. It was that area that even the lame and blind could defend it from the righteous.

        There are areas in our life that the enemy had so overrun, his confidence in holding it was very high. This area, when taken from him and given to the Lord, is an area that he loves to dwell in. That place where we once served Satan is God's most favorite dwelling place in our hearts.

        Also, I like the scripture that says God loved the rich young ruler. Even though the rich young ruler rejected Jesus, Jesus loved him.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
          Hi Keck. I "love" that passage about Abraham. It was his "only son" whom he loved too. And it was also the first mention of the word worship along with love.

          Ever wonder why God loved Zion above all the dwelling places of Jacob? Zion was the area in Israel that was most fortified by the enemy. It was that area that even the lame and blind could defend it from the righteous.

          There are areas in our life that the enemy had so overrun, his confidence in holding it was very high. This area, when taken from him and given to the Lord, is an area that he loves to dwell in. That place where we once served Satan is God's most favorite dwelling place in our hearts.

          Also, I like the scripture that says God loved the rich young ruler. Even though the rich young ruler rejected Jesus, Jesus loved him.
          Yes, Jesus did love him. It seems the rich guy was being selective in his obedience to God, but he wasn't able to totally surrender to the she'ma (first commandment). I think Jesus was very sad, maybe with the sadness He had when Adam disobeyed Him and He had to fashion clothes to cover him. I wonder how many people consider the tremendous heartbreak of God over a lost sheep and cry with Him. Yeshua was sobbing over Jerusalem after He rebuked the Torah teachers and Pharisees at the Temple. God has these emotions just as He gave them to us.

          That makes it a little easier to understand why even the angels rejoice when a lost sheep is found. Imagine seeing the King of the Universe with a big 'ol smile.
          Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by keck553 View Post
            Yes, Jesus did love him. It seems the rich guy was being selective in his obedience to God, but he wasn't able to totally surrender to the she'ma (first commandment). I think Jesus was very sad, maybe with the sadness He had when Adam disobeyed Him and He had to fashion clothes to cover him. I wonder how many people consider the tremendous heartbreak of God over a lost sheep and cry with Him. Yeshua was sobbing over Jerusalem after He rebuked the Torah teachers and Pharisees at the Temple. God has these emotions just as He gave them to us.

            That makes it a little easier to understand why even the angels rejoice when a lost sheep is found. Imagine seeing the King of the Universe with a big 'ol smile.
            Excellent! God does have emotions. We often think of him as a Spirit but he says he also has a soul. I love that passage about him weeping over those whom he had just preached "woes" to. It shows his heart!

            One reason I love that story about the rich young ruler... nothing that kid did changed Jesus love for him. Sometimes we think what we do will make him love us more or less but such is not the case.
            Matt 9:13
            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
            NASU

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
              One reason I love that story about the rich young ruler... nothing that kid did changed Jesus love for him. Sometimes we think what we do will make him love us more or less but such is not the case.
              Been there, done that. Doesn't work as we think. Perhaps that's why we are so suprised when what we get is not what we expected.

              Jesus is the embodiment of that. He's not what they expected.....I know I have kicked aside some awesome blessings in the same ignorance..
              Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                Been there, done that. Doesn't work as we think. Perhaps that's why we are so suprised when what we get is not what we expected.

                Jesus is the embodiment of that. He's not what they expected.....I know I have kicked aside some awesome blessings in the same ignorance..
                Yea me too. God's been working with me on that sense I got saved. I got down a few weeks back and asked God to search my heart and see if there was any wicked way in me. I was going to make a list of all my sins and repent of them. I started writing them down and the Lord spoke and asked me "Did I tell you to write that one down?" No, he did not. Then he went on to speak to me about 2 sins he was concerned about at that moment in my heart. The first one was thinking I could perform for him in such a way as to earn his love. It seems that is one I will continue to work on even though I imagined differently. Thankfully, he does not leave us in that state. It was one of the first things he taught me however, it was something I needed to learn again.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  4God is patient, God is kind. God does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. 5God is not rude, He is not self-seeking, iHe is not easily angered, He keeps no record of wrongs. 6God does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7God always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8God never fails.

                  This is Godly Love

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    Yea me too. God's been working with me on that sense I got saved. I got down a few weeks back and asked God to search my heart and see if there was any wicked way in me. I was going to make a list of all my sins and repent of them. I started writing them down and the Lord spoke and asked me "Did I tell you to write that one down?" No, he did not. Then he went on to speak to me about 2 sins he was concerned about at that moment in my heart. The first one was thinking I could perform for him in such a way as to earn his love. It seems that is one I will continue to work on even though I imagined differently. Thankfully, he does not leave us in that state. It was one of the first things he taught me however, it was something I needed to learn again.
                    (Mat 6:33) But seek first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

                    Once I tried to attend to specific sins, one by one. I failed. Like Peter, I sank and flailed about in the current. Funny though how those sins seem to fall away when you put all your focus on Messiah.

                    There's a fine line between obeying Him and performing for Him. God wants that line in our hearts. That's the issue I think with our varying views on obeying God. If something is not in our heart, it's of no value to anyone.
                    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                      (Mat 6:33) But seek first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
                      I was reading that verse today.


                      Once I tried to attend to specific sins, one by one. I failed. Like Peter, I sank and flailed about in the current. Funny though how those sins seem to fall away when you put all your focus on Messiah.

                      There's a fine line between obeying Him and performing for Him. God wants that line in our hearts. That's the issue I think with our varying views on obeying God. If something is not in our heart, it's of no value to anyone.
                      Amen.
                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have an awesome weekend Mark. Thanks for listening.
                        Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                          As much value I think the thread on Godly fear had, I wanted to turn to another attribute we have in relationship with our Creator, Love.

                          We all have our own cultural identification or ideas about love. We are exposed to something called love constantly. Seemingly endless songs, movies and books have been produced on love's behalf. consider the movie 'Love Story' which proclaims "Love means never having to say you're sorry.' Or the sick euphamisms that equate love with all kinds of sexual deviancy. But how does God define love? That is what I would like to explore here.

                          Think about some things we love..."I love chocolate", I love my dog, job, etc...

                          So I want to start where I always start when studing the Bible - in the Hebrew, where every letter has meaning and every name has a purpose. The Hebrew word for love is 'ahav', spelled "alef-hay-bet." "Ahav" can be used to express all the sorts of love, from nobel to profane, and like in English, can be applied as 'Godly Love".

                          The first usage of "ahav" is in Genesis 22:2

                          (Gen 22:2) He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love (ahav), Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

                          Genesis 22:2 implies what Abraham loved. How did Abraham 'prove' his love?

                          (Gen 22:11) But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
                          (Gen 22:12) He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."

                          The hebrew pictograph of "ahav" is interesting, because if we start with the hebrew word 'av' (father) and add the letter 'hay' in the middle, the word 'ahav' is formed (remembering the alef-bet has only consonants). The adding of the letter 'hay' which points the the Spirt if God, or the heart of the matter, demonstrates that love is the focus of the Father. The heart of the father is Love.

                          The first usage of 'ahav' in the context of loving God is found in Exodus 20:5-6:

                          (Exo 20:5) You are not to bow down to them or serve them; for I, Adonai your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sins of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
                          (Exo 20:6) but displaying grace to the thousandth generation of those who love (ahav) me and obey my mitzvot.

                          In reading Exodus 20:5-6, what does God link to loving Him?

                          Deuteronomy 11:1 has some things that are linked with the command to love God:

                          (Deu 11:1) "Therefore, you are to love Adonai your God and always obey his commission, regulations, rulings and mitzvot.

                          Now, go on to Proverbs and Hebrews and note the connection between reproof and love:

                          (Pro 3:12) for Adonai corrects those he loves like a father who delights in his son.

                          (Heb 12:6) FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

                          So, what are some things God loves?

                          (Psa 11:7) For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face.

                          (Psa 33:5) He loves righteousness and justice; The earth is full of the lovingkindness of the LORD.

                          (Psa 37:28) For the LORD loves justice And does not forsake His godly ones; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.

                          (Psa 87:2) The LORD loves the gates of Zion More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.

                          The Greek word used in the Septuagint for Love comes from the word 'agapao'. This is the same word used for love in John 3:16

                          (Joh 3:16) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

                          Think about the relationship between John 3:16 and Genesis 2:22.

                          Many have said that 'agapao' is 'God's unconditional love for man." Is this supported in the Greek Apostolic Scriptures (NT)? For example, in Matthew 22:37 Yeshua quotes Deuteronomy 6:5. "Agapao" is used, but it is used as a command for us to love God, not the other way around. Read the following passages which use derivatives of the Greek word agapao. Note if there is a relationship between love and commands or obedience:

                          (Luk 7:41) "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
                          (Luk 7:42) "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?"
                          (Luk 7:43) Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."

                          (Joh 10:17)"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

                          (Joh 14:21) "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

                          (Joh 15:12) "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

                          (1Jn 4:21) And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

                          Reading the verses below, what does God say we are to love?

                          (Deu 6:5) "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

                          (Psa 119:47) I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.

                          (Psa 119:97)מ(Mem) How I love your Torah! I meditate on it all day.

                          (Psa 119:159) See how I love your precepts, Adonai; in keeping with your grace, revive me.

                          (Mat 5:44) But I tell you, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!

                          (Mat 22:37) He told him, " 'You are to love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
                          (Mat 22:38) This is the greatest and most important mitzvah.
                          (Mat 22:39) And a second is similar to it, 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.'

                          (Joh 13:34) "I am giving you a new command: that you keep on loving each other. In the same way that I have loved you, you are also to keep on loving each other.

                          (Joh 14:23) Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
                          (Joh 14:24) Someone who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words and the word you are hearing is not my own but that of the Father who sent me.

                          1 John 2:15 tells us about something we are not to love.

                          In 1 John 4:16, we are told that God is love. This verse is used sometimes to water down the fact that God is Holy and expects His people to obey Him. It is even used by some to draw a line between "the God of the Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament".

                          God has not changed. In fact some have also used Matthew 22:27-39 (pasted above) to create an idea that Yeshua instituted a 'new Law', the "Law of Love" which supersedes and replaces God's holy commandments to His people. No. Instead what Yeshua does is point to the fact that there is a connection between God's commandments and loving Him. The "Law of Love" has always been the summation of God's commands. If we do not want to obey Him, then we do not love Him. To God the greatest commandment is love, as we read in Deut 6:5. The second greatest command is to "love your neighbor as yourself." This is a quote from Leviticus 19:18. Love is the summation of all that God has commanded, right out of Torah passages. Love motivates our desire to obey Him. Love validates we are His children.

                          Now, if we love God, what will we do?




                          Remember what Jesus stated to his disciples..

                          Luke 6:27-36

                          Love for Enemies

                          But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
                          "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

                          God's Love is demonstrative to all of his creations. We need to do our best to mimic this type of love in our walks, particularly to those whom we deem beneath us in regards to knowledge and understanding of the word.

                          God bless you much,

                          Stephen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just wanted to add that despite greek usage and versions of love listed above, nowhere in the bible does it specifically mention that God's love is perfected through fearing him. It does mention that in our earthly walk, we are to fear him though. Our obedience to him should not stem from fear of disobedience to his commands, but instead from loving his commands and having faith in them being righteous. David was stated to have been a man after God's own heart..and God's heart is not a heart of fear..it is a heart of mercy and love. We are to mimmic this type of love and pray that God gives us a heart like his in our walks.

                            Grace and peace to all,

                            Stephen

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                              Just wanted to add that despite greek usage and versions of love listed above, nowhere in the bible does it specifically mention that God's love is perfected through fearing him. It does mention that in our earthly walk, we are to fear him though. Our obedience to him should not stem from fear of disobedience to his commands, but instead from loving his commands and having faith in them being righteous. David was stated to have been a man after God's own heart..and God's heart is not a heart of fear..it is a heart of mercy and love. We are to mimmic this type of love and pray that God gives us a heart like his in our walks.

                              Grace and peace to all,

                              Stephen
                              Are we back on that? One can't fear God properly until one has had improper fear casts from his heart through love. In that, I think we agree. Fear is not the motivator love is. Yet, it has it's place here on earth. David taught about good and proper fear in scripture and about bad and improper fear. He spoke of both in Psalms.

                              Anyway, let us love God with all our being and fear Him. Both are proper but love is the greatest.
                              Matt 9:13
                              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                              NASU

                              Comment

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