Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Experience vs. Argument

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Experience vs. Argument

    The President of the Bible College I attended once said the following:

    The man with an experience is never at the mercy of the man with an argument.

    What do you think? I added a poll here and purposefully made it black and white - either experience or argument. I'm interested particularly in what you think when it comes to the Bible.
    19
    True - An Experience trumps an Argument
    57.89%
    11
    False - An Argument trumps an Experience
    42.11%
    8
    Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

    Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

  • #2
    Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
    The President of the Bible College I attended once said the following:

    The man with an experience is never at the mercy of the man with an argument.

    What do you think? I added a poll here and purposefully made it black and white - either experience or argument. I'm interested particularly in what you think when it comes to the Bible.
    I'll take argument over experience everytime.

    Argument between those who study right or wrong (Calvin-Arminian, Pre-mid-post, old earth-young earth, evolution-creation) is Scripture based. Experience, even one that seems good, could be quite contrary to what Scripture states.

    Ex.

    "I've experienced it. I've seen Him do wondrous signs, great miracles even. I had cancer and he healed me. I know some say He's the antichrist, but so many have been helped by Him that He has to be the Savior." - Said by one who believes he has been saved during the great tribulation.

    "If you were elect, you would not be deceived. Looks like that mark had to hurt." - Said by one of the tribulation saints.

    Comment


    • #3
      So what if you experience something that you know to be from God but cannot explain or back up at that point in time, and somebody else comes along and begins to tear down your experience with arguments, even though you know your experience to be true (and there might be somebody out there to back up your experience with arguments, it's just that you at that point cannot)?
      Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

      Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Your subjective experience is subject to your feeling, thoughts, analysis, all of which may be 100% wrong.

        God's word is objective truth.

        We do not know anything to be true, even our experience, unless it is supported, or at least not mitigated against, by the Word.

        Experience is a terrible witness to truth.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
          Your subjective experience is subject to your feeling, thoughts, analysis, all of which may be 100% wrong.

          God's word is objective truth.

          We do not know anything to be true, even our experience, unless it is supported, or at least not mitigated against, by the Word.

          Experience is a terrible witness to truth.
          An argument can be equally flawed, however, by a person's bias due to a myriad of reasons. What's more, an argument is per definition biased because it comes from a person that is per definition biased. An experience, however, does not have that same problem. Of course experience needs to be supported. But just because somebody cannot support it at that point in time, doesn't mean their experience is trumped by another man's argument.
          Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

          Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            You misunderstand.

            Man's argument is a non-starter in the issue.

            The issue is not "what does another man say", but rather, "What has God already said."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
              You misunderstand.

              Man's argument is a non-starter in the issue.

              The issue is not "what does another man say", but rather, "What has God already said."
              With all due respect, my friend, you misunderstand my intention in starting the thread. I never said experience vs. what God has said but experience vs. argument - in other words, one person's experience vs. another person's argument. When one person comes with an experience, does the argument of another man trump his experience?
              Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

              Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Scripture judges man's doctrines; not man's doctrines standing in judgment of scripture... The interpreter doesn't set the meaning, divine inspiration through the writer does... So experience can give a false positive contrary to a scriptural truth.
                "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                ... there are few who find it."


                -----------------------------------------------

                * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                The New American Standard Bible®,
                Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
                  Scripture judges man's doctrines; not man's doctrines standing in judgment of scripture... The interpreter doesn't set the meaning, divine inspiration through the writer does... So experience can give a false positive contrary to a scriptural truth.
                  On the other hand, an argument can come from an erroneous preposition and a bias that leads the person to a certain conclusion.
                  Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

                  Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Then your initial argument is flawed.

                    The truth of your experience has nothing to do with what any man thinks, but it has everything to do with what God says.

                    Who cares what man says?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yukerboy View Post
                      I'll take argument over experience everytime.

                      Argument between those who study right or wrong (Calvin-Arminian, Pre-mid-post, old earth-young earth, evolution-creation) is Scripture based. Experience, even one that seems good, could be quite contrary to what Scripture states.
                      Good thing Paul took his experience over an argument! Else he would have rejected Christ.

                      Good thing Peter took his experience over argument, else he would have never went to see Cornelius.

                      Truth is what saves, not our imagined doctrine. God will use experience to change our false doctrine if we will let him.
                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                        Your subjective experience is subject to your feeling, thoughts, analysis, all of which may be 100% wrong.
                        The same thing can be said of ones subjective interpretation of scripture. The pharisees knew scripture inside and out and their argument sent them to hell. They rejected both the word of Christ and the experience of Christ.
                        Matt 9:13
                        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                        NASU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                          On the other hand, an argument can come from an erroneous preposition and a bias that leads the person to a certain conclusion.
                          Point understood... but unlike a resume, experience is not the measuring factor to a doctrinal truth...

                          IE 'you say it is this, I say it is that - and the reason I say it is that is because this is what happened', doesn't become the given that it must be a doctrinal truth. Tested against scripture will validate the experience as being a spiritual truth or a false positive....
                          "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                          Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                          ... there are few who find it."


                          -----------------------------------------------

                          * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                          The New American Standard Bible®,
                          Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                          1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                          Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                          Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In a practical situation, it might matter a lot. A person might be newly saved with the experience of salvation and a newfound joy but unable to explain most of what has happened to him. An atheist comes along and explains it all away. Should the new believer doubt simply because the atheist has a better handle on the argument?

                            Of course you care what man says, because any one person could be the bearer of truth. You just need to compare what man says to what God says. It's very easy to say that it only matter what God says, but what does that really mean in reality? People have so many varying opinions and ideas about things!
                            Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

                            Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              apples and pears

                              experience vs argument. i've given it some thought and i can't escape the feeling that this is comparing apples and pears (dutch expression). why would one choose one over the other when both can be inspired by the Lord, ourselves or others?

                              i can't choose. je m'excuse.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X