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When did the Jews go off the path?

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  • When did the Jews go off the path?

    586 BC? (the destruction of the First Temple)
    516 BC? (building of the Second Temple)
    500-300 BC? (Great Assembly)
    4 BC? (Birth of Jesus, give or take a few years)
    30 AD? (Sermon on the mount)
    33 AD? (Crucifixion of Jesus)
    68 AD? (Destruction of the Second Temple)

    Some other date not mentioned?
    Jews have always been wrong?
    Jews have never been wrong?

  • #2
    Shalom Fenris,

    I'm am at a loss to understand your question.
    The Jews went off WHAT path?

    What are you trying to ask us?
    ~~In Messiah,
    Vickilynn
    Micah 6:8

    sigpic


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Fenris View Post
      586 BC? (the destruction of the First Temple)
      516 BC? (building of the Second Temple)
      500-300 BC? (Great Assembly)
      4 BC? (Birth of Jesus, give or take a few years)
      30 AD? (Sermon on the mount)
      33 AD? (Crucifixion of Jesus)
      68 AD? (Destruction of the Second Temple)

      Some other date not mentioned?
      Jews have always been wrong?
      Jews have never been wrong?

      I believe it would be more associated with the death of Christ but it really is ongoing in rejection of Him as the Messiah. The good news is that NT scripture states any Jew that ends their disbelief and accepts Jesus as the Messiah shall be re-attached to the Vine. This is always something a Christian prays for.
      1Peter 3:15
      (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay....from a Biblical perspective, Jesus pointed out in several places that the Jewish leaders/teachers had strayed from what God had intended. Part of Jesus ministry was to call back the hearts of His people to God. To answer your question...from just before the birth of Christ until now...whenever they have rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah of God...
        God happens!
        'I Can Only Imagine'

        Bless the Beasts and the Children:
        http://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

        On cautionary note:
        Originally posted by ProjectPeter
        When they say something... it is about anyone's guess what it is they really mean... but NEVER ask for clarification of their mysterious language... they are often very happy to give it and that's when the discussion goes FREAKY!

        Comment


        • #5
          Very few Jews were ever ON the path. Neither is any other person. The whole point is to show humans that they CAN'T stay on that path alone. We must have a Savior. Out of curiousity, why do you ask?
          Psalm 118:8 - "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

          Comment


          • #6
            So all the times that Adonai admonished them in the Tanakh for going astray doesn't count? And who are we to judge them anyway? Don't we have enough on our plate, just trying to stay on the path ourselves?

            This whole topic is leading us down the wrong path. How many times have I strayed the path, let me count the ways. That is what relationship is about. Judging ourselves, not others.
            Shalom


            sigpicWhile scripture is inspired, the understanding of its true meanings are most often just the opposite. Contextual understanding of scripture has fallen victim to ignorance and apathy. It has been corrupted by a desperate adherence to the traditions of man and the agendas of the reprobate mind.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by talmidim View Post
              So all the times that Adonai admonished them in the Tanakh for going astray doesn't count? And who are we to judge them anyway? Don't we have enough on our plate, just trying to stay on the path ourselves?

              This whole topic is leading us down the wrong path. How many times have I strayed the path, let me count the ways. That is what relationship is about. Judging ourselves, not others.

              I am not condemning, just stating a reality that is repeated in the New Testament.

              Now, if the question talks of personal 'straying' then it might still echo the same answer........
              God happens!
              'I Can Only Imagine'

              Bless the Beasts and the Children:
              http://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

              On cautionary note:
              Originally posted by ProjectPeter
              When they say something... it is about anyone's guess what it is they really mean... but NEVER ask for clarification of their mysterious language... they are often very happy to give it and that's when the discussion goes FREAKY!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by slightlypuzzled View Post
                I am not condemning, just stating a reality that is repeated in the New Testament.

                Now, if the question talks of personal 'straying' then it might still echo the same answer........
                Didn't say that you were, Brother. I am just saying that this whole topic is wrong. The history of the whole world is filled with examples of where they went wrong. And the Tanakh is filled with examples of where the children of Israel departed from Elohim. What does that have to do with anything? My point is that none of this matters. All that matters is what I personally do to stay on His path.

                I wonder why this question was asked in the first place. And if it is allowed, why is this thread here and not Bible Chat? The whole thing seems wrong. Am I the only one to see that?
                Shalom


                sigpicWhile scripture is inspired, the understanding of its true meanings are most often just the opposite. Contextual understanding of scripture has fallen victim to ignorance and apathy. It has been corrupted by a desperate adherence to the traditions of man and the agendas of the reprobate mind.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by talmidim View Post
                  Didn't say that you were, Brother. I am just saying that this whole topic is wrong. The history of the whole world is filled with examples of where they went wrong. And the Tanakh is filled with examples of where the children of Israel departed from Elohim. What does that have to do with anything? My point is that none of this matters. All that matters is what I personally do to stay on His path.

                  I wonder why this question was asked in the first place. And if it is allowed, why is this thread here and not Bible Chat? The whole thing seems wrong. Am I the only one to see that?

                  That would be one to ask the OP to clarify.....
                  God happens!
                  'I Can Only Imagine'

                  Bless the Beasts and the Children:
                  http://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

                  On cautionary note:
                  Originally posted by ProjectPeter
                  When they say something... it is about anyone's guess what it is they really mean... but NEVER ask for clarification of their mysterious language... they are often very happy to give it and that's when the discussion goes FREAKY!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by talmidim View Post
                    Didn't say that you were, Brother. I am just saying that this whole topic is wrong. The history of the whole world is filled with examples of where they went wrong. And the Tanakh is filled with examples of where the children of Israel departed from Elohim. What does that have to do with anything? My point is that none of this matters. All that matters is what I personally do to stay on His path.

                    I wonder why this question was asked in the first place. And if it is allowed, why is this thread here and not Bible Chat? The whole thing seems wrong. Am I the only one to see that?
                    There is nothing wrong with the discussion of why and how the Jews erred and what we as Christians can learn from it. It is a very appropriate topic for this forum because in our roots there are many good things to emulate and many bad things to avoid.
                    1Peter 3:15
                    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by talmidim View Post
                      The history of the whole world is filled with examples of where they went wrong. And the Tanakh is filled with examples of where the children of Israel departed from Elohim. What does that have to do with anything? My point is that none of this matters.
                      If none of it matters, then why has God allowed history and the Tanakh to be filled with such examples? It seems overly suspicious to call this thread 'wrong.' Seems to me it was just a question about the apostasy of many people who were part of our Jewish roots.

                      To answer Fenris' question, it seems to me that Israel wavered many times b/w obedience and disobedience, but that by the time of Jesus' ministry they're rebellion had reached the tipping point, as Jesus pointed out in Matthew 23:32
                      The Matthew Never Knew
                      The Knew Kingdom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
                        If none of it matters, then why has God allowed history and the Tanakh to be filled with such examples?
                        Shalom Brother Mathew,

                        Criticizing the Jews is a red herring. I had hoped that you would know that is what I meant. So, in the context of my remarks, why would you have deleted my next statement from your quote?

                        "
                        All that matters is what I personally do to stay on His path."

                        The, "Why has God allowed" premise is as old as unbelief. You really don't know why those lessons are there? For me to examine and
                        to compare myself against. As a standard by which to measure my own walk. As an object lesson, not as a weapon to use against others.

                        Isn't our walk supposed to be about relationship with Adonai and each other? Aren't we supposed to judge ourselves and not each other? Well if so, where is the love in this? Certainly not in the way this OP is phrased. It smell like bait to me.

                        Getting a bunch of Christians to argue amongst themselves over how best to criticize the Jews is something an anti-missionary might do. And our response to the OP is so predictable.


                        I wonder, how many of my brothers in Messiah actually felt the hook go through their upper lip? I wonder, how many of our Jewish brethren watching from the wings are shaking their heads? Well at least we don't disappoint. Our reaction to this OP is what so many Jews have come to expect from Christians. Is this witnessing for the love of Yeshua? I don't think so...

                        This subscription will be deleted from my user control panel.

                        Good night all.


                        Shalom


                        sigpicWhile scripture is inspired, the understanding of its true meanings are most often just the opposite. Contextual understanding of scripture has fallen victim to ignorance and apathy. It has been corrupted by a desperate adherence to the traditions of man and the agendas of the reprobate mind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by talmidim View Post
                          So all the times that Adonai admonished them in the Tanakh for going astray doesn't count?
                          No, because we are discussing something different here.

                          When the prophets admonished the Jews they were supposed to return to the Law as laid out in the Torah. When Jesus enters the picture there is a different expectation as to what the Jews are supposed to do; namely,to love God and to love each other. All other ritual law goes out the window. This is very interesting, because Jews were not expecting this to happen, ever. They were under the impression that God's covenant with them was permanent and their obligation to follow the Law as laid out in the Torah was permanent. Christians will say that Jesus's coming had been foretold in the Tanach and Jews should have realized that Jesus was the fulfillment of messianic prophecies. And yet most Jews in Jesus's time did not see him in that light. So obviously, from a Christian perspective, at some point in time the common Jewish understanding of God, the Law, and the messiah had changed from what God intended. Yes?

                          So I guess my question should be amended to ask: At what point did Judaism evolve to the point at where acceptance of Jesus becomes impossible according to the common understanding?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by talmidim View Post

                            Getting a bunch of Christians to argue amongst themselves over how best to criticize the Jews is something an anti-missionary might do. And our response to the OP is so predictable.

                            I don't think you understand the point of my original post. See the post I made above this one for further clarification.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fenris
                              So I guess my question should be amended to ask: At what point did Judaism evolve to the point at where acceptance of Jesus becomes impossible according to the common understanding?
                              I don't know if it ever became impossible, however; from just before Christ, it might have become difficult.

                              I am curious if you think it ever became impossible. As a former Atheist, I never saw much difference between Jews and Christians until I really read the New Testament, and understood the radical change in the Apostle Paul's life and thinking...
                              God happens!
                              'I Can Only Imagine'

                              Bless the Beasts and the Children:
                              http://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

                              On cautionary note:
                              Originally posted by ProjectPeter
                              When they say something... it is about anyone's guess what it is they really mean... but NEVER ask for clarification of their mysterious language... they are often very happy to give it and that's when the discussion goes FREAKY!

                              Comment

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