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  • True Love Hates?

    God is love.
    This part I understood a bit, but more recently I have come to grips with the fact that true love (God) hates.

    I have heard the saying "Love the sinner and hate the sin" but I can find no such thing in scripture but I do find much to the contrary.

    Is it just me or am I missing something?

  • #2
    Originally posted by bagofseed View Post
    God is love.
    This part I understood a bit, but more recently I have come to grips with the fact that true love (God) hates.

    I have heard the saying "Love the sinner and hate the sin" but I can find no such thing in scripture but I do find much to the contrary.

    Is it just me or am I missing something?

    How have you come to this conclusion?
    sigpic

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    • #3
      The Bible is full of scriptures that talk of God's Hate.

      Psa 139:21
      O Lord, do I not hate those who hate you, and despise those who oppose you?

      Pro 8:13
      The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; I hate arrogant pride and the evil way and perverse utterances.

      Pro 13:5 The righteous person hates anything false,

      Pro 6:16 There are six things that the Lord hates, even seven things that are an abomination to him:

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bagofseed View Post
        God is love.
        This part I understood a bit, but more recently I have come to grips with the fact that true love (God) hates.

        I have heard the saying "Love the sinner and hate the sin" but I can find no such thing in scripture but I do find much to the contrary.

        Is it just me or am I missing something?
        In chapter two of Revelation (letter to Ephesus) Jesus says he "hates" the teachings of the Nicolations. Note, he doesn't say he hates the Nicolations but their teachings, which were obviously sinful.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bagofseed View Post
          God is love.
          This part I understood a bit, but more recently I have come to grips with the fact that true love (God) hates.

          I have heard the saying "Love the sinner and hate the sin" but I can find no such thing in scripture but I do find much to the contrary.

          Is it just me or am I missing something?
          Try John 3:16. If God does not love the sinner, how can He love you?

          Rom 3:16
          For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

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          • #6
            God created Man for fellowship and worship. God loves Man so much, he created him with the the option to love him. Man chose sin. God hates sin, because sin denies God fellowship with Man, whom he loves, for eternity.
            (until Jesus that is, now there's a love story)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bagofseed View Post
              God is love.
              This part I understood a bit, but more recently I have come to grips with the fact that true love (God) hates.

              I have heard the saying "Love the sinner and hate the sin" but I can find no such thing in scripture but I do find much to the contrary.

              Is it just me or am I missing something?

              Thank you for asking this question. Some replies suggest that it is possible to separate someone from what they do. I don't think it is possible to say that and still say "You will know them by their fruits". Which is it? In heaven, on the judgment day, will it be the sins of the unredeemed that will be thrown into hell, or the sinner? God will judge the sinner according to what they have done. It's a package deal.

              The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference, it is "I don't care". A father who loves his child punishes her if he cares for her. Hopefully he isn't just going for a change in behavior, but heart and understanding as well. Hate can be redemptive. It is unavoidable to love without hate.

              The Antichrist will be taught and raised by the christian church. He will come from your own, not from the "outsiders". "Thus saith the Eternal, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house. . . ."

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              • #8
                Here's my take on it. When they were about to stone the adulteress, I didn't hear anyone say she was innocent, but our Lord showed her grace and love and (unless I'm mistaken), not a lick of hatred. He met her where she was, healed her situation, and told her to go and sin no more.

                Had Jesus hated Zacchius, the notorious tax collector, would he have dined at his house?

                If any was worthy of hatred of our Lord, would it not be Peter? The beloved disciple who denied him three times? Yet even in the face of treason the Lord showed Peter love. And again, if I'm not mistaken, not a lick of hatred.

                Jesus met people where they were. He was empathetic to them, but always firm when it came to sin. I dare say the only time Jesus demonstrated any hatred was towards those who thought themselves holy beyond all other men.

                I understand the sentiment though. Hate whomever you like, but I implore you, I beg you... hate me first and foremost. My 10 year pornography addiction plumbed every depravity and ended when I cheated on my then soon to be wife. Nobody has trampled on grace nor relished their sin nor shirked the commandment of God more than I WHILE telling the world I was a good Christian. So if you need someone to hate, hate me with all the fury and malice that you can muster.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                  If any was worthy of hatred of our Lord, would it not be Peter? The beloved disciple who denied him three times? Yet even in the face of treason the Lord showed Peter love. And again, if I'm not mistaken, not a lick of hatred.
                  "Get behind me, SATAN!" Sounds like hate to me. Try saying that to a parishioner.

                  Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                  Jesus met people where they were. He was empathetic to them, but always firm when it came to sin. I dare say the only time Jesus demonstrated any hatred was towards those who thought themselves holy beyond all other men.
                  Than you agree that hatred is redemptive. ?

                  The Antichrist will be taught and raised by the christian church. He will come from your own, not from the "outsiders". "Thus saith the Eternal, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house. . . ."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scubadude View Post
                    "Get behind me, SATAN!" Sounds like hate to me. Try saying that to a parishioner.
                    This doesn't sound like hatred to me.

                    Originally posted by Scubadude View Post
                    Than you agree that hatred is redemptive. ?
                    No.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                      This doesn't sound like hatred to me.
                      ok.





                      Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                      No.
                      I thought you said Jesus showed hatred toward the self righteous. ?

                      The Antichrist will be taught and raised by the christian church. He will come from your own, not from the "outsiders". "Thus saith the Eternal, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house. . . ."

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                      • #12
                        Rom 9:13 just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

                        God hates, and hates people its clear and simple.

                        But what I am learning is that God Hates because he Loves.
                        Think about it, if you love someone who is doing self destructive things don't you hate them for it because you love them?

                        I don't believe you will ever find where God stopped loving Esau

                        Knowing that God hates, and gets angry with us for our sins and still loves us just the same has changed me.

                        Growing up in the church I had felt that my sins being all forgiven meant God was good with me even if I had sin in my life as long as I kept asking for forgiveness.

                        But that is not the case, and now their is hope for me, hope for real change.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bagofseed View Post
                          Rom 9:13 just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

                          God hates, and hates people its clear and simple.

                          But what I am learning is that God Hates because he Loves.
                          Think about it, if you love someone who is doing self destructive things don't you hate them for it because you love them?

                          I don't believe you will ever find where God stopped loving Esau

                          Knowing that God hates, and gets angry with us for our sins and still loves us just the same has changed me.

                          Growing up in the church I had felt that my sins being all forgiven meant God was good with me even if I had sin in my life as long as I kept asking for forgiveness.

                          But that is not the case, and now their is hope for me, hope for real change.
                          I think the hating comes in in terms of actions one takes, I don't think hate is what motivates God to do things. For example the verse you gave regarding Esau, we learn that Esau was hated because of the actions he took against Jacob after losing his birthright...which we learn wasn't very much to begin with. He essentially made his purpose to set after and destroy his brother until the ends of the earth, showing no mercy over something of very little value.

                          All of this being stated, hate is usually brought on by fear, we generally hate what we don't understand. This is a theme that is demonstrated throughout biblical times, as well as today. Thus I wouldn't say that true love consists of hates, since there is no fear in it. What I would say that true love doesn't delight in evil, but uses evil for the purpose of bringing about it's ultimate good plan.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Scubadude View Post
                            I thought you said Jesus showed hatred toward the self righteous. ?
                            My mistake... I meant to say "anything close to hatred"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Just_Another_Guy View Post
                              I think the hating comes in in terms of actions one takes, I don't think hate is what motivates God to do things. For example the verse you gave regarding Esau, we learn that Esau was hated because of the actions he took against Jacob after losing his birthright...which we learn wasn't very much to begin with. He essentially made his purpose to set after and destroy his brother until the ends of the earth, showing no mercy over something of very little value.

                              All of this being stated, hate is usually brought on by fear, we generally hate what we don't understand. This is a theme that is demonstrated throughout biblical times, as well as today. Thus I wouldn't say that true love consists of hates, since there is no fear in it. What I would say that true love doesn't delight in evil, but uses evil for the purpose of bringing about it's ultimate good plan.
                              This is just an observation, but it seems the more aggressive emotions like hatred (and it's close cousin anger) are shunned in modern Christianity. For some reason, they have been treated as unwelcome and unhealthy for the person and the church community. Very understandable to an extent. Making decisions out of anger or hatred can lead to some very awful conclusions (physical abuse, murder, voting for Obama). There are some very good reasons to control our feelings of hatred and anger. But.........

                              Avoiding an emotion and trying to suppress it is like trying to learn how to become a skilled carpenter without using the necessary tools, hoping real hard you won't need to use them. You have to gain a lot of experience using them before you can be called 'master carpenter'. And (I think this is where the fear you are talking about comes in), along the path to gaining that skill (wisdom, maturity), some bad cuts will be made. Maybe even a finger will get cut off.

                              If a pastor were to say to his congregation that he hated some of the parishioners in the church because they were evil (like God does), the response would at least involve outrage and fear from many attending. Suddenly, the pastor they thought was a nice, friendly guy is a bit scary and unpredictable.

                              I think this is largely the reason why many men prefer to stay home and watch football instead of gong to church. Something good in a man, like the ability to get angry and hate evil is stifled. If God made a man to reflect Him in some way, I would say it is to reflect His righteousness. "Something is very wrong here, and I will move with conviction to correct this injustice!" If you've ever spent time with a cop, you know what I'm talking about. Sometimes, you need to hurt someone in order to give them a chance to change.

                              btw: Bagofseed, went to your profile, but couldn't leave a message.

                              The Antichrist will be taught and raised by the christian church. He will come from your own, not from the "outsiders". "Thus saith the Eternal, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house. . . ."

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