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  • Non-instrumental churches

    Let me preface this thread with a love-filled introduction. I have a deep respect for my brothers and sisters in the Church of Christ (non-instrumental). We have way more in common doctrinally than we do in contrast. I am a member of the Indepedent Christian church. I am not raising this question to attack anyone, but merely to open a dialogue of understanding in regards to beliefs.

    I've often thought it to be a shame that it seems to me that the major difference keeping the Independent Christian church and the Church of Christ divided is the issue of instruments in worship. I understand the Church of Christ reasoning that they will not do anything that they cannot find authority given for in the scripture.

    However, I also think of the example of David, a man after God's own heart, who wrote music, played instruments, and even danced before the Lord in worship. If we can agree that all scripture is God-breathed and given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, help me understand how instrumentation in worship is forbidden in light of Psalm 150 which reads:

    Psalm 150, "Praise the LORD.
    Praise God in his sanctuary;
    praise him in his mighty heavens.

    2 Praise him for his acts of power;
    praise him for his surpassing greatness.
    3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
    praise him with the harp and lyre,
    4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
    praise him with the strings and flute,
    5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
    praise him with resounding cymbals. 6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
    Praise the LORD."

    I know this is an Old Testament passage and the Church of Christ looks for authority in the New Testament. However, the line of reasoning that says, "if the Bible doesn't mention it happening in the New Testament then we won't do it either" eliminates a lot of things.

    I believe that the use of instruments in worship was established in the Old Testament by men of God and, although Jesus didn't specifically say that we should use instruments in worship, it is never stated that it was inappropriate.

    Again, please do not take this as an attack. I simply want to gain an increased understanding of Church of Christ beliefs.

  • #2
    Not knowing anything of either church you mention I cannot comment on them, but regarding instruments in worship - they can be sensitively used and are then an aid to worship, however I have been in churches where the impression is more of a concert than worship . . . and the worst ones have an enthusiastic drummer bashing away !!! .

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know much about the churches you mentioned, but I think the problem with all churches is that in modern society many different people prefer many different types of music. I can't get into worshiping the Lord if I hate the style of the music I'm supposed to be worshipping along with. The problem is, if a church played the music I liked, others may not like it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Christians need to form their view of music and instruments from Scripture, i.e. Christians need to form a systematic theology about music - a musicology.

        There are 380 verses in the Bible that speak to the issue of music - 340 in the Old Testament, 40 in the New Testament. None of them forbid any instrument or style of music. I'm sure the musicians of the Old Testament played with lots of enthusiasm.

        I used to be part of a Christian heavy metal band. Nothing in the Bible forbids that. In fact, we just played a reunion last night for a high school youth group.

        Everybody has styles they prefer. That's fine. What Christians must not do is force their preferences (or their anti-preferences) on others. I think its a good thing to check out styles we don't like and talk to those who do like them and thank God for musicians that can reach people that our music cannot.

        In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

        Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

        If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TrustGzus View Post
          Christians need to form their view of music and instruments from Scripture, i.e. Christians need to form a systematic theology about music - a musicology.

          There are 380 verses in the Bible that speak to the issue of music - 340 in the Old Testament, 40 in the New Testament. None of them forbid any instrument or style of music. I'm sure the musicians of the Old Testament played with lots of enthusiasm.

          I used to be part of a Christian heavy metal band. Nothing in the Bible forbids that. In fact, we just played a reunion last night for a high school youth group.

          Everybody has styles they prefer. That's fine. What Christians must not do is force their preferences (or their anti-preferences) on others. I think its a good thing to check out styles we don't like and talk to those who do like them and thank God for musicians that can reach people that our music cannot.
          I agree- I also think the Holy Spirit will lead people to differrent styles of music to worship to- just like cars, some of us might prefer red and others blue.

          Personally I think music is one issue the devil loves to use to divide Christians and laughs at us, as we bicker over it.

          Tit.1
          1. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
          God Bless

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TrustGzus View Post
            Christians need to form their view of music and instruments from Scripture, i.e. Christians need to form a systematic theology about music - a musicology.

            There are 380 verses in the Bible that speak to the issue of music - 340 in the Old Testament, 40 in the New Testament. None of them forbid any instrument or style of music. I'm sure the musicians of the Old Testament played with lots of enthusiasm.

            I used to be part of a Christian heavy metal band. Nothing in the Bible forbids that. In fact, we just played a reunion last night for a high school youth group.

            Everybody has styles they prefer. That's fine. What Christians must not do is force their preferences (or their anti-preferences) on others. I think its a good thing to check out styles we don't like and talk to those who do like them and thank God for musicians that can reach people that our music cannot.
            AMEN!!! Very good points.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hburgpreacher View Post
              Let me preface this thread with a love-filled introduction. I have a deep respect for my brothers and sisters in the Church of Christ (non-instrumental). We have way more in common doctrinally than we do in contrast. I am a member of the Indepedent Christian church. I am not raising this question to attack anyone, but merely to open a dialogue of understanding in regards to beliefs.

              I've often thought it to be a shame that it seems to me that the major difference keeping the Independent Christian church and the Church of Christ divided is the issue of instruments in worship. I understand the Church of Christ reasoning that they will not do anything that they cannot find authority given for in the scripture.

              However, I also think of the example of David, a man after God's own heart, who wrote music, played instruments, and even danced before the Lord in worship. If we can agree that all scripture is God-breathed and given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, help me understand how instrumentation in worship is forbidden in light of Psalm 150 which reads:

              Psalm 150, "Praise the LORD.
              Praise God in his sanctuary;
              praise him in his mighty heavens.

              2 Praise him for his acts of power;
              praise him for his surpassing greatness.
              3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
              praise him with the harp and lyre,
              4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
              praise him with the strings and flute,
              5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
              praise him with resounding cymbals. 6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
              Praise the LORD."

              I know this is an Old Testament passage and the Church of Christ looks for authority in the New Testament. However, the line of reasoning that says, "if the Bible doesn't mention it happening in the New Testament then we won't do it either" eliminates a lot of things.

              I believe that the use of instruments in worship was established in the Old Testament by men of God and, although Jesus didn't specifically say that we should use instruments in worship, it is never stated that it was inappropriate.

              Again, please do not take this as an attack. I simply want to gain an increased understanding of Church of Christ beliefs.
              The same reasoning that you use to defend the necessity of baptism is the same reasoning you would use to understand why the churches of Christ do not use instrumental music.

              We understand the thief was saved without baptism because he lived under a different covenant.

              Likewise, we understand that what David did cannot be an example for us because he lived under a different covenant. David was also bound by the Law of Moses.

              If we did everything David did, what else would we be missing?

              God bless, brother.


              [CENTER][SIZE=2]A FEW MINUTES WITH SOMEONE WHO LOVES YOU

              Comment


              • #8
                Just a note that it's not just the OT, the NT also recommends the use of instruments - look up PSALLW in a concordance "sing and make melody"

                Though music can get out of hand "I will sing with my emotion, but I will also sing with my brain" (which is what Paul in 1Co14 is actually saying to the Corinthians).

                God bless
                Steven

                Comment


                • #9
                  actually, I don't see any reason not to use instraments if you want to-or to worship only with your voice if you would like. All ways and always praise HIM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I see nothing wrong with using instruments in church. I think it adds something to the worship service.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skc53 View Post
                      I see nothing wrong with using instruments in church. I think it adds something to the worship service.
                      I agree that it adds something.

                      What do you think it adds?


                      [CENTER][SIZE=2]A FEW MINUTES WITH SOMEONE WHO LOVES YOU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Matt14 View Post
                        The same reasoning that you use to defend the necessity of baptism is the same reasoning you would use to understand why the churches of Christ do not use instrumental music.

                        We understand the thief was saved without baptism because he lived under a different covenant.

                        Likewise, we understand that what David did cannot be an example for us because he lived under a different covenant. David was also bound by the Law of Moses.

                        If we did everything David did, what else would we be missing?

                        God bless, brother.
                        Wow, that is totally a wrong exogesis of the Bible. The Psalm clearly states PRAISE HIM WITH.... you may think it is Davidic but in reality it is a Psalm that encourages us to express ourselves towards God. Do you, by virtue of your salvation experience, now throw out the OT?
                        Amazzin

                        Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                        CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey "Hburpreacher", I too pastor an independent Christian Church - the "middle of the road" in the Restoration Movement Churches. I love it.

                          While I understand, and can appreciate, where the non-instrumentalists come from, I simply don't agree.

                          With all due respect, I think they're study of the Word sometimes includes a lot of foregone conclusions. Ephesians 5:19, for instance, is often used as "proof" that God forbids the use of musical instruments in Worship. But the word used there - psalmos - is actually defined as a song accompanied by a stringed instrument.

                          There are a LOT of things we all do, that are not expressly commanded in Scripture - particularly the New Testament. There is no New Testament mandate for Sunday Morning Worship Services, Pulpits, Pews, or even the use of Bibles. Where do we draw the line?


                          On the other hand, I believe they make some very good points about instrumental music that is "distracting". The playing of instruments, in my opinion, must always be done for the glory of God. They should assist us in singing, not drown us out (this includes pipe organs), and should always be an accompaniment, not a show.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matt14 View Post
                            The same reasoning that you use to defend the necessity of baptism is the same reasoning you would use to understand why the churches of Christ do not use instrumental music.

                            We understand the thief was saved without baptism because he lived under a different covenant.

                            Likewise, we understand that what David did cannot be an example for us because he lived under a different covenant. David was also bound by the Law of Moses.

                            If we did everything David did, what else would we be missing?

                            God bless, brother.
                            I've pondered the "separation from the Law" argument quite a bit. It's very legitimate, because we all wrestle with what parts of the Law carry over, and what parts do not. I certainly don't have any fail-safe answers.

                            But one thing I've realized is this: God allowed and accepted worship that was accompanied by instruments under the Old Covenant. We read of the use of instruments, in worship, in heaven in the book of Revelation. This leads me to wonder why God would forbid the use of instruments, in worship, just during the Christian dispensation. In other words, if it was okay "then" and it will be okay for all eternity, why is it not okay now?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt14 View Post
                              I agree that it adds something.

                              What do you think it adds?

                              I should have left out the word something. Singing and musical instruments just sound better together. I'm not much on acapella singing. Although sometimes when we sing a praise song the song director will have us sing it once acapella, and that's ok. We don't do that too often, we sing it with the instruments.

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