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  • Shame

    Paul says that "we have renounced the hidden things of shame".

    Shame is a fear-based internal state accompanied by feelings of being unworthy and unlovable.
    Shame conjures up brief, intense painful feelings of mortification due to being seen as inadequate. Shame feelings are a threat to the integrity of the self. It keeps us caught in fear of being found out by others. The perceived deficit is so humiliating that the person goes to great lengths to hide the flawed self. Guilt is the outward manifestation of the inward shame. Guilt is a feeling that we did something wrong. Guilt is usually tied to a specific behavior. Guilt says, "I did something bad. I must pay." We create guilt and shame in ourselves when we sin.

    Guilt and shame can build up with repeated incidents of humiliation and lead to internal global beliefs of "I am unworthy. I don't deserve good things. I am unlovable." Turning this global shame over to something greater than oneself (like religion) can negate those global beliefs of unworthiness.

    Religion with its list of 'how to make oneself worthy', can be a powerful tool in 'shame management'. But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?
    sigpicLife! Just Live It!
    http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

  • #2
    Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
    But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?
    No, they can't. Only by salvation and then understanding our position in Christ will rid us of the shame.

    Comment


    • #3
      And...

      Originally posted by Sold Out View Post
      No, they can't. Only by salvation and then understanding our position in Christ will rid us of the shame.
      And what is this position, may I ask?
      sigpicLife! Just Live It!
      http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
        Paul says that "we have renounced the hidden things of shame".

        Shame is a fear-based internal state accompanied by feelings of being unworthy and unlovable. Shame conjures up brief, intense painful feelings of mortification due to being seen as inadequate. Shame feelings are a threat to the integrity of the self. It keeps us caught in fear of being found out by others. The perceived deficit is so humiliating that the person goes to great lengths to hide the flawed self. Guilt is the outward manifestation of the inward shame. Guilt is a feeling that we did something wrong. Guilt is usually tied to a specific behavior. Guilt says, "I did something bad. I must pay." We create guilt and shame in ourselves when we sin.

        Guilt and shame can build up with repeated incidents of humiliation and lead to internal global beliefs of "I am unworthy. I don't deserve good things. I am unlovable." Turning this global shame over to something greater than oneself (like religion) can negate those global beliefs of unworthiness.

        Religion with its list of 'how to make oneself worthy', can be a powerful tool in 'shame management'. But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?
        Christ took both our greif and shame to the cross and it paralyzing effect has no more power over us when we understand what He did for you and me
        Amazzin

        Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

        CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
          Paul says that "we have renounced the hidden things of shame".

          Shame is a fear-based internal state accompanied by feelings of being unworthy and unlovable. Shame conjures up brief, intense painful feelings of mortification due to being seen as inadequate. Shame feelings are a threat to the integrity of the self. It keeps us caught in fear of being found out by others. The perceived deficit is so humiliating that the person goes to great lengths to hide the flawed self. Guilt is the outward manifestation of the inward shame. Guilt is a feeling that we did something wrong. Guilt is usually tied to a specific behavior. Guilt says, "I did something bad. I must pay." We create guilt and shame in ourselves when we sin.

          Guilt and shame can build up with repeated incidents of humiliation and lead to internal global beliefs of "I am unworthy. I don't deserve good things. I am unlovable." Turning this global shame over to something greater than oneself (like religion) can negate those global beliefs of unworthiness.

          Religion with its list of 'how to make oneself worthy', can be a powerful tool in 'shame management'. But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?
          Is not guilt and shame tactics of the enemy? The devil will tell us negative thoughts.

          My rightouness is through the blood of Jesus and that is it. The only thing that can remove any shame over past sisns is the Love of Jesus. Doing rituals are just that...rituals

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AlainaJ View Post
            Is not guilt and shame tactics of the enemy? The devil will tell us negative thoughts.

            My rightouness is through the blood of Jesus and that is it. The only thing that can remove any shame over past sisns is the Love of Jesus. Doing rituals are just that...rituals

            Totally off topic Alaina,....

            Man your avatar bothers me. I wouldn't want to meet your pet in real-time
            Amazzin

            Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

            CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by amazzin View Post
              Totally off topic Alaina,....

              Man your avatar bothers me. I wouldn't want to meet your pet in real-time
              Ok- what do you mean off topic?

              Not to get you off topic, the question was-
              Religion with its list of 'how to make oneself worthy', can be a powerful tool in 'shame management'. But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?

              To answer that question is to say...no. The keeping of rituals and do's or don'ts can not truly remove the feelings of shame.

              it is Jesus that can do that- I can't see how it is off topic to suggest that such feelings are a tatic of the enemy....just like fear.

              Oh- I am so sorry you don't love Kalishnakitty
              she really does love you

              Comment


              • #8
                Then...

                Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                Christ took both our greif and shame to the cross and it paralyzing effect has no more power over us when we understand what He did for you and me
                Then why do many feel guilty if they don't go to church on Sunday?
                sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
                  Then why do many feel guilty if they don't go to church on Sunday?
                  That my friend is the conviction of the Holy Spirit
                  Amazzin

                  Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                  CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
                    And what is this position, may I ask?
                    Eternally forgiven of all sin - past, present & future sins.

                    Now don't get me wrong....if I sin, I feel bad about it. I confess it, forsake it, and move on.

                    But in the eternal sense...I am forgiven eternally. I know that my sin will never be counted against me in regards to eternal life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
                      Then why do many feel guilty if they don't go to church on Sunday?
                      Isa 58:1-9

                      " Cry loudly, do not hold back;Raise your voice like a trumpet,And declare to My people their transgression And to the house of Jacob their sins. 2 "Yet they seek Me day by day and delight to know My ways,As a nation that has done righteousness And has not forsaken the ordinance of their God.They ask Me for just decisions,They delight in the nearness of God. 3'Why have we fasted and You do not see?Why have we humbled ourselves and You do not notice?'Behold, on the day of your fast you find your desire, And drive hard all your workers. 4 "Behold, you fast for contention and strife and to strike with a wicked fist.You do not fast like you do today to make your voice heard on high. 5 "Is it a fast like this which I choose, a day for a man to humble himself?Is it for bowing one's head like a reedAnd for spreading out sackcloth and ashes as a bed?Will you call this a fast, even an acceptable day to the LORD? 6 "Is this not the fast which I choose,To loosen the bonds of wickedness,To undo the bands of the yoke,And to let the oppressed go freeAnd break every yoke? 7 "Is it not to divide your bread with the hungryAnd bring the homeless poor into the house;When you see the naked, to cover him;And not to hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 "Then your light will break out like the dawn,And your recovery will speedily spring forth;And your righteousness will go before you;The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. 9 "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;You will cry, and He will say, 'Here I am.'If you remove the yoke from your midst,The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness,
                      NASU

                      Perhaps it is because our churches sometimes see the people as workers and we drive them. Some feel guilty when they go and others feel guilty when they don't.

                      I look forward to the day when people tell me they missed me at church, not because they wanted me to attend church, but because they really missed my presence.
                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AlainaJ View Post
                        Ok- what do you mean off topic?

                        Not to get you off topic, the question was-
                        Religion with its list of 'how to make oneself worthy', can be a powerful tool in 'shame management'. But can mere rituals, and 'dos and don't dos', and keeping of ordinances, truly remove the feelings of shame?

                        To answer that question is to say...no. The keeping of rituals and do's or don'ts can not truly remove the feelings of shame.

                        it is Jesus that can do that- I can't see how it is off topic to suggest that such feelings are a tatic of the enemy....just like fear.

                        Oh- I am so sorry you don't love Kalishnakitty
                        she really does love you
                        LOL,...I meant my question to you about your avatar was off topic. Glad I wasn't shot!!!
                        Amazzin

                        Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                        CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You mean...

                          Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                          That my friend is the conviction of the Holy Spirit
                          You mean not going to church is sin and hence need the conviction of the HS?
                          sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                          http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Missed

                            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                            Isa 58:1-9

                            I look forward to the day when people tell me they missed me at church, not because they wanted me to attend church, but because they really missed my presence.
                            If someone really missed me, they will find a way to pay me a visit or give me a call. They would not wait for me to go somewhere and express that they have 'missed' me. If someone say that they have missed me at church, it is quite a paradox.
                            sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                            http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
                              You mean not going to church is sin and hence need the conviction of the HS?
                              There is no sin in not going to church. But you and I are instructed not to forsake the assembling together with other believers. The Holy Spirit ensures that we feel the need to be in relationship with others to worship-pray and hear the gospel.

                              You are the church ravi, your are God's temple in with he resides. However, you need to share God's love with others and this is where the holy spirit desires all of us to be
                              Amazzin

                              Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                              CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                              Comment

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