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  • I John questions

    I have been having issues lately with the book of I John. Sorry if this has been discussed here, but I went back several pages and couldn't find anything. There are too many verses that point to people who have God living in them cannot sin. There are several thoughts on this matter, but after reading different translations of several verses, I keep coming to the same one. The problem is my conclusion is in opposition to the Bible in other places.

    I John 3:6

    NIV
    No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

    KJV
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    ASB
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

    I John 3:9

    NIV
    No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

    KJV
    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    ASB
    Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

    These are just two verses. This general theme is repeated in other places in the book.

    Now there are a few views on this. One is that this is talking about the repeated practice of sin. But looking at the context around the verses and the verses themselves in several different translations, I see no way for us to convincingly deduct that.

    Another view is that it is referring to people who blatantly sin against God and do not think it is wrong and aren’t sorry, essentially they don’t repent. While that could be the translation, it still seems quite clear in what its saying. If Christ is in you, you can’t sin because He is in you.

    This book of the Bible is concerning me. If taken at face value, it would pretty much mean no one is going to heaven. What is ths sin in this book referring to?

  • #2
    I disagree with you that the first option you mentioned is not convincing. John is not saying that Christians never sin, but that people who abide in Christ won't 'keep on' sinning. It's contrasted with those who 'practice righteousness.' Obviously practicing righteousness does not refer to a 1 time event, but to a habitual practice. Christians differ from non-Christians in that they deal with sin (through repentance) rather than continue in it. Repentance, though, does indeed 'cleanse' us so that sin will become less and less and our righteousness increases.
    The Matthew Never Knew
    The Knew Kingdom

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Semi-tortured View Post
      I John 3:6

      NIV
      No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

      KJV
      Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

      ASB
      Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

      I John 3:9

      NIV
      No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

      KJV
      Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

      ASB
      Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

      These are just two verses. This general theme is repeated in other places in the book.

      Actually the HOLY SPIRIT is in you, and HE cannot sin. This is what these verses are referring to. You have two natures - the sin nature & the new nature. Your sin nature will continue to sin until the day you die...the new nature (Holy Spirit) cannot sin.

      Comment


      • #4
        Many people believe that you HAVE to sin and you cannot help yourself. I disagree. Here's a few notes about sin that I've found. (These aren't my personal notes. I found them)

        1. Everyone sins because man "just has to sin".
        This is the reason Jesus came: "For he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21). Two times Jesus told people to "go and sin no more" (John 5:14 and John 8:11). He would not have said such if man "just had to sin".
        2. Everyone sins because the Bible says so.
        Yes, the Bible says so. In stating such, it teaches us that no one is good in his own power and resources. When Christ came, He told us in regards to committing sin; "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." (John 8:36)
        3. Everyone sins because of the power of the devil.
        Some people have said, "The devil made me do it". Jesus can give you power over the devil. "He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (I John 5:18b)
        4. Everyone sins because man is weak.
        Salvation imparts strength to man that counteracts his weaknesses "I can do all things through Christ which strengthenth me." (Phillipians 4:13).
        5. Everyone sins because of the flesh.
        Through the resources of Christ's blood and resurrection we are delivered from giving in to the flesh to the point of sin. Referring to saved people, Romans 8:1 says, "They walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Also Romans 8:9 says, "They are not in the flesh but in the Spirit".
        6. Everyone sins because of the body.
        God made the body and he called it good. Jesus had a body like ours and did not sin. Bible salvation can enable us to bring our bodies in subjection to God's will (I Corinthians 9:27).
        7. Everyone sins because of temptation.
        Saved people are tempted, but I Corinthians 10:13 tells us we won't be tempted above what we are able to bear. Temptation in itself doesn't make us sin.
        8. Everyone sins because the world is sinful.
        The world is sinful! Saved people are not of the world and by the sanctifying power of Christ are kept from the evil therein (I John 17:15-17).
        9. Everyone sins because my preacher says they do.
        We will allow your preacher his own personal belief. We must accept the testimony of the Word of God; "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." (I John 3:9).
        10. Everyone sins because I know I sin.
        II Corinthians 10:12 says, "It is not wise to compare ourselves among ourselves". We are sorry that you have not experienced the deliverance from sin that is possible in Christ. There are those who have heard the good news pertaining to such and have been delivered.

        Comment


        • #5
          John is very clear; if you read it all.

          5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
          Right off the top; we shouldn't be sinning, period. Sinning puts us in a bad place.

          8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
          ...what was that? John just said plainly, and the one of you who can say he's that righteous man who walks in the light perfectly is LYING TO THEMSELVES. You were a sinner at one time; you'll probably stumble again. It happens.

          9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
          This is the important part right here. John sets out what 'walking in the light' truly means. Not that we didn't sin, or we never sinned, but that if we truly seek forgiveness from God and help from God, God can erase that sin, God can help us to move on away from sin, God can help us walk in the light.

          Paul tells us that God will not allow any temptation to come on us except one we're strong enough to withstand. God himself personally intervenes to regulate the temptations about us! That's a wonderful promise--and a terrible condemnation of our sins.

          Guess what! Every time you've sinned in your life... God was there and made sure the temptation level was low enough that you COULD HAVE AVOIDED IT.

          Think about that.
          One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by faithfulfriend View Post
            Many people believe that you HAVE to sin and you cannot help yourself. I disagree. Here's a few notes about sin that I've found. (These aren't my personal notes. I found them)

            1. Everyone sins because man "just has to sin".
            This is the reason Jesus came: "For he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21). Two times Jesus told people to "go and sin no more" (John 5:14 and John 8:11). He would not have said such if man "just had to sin".
            2. Everyone sins because the Bible says so.
            Yes, the Bible says so. In stating such, it teaches us that no one is good in his own power and resources. When Christ came, He told us in regards to committing sin; "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." (John 8:36)
            3. Everyone sins because of the power of the devil.
            Some people have said, "The devil made me do it". Jesus can give you power over the devil. "He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (I John 5:18b)
            4. Everyone sins because man is weak.
            Salvation imparts strength to man that counteracts his weaknesses "I can do all things through Christ which strengthenth me." (Phillipians 4:13).
            5. Everyone sins because of the flesh.
            Through the resources of Christ's blood and resurrection we are delivered from giving in to the flesh to the point of sin. Referring to saved people, Romans 8:1 says, "They walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Also Romans 8:9 says, "They are not in the flesh but in the Spirit".
            6. Everyone sins because of the body.
            God made the body and he called it good. Jesus had a body like ours and did not sin. Bible salvation can enable us to bring our bodies in subjection to God's will (I Corinthians 9:27).
            7. Everyone sins because of temptation.
            Saved people are tempted, but I Corinthians 10:13 tells us we won't be tempted above what we are able to bear. Temptation in itself doesn't make us sin.
            8. Everyone sins because the world is sinful.
            The world is sinful! Saved people are not of the world and by the sanctifying power of Christ are kept from the evil therein (I John 17:15-17).
            9. Everyone sins because my preacher says they do.
            We will allow your preacher his own personal belief. We must accept the testimony of the Word of God; "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." (I John 3:9).
            10. Everyone sins because I know I sin.
            II Corinthians 10:12 says, "It is not wise to compare ourselves among ourselves". We are sorry that you have not experienced the deliverance from sin that is possible in Christ. There are those who have heard the good news pertaining to such and have been delivered.

            I agree that you don't have to sin. That's not what I'm really asking. My question is are you not saved if you sin once after turning your life to Christ? Is it truely impossible for a REAL Christian not to sin? I've read the view that you seem to be talking about before, and I don't honestly think you or anyone who professes it has ceased to sin completely after their moment of being born again.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Semi-tortured View Post
              I agree that you don't have to sin. That's not what I'm really asking. My question is are you not saved if you sin once after turning your life to Christ? Is it truely impossible for a REAL Christian not to sin? I've read the view that you seem to be talking about before, and I don't honestly think you or anyone who professes it has ceased to sin completely after their moment of being born again.
              It is not impossible for a true Christian to live righteously every day for the rest of their life....keep in mind that it IS POSSIBLE to backslide. I'm not talking about backsliding, but I'm saying that it is truly possible for a Christian to resist every temptation from the day they receive Salvation, until the day they die.

              Rom. 6:6-7 “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

              Gal. 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
              They that are Christs have crucified the flesh, we no longer walk in the flesh but after the Spirit, just as the Bible says.

              Titus 2:11-12 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.”

              Matt. 7:22-23 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
              The Bible says he will say depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Iniquity is sin. Sin separated Adam & Eve from God, and it separates man from God today as well. You must be living Holy (Righteously) every day in order to go to Heaven.

              1 Cor. 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?”
              The unrighteous shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

              Gal. 5:21 “Of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things [the works of the flesh] shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
              Many say they are in the flesh. If so, here's what the Bible says...you will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

              I have pages of more notes, but more than anyone would want to read. I'm not bragging at all, or lifting myself up above anyone else. Almighty God was merciful unto my soul and he has given me the power to resist EVERY temptation that comes my way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by faithfulfriend View Post
                It is not impossible for a true Christian to live righteously every day for the rest of their life....keep in mind that it IS POSSIBLE to backslide. I'm not talking about backsliding, but I'm saying that it is truly possible for a Christian to resist every temptation from the day they receive Salvation, until the day they die.

                Rom. 6:6-7 “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

                Gal. 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
                They that are Christs have crucified the flesh, we no longer walk in the flesh but after the Spirit, just as the Bible says.

                Titus 2:11-12 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.”

                Matt. 7:22-23 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
                The Bible says he will say depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Iniquity is sin. Sin separated Adam & Eve from God, and it separates man from God today as well. You must be living Holy (Righteously) every day in order to go to Heaven.

                1 Cor. 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?”
                The unrighteous shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

                Gal. 5:21 “Of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things [the works of the flesh] shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
                Many say they are in the flesh. If so, here's what the Bible says...you will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

                I have pages of more notes, but more than anyone would want to read. I'm not bragging at all, or lifting myself up above anyone else. Almighty God was merciful unto my soul and he has given me the power to resist EVERY temptation that comes my way.

                OK. I agree with what you're saying that I can fight every sin. I know that. But if I fail and backslide, does that mean I was never a Christian to begin with and God never entered my heart? I am not trying to say that you or anyone else can't defeat sin at every turn. Im asking if I mess up and backslide if that means I was never a Christian to begin with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Semi-tortured View Post
                  OK. I agree with what you're saying that I can fight every sin. I know that. But if I fail and backslide, does that mean I was never a Christian to begin with and God never entered my heart? I am not trying to say that you or anyone else can't defeat sin at every turn. Im asking if I mess up and backslide if that means I was never a Christian to begin with.
                  That's a good question. Give me some time this weekend, I don't have any notes on that. I'll try to get back with you soon as I can.

                  I'll study that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by faithfulfriend View Post
                    That's a good question. Give me some time this weekend, I don't have any notes on that. I'll try to get back with you soon as I can.

                    I'll study that.

                    Here's the problem with it. I feel guilty when I sin. Is that the Holy Spirit convicting me, or my fear Im in direct danger of going to hell? I fight urges off sometimes, and others I can't. Sometimes a sin is reactionary. I can imagine if I was driving along and a semi-truck lost control coming the other way, that an Oh S***! might escape my lips, in which case the last thing I ever did on the earth was a sin.

                    I want to do what's right by God. I feel like I am having better communication with Him since I stopped doing certain things, but some verses seem to be a little at opposition. I know they can't be because the Word of God is true. But to say all our sins will be forgiven, means all our sins, not some. In I John is says in the beginning of chapter 2 that we shouldn't sin, but if we do we have Jesus which makes me believe that real Christians DO sin.

                    I see some people in the church say that if you sin, don't worry. It's already forgiven. Then there is the opposite side who believe if you sin, you never were a Christian to begin with (and aren't they sinning in the very condemnation and judgment they throw down on people when they don't know the person's heart?)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Consider this;

                      your life isn't yesterday, nor is it tomorrow.

                      Your life isn't 2 seconds ago, nor is it 2 seconds from now.

                      What you did 2 seconds ago, effects what is gonna happen two seconds from now, BUT...

                      The big question that should always be... Where are you right this very second?

                      Do you abideth in sin, or do you abideth in him this very second?

                      Second after second is an unmeasurable gift not to be taken for granted.

                      Now go and live your life in him and sin no more. Trust in his forgiveness, and never stop praying and begging for it.

                      This won't offer you salvation assurance, but it will offer you life in him assurance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Semi-tortured View Post
                        Here's the problem with it. I feel guilty when I sin. Is that the Holy Spirit convicting me, or my fear Im in direct danger of going to hell? I fight urges off sometimes, and others I can't. Sometimes a sin is reactionary. I can imagine if I was driving along and a semi-truck lost control coming the other way, that an Oh S***! might escape my lips, in which case the last thing I ever did on the earth was a sin.

                        I want to do what's right by God. I feel like I am having better communication with Him since I stopped doing certain things, but some verses seem to be a little at opposition. I know they can't be because the Word of God is true. But to say all our sins will be forgiven, means all our sins, not some. In I John is says in the beginning of chapter 2 that we shouldn't sin, but if we do we have Jesus which makes me believe that real Christians DO sin.

                        I see some people in the church say that if you sin, don't worry. It's already forgiven. Then there is the opposite side who believe if you sin, you never were a Christian to begin with (and aren't they sinning in the very condemnation and judgment they throw down on people when they don't know the person's heart?)
                        You have excellent questions.

                        Is there a way to send private messages through this forum? If so I haven't figured it out yet. I'd like to talk to you more about the questions you have. If you can't send private messages on here, would you mind exchanging e-mails?

                        The reason why I ask that is because I'd like to talk about it with you outside of the public forum. Every forum I've been to ridicules, mocks, and tells me other things because I live the way I do. I want to avoid all confrontations with other people and discuss what this thread is about in private with you, if your not interested that's perfectly fine. It's up to you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by faithfulfriend View Post
                          It is not impossible for a true Christian to live righteously every day for the rest of their life....keep in mind that it IS POSSIBLE to backslide. I'm not talking about backsliding, but I'm saying that it is truly possible for a Christian to resist every temptation from the day they receive Salvation, until the day they die.
                          .
                          I have to disagree. We are sinners by birth, nature & practice and we do not lose that nature when we get saved. We sin even when we don't want to sin, and a great deal in our thoughts. I'm sure all of us can say a thought entered our mind and we're like, 'where did that thought come from?' It is our nature to sin and Paul clearly speaks about all that in his letters.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sold Out View Post
                            I have to disagree. We are sinners by birth, nature & practice and we do not lose that nature when we get saved. We sin even when we don't want to sin, and a great deal in our thoughts. I'm sure all of us can say a thought entered our mind and we're like, 'where did that thought come from?' It is our nature to sin and Paul clearly speaks about all that in his letters.
                            Sinners by birth, yes. But Salvation saves you FROM sin, it doesn't leave you in sin.

                            See Matthew 1:21. ...he shall save his people FROM their sins...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by faithfulfriend View Post
                              Sinners by birth, yes. But Salvation saves you FROM sin, it doesn't leave you in sin.

                              See Matthew 1:21. ...he shall save his people FROM their sins...

                              This is what Im talking about though. Some verses in the Bible seem to state that a true Christian can't sin. Others state what seems to be the opposite. Which is it? You would think there should be a clear cut message on this. I John really confuses me. And I agree with Sold Out. It seems too many people take sin as being a physical act. Jesus repeatedly talks about sins of the mind. Those pop into our heads with no warning at times. Sometimes without our control. I once had a dream that I had sex with someone I know very well who wasn't my wife. I had no control over that dream and to be honest, I'm not attracted to her. But it popped into my head against my will just like many other evil thoughts do. Evil is obviously in us on a subconcious level that we cannot fully control.

                              I've seen people from the "Real Christians can't possibly sin!" camp and they usually are some of the most venemous people you will come across. They yell and scream at people. I can only imagine the hate and arrogance (both sins) that lurk in their heart.

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