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Was Gen 3:15 considered Messianic before Christ came?

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  • Was Gen 3:15 considered Messianic before Christ came?

    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    I know the Jews today claim this isn't Messianic but was it taught as Messianic before Christ? Does anyone have any info on this?
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  • #2
    Originally posted by Naphal View Post
    was it taught as Messianic before Christ?
    nope

    ----------------------------

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    • #3
      Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

      Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

      Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

      I don't think they taught it as being messianic before Christ. And Jesus isn't from a human seed. God placed His seed in Mary.

      However it is the Holy Spirit through us which bruises the head of satan. Through Jesus we (the seed) are given power to bruise the head of the serpent.

      God bless!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Naphal View Post
        I know the Jews today claim this isn't Messianic but was it taught as Messianic before Christ? Does anyone have any info on this?
        Good question - and one which I hope someone will come up with something. The problem is however that - as with Messianic readings of Immanuel, Bethlehem, Branch and so on - these were phased out of later Jewish expectations precisely because of Jesus of Nazareth fulfilling them.

        There is one hint that the answer is yes within the OT. The verse the devil quotes from Psalm 91 in Matt 4 is exactly before almost the only verse in the OT, maybe the only verse, that speaks of treading on serpents. The temptation clearly reads Ps91:11-12 as Messianic, so why would 91:13 not be read as Messianic?

        11 For he will command his angels concerning you
        to guard you in all your ways.
        12 On their hands they will bear you up,
        lest you strike your foot against a stone.
        13 You will tread on the lion and the adder;
        the young lion and the serpent you will trample underfoot.


        If the temptation reads 91:13 as Messianic then it could only be Messianic because Gen3:15 was also read as Messianic.

        What I'm saying is that evidence may have been suppressed, and if there was an easy reference in the Talmud I think we'd all know about it, but but the proximity of Ps91:13 to the Ps91:11-12 temptation in itself is something of a smoking gun...
        God bless
        Steven

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Steven3 View Post
          What I'm saying is that evidence may have been suppressed,
          Yep, those eeeeeeeeevil rabbis, hiding evidence of Jesus.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Naphal View Post
            Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

            I know the Jews today claim this isn't Messianic but was it taught as Messianic before Christ? Does anyone have any info on this?
            What do you mean it isn't Messianic. The Jews always believed the Messiah would be a man descended from Adam and Eve. The Genesis 3:15 verse isn't specific to which 'seed', but the Genesis verse of Isaac is specific to who's lineage the seed (singular, as in one man, not many men) comes through.

            Are you saying the Jews never believed the Messiah would come through a certain genealogy?

            Comment


            • #7
              Fenris,

              No one is calling your rabbis evil, but i would call those that miss Yeshua blinded. You know God allowed it from time to time that people would not see until He finally allowed their ears to hear and their eyes to open.

              There were not an extremely huge number back when Yeshua walked the earth that had those ears and eyes to hear and see.

              Shalom my friend,
              Tanja
              Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
              2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
              If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
              http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Teke View Post
                What do you mean it isn't Messianic. The Jews always believed the Messiah would be a man descended from Adam and Eve. The Genesis 3:15 verse isn't specific to which 'seed', but the Genesis verse of Isaac is specific to who's lineage the seed (singular, as in one man, not many men) comes through.

                Are you saying the Jews never believed the Messiah would come through a certain genealogy?
                No, the point is that 3:15 is not referring to the messiah, according to Jews.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                  Fenris,

                  No one is calling your rabbis evil, but i would call those that miss Yeshua blinded. You know God allowed it from time to time that people would not see until He finally allowed their ears to hear and their eyes to open.
                  So it's not my fault I'm not Christian.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                    No, the point is that 3:15 is not referring to the messiah.
                    Then what is it referring to?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teke View Post
                      Then what is it referring to?
                      One of the curses on the serpent is that people will hate them and be capable of stepping on their heads. And it's true.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                        One of the curses on the serpent is that people will hate them and be capable of stepping on their heads. And it's true.
                        Well duh....
                        It's pretty obvious this is a figure of speech being used. Snakes don't suffer humiliation and utter defeat as depicted by these words. ("upon thy belly" figure of speech, see Ps. 44:25, and "dust" another figure of speech, see Ps. 72:9). Don't Jews still use the Psalms.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teke View Post
                          Well duh....
                          It's pretty obvious this is a figure of speech being used.
                          It also happens to be literally true. In any case, it's not obviously messianic, and actually only refers to the messiah if one believes that it does.

                          Don't Jews still use the Psalms.
                          Of course; and most of them ain't messianic either.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                            It also happens to be literally true. In any case, it's not obviously messianic, and actually only refers to the messiah if one believes that it does.
                            I'd agree with you it's not "obviously" messianic, but then what is obvious to us is not all there is to the matter, hence the use of scripture.


                            Of course; and most of them ain't messianic either.
                            In my faith they are holy prayers to God. But they also portray the rest of scripture.
                            Don't Jews believe revelation is possible through prayer.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teke View Post
                              Don't Jews believe revelation is possible through prayer.
                              Umm, I suppose. But revelation in the understanding of the bible cannot contradict already known interpretations of scripture.

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