The 70 weeks

[jeffweeder]

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

70 WEEKS and Jesus would bring in all this.?

Jesus did not fail to accomplish this.
He has won and is seated at Gods right hand.
This means the 70 weeks must be over .
If there is a large gap between the 69 and 70th week, then the decree should be longer than 70 weeks..

I think it is 70 weeks unbroken, so here is my 2 cents worth.

25

"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

so 69 weeks pass without a hitch and Jesus arrives in the 70th week on time.
The people at the time of John the Baptist, were in expectation of the fullfillment of the prophecy,

lk 3
So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


Now while the people were in a state of expectation and all were wondering in their hearts about John, as to whether he was the[6][I.e. the Messiah] Christ,

Must of been the prophets who made them aware, especially Dan 9

cont'

26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

After the 69 week, which makes it the 70 week ,he was killed and rome came in and desolated.

And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.


27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

The HE that makes a FIRM cov for the last week appears to be Jesus-- With the lords supper, (the firmest of covs) -----the only covenant we know of, if that was indeed the 70th week... ,and the middle of the 70 week ---(3 1/2 year ministry) saw him die and put an end to sacrifice and sin offerings.

The latter 1/2 of the week is attributed to the continueing of the work by the disciples--(to the Jew first ministry that Jesus began)

This ends their 70 weeks, with the conversion of cornelius--the first Gentile, when the mission went to all the people.

and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The Gospel must be preached to all tongues and then the end will come.
The fullness of the gentiles will come in.

John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
17 "His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

[Allegra]

I agree. This is fulfilled prophecy. The Bible says:
"Seventy Weeks are determined." This period is composed of seven weeks, during which the city of Jerusalem is restored. Then a period of 434 years (62 weeks) elapse until the baptism of Christ. The baptism of Christ is established because He is referred to as Messiah, the Prince, in other words, the Anointed One. There remained but one week. It is generally established that Christ ministered three and one half years before His crucifixion, when He was cut off. The remaining three and one half years was the period of time when the gospel was proclaimed to the Jews, ending with Peter's Divinely guided mission to the house of Cornelius who was the first Gentile to embrace salvation. (Acts chapter 10) Further, the duration of the Covenant was not limited to one week, but was ratified during that one week of prophecy. Its duration was and is endless!
This is the New and Everlasting Covenant.

[vinsight4u8]

Look at how Daniel 9 ends with two different determined sets of time.

verse 26 - determined
unto the end of the war
desolations are determined


verse 27 -determined
So who is the he in this verse?
He is found at the beginning of the chapter. It is why Gabriel came to Daniel - due to his supplications.
Why was Daniel supplicating?
Because he had read about a he in Jeremiah. A he that has 70 years to desolate Jerusalem.

See Jeremiah 25:11-13
Daniel knew that till this he (the last Babylonian king) finishes the time up for the Babylonian kings to rule the world - Israel still had time left to serve Babylon.

not a king of Persia - but they must one day serve again a king of Babylon
They have to finish serving Babylon till the Babylonian kings have ruled for seventy years.

Last time

Babylon - Cyrus
605 --------539
B.C.

The great tribulation will be the close of those Jeremiah 25:11's seventy years.

[jeffweeder]

Hi Vin

Are you saying that the 70 years under Babylon is not complete?

2 chr 36
Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles.
20 Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia,
21 to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.

EZRA 1
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying:
2 "Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, 'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and He has appointed me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.


DAN 9
In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans—
2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

zech 7:5
1 In the fourth year of King Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah on the fourth day of the ninth month, which is Chislev.
2 Now the town of Bethel had sent Sharezer and Regemmelech and their men to seek the favor of the LORD,
3 speaking to the priests who belong to the house of the LORD of hosts, and to the prophets, saying, "Shall I weep in the fifth month and abstain, as I have done these many years?"
4 Then the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying,
5 "Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, 'When you fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh months these seventy years, was it actually for Me that you fasted?

It appears that it is fullfilled.
Daniel prayed to the point of wearyness as he knew the 70 years were over,praying him to remember his people.
Gabriel was on his way to him the moment he started praying, and told him it would be 7 times as long as the captivity they just went through, before Messiah would come and do his glorious work.

I agree. This is fulfilled prophecy. The Bible says:
"Seventy Weeks are determined."

Hi Allegra
You put it across better than what i did.----

[vinsight4u8]

Stop and think about this just a bit more maybe----

Jeremiah wrote down two 70-yr prophecies as to serving Babylon.
But are they exactly alike? When one comes to pass, does that mean the other one is also fulfilled?

Jeremiah 29 - tells when it went out to those via a letter in the days of Nebuchadnezzar to the captives in Babylon.
yet- at the start of Daniel 9 - he acts as if he has just found this prophecy that he supplicated over

Jeremiah 29 is easy to understand - just go to Babylon - build their hourses, plant their gardens and wait out the 70 years there.

So about 66.5 years under the Babylonian kings and about 3.5 under Cyrus and Darius. (Persian and Median)

But what does it take to bring Jeremiah 25:11-12 to pass? How about if we add in verse 13?

Jeremiah 25:11
"And this whole land shall be a desolation...these nations shall serve the king of Babylon for seventy years."
Till that part comes to pass - the next verse is still awaiting its day.

v12
"And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, {that} I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD...and will make it perpetual desolations."

So if, and only if the seventy years of the nations serving Babylonian kings have come to pass - then can Babylon be made perpetual desolations. This can only happen when a period of Israel in captivity serving a Babylonian king comes to pass - and ends at the time of 70 years - with the Babylonian king and his land being punished.

See how Daniel was concerned over a 70 years of desolation prophecy?
A certain he is to desolate Jerusalem for 70 years and then get punished.

Last time - the 70 years point came where a Persian king was in power over Babylon and there hadn't been a Babylonian king ruling for several years. So the world
still awaits the last rule of Babylon and her Babylonia king.
that man of sin king
from Iraq

Then as shown in Jeremiah 25:12 the land of the Chaldeans will be punished.

[Cyberseeker]

My view is that the 490 years is unbroken and continuous ending October 33AD, the sacrificial system having been bought to an end by Messiahs sacrifice 3 1/2 years earlier. (April 30AD)

It make more sense than jambing a spanner into Gods prophetic clock.

[Cyberseeker]

It is generally established that Christ ministered three and one half years before His crucifixion, when He was cut off. The remaining three and one half years was the period of time when the gospel was proclaimed to the Jews, ending with Peter's Divinely guided mission to the house of Cornelius who was the first Gentile to embrace salvation.

Allegra, I agree with this. My only problem is that commentator's sometimes date Cornelius as late as 40AD. The crucification however was 30AD.

I would be very interested to see datal evidence that Cornelius conversion was 3.5 years after the cross.

[jeffweeder]

Jeremiah wrote down two 70-yr prophecies as to serving Babylon.

Their is not 2 quoted from the scriptures above.Just what concerned Judah and the captivity.
It wasnt about Nations but about Daniels people.
70 weeks were also decreed for Daniels people and the new covenant has been confirmed to them, as promised within that 70 weeks.
Now it is time to go to the nations--messiah has come according to the promise and the 70 weeks, he hath bought salvation, he set a seal of approval on the prophecies concerning himself.....but most ,sadly rejected him.Put him to death.
The believing remnant after the 70 weeks went into all the world.

What a picture of grace i see in all of this.
first he comes majesticly and so tenderly, but the crowd want Barabass, and the lord dies.
Day of pentecost comes around and i reckon those very same people that shouted Barbreadless (barabas) are cut to the heart and 3000 of them ARE saved. How gracious..
Those that dont are shipped off to the nations, and guess what, God is there again holding out the Gospel to them.......Thats just incredible grace and love and patience. God is so wonderful and how blessed we are to have a true God of this Nature. What a future.

[Wintermute]

My view is that the 490 years is unbroken and continuous ending October 33AD, the sacrificial system having been bought to an end by Messiahs sacrifice 3 1/2 years earlier. (April 30AD)

It make more sense than jambing a spanner into Gods prophetic clock.

Amen

I view the 490 as follows:

Start of the 490 years: Ezra 7 & Ezra 6:14
458-457 BC (depending on where you put the start of the reign of Artaxerxes, and thus the seventh year when the last decree goes forth)

7 weeks (49 years)
Under the direction of Ezra and then Nehemiah, Jerusalem in all its fullness (political and physical) undergoes rebuilding.

62 weeks (434 years)
Time from the completion of Jerusalem to Messiah (messiah means anointed)

Luke 3:1, In the 15th year of Tiberius Jesus is anointed by the Holy Spirit: If you put this reign as starting with Tiberius' co-ruling with Augustus, then it starts in 12 AD and the 15th year is 27AD. Christ is 30 years old at this time (Luke 3:23) see also Numbers 4:3,23 etc.

1 week (7 years)
Messiah cut off...in the middle of the week bringing an end to sacrifice and offering (curtain torn from top to bottom, Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45)
Three and a half years Jesus' ministry continues until His death, Passover 31 AD.

Even after the death of Christ at the hands of the Jewish Sanhedrin, the gospel is preached to Israel. Based on the prophecy this continues 3 1/2 years to 34 AD. Most probable end date is at the stoning of Stephen at the hands of the Sanhedrin where Stephen speaks to them as a prophet and sees Christ standing at the right hand of God, before dying.

Because of these acts against Christ and His church, desolations are determined. Israel destroyed itself, it lost the protection of God, and Deuteronomy 28 was fulfilled. Daniel 9:27 is an expansion and explanation of Messiah being cut off and the result thereof. I'm so far convinced that Messiah cut off, he shall confirm a covenant, he shall bring an end to sacrifice, the prince who is to come, and the one who makes desolate are all referring to Christ.

This prophecy also explains why Christ answered Peter in Mt 18:22 regarding forgiveness: Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." There is a double meaning, inclusive of the forgiveness of God toward the nation of Israel for 490 years.

[jeffweeder]

I would be very interested to see datal evidence that Cornelius conversion was 3.5 years after the cross.

Ive begun my search on that, though i think the gospel had to be preached to the Jew first and then the gentile...Why?
Maybe because 70 weeks were decreed for them for them to know salvation and they did, but they rejected it.
So those branches that did not believe where replaced with Gentile people.
Grace upon grace as the jews were scattered everywhere and the gospel went everywhere as well...To make them Jealous, so we could save some of them before the end comes at the end of the gospel age of Gods patience.

[ShirleyFord]

Allegra, I agree with this. My only problem is that commentator's sometimes date Cornelius as late as 40AD. The crucification however was 30AD.

I believe the 70 weeks ended with the death of Stephen and the Church of only Jews were scattered out of Jerusalem because of their persecution. And the gospel began going forth beyond the city of Jerusalem.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the LORD Jesus.

21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

[jeffweeder]

I believe the 70 weeks ended with the death of Stephen and the Church of only Jews were scattered out of Jerusalem because of their persecution. And the gospel began going forth beyond the city of Jerusalem.

Well that makes sense, looking at what Jesus said;

"These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

God bless you ShirleyFord

[Wintermute]

The new nation of Israel becomes the Christian church after AD34

Mt 21:43: "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

Matthew 8:10-12 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

John 4:19-26 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Romans 9:6-8 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Galatians 3:7-16, 26-29 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"*), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. … For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

etc.

[jeffweeder]

Thats Fantastic Wintermute, A big fat AMEN to that.( catches my breath)

[Wintermute]

Another example is in the healing and resurrection of a woman and girl. See Mark 5:21-43. A woman typically, symbolically, represents a church or Israel in the Bible, so also the number 12. There is a woman with twelve years of bleeding, Christ brings this bleeding to a stop (Consider this as an analogy of Israel's bloody sacrificial system ended) and soon after a twelve year old girl is brought to life (The new Christian church is brought to life).

Fun stuff.