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What Jesus meant by Baptism and being Born Again

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  • What Jesus meant by Baptism and being Born Again

    Why do most Christians think getting baptized by sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water is what Jesus meant when he said you must be born again? I don't remember Jesus saying that the thing with the water is how you actually are born again. I think the born again part in reference to the spirit means just believing in Jesus and God 's word. How is the water baptism to clean you of your sins any different then what some Christians get mad at Catholic Christians for when they confess sins to Priests to get rid of their sins? How else would the one thief on the cross next to Jesus go to heaven if that weren't the case? The Pharisees got made at Jesus for not washing his hands which from what I understand was the equivalent to them of washing your sins away. And how is all water not holy if God made it all?

  • #2
    Born-again

    adj : spiritually reborn or converted; [syn: converted, reborn]
    Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

    John 3:3
    In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[ 3:3 Or born from above; also in verse 7] "


    Galatians 4:29
    ……. born by the power of the Spirit…….


    Re·birth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-būrth, rbūrth)
    A second or new birth.

    John 3:5
    Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of ………the Spirit.



    Isaiah 4:4
    The Lord will wash away the filth..; he will cleanse…by a spirit [ Or the Spirit ]


    Romans 8:9
    …And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ

    Titus 3:5:
    He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

    Re·gen·er·a·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-jn-rshn)
    1. The act or process of regenerating or the state of being regenerated.
    2. Spiritual or moral revival or rebirth.

    Re·new ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-n, -ny)
    To make new or as if new again; restore: renewed


    Ezekiel 37:14
    I will put my Spirit in you and you will live,....


    Ezekiel 13:18
    And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; …..will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?


    Luke 11:13
    If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

    Romans 8:11
    And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
    Revelation 3:3
    .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

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    • #3
      Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me by posting those?

      Comment


      • #4
        I think alot of people do not know what being 'born-again' ......IS

        At best they think of some abstract principle ...or something

        The fact is ......is that being born-again means that the Eternal living God Jesus Christ just physically stepped inside your body...For Real.

        You are altered forever........never again will you be the same as you were before, even if you wanted to.
        Revelation 3:3
        .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree which is why I don't think people need to go through the sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water. It shows that its like you have to prove to people that you have been born again when all you have to do is prove to God you are and God knows when you are spiritually born again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi GJT
            Originally posted by GJT View Post
            I agree which is why I don't think people need to go through the sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water. It shows that its like you have to prove to people that you have been born again when all you have to do is prove to God you are and God knows when you are spiritually born again.
            Maybe God wants those born again to prove it to people (including themselves). Why else does Paul remind Timothy of the time he made a good confession "in front of many witnesses"? Why else does Christ demand that we "acknowledge" him "before men"? Why else does Jesus demand "water and spirit"?
            God bless
            Steven

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GJT View Post
              I agree which is why I don't think people need to go through the sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water. It shows that its like you have to prove to people that you have been born again when all you have to do is prove to God you are and God knows when you are spiritually born again.
              Greetings GJT,

              Had you ever considered looking at water baptism as a "sign" of coming into the covenant body? In the same way circumcision in the Old was a "sign" of covenant membership, so too baptism is a "sign" pointing to that baptism of Christ which saves us. Every male eight days old (some reprobates like Esau, and Ishmael) received the "sign" under the old covenant, now every professing believer and their children receive the "sign" of covenant inclusion.

              Water baptism was never intended to be an outward sign of an inward conversion, but rather an outward "sign" showing we take seriously God's covenant body (church), and His command to be baptized. Just as the OT Jews had the promises of God through His Word, so too the church has been given the promises through His Word, and all who come into covenant through the church come under the hearing of His Word, that is unto life to all who believe.

              If you understand water baptism is a "sign" pointing to the real baptism that saves, and you take seriously the Lord's command to be baptized, then you can better understand why we follow the Lord's example in baptism.

              Many Blessings,
              RW

              Comment


              • #8
                Baptism

                Hey GJT, My understanding is as yours - When we accept Jesus as Lord, repent of our sins and believe in Him we are saved, i.e. we receive the gift of salvation and we are 'born again' at this point. Getting baptised does not save a person (i.e.salvation) although I have heard some christians say that. I believe in 'believers baptism', i.e. we believe in the Lord Jesus and we then get baptised because this is a command of Jesus (Mathew 28:18-20). We are making a public commitment to Jesus, obeying Him, and declaring that when we come up from the water (or after the water is sprinkled or whatever) we have left our 'old' life behind - we are identifying with the death and resurrection of Jesus.

                There is nothing magical about the water, the transformation should have taken place already if we are a true believer.

                There are views that being baptised 'saves us from the world system of things' as opposed to salvation, witnessed by these 'confusing' verses.

                'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.' Mark 16:16


                'He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.' Acts 16:30-31

                Sorry, but I am writing this off the top of my head (havent got my Bible with me) and it is late here (04.00 hrs). I hope this helps. I'm sure others will give more scripture verses on this subject.

                Love in Jesus, ajtony

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steven3 View Post
                  Hi GJTMaybe God wants those born again to prove it to people (including themselves). Why else does Paul remind Timothy of the time he made a good confession "in front of many witnesses"? Why else does Christ demand that we "acknowledge" him "before men"? Why else does Jesus demand "water and spirit"?
                  God bless
                  Steven
                  But God doesn't say prove it to people so how do we know thats what he wants and how is that then not adding to his word? They need to prove it to themselves by following and accepting God. Paul and Timothy aren't God or Jesus. Where does he say do the water thing though to acknowledge him before man? Can't you acknowledge him before man in another way? How does he say we are supposed to acknowledge him? Jesus says water and spirit science says our bodies are made up of 90% water and the 10% of something they think might be our spirit or soul, but won't actually say. I wonder where science got that idea from?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GJT View Post
                    I agree which is why I don't think people need to go through the sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water. It shows that its like you have to prove to people that you have been born again when all you have to do is prove to God you are and God knows when you are spiritually born again.
                    So you're ignoring Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38; and a whole host of other Scriptures exhorting water baptism?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GJT View Post
                      But God doesn't say prove it to people so how do we know thats what he wants and how is that then not adding to his word?
                      Well Paul says it in Romans 6 and Colossians 2, so that's the same thing as God saying it as far as I'm concerned.

                      They need to prove it to themselves by following and accepting God. Paul and Timothy aren't God or Jesus. Where does he say do the water thing though to acknowledge him before man? Can't you acknowledge him before man in another way? How does he say we are supposed to acknowledge him? Jesus says water and spirit science says our bodies are made up of 90% water and the 10% of something they think might be our spirit or soul, but won't actually say. I wonder where science got that idea from?
                      Sorry but we don't have any common ground to discuss this if only the red-letters in the Bible are the word of God. Have a nice day
                      Steven

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                        Greetings GJT,

                        Had you ever considered looking at water baptism as a "sign" of coming into the covenant body? In the same way circumcision in the Old was a "sign" of covenant membership, so too baptism is a "sign" pointing to that baptism of Christ which saves us. Every male eight days old (some reprobates like Esau, and Ishmael) received the "sign" under the old covenant, now every professing believer and their children receive the "sign" of covenant inclusion.

                        Water baptism was never intended to be an outward sign of an inward conversion, but rather an outward "sign" showing we take seriously God's covenant body (church), and His command to be baptized. Just as the OT Jews had the promises of God through His Word, so too the church has been given the promises through His Word, and all who come into covenant through the church come under the hearing of His Word, that is unto life to all who believe.

                        If you understand water baptism is a "sign" pointing to the real baptism that saves, and you take seriously the Lord's command to be baptized, then you can better understand why we follow the Lord's example in baptism.

                        Many Blessings,
                        RW

                        Every time people describe different sects of Christianity as a covenant body or coven I think of witches coven, but not meaning i think of Christians as witches though. I heard pagans where doing this way of baptism before Christians and Jesus always spoke against them. You can look at a lot of things as a sign if you're looking at doing something like that as a sign. I could jump off the roof of a car and say its a sign, but is it really a sign if I don't feel it in spirit and act in front of people like I do? I don't mean act like boasting, but people can see it in my actions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GJT View Post
                          I heard pagans where doing this way of baptism before Christians and Jesus always spoke against them.
                          Not pagans, Jews. In the OT they had baptos, washing. Jesus and John were the first to coin baptisma, washing-ism. The verb baptizw (to conduct baptos or baptisma) exists in the OT, but baptisma doesn't.

                          Baptisma, like many isms, requires both physical and spiritual components - see Titus 3:5 to underscore John 3:5.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Steven3 View Post
                            Not pagans, Jews. In the OT they had baptos, washing. Jesus and John were the first to coin baptisma, washing-ism. The verb baptizw (to conduct baptos or baptisma) exists in the OT, but baptisma doesn't.

                            Baptisma, like many isms, requires both physical and spiritual components - see Titus 3:5 to underscore John 3:5.
                            And excellent point.

                            If baptism is pointless, unnecessary and of no meaning, why are we called to do it?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
                              So you're ignoring Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38; and a whole host of other Scriptures exhorting water baptism?
                              Where in Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 does it say that baptizing by sprinkling, pouring, or immersion of water is what constitutes as actually being baptized?

                              Comment

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