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  • Replacement Theology

    I am just curious why people who say that the Church replaced Israel are offended by the term "replacement theology".

  • #2
    Originally posted by cwb View Post
    I am just curious why people who say that the Church replaced Israel are offended by the term "replacement theology".
    Because it was a term invented to do just that.
    Robin

    Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
    And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
    Those who compromise with Christ’s enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

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    • #3
      Originally posted by cwb View Post
      I am just curious why people who say that the Church replaced Israel are offended by the term "replacement theology".
      Speaking for myself – I would have to read your definition of this non-biblical term before I could say if I am offended on not offended. Do you have any problem with the biblical concept of replacement where the “kingdom of God” was taken away from the nation of Israel and given to a “nation bringing forth…fruit”? Does this constitute a “replacement” in your theology?

      What is your definition of ‘replacement theology’?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by cwb View Post
        I am just curious why people who say that the Church replaced Israel are offended by the term "replacement theology".
        It's a label given to people who don't believe that the 'church' has replaced 'Israel'

        There are multiple definitions of Israel in the NT
        1. General Israel
        2. Believing Jews (true Israel)
        3. Unbelieving Jews

        We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'general Israel'
        We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'believing Jews'
        We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'unbelieving Jews'

        So why call it 'replacement' theology

        We believe that #3's were broken off of Israel
        We believe that #2, it turn, became 'true Israel'
        We believe that believing gentiles were added to #2
        We believe that the COLLECTIVE #2 is the church

        So if the church is made up of believing Jews & gentiles, why would 'replacement' theology be a good term? Did the believing Jews replace themselves? Only in one sense was anyone 'replaced.' Unbelieving Jews were, in a sense, replaced by believing Gentiles. But that's not the church replacing Israel since believing gentiles don't monopolize the term 'church' and unbelieving Jews don't monopolize the term 'Israel.' Plus, 'replacement' is a bad term b/c unbelieving Jews are welcome back into 'true Israel' at any time!

        Find someone on this board that believe the church is just gentiles and Israel is all Jews and I'll agree that we have a replacement theologian present. While such people, I'm sure, exist, I've frankly never met any of them.
        The Matthew Never Knew
        The Knew Kingdom

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        • #5
          Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
          So you do think it is mere coincidence that a state of Israel is living on at least part of the land God promised ancient Israel?
          Coincidence is something random

          The presence of a state of Israel is hardly a 'random' reality

          ~ Their past history with God gave them a great sense of purpose, aiding their survival
          ~ Their past history with God gave them moral standards, aiding their survival
          ~ The guilt of nations over anti-semitism caused political sympathy
          ~ A well orchestrated Zionist Movement by Theodor Herzl worked for their statehood
          ~ A week political structure in 20th century Palestine aided their quest for Statehood
          ~ Superior military technology and political alliances aided their statehood
          ~ Financial support from dispensationalists has played a role in continued statehood and political strength

          There are many possible explanations for how Israel became a State with or without Biblical prophecy.
          The Matthew Never Knew
          The Knew Kingdom

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          • #6
            Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
            Speaking for myself – I would have to read your definition of this non-biblical term before I could say if I am offended on not offended. Do you have any problem with the biblical concept of replacement where the “kingdom of God” was taken away from the nation of Israel and given to a “nation bringing forth…fruit”? Does this constitute a “replacement” in your theology?

            What is your definition of ‘replacement theology’?
            My definition is exactly what I said in my question. Replacement theology means saying that the church replaced Israel.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
              It's a label given to people who don't believe that the 'church' has replaced 'Israel'

              There are multiple definitions of Israel in the NT
              1. General Israel
              2. Believing Jews (true Israel)
              3. Unbelieving Jews

              We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'general Israel'
              We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'believing Jews'
              We don't believe the 'church' replaced 'unbelieving Jews'

              So why call it 'replacement' theology

              We believe that #3's were broken off of Israel
              We believe that #2, it turn, became 'true Israel'
              We believe that believing gentiles were added to #2
              We believe that the COLLECTIVE #2 is the church

              So if the church is made up of believing Jews & gentiles, why would 'replacement' theology be a good term? Did the believing Jews replace themselves? Only in one sense was anyone 'replaced.' Unbelieving Jews were, in a sense, replaced by believing Gentiles. But that's not the church replacing Israel since believing gentiles don't monopolize the term 'church' and unbelieving Jews don't monopolize the term 'Israel.' Plus, 'replacement' is a bad term b/c unbelieving Jews are welcome back into 'true Israel' at any time!

              Find someone on this board that believe the church is just gentiles and Israel is all Jews and I'll agree that we have a replacement theologian present. While such people, I'm sure, exist, I've frankly never met any of them.
              Your post is very confusing. It still sounds to me that you are saying that the church replaced Israel except you have changed the definition of Israel.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by cwb View Post
                Your post is very confusing. It still sounds to me that you are saying that the church replaced Israel except you have changed the definition of Israel.
                It's not a confusing post at all. Take it line by line and you'll see my view clearly. You might disagree with it, but I can't really believe it's confusing.

                I didn't change the definition of Israel, Jesus & Paul taught that there were different definitions of Israel.

                God always has His people.
                In the Old Covenant that was VISIBLY national Israel and INVISIBLY the remnant (true Israel)
                In the New Covenant that is VISIBLY the institutional church and INVISIBLY the remnant plus believing gentiles (collectively true Israel)

                The institutional church certainly didn't replace national Israel in any real sense since neither of those were really synonymous with God's people anyways. And the true church didn't replace the remnant b/c the remnant is PART OF the true church.
                The Matthew Never Knew
                The Knew Kingdom

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
                  Coincidence is something random

                  The presence of a state of Israel is hardly a 'random' reality

                  ~ Their past history with God gave them a great sense of purpose, aiding their survival
                  ~ Their past history with God gave them moral standards, aiding their survival
                  ~ The guilt of nations over anti-semitism caused political sympathy
                  ~ A well orchestrated Zionist Movement by Theodor Herzl worked for their statehood
                  ~ A week political structure in 20th century Palestine aided their quest for Statehood
                  ~ Superior military technology and political alliances aided their statehood
                  ~ Financial support from dispensationalists has played a role in continued statehood and political strength

                  There are many possible explanations for how Israel became a State with or without Biblical prophecy.
                  True, yet could the explanations you give also not have been mere coincidence?
                  I think this post was supposed to have stayed in the 1948 thread?
                  I have a Blog. Please visit!

                  My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                  Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
                    True, yet could the explanations you give also not have been mere coincidence?
                    Not coincidence; prophecy in action!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
                      True, yet could the explanations you give also not have been mere coincidence?
                      Explanations and coincidences are like opposites
                      The Matthew Never Knew
                      The Knew Kingdom

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cwb View Post
                        My definition is exactly what I said in my question. Replacement theology means saying that the church replaced Israel.
                        Does the Bible teach that the "Kingdom of God" was taken from national Israel when that nation rejected their Messiah? Does the Bible teach that the Kingdom was then given to a new nation, spiritual Israel? Does the Bible teach that from God’s perspective the “Jew” is not one who is so physically, but the Jew is one who is so inwardly (spiritually) (Romans 2:28-29)?

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                        • #13
                          Israel has certainly not been replaced, but rather the Gentiles are added into it.

                          Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,
                          Joh 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
                          Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

                          This IMO also refutes all debates about what Laws or not apply.

                          Exo 12:49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."

                          But i digress... Shalom my friends,
                          Tanja
                          Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                          2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                          If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                          http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



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